2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably)

[MrFortune3]

Nobody ever said, thought, or gave the impression that Wendell would be. The Bulls didn't have the assets to trade to move up for either Young or Doncic. You can blame management for a lot of things but blaming them for not drafting players who weren't on the board when they picked is unnecessary.

The problem was picking #7 in the first place. First year of a rebuild we should have been picking top 4.

It could have been worse- we could have traded up and taken Bamba.

Bamba was a very solid prospect. But you cannot take him and then sit him behind Isaac, Gordon, Vucevic and expect him to develop.

[Andi Obst]

You must remember Embiid's draft year wrong then.

I don't, I just think that Wiseman is wildly overrated by the mainstream media.

Embiid wasn't a perfect prospect, mainly due to health concerns, but his mobility for his size, his footwork and some of the moves around the basket he flashed regularly are just something you will not see from Wiseman. And Embiid was still pretty new to basketball at that point. He was a superior prospect at draft time with way more upside IMO.

[PaKii94]

Say what now? Wiseman is a better prospect than Embiid coming out.

I will completely disagree on that. Wiseman isn't close to Embiid for me. If he was, he would be going first in this draft with no questions asked.

You must remember Embiid's draft year wrong then. He had question marks all around him.
Had a questionable offensive game(his best season was 13 ppg in his senior year of HS), the defense was seen as something that would translate but they weren't sure he could be a DPOY candidate or just solid.
Injury concerns, maturity concerns and etc.

If Wiseman played a full season, he's probably going #1. That's not a slight at Edwards either.
The question about Wiseman is the small sample size and can his offensive game translate to the current structure of the NBA.

Embiid's biggest flaw was health. He was already showing offensive potential. He looked like baby Hakeem even though he didn't start playing till high school. Wiseman right now has only shown rim running ability.

Look at the difference in the scouting report and player comparisons:

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/james-wiseman/

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/joel-embiid/

[MrFortune3]

You must remember Embiid's draft year wrong then.

I don't, I just think that Wiseman is wildly overrated by the mainstream media.

Embiid wasn't a perfect prospect, mainly due to health concerns, but his mobility for his size, his footwork and some of the moves around the basket he flashed regularly are just something you will not see from Wiseman. And Embiid was still pretty new to basketball at that point. He was a superior prospect at draft time with way more upside IMO.

Oh I remember all the talk about him at the time. It was all about defense and upside because he was so new to playing basketball.

I will completely disagree on that. Wiseman isn't close to Embiid for me. If he was, he would be going first in this draft with no questions asked.

You must remember Embiid's draft year wrong then. He had question marks all around him.
Had a questionable offensive game(his best season was 13 ppg in his senior year of HS), the defense was seen as something that would translate but they weren't sure he could be a DPOY candidate or just solid.
Injury concerns, maturity concerns and etc.

If Wiseman played a full season, he's probably going #1. That's not a slight at Edwards either.
The question about Wiseman is the small sample size and can his offensive game translate to the current structure of the NBA.

Embiid's biggest flaw was health. He was already showing offensive potential. He looked like baby Hakeem even though he didn't start playing till high school. Wiseman right now has only shown rim running ability.

Look at the difference in the scouting report and player comparisons:

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/james-wiseman/

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/joel-embiid/

Overall: Wiseman has been a highly discussed prospect dating back to 2017 when he emerged on the high school scene … He is a prospect with some clearly defined strengths that hold value in the current NBA (rim running, defense, rebounding) and some truly special physical attributes … He also has some things he needs to work on (strength, offensive polish, overall basketball IQ) … There is also the fact that he has such limited college hoops film that it makes evaluating his progression as a prospect during the conference slate and NCAA tournament impossible, and those are critical samples when scouting

Wiseman had 3 games to be evaluated. Wiseman has been one of the top prospects in the country since 2017, He was the top prospect in HS and projected as the #1 pick a year ago.
As a prospect, they are not close. Wiseman is superior. Embiid was tantalizing because of his potential due to being so early into his basketball career. If Wiseman had play 20 games such as Embiid did, this wouldn't even be a debate.

Embiid's write up even questions how far he could come and says it depends on his development over the next 3-4 years.

[Andi Obst]

Oh I remember all the talk about him at the time. It was all about defense and upside because he was so new to playing basketball.

That's not true. A lot of people talked about how great his footwork and his moves around the basket were already. Hakeem was actually mentioned a lot.

If Wiseman had play 20 games such as Embiid did, this wouldn't even be a debate.

The pre-college tape of Wiseman suggests that there is a pretty strong chance playing more games against better competition would have hurt his stock more than it would have helped. It's impossible to tell, but more games = better draft stock for Wiseman is certainly debatable.

[TheSuzerain]

Aside from health, Embiid was clearly a better prospect than Wiseman.

Embiid was Oden caliber by the time conference play rolled around.

[PaKii94]

You must remember Embiid's draft year wrong then.

I don't, I just think that Wiseman is wildly overrated by the mainstream media.

Embiid wasn't a perfect prospect, mainly due to health concerns, but his mobility for his size, his footwork and some of the moves around the basket he flashed regularly are just something you will not see from Wiseman. And Embiid was still pretty new to basketball at that point. He was a superior prospect at draft time with way more upside IMO.

Oh I remember all the talk about him at the time. It was all about defense and upside because he was so new to playing basketball.

You must remember Embiid's draft year wrong then. He had question marks all around him.
Had a questionable offensive game(his best season was 13 ppg in his senior year of HS), the defense was seen as something that would translate but they weren't sure he could be a DPOY candidate or just solid.
Injury concerns, maturity concerns and etc.

If Wiseman played a full season, he's probably going #1. That's not a slight at Edwards either.
The question about Wiseman is the small sample size and can his offensive game translate to the current structure of the NBA.

Embiid's biggest flaw was health. He was already showing offensive potential. He looked like baby Hakeem even though he didn't start playing till high school. Wiseman right now has only shown rim running ability.

Look at the difference in the scouting report and player comparisons:

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/james-wiseman/

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/joel-embiid/

Overall: Wiseman has been a highly discussed prospect dating back to 2017 when he emerged on the high school scene … He is a prospect with some clearly defined strengths that hold value in the current NBA (rim running, defense, rebounding) and some truly special physical attributes … He also has some things he needs to work on (strength, offensive polish, overall basketball IQ) … There is also the fact that he has such limited college hoops film that it makes evaluating his progression as a prospect during the conference slate and NCAA tournament impossible, and those are critical samples when scouting

Wiseman had 3 games to be evaluated. Wiseman has been one of the top prospects in the country since 2017, He was the top prospect in HS and projected as the #1 pick a year ago.
As a prospect, they are not close. Wiseman is superior. Embiid was tantalizing because of his potential due to being so early into his basketball career. If Wiseman had play 20 games such as Embiid did, this wouldn't even be a debate.

Embiid's write up even questions how far he could come and says it depends on his development over the next 3-4 years.

Antonio Blakeney was a #1 HS prospect too. Look how that turned out. Also you quoted back to me support for my point. This are his positives "defined strengths that hold value in the current NBA (rim running, defense, rebounding) and some truly special physical attributes"

Even if defense is a wash, embiid was clearly the better offensive prospect

[Jcool0]

Antonio Blakeney was a #1 HS prospect too. Look how that turned out. Also you quoted back to me support for my point. This are his positives "defined strengths that hold value in the current NBA (rim running, defense, rebounding) and some truly special physical attributes"

Even if defense is a wash, embiid was clearly the better offensive prospect

Blakeney was not a #1 HS prospect. He wasn't even a top 10 prospect.

[Chi town]

Highest Ceilings Players with most important NBA skills (playmaking and creating for others).
- Melo
- Hayes
- Edwards

Think those 3 go top 3.

If they are gone I think Bulls go Deni, Okoro, Vassell in that order.

If Bulls go Deni then I trade Lauri as I think he will be a full time PF soon. Don’t think him, Lauri and WCJ could share the court. To much size and not enough speed.

[Jcool0]

Highest Ceilings Players with most important NBA skills (playmaking and creating for others).
- Melo
- Hayes
- Edwards

Think those 3 go top 3.

If they are gone I think Bulls go Deni, Okoro, Vassell in that order.

If Bulls go Deni then I trade Lauri as I think he will be a full time PF soon. Don’t think him, Lauri and WCJ could share the court. To much size and not enough speed.

Better odds Hayes drops out of the top 10 then goes top 3.

[PaKii94]

Antonio Blakeney was a #1 HS prospect too. Look how that turned out. Also you quoted back to me support for my point. This are his positives "defined strengths that hold value in the current NBA (rim running, defense, rebounding) and some truly special physical attributes"

Even if defense is a wash, embiid was clearly the better offensive prospect

Blakeney was not a #1 HS prospect. He wasn't even a top 10 prospect.

Yeah my bad. I was misremembering 5 star prospect. Looking into it he was ranked around 10-15 and as #3 SG. (Funny enough all above Lavine)

[Chi town]

Highest Ceilings Players with most important NBA skills (playmaking and creating for others).
- Melo
- Hayes
- Edwards

Think those 3 go top 3.

If they are gone I think Bulls go Deni, Okoro, Vassell in that order.

If Bulls go Deni then I trade Lauri as I think he will be a full time PF soon. Don’t think him, Lauri and WCJ could share the court. To much size and not enough speed.

Better odds Hayes drops out of the top 10 then goes top 3.

Why? Injured?

[Leslie Forman]

Here's a post from April that I posted that was shot-down/ignored. Now I am seeing his name is back in the discussion.
He's got a unique skill set, size and just didn't get much coverage in the USA.
Thinking about how the Rui Hachimora pick at #9 was scoffed at when he selected and how Rui looks to be a pretty good pick at 9.
Of course there were some decent names after him, but few thought Hirro would be as good as he's been. Anyways, I see Bolmaro having a career as rotation player on good teams, and a possible starter on a bad team. Not saying he's great but gotta look under every rock in the draft since it's very important when you have little-to-no-chance of signing any name F/As, so gotta get it right.

I'm not sure what those guys have to do with this guy. Hachimura is an athlete. Herro is a shooter. This guy is neither. He looks like he can barely jump over a phonebook and apparently he isn't any good at shooting either. He looks a lot more like Nick Calathes than either of those guys.

Picking a guy like this as a draft-and-stash late pick? Sure. Your first high draft pick in your new job? Might as well start looking now for another new job.

[Leslie Forman]

You must remember Embiid's draft year wrong then.

I don't, I just think that Wiseman is wildly overrated by the mainstream media.

Embiid wasn't a perfect prospect, mainly due to health concerns, but his mobility for his size, his footwork and some of the moves around the basket he flashed regularly are just something you will not see from Wiseman. And Embiid was still pretty new to basketball at that point. He was a superior prospect at draft time with way more upside IMO.

Oh I remember all the talk about him at the time. It was all about defense and upside because he was so new to playing basketball.

If by "upside," you mean people thought he was a legit Olajuwon/Duncan-level talent, yeah.

Draft nerds talked about Embiid's talent in a way they clearly don't with Wiseman.

NBA scouts were talking about him as a clear #1 if not for the injuries.

Wiseman is really not considered anywhere even remotely near Embiid-level as a talent. You might personally, but you are all alone there. He would be the absolute undisputed #1 if he was really seen as that kind of talent, especially in this awful draft.

Personally, I don't think he's likely to be anything special because if there is one thing the NBA is really good at doing, it's drafting American raised, college experienced, future superstar centers #1. These dudes do not get talked about as possibly going behind some Israeli averaging 4 PPG in Euroleague. They go #1, no question, no debate. I haven't really been deep into this draft since it looks like it sucks balls, but that is one thing that is pretty much a rule.

Of course, he can still go #1. Every extra little bit of research I do on this draft seems to only make it look worse. Sure, why not draft a guy that gets talked about like some Clint Capela/Hassan Whiteside hybrid. This might be a 2000-level draft so who cares, really.

[samwana]

Highest Ceilings Players with most important NBA skills (playmaking and creating for others).
- Melo
- Hayes
- Edwards

Think those 3 go top 3.

If they are gone I think Bulls go Deni, Okoro, Vassell in that order.

If Bulls go Deni then I trade Lauri as I think he will be a full time PF soon. Don’t think him, Lauri and WCJ could share the court. To much size and not enough speed.

Better odds Hayes drops out of the top 10 then goes top 3.

And I hope we stay far away from him!

[Andi Obst]

I think Hayes would be the most obvious fit for this team. The fact that he is being ranked all over the lottery gives me hope that we can get him, but I would not be surprised to see him go top 3 at all.

It's interesting how much people disagree on basically all projected lottery picks this year, probably due to the lack of top-end talent in this class. Kind of sucks that this is year I had the time to really take a close look at every first round prospect, but it also makes things very interesting. I think we could see a lot of surprises in the draft.

[othawhitemeat]

I do like several players that may be available in the 2nd for us. One additional player that caught my eye for late in 2nd/Undrafted is Nate Darling. Shot 40% on near 9 attempts, handles the ball a little, etc... Not very fast, but pretty crafty. Kind of looks like Marco Bellinelli.

[CoreyVillains]

One of the differences with Wismeman’s hype vs Embiid’s hype is that Joel came out before the Warriors full on changed how the game is viewed. Then you have Harden, Trae, and Luka continuing the trend. If Embiid came out this year I think he’s getting a lot of the same questions about the value of centers and high draft picks.

[Andi Obst]

One of the differences with Wismeman’s hype vs Embiid’s hype is that Joel came out before the Warriors full on changed how the game is viewed. Then you have Harden, Trae, and Luka continuing the trend. If Embiid came out this year I think he’s getting a lot of the same questions about the value of centers and high draft picks.

I just can't agree with that. Wiseman just isn't nearly as skilled as Embiid, that's the difference. Putting Embiid in this draft class wouldn't change that.

[MikeDC]

I think Hayes would be the most obvious fit for this team. The fact that he is being ranked all over the lottery gives me hope that we can get him, but I would not be surprised to see him go top 3 at all.

It's interesting how much people disagree on basically all projected lottery picks this year, probably due to the lack of top-end talent in this class. Kind of sucks that this is year I had the time to really take a close look at every first round prospect, but it also makes things very interesting. I think we could see a lot of surprises in the draft.

People who are down on Hayes should go back and read pre-draft scouting profiles of James Harden.

I'm pretty convinced that the "below average athleticism" and "he's too left handed" arguments against him are weak. He's certainly seems athletic enough to play in the league, and most guys are too right-handed and can't do anything with their left hands. I mean, they are weaknesses, but he's shown that he's a very effective player at a young age and against better than NCAA competition.

And the upside of a guy who can score and pass and run a pick and roll like that is so huge. People don't realize how much it opens up for other players who aren't so dynamic.