2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes

[lilfishi22]

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?s=09

Baynsies been out for like 4 months and he's already injured?

Honestly, at this point, I'd rather KOJ just sit it out. If he plays, I want him off the bench, why mess with a good thing?

[Skin]

Or if Oubre is not in it, would something around Bridges work? Do Suns fans value Bridges over Oubre?

Most Suns fans value Bridges as untouchable, and he's definitely more valuable to us than Oubre, if not for his defensive role playing presence alongside Book, then for his rookie deal for another 2 years (in line with Ayton).

I might be in the minority, and I don't think it works timeline wise (with the draft being before the PO deadline for Fournier) but if Fournier picks up his PO, I'd trade Oubre for him and your pick (or 2021 lightly protected / pick swap, so we can chase a PG). I'd include Okobo for salary matching.

Rubio, Payne, Carter
Booker, Fournier, Jerome
Bridges, Fournier, #10
Johnson, Saric, Kaminsky
Ayton, Baynes, Kaminsky

I think Evan could play on the wing alongside either Book or Bridges in a three man rotation.

For orlando:

Fultz, MCW
Ross, Okobo
Oubre, Ennis
Gordon, Aminu
Vujevic, Bamba

Magic get younger without getting worse. Oubre and maybe even Okobo are good young pieces with their best years ahead of them.

I like Fournier and consider that, especially if we draft a PG, big or sell our pick.

Would Fournier be a preference over Gordon? Seems like more than one voice here has mentioned him.

[bwgood77]

Most Suns fans value Bridges as untouchable, and he's definitely more valuable to us than Oubre, if not for his defensive role playing presence alongside Book, then for his rookie deal for another 2 years (in line with Ayton).

I might be in the minority, and I don't think it works timeline wise (with the draft being before the PO deadline for Fournier) but if Fournier picks up his PO, I'd trade Oubre for him and your pick (or 2021 lightly protected / pick swap, so we can chase a PG). I'd include Okobo for salary matching.

Rubio, Payne, Carter
Booker, Fournier, Jerome
Bridges, Fournier, #10
Johnson, Saric, Kaminsky
Ayton, Baynes, Kaminsky

I think Evan could play on the wing alongside either Book or Bridges in a three man rotation.

For orlando:

Fultz, MCW
Ross, Okobo
Oubre, Ennis
Gordon, Aminu
Vujevic, Bamba

Magic get younger without getting worse. Oubre and maybe even Okobo are good young pieces with their best years ahead of them.

I like Fournier and consider that, especially if we draft a PG, big or sell our pick.

Would Fournier be a preference over Gordon? Seems like more than one voice here has mentioned him.

Not sure of contract situation, but for me, even if it was the same, probably not over Gordon, but fine with it, and something needed...a nice piece, especially if we keep Saric and/or draft a PF.

[nevetsov]

Would Fournier be a preference over Gordon? Seems like more than one voice here has mentioned him.

Not sure of contract situation, but for me, even if it was the same, probably not over Gordon, but fine with it, and something needed...a nice piece, especially if we keep Saric and/or draft a PF.

Fournier has a PO of about $17m which you would assume in this climate he will pick up. So it's basically a wash with Oubre.

I'd like the 2021 pick swap to balance out the age difference as value, and to protect us having a mid first in case we overachieve.

The interest in Fournier over Gordon to me is predicated purely on the play of Johnson at PF and Saric off the bench. If the quality of production continues our major weakness shifts from PF to backup wing, in which case Fournier becomes a better fit.

[Frank Lee]

We just handled the all-in Ballmer Clippers a tough loss with Rubio and a bunch of 23-24 year olds and so many of you are on about trades and shaking up our roster?

Watch the cap, develop our guys and win 40+ games next year.

These are the most hopeful days of being a Suns fan in 10+ years. I know it feels strange, but try not to overthink it.

No to ALL these Orlando trades.

Yup
Bird in the hand this year.

All we need to do is retain Saric and Baynes.... may be Carter .... draft The BPA
Then sign a FA back up to a reasonable deal.

Continuity is our strength.

[Ghost of Kleine]

[

Spoiler:

of l could he receive ... well imagine the salary of players who have similar per game stats (>17pts and >5rbds). This might give you an idea ... http://bkref.com/tiny/Dj5Yl[/quote]

Thanks Big!

So since Oubre is currently sitting at around 15 million, Randle at around 18 million, And both Hayward and Wiggins are at around 27 million, Then should the medium be around 22-24 million most likely? But of course could be driven up a bit by a market saturated with teams that would be able to bid somewhat generously?[/quote]

That is ridiculous, especially with the Covid stuff. Just because Randle and Wiggins are overpaid doesn't necessarily mean that is Oubre's market. Hayward deserved it when he signed, and at that time, he was in a different league than any of those guys.[/quote]

Sorry man! Obviously this is not an exact science by any means. It's highly mutable and highly situational. So I'm trying to offer a best guesstimate as to potential market value bids in a market that will likely see quite a few teams with large allotments of pooled cap space, regardless of the current Covid circumstances. I mean IF you peruse through the various teams cap tables,
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/ORL.html

And see how they have strategized to have their contracts set to come off the books around 2021, You'll find that there's of course a large number of teams that are specifically planning to accumulate large portions of cap space for that very highly anticipated 2021 free agency. And whilst Oubre may not be at the very top of every teams list, It's important to remember that he'll certainly be up there for a number of teams unable to secure a top tier big name free agent. Lastly, it only takes one team to commit a large scale bid for Oubre to affect any plans we might have to resign him at a reasonable rate. Regardless of what his current market value may dictate. The 2015-2016 free agency debacle was a good example of this, Wherein you had players get well over their actual contractual worth.

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/seven-worst-nba-free-agent-signings-last-10-years#slide-2
All in all, We all should realize that there WILL BE teams in mid - small markets that will miss out on their primary big name options for whatever reason, And then will absolutely look to sign a player like Oubre from the next lower tier, To sell their fans on. I mean just look at what skin stated to get an idea of his percieved market value currently by other potential suitors aside from us! He has him pegged at around 20- 22 million in terms of contractual value. So Whilst I 1000% agree with you that Oubre should not be making more than maybe 15- 18 million tops ( high end), Other teams may be very willing to overpay for him regardless.

I'd have to imagine that a number of other teams that struggle to attract free agents similar to us will definitely be willing to outbid us for him. A few teams that could choose to do that would be: Chicago, New York, Detroit, Orlando, Atlanta, Dallas Mavericks, Chicago, LA, even Charlotte perhaps too? Really any team that might covet Oubre is also a factor to clear space too. Our biggest question should/ will of course be............... How much is too much for Oubre, Given the emergence and improvement of both Bridges and Cam? And even more importantly, The potential cap implications towards our pending contractual obligations to Bridges and Aytons' extensions? I'm with you on capping our available commitment at around 16-18 million. I just think that it's very likely that a number of teams will offer beyond that for him regardless of whether he's worth that amount or not.

[Saberestar]

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[King4Day]

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?s=09

Baynsies been out for like 4 months and he's already injured?

Honestly, at this point, I'd rather KOJ just sit it out. If he plays, I want him off the bench, why mess with a good thing?

I don't think Baynes is hurt. It's probably that he's still working back into game shape. If he is injured, it's probably typical stuff you'd see from out of shape people. Strained calves, hammys, quads, etc.

[King4Day]

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That's too bad. I hope he simply wanted to go to Indy (smart) and not that we didn't have enough money to sign him.

[bwgood77]

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?s=09

Baynsies been out for like 4 months and he's already injured?

Honestly, at this point, I'd rather KOJ just sit it out. If he plays, I want him off the bench, why mess with a good thing?

I don't think Baynes is hurt. It's probably that he's still working back into game shape. If he is injured, it's probably typical stuff you'd see from out of shape people. Strained calves, hammys, quads, etc.

Or a right knee contusion.

[bwgood77]

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That's too bad. I hope he simply wanted to go to Indy (smart) and not that we didn't have enough money to sign him.

I really wanted him, but he's been injured more than Rubio this year and his 3 pt shot went into the gutter...last year 42.6% and before this year, over 40% for career and this year, 30.4%.

[Qwigglez]

We just handled the all-in Ballmer Clippers a tough loss with Rubio and a bunch of 23-24 year olds and so many of you are on about trades and shaking up our roster?

Watch the cap, develop our guys and win 40+ games next year.

These are the most hopeful days of being a Suns fan in 10+ years. I know it feels strange, but try not to overthink it.

No to ALL these Orlando trades.

Agreed. I feel like we are trying to be cute by trying to think ahead. Kind of like how the Thunder traded away Harden. Why not just keep everyone? It's an option. We see Cam playing well and we automatically think that makes Oubre expendable. I thought the biggest red flags for Cam was he had a hip issue? What happens when that becomes a recurring injury?

[bwgood77]

We just handled the all-in Ballmer Clippers a tough loss with Rubio and a bunch of 23-24 year olds and so many of you are on about trades and shaking up our roster?

Watch the cap, develop our guys and win 40+ games next year.

These are the most hopeful days of being a Suns fan in 10+ years. I know it feels strange, but try not to overthink it.

No to ALL these Orlando trades.

Agreed. I feel like we are trying to be cute by trying to think ahead. Kind of like how the Thunder traded away Harden. Why not just keep everyone? It's an option. We see Cam playing well and we automatically think that makes Oubre expendable. I thought the biggest red flags for Cam was he had a hip issue? What happens when that becomes a recurring injury?

Yeah, OKC should have kept Harden. If we had Harden back then, off a rookie contract, I would have definitely wanted to give him a max contract. I don't really view Oubre the same way. I think if we re-sign him to another contract, we will really regret and be trying to dump it for years or wait for it to expire. It's kind of like giving Knight a big deal because he was apparently an all star snub...but it would likely be even quite a bit more money.

[BobbieL]

We just handled the all-in Ballmer Clippers a tough loss with Rubio and a bunch of 23-24 year olds and so many of you are on about trades and shaking up our roster?

Watch the cap, develop our guys and win 40+ games next year.

These are the most hopeful days of being a Suns fan in 10+ years. I know it feels strange, but try not to overthink it.

No to ALL these Orlando trades.

Yup
Bird in the hand this year.

All we need to do is retain Saric and Baynes.... may be Carter .... draft The BPA
Then sign a FA back up to a reasonable deal.

Continuity is our strength.

I am to the point that I think this is the best strategy. Bring bakc SAric (one year deal); bring back Baynes (one year deal) - use your MLE maybe; draft pick and see what happens with the growth of Ayton, Bridges, Cam and Booker. Maybe Oubre

See how the team develops and than in the next FA class - so summer of 2021, fall whenever - the Suns might be a better option.

End of the day, the growth of the young players will still be how this team improves instead of signing Gallo or Millsap.

[darmani]

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[nevetsov]

Was that a Book to DA pick and roll in crunch time?? Finally.

[BobbieL]

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pick that sucker up now - 2m is nothing

[Qwigglez]

We just handled the all-in Ballmer Clippers a tough loss with Rubio and a bunch of 23-24 year olds and so many of you are on about trades and shaking up our roster?

Watch the cap, develop our guys and win 40+ games next year.

These are the most hopeful days of being a Suns fan in 10+ years. I know it feels strange, but try not to overthink it.

No to ALL these Orlando trades.

Agreed. I feel like we are trying to be cute by trying to think ahead. Kind of like how the Thunder traded away Harden. Why not just keep everyone? It's an option. We see Cam playing well and we automatically think that makes Oubre expendable. I thought the biggest red flags for Cam was he had a hip issue? What happens when that becomes a recurring injury?

Yeah, OKC should have kept Harden. If we had Harden back then, off a rookie contract, I would have definitely wanted to give him a max contract. I don't really view Oubre the same way. I think if we re-sign him to another contract, we will really regret and be trying to dump it for years or wait for it to expire. It's kind of like giving Knight a big deal because he was apparently an all star snub...but it would likely be even quite a bit more money.

I'm not comparing Oubre to Harden, I'm comparing the scenario. I don't believe another team is going to offer Oubre a max contract. Especially with the uncertainty of the cap situation right now. Regardless, trading Oubre to fill a backup SG position, probably a position that is very low on the priority list, will only create another hole of SF/PF.

[bigfoot]

We need a 3-D shooting guard for the bench net season? Who should we target?

[bwgood77]

Agreed. I feel like we are trying to be cute by trying to think ahead. Kind of like how the Thunder traded away Harden. Why not just keep everyone? It's an option. We see Cam playing well and we automatically think that makes Oubre expendable. I thought the biggest red flags for Cam was he had a hip issue? What happens when that becomes a recurring injury?

Yeah, OKC should have kept Harden. If we had Harden back then, off a rookie contract, I would have definitely wanted to give him a max contract. I don't really view Oubre the same way. I think if we re-sign him to another contract, we will really regret and be trying to dump it for years or wait for it to expire. It's kind of like giving Knight a big deal because he was apparently an all star snub...but it would likely be even quite a bit more money.

I'm not comparing Oubre to Harden, I'm comparing the scenario. I don't believe another team is going to offer Oubre a max contract. Especially with the uncertainty of the cap situation right now. Regardless, trading Oubre to fill a backup SG position, probably a position that is very low on the priority list, will only create another hole of SF/PF.

Yeah, the main thing is the next contract. I don't think we should pay 4 guys like $95-$100 million. If you have 3 max type stars, it is fine. I think it's fine to keep him, just not to give him an excessive contract the following year since we have two guys up for likely big contracts the following year.