Giannis is 4 Games away from breaking WILT'S PER RECORD!

leolozon · Post #21 » by **leolozon** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 12:59 pm

70sFan wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
leolozon wrote:
How is it useless between eras considering it takes into consideration what an average production would be any given year? It does adjust from year to year.

They didn't record block shots and steals during Wilt's day.

Or turnovers, or off/def rebounds.

Also, they didn't record blocks or steals for the average player too back in Wilt's day. Wilt PER number is a comp to the average player of his era, not a comp to Giannis.

Baski · Post #22 » by **Baski** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 2:46 pm

70sFan wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
leolozon wrote:
How is it useless between eras considering it takes into consideration what an average production would be any given year? It does adjust from year to year.

They didn't record block shots and steals during Wilt's day.

Or turnovers, or off/def rebounds.

I've never understood why they would even list his PER and open it up for comparison to modern PER knowing that a lot of his stats weren't counted. Makes no sense

Tor_Raps · Post #23 » by **Tor_Raps** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 2:50 pm

Wow, that is amazing. Good for him man. Hes a player that you have to respect.

sikma42 · Post #24 » by **sikma42** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 3:01 pm

They didn't count blocks when Wilt played so how can they have an accurate PER for him?

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dautjazz · Post #25 » by **dautjazz** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 3:03 pm

Very impressive, though Wilt probably averaged like 8bpg and probably a couple of steals, so his PER numbers would be astronomical if that was taken into account lol.

dautjazz · Post #26 » by **dautjazz** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 3:04 pm

sikma42 wrote:They didn't count blocks when Wilt played so how can they have an accurate PER for him?

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It's not, guys like Wilt and Russell definitely are at a huge disadvantage by this. Even Oscar Robertson, he used to average several steals.

Lockdown504090 · Post #27 » by **Lockdown504090** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 3:09 pm

pace and rebound hoarding, but still one of the best seasons ive seen.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #28 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 3:26 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:pace and rebound hoarding, but still one of the best seasons ive seen.

Pace doesn't really matter any more than it would for a guy like Magic getting to rack up assists in the Showtime era of the 80's. Teams play to their strengths which is the strengths of their star players or that's how they should play at least.

Side beard · Post #29 » by **Side beard** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 3:39 pm

Repeat 3-peat wrote:We are watching an all time great.

Am I the only one who does not see anything spectacular in Giannis when watching Bucks games?

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:pace and rebound hoarding, but still one of the best seasons ive seen.

Pace doesn't really matter any more than it would for a guy like Magic getting to rack up assists in the Showtime era of the 80's. Teams play to their strengths which is the strengths of their star players or that's how they should play at least.

I bet Lakers stats guys counted every assist to Kareem after he made 4 dribbles in the post and scored on someone.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #30 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 3:44 pm

Side beard wrote:
I bet Lakers stats guys counted every assist to Kareem after he made 4 dribbles in the post and scored on someone.

Its possible. I think it was also known to happen for Stockton when he played at home.

theFireBlanket · Post #31 » by **theFireBlanket** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 5:13 pm

Side beard wrote:
Repeat 3-peat wrote:We are watching an all time great.

Am I the only one who does not see anything spectacular in Giannis when watching Bucks games?

You & Mirotic12. James Harden, Carmelo Anthony, Caron Butler, Jerryd Bayless.

Chronz · Post #32 » by **Chronz** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 5:42 pm

Wilt played alot more. Giannis is being optimized

Oscar9992 wrote:
Sofia wrote:Achieving the highest single season PER, an advanced stat that doesn’t really acknowledge defence, while possibly winning DPOY.

Incredible season, one of the greatest ever.

Yes, PER is Offensive stat that mostly value productivity & efficiency.

Doesn't really value efficiency

Lockdown504090 · Post #33 » by **Lockdown504090** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 5:50 pm

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:pace and rebound hoarding, but still one of the best seasons ive seen.

Pace doesn't really matter any more than it would for a guy like Magic getting to rack up assists in the Showtime era of the 80's. Teams play to their strengths which is the strengths of their star players or that's how they should play at least.

I mean, magic is fifth all time despite having an insanely short relative to other people who are top 5 in anything, so yeah, it does matter to me at least.

Metallikid · Post #34 » by **Metallikid** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 5:52 pm

Does PER take steals and blocks into account? If it does then Wilt's would be higher.

D.Brasco · Post #35 » by **D.Brasco** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 6:42 pm

dautjazz wrote:
sikma42 wrote:They didn't count blocks when Wilt played so how can they have an accurate PER for him?

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

It's not, guys like Wilt and Russell definitely are at a huge disadvantage by this. Even Oscar Robertson, he used to average several steals.

Russell also was at a disadvantage with not having the FMVP award around yet. If he had let's say 8 FMVP to go along with his 11 rings it would be harder to deny the GOAT status.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #36 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 6:45 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:pace and rebound hoarding, but still one of the best seasons ive seen.

Pace doesn't really matter any more than it would for a guy like Magic getting to rack up assists in the Showtime era of the 80's. Teams play to their strengths which is the strengths of their star players or that's how they should play at least.

I mean, magic is fifth all time despite having an insanely short relative to other people who are top 5 in anything, so yeah, it does matter to me at least.

Magic played 12 prime seasons. MJ played basically 11. Wilt played 15 but only 9 as a real scorer yet he and MJ are both top 5 in scoring. That's not insanely short in comparison. Not that I think this line of reasoning has much to do with what we were discussing in the first place regardless.

Lockdown504090 · Post #37 » by **Lockdown504090** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 6:55 pm

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
Pace doesn't really matter any more than it would for a guy like Magic getting to rack up assists in the Showtime era of the 80's. Teams play to their strengths which is the strengths of their star players or that's how they should play at least.

I mean, magic is fifth all time despite having an insanely short relative to other people who are top 5 in anything, so yeah, it does matter to me at least.

Magic played 12 prime seasons. MJ played basically 11. Wilt played 15 but only 9 as a real scorer yet he and MJ are both top 5 in scoring. That's not insanely short in comparison. Not that I think this line of reasoning has much to do with what we were discussing in the first place regardless.

Im comparing Magic's ability to get insane assist numbers in the 80's to Giannis ability to get insane stats in the current nba. Im just saying PER favors guys who have inflated stats due to situation and is a silly metric. If it's a stat that Kendrick Perkins can confidently use, its not good.

Captain_Obvious · Post #38 » by **Captain_Obvious** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 7:08 pm

Dallas defense tonight:

Cavsfansince84 · Post #39 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 7:19 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:Im comparing Magic's ability to get insane assist numbers in the 80's to Giannis ability to get insane stats in the current nba. Im just saying PER favors guys who have inflated stats due to situation and is a silly metric. If it's a stat that Kendrick Perkins can confidently use, its not good.

I wouldn't defend it as some kind of great all encompassing metric. I just don't think pace is why Giannis is having one of the best seasons ever by how it measures on court impact.

HeartBreakKid · Post #40 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sun Aug 9, 2020 5:31 am

leolozon wrote:
70sFan wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:They didn't record block shots and steals during Wilt's day.

Or turnovers, or off/def rebounds.

Also, they didn't record blocks or steals for the average player too back in Wilt's day. Wilt PER number is a comp to the average player of his era, not a comp to Giannis.

Yes, but Wilt was far above the average player in blocks (and steals) - so if it was counted, his PER would be higher.