What is Jaylen Brown's ceiling?

[Jaqua92]

That's the point. Last year as Jaylen was having a disappointing stagnant season few were extolling Jaylen's maturity, motivation, work ethic. Now it is accepted as the gospel. Patience. I think it is advised before we make any rush to judgment on Robert Williams or Romeo Langford.

Robert Williams is a dude from the middle of nowhere in Louisiana. Sort of like Perk who was from the middle of nowhere in east Texas. Sometimes these country boys are soft spoken and that is confused for laziness or stupidity. (Cue Larry Bird, when the world first was introduced to him.) Ain't so with Perk and there are good reasons to think it isn't with Rob.

As for Romeo, he was relegated to James Young Jr. purgatory by all the smart people on this board and elsewhere after being injured and then only playing a few minutes in garbage time. Now it looks like that hot take was ice cold. He may not make it, but it won't be because he is lazy or immature or unmotivated. It will be because he simply isn't talented enough. I like his chances.

I don't think that's true though.

Since he was in college, Jaylen's makeup has been considered one of his key attributes, and he's demonstrated it every step of the way. He was advertised as a different cat. And be it choosing Cal at the expense of his NBA future for academic reasons, to reaching out to Isiah Thomas as a mentor and not hiring an agent, to improving as a shooter dramatically from college to year 1 and then again from year 1 to year 2, improving again dramatically year 3 to year 4, being the emotional leader on the court the day Gordo broke his leg, taking union rep duties, organizing self-improvement stuff for fellow players in Las Vegas. The only time he DIDN'T look like he has exceptional makeup was the 2018 season, and even then, it has been since revealed that the guys he bumped heads with are all selfish jerks and were responsible for the team underperforming.

Jaylen is somewhat clumsy at basketball, and I don't want to make it sound like I think he's an All-Star or incredibly valuable. I don't. But it's easy to see none of these guys are Jaylen.

Glad that people are recognizing now how awful Terry Rozier was.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[BostonCouchGM]

That's the point. Last year as Jaylen was having a disappointing stagnant season few were extolling Jaylen's maturity, motivation, work ethic. Now it is accepted as the gospel. Patience. I think it is advised before we make any rush to judgment on Robert Williams or Romeo Langford.

Robert Williams is a dude from the middle of nowhere in Louisiana. Sort of like Perk who was from the middle of nowhere in east Texas. Sometimes these country boys are soft spoken and that is confused for laziness or stupidity. (Cue Larry Bird, when the world first was introduced to him.) Ain't so with Perk and there are good reasons to think it isn't with Rob.

As for Romeo, he was relegated to James Young Jr. purgatory by all the smart people on this board and elsewhere after being injured and then only playing a few minutes in garbage time. Now it looks like that hot take was ice cold. He may not make it, but it won't be because he is lazy or immature or unmotivated. It will be because he simply isn't talented enough. I like his chances.

I don't think that's true though.

Since he was in college, Jaylen's makeup has been considered one of his key attributes, and he's demonstrated it every step of the way. He was advertised as a different cat. And be it choosing Cal at the expense of his NBA future for academic reasons, to reaching out to Isiah Thomas as a mentor and not hiring an agent, to improving as a shooter dramatically from college to year 1 and then again from year 1 to year 2, improving again dramatically year 3 to year 4, being the emotional leader on the court the day Gordo broke his leg, taking union rep duties, organizing self-improvement stuff for fellow players in Las Vegas. The only time he DIDN'T look like he has exceptional makeup was the 2018 season, and even then, it has been since revealed that the guys he bumped heads with are all selfish jerks and were responsible for the team underperforming.

Jaylen is somewhat clumsy at basketball, and I don't want to make it sound like I think he's an All-Star or incredibly valuable. I don't. But it's easy to see none of these guys are Jaylen.

Glad that people are recognizing now how awful Terry Rozier was.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Rozier is one of Danny's only successful draft picks out of the top 3. The kid led a young group of players to Game 7 of the ECF and people here still **** on him. I just don't get it. Then he deservedly gets paid by CHA and all he does is go out and put up 18-4-4 with a steal a game while shooting 41% from three. You can always tell who doesn't watch or understand basketball by their take on Terry Rozier.

[BostonCouchGM]

Besides looking really good on defense, he has been crazy efficient on offense. Feels like half his shots have been three pointers, and he's knocking a ton of them down.

he really hasn't been looking really good on defense. He has his moments like usual, but others where he gets cooked on man and still others where he's lazy and lost in traffic which leads to them getting wide open looks. The narrative he's a great defender needs to die, it's never been true. Smart is a great defender. Tatum is a great defender. Jaylen and Hayward are solid defenders and neither should get praise for their defense because it's simply not true.

On offense Jaylen is incredible inconsistent. He gets wide open threes and if he's hitting, he has a good game and then we usually win. In the three wins in the bubble so far he's been 15 for 25 from three. In the two losses he's been 3 for 15. Nothing changes and opponent doesn't really matter. He either hits his wide open threes or he doesn't. It makes me think we'll only go as far as Jaylen takes us. Opponents clearly make Jaylen beat them. I think his confidence is sky high right now so I hope he continues this hot streak. We aren't getting to the Finals or even the ECF without him having some big games and he'll only have big games if he's hitting threes.

Jaylen has not been inconsistent offensively at all. In the bubble, he's scored 18-30 every game. See, if you want your arguments taken seriously, you have to apply the same criteria to everyone. So let's compare to Tatum, who's been way more up and down (5-34 points in the bubble). When he has a 2-18 stinker everyone goes "oh, he just had a bad game, he'll be fine next time." Which is true, and totally correct. But when Jaylen does anything close to that, here come the haters talking about how Jaylen is an inconsistent 4th-option 3-and-D guy. 3-15 from 3 in losses... i mean why can't he just always shoot 60% from 3's like in the wins? So inconsistent lol. It's laughable. Mike G has said several times that Jaylen has been our best player since the restart, but what does he know.

Also defensively. OK he's no Marcus Smart who is otherworldly, but he's really good. There's a reason Brad always puts Jaylen on the other team's best swing, not Tatum or Hayward. Who guarded Siakam in the last game? Jaylen. Despite Siakam being a PF and Tatum/Hayward matching up much better size-wise. But Jaylen guards him, because Brad knows Jaylen is our best swing defender. But what does Brad know right? Tatum is clearly the better defender, because Anunoby doesn't score on him but Siakam gets a couple of blowbys on Jaylen while going 5-15.

yes, having a good shooting game, followed by a bad, followed by a good, so on and so forth, is literally inconsistency. And the reason I don't bring up Hayward and Tatum is because unlike Jaylen, their output isn't almost entirely dependent on hitting wide open threes. While Jaylen gets wide open threes off everyone else's penetration and kick-outs, the other players are hitting threes off the dribble and while defended coming off PnR. And the other players actually create for others unlike Jaylen who gets tunnel vision. His assists in the bubble are 1, 1, 0, 2, 2, 1 which is basically a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio. It's not good.

Jaylen has his moments on defense. But there have been several awful passes that have just found their way right to him and people equate that with great defense. Or, guys getting clean looks off him but the ball just doesn't go in and people think he "shut him down!!" lol. Or several times a game he lazily fights through a pick leaving guys wide open or takes the under instead of over or vice versa. These types of mistakes shouldn't be still being made by someone with his experience and supposed defensive prowess. Again, Hayward and Tatum don't make these much if at all. He's a good player who is playing well in the bubble. But his defenders completely ignore how limited he is on offense and how many lapses he has on defense.

I will admit, Kemba on paper is supposed to be better and up until now I've been saying he's our 3rd best player. But he's so limited on offense due to his size. And he's an IT level defensive liability, so he's been knocked down my rankings. I know he makes all-stars based on offense but defense is half the game. So Jaylen is now our third best player. Jaylen has definitely improved his overall game on offense this season. He's become a Klay level 3 pt shooter off the catch and shoot. His handle has improved so he can now dribble up the floor without having to look down at the ball. If he makes another jump with his handle and can not just bring the ball up but lead a fast break, and initiate the offense, he could very well challenge for an all-star team. I'll remind people that he was in the all-star "on the bubble" conversation with a handful of other deserving guys and this year, due to injuries by lock all-star players Wall, Oladipo, Kyrie, and KD, a couple of guys who made the team over Jaylen who likely wouldn't have without those injuries, would push Jaylen off that "on the bubble" list. So don't expect him to make the all-star team unless he has a MAJOR jump AND there are some injuries. And just because player's like Love and Hayward aren't in the all-star conversation due to sacrificing numbers or being on bad teams, doesn't mean they aren't better than Jaylen because they are. I just did a full ranking of NBA players for fun while writing this and Jaylen landed at #48. But I'm guessing people on here would lol reading that.

[BostonCouchGM]

he really hasn't been looking really good on defense. He has his moments like usual, but others where he gets cooked on man and still others where he's lazy and lost in traffic which leads to them getting wide open looks. The narrative he's a great defender needs to die, it's never been true. Smart is a great defender. Tatum is a great defender. Jaylen and Hayward are solid defenders and neither should get praise for their defense because it's simply not true.

On offense Jaylen is incredible inconsistent. He gets wide open threes and if he's hitting, he has a good game and then we usually win. In the three wins in the bubble so far he's been 15 for 25 from three. In the two losses he's been 3 for 15. Nothing changes and opponent doesn't really matter. He either hits his wide open threes or he doesn't. It makes me think we'll only go as far as Jaylen takes us. Opponents clearly make Jaylen beat them. I think his confidence is sky high right now so I hope he continues this hot streak. We aren't getting to the Finals or even the ECF without him having some big games and he'll only have big games if he's hitting threes.

Jaylen has not been inconsistent offensively at all. In the bubble, he's scored 18-30 every game. See, if you want your arguments taken seriously, you have to apply the same criteria to everyone. So let's compare to Tatum, who's been way more up and down (5-34 points in the bubble). When he has a 2-18 stinker everyone goes "oh, he just had a bad game, he'll be fine next time." Which is true, and totally correct. But when Jaylen does anything close to that, here come the haters talking about how Jaylen is an inconsistent 4th-option 3-and-D guy. 3-15 from 3 in losses... i mean why can't he just always shoot 60% from 3's like in the wins? So inconsistent lol. It's laughable. Mike G has said several times that Jaylen has been our best player since the restart, but what does he know.

Also defensively. OK he's no Marcus Smart who is otherworldly, but he's really good. There's a reason Brad always puts Jaylen on the other team's best swing, not Tatum or Hayward. Who guarded Siakam in the last game? Jaylen. Despite Siakam being a PF and Tatum/Hayward matching up much better size-wise. But Jaylen guards him, because Brad knows Jaylen is our best swing defender. But what does Brad know right? Tatum is clearly the better defender, because Anunoby doesn't score on him but Siakam gets a couple of blowbys on Jaylen while going 5-15.

yes, having a good shooting game, followed by a bad, followed by a good, so on and so forth, is literally inconsistency. And the reason I don't bring up Hayward and Tatum is because unlike Jaylen, their output isn't almost entirely dependent on hitting wide open threes. While Jaylen gets wide open threes off everyone else's penetration and kick-outs, the other players are hitting threes off the dribble and while defended coming off PnR. And the other players actually create for others unlike Jaylen who gets tunnel vision. His assists in the bubble are 1, 1, 0, 2, 2, 1 which is basically a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio. It's not good.

Jaylen has his moments on defense. But there have been several awful passes that have just found their way right to him and people equate that with great defense. Or, guys getting clean looks off him but the ball just doesn't go in and people think he "shut him down!!" lol. Or several times a game he lazily fights through a pick leaving guys wide open or takes the under instead of over or vice versa. These types of mistakes shouldn't be still being made by someone with his experience and supposed defensive prowess. Again, Hayward and Tatum don't make these much if at all. He's a good player who is playing well in the bubble. But his defenders completely ignore how limited he is on offense and how many lapses he has on defense.

I will admit, Kemba on paper is supposed to be better and up until now I've been saying he's our 3rd best player. But he's so limited on offense due to his size. And he's an IT level defensive liability, so he's been knocked down my rankings. I know he makes all-stars based on offense but defense is half the game. So Jaylen is now our third best player. Jaylen has definitely improved his overall game on offense this season. He's become a Klay level 3 pt shooter off the catch and shoot. His handle has improved so he can now dribble up the floor without having to look down at the ball. If he makes another jump with his handle and can not just bring the ball up but lead a fast break, and initiate the offense, he could very well challenge for an all-star team. I'll remind people that he was in the all-star "on the bubble" conversation with a handful of other deserving guys and this year, due to injuries by lock all-star players Wall, Oladipo, Kyrie, and KD, a couple of guys who made the team over Jaylen who likely wouldn't have without those injuries, would push Jaylen off that "on the bubble" list. So don't expect him to make the all-star team unless he has a MAJOR jump AND there are some injuries. And just because player's like Love and Hayward aren't in the all-star conversation due to sacrificing numbers or being on bad teams, doesn't mean they aren't better than Jaylen because they are. I just did a full ranking of NBA players for fun while writing this and Jaylen landed at #48. But I'm guessing people on here would lol reading that.

actually to address the #48 (generous btw) I'll list those players team by team (alphabetically)

ATL-Trae Young
BOS-Jayson Tatum, Gordon Hayward
BK-Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant
CHA-
CHI-Zach LaVine
CLE-Kevin Love
DAL-Krystaps Porzingis, Luka Doncic
DEN-Nikola Jokic, Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr.
DET-
GS-Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins
HOU-Russell Westbrook, James Harden
IND-VIctor Oladipo, Domantas Sabonis
LAC-Kawhi Leonard, Paul George
LAL-Lebron James, Anthony Davis
MEM-Ja Morant, Jaren Jackson Jr.
MIA-Jimmy Butler, Bam Adebayo
MIL-Giannis Antetekounmpo, Krish Middleton
MIN-Karl Anthony-Towns
NO-Brandon Ingram, Zion Williamson, Jrue Holiday
NY-
OKC-Chris Paul, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
ORL-
PHI-Joel Embid, Ben Simmons
PHO-DeAndre Ayton, Devin Booker
POR-Daman Lillard, C.J. McCollum
SAC-De'Aaron Fox
SA-DeMar DeRozan, LaMarcus Aldridge
TOR-Kyle Lowry, Pascal Siakam
UT-Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert
WAS-John Wall, Bradley Beal

okay, so that's 50 imo who are no doubt better than Jaylen. lol at people claiming he's top 30. This is a 100% objectively accurate list of players better than Jaylen so I won't entertain those laughably trying to claim a single player on this list isn't better than Jaylen.

[Big Joke Line]

I don't think that's true though.

Since he was in college, Jaylen's makeup has been considered one of his key attributes, and he's demonstrated it every step of the way. He was advertised as a different cat. And be it choosing Cal at the expense of his NBA future for academic reasons, to reaching out to Isiah Thomas as a mentor and not hiring an agent, to improving as a shooter dramatically from college to year 1 and then again from year 1 to year 2, improving again dramatically year 3 to year 4, being the emotional leader on the court the day Gordo broke his leg, taking union rep duties, organizing self-improvement stuff for fellow players in Las Vegas. The only time he DIDN'T look like he has exceptional makeup was the 2018 season, and even then, it has been since revealed that the guys he bumped heads with are all selfish jerks and were responsible for the team underperforming.

Jaylen is somewhat clumsy at basketball, and I don't want to make it sound like I think he's an All-Star or incredibly valuable. I don't. But it's easy to see none of these guys are Jaylen.

Glad that people are recognizing now how awful Terry Rozier was.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Rozier is one of Danny's only successful draft picks out of the top 3. The kid led a young group of players to Game 7 of the ECF and people here still **** on him. I just don't get it. Then he deservedly gets paid by CHA and all he does is go out and put up 18-4-4 with a steal a game while shooting 41% from three. You can always tell who doesn't watch or understand basketball by their take on Terry Rozier.

I read it more as saying Terry was the problem not Kyrie but either way you have a point.

[TommyPointGawd]

.

You talking about Terry Roziers lol Good list I'm sure you will get the reactions you are looking for.

[Darth Celtic]

Jaylen has not been inconsistent offensively at all. In the bubble, he's scored 18-30 every game. See, if you want your arguments taken seriously, you have to apply the same criteria to everyone. So let's compare to Tatum, who's been way more up and down (5-34 points in the bubble). When he has a 2-18 stinker everyone goes "oh, he just had a bad game, he'll be fine next time." Which is true, and totally correct. But when Jaylen does anything close to that, here come the haters talking about how Jaylen is an inconsistent 4th-option 3-and-D guy. 3-15 from 3 in losses... i mean why can't he just always shoot 60% from 3's like in the wins? So inconsistent lol. It's laughable. Mike G has said several times that Jaylen has been our best player since the restart, but what does he know.

Also defensively. OK he's no Marcus Smart who is otherworldly, but he's really good. There's a reason Brad always puts Jaylen on the other team's best swing, not Tatum or Hayward. Who guarded Siakam in the last game? Jaylen. Despite Siakam being a PF and Tatum/Hayward matching up much better size-wise. But Jaylen guards him, because Brad knows Jaylen is our best swing defender. But what does Brad know right? Tatum is clearly the better defender, because Anunoby doesn't score on him but Siakam gets a couple of blowbys on Jaylen while going 5-15.

yes, having a good shooting game, followed by a bad, followed by a good, so on and so forth, is literally inconsistency. And the reason I don't bring up Hayward and Tatum is because unlike Jaylen, their output isn't almost entirely dependent on hitting wide open threes. While Jaylen gets wide open threes off everyone else's penetration and kick-outs, the other players are hitting threes off the dribble and while defended coming off PnR. And the other players actually create for others unlike Jaylen who gets tunnel vision. His assists in the bubble are 1, 1, 0, 2, 2, 1 which is basically a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio. It's not good.

Jaylen has his moments on defense. But there have been several awful passes that have just found their way right to him and people equate that with great defense. Or, guys getting clean looks off him but the ball just doesn't go in and people think he "shut him down!!" lol. Or several times a game he lazily fights through a pick leaving guys wide open or takes the under instead of over or vice versa. These types of mistakes shouldn't be still being made by someone with his experience and supposed defensive prowess. Again, Hayward and Tatum don't make these much if at all. He's a good player who is playing well in the bubble. But his defenders completely ignore how limited he is on offense and how many lapses he has on defense.

I will admit, Kemba on paper is supposed to be better and up until now I've been saying he's our 3rd best player. But he's so limited on offense due to his size. And he's an IT level defensive liability, so he's been knocked down my rankings. I know he makes all-stars based on offense but defense is half the game. So Jaylen is now our third best player. Jaylen has definitely improved his overall game on offense this season. He's become a Klay level 3 pt shooter off the catch and shoot. His handle has improved so he can now dribble up the floor without having to look down at the ball. If he makes another jump with his handle and can not just bring the ball up but lead a fast break, and initiate the offense, he could very well challenge for an all-star team. I'll remind people that he was in the all-star "on the bubble" conversation with a handful of other deserving guys and this year, due to injuries by lock all-star players Wall, Oladipo, Kyrie, and KD, a couple of guys who made the team over Jaylen who likely wouldn't have without those injuries, would push Jaylen off that "on the bubble" list. So don't expect him to make the all-star team unless he has a MAJOR jump AND there are some injuries. And just because player's like Love and Hayward aren't in the all-star conversation due to sacrificing numbers or being on bad teams, doesn't mean they aren't better than Jaylen because they are. I just did a full ranking of NBA players for fun while writing this and Jaylen landed at #48. But I'm guessing people on here would lol reading that.

actually to address the #48 (generous btw) I'll list those players team by team (alphabetically)

ATL-Trae Young
BOS-Jayson Tatum, Gordon Hayward
BK-Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant
CHA-
CHI-Zach LaVine
CLE-Kevin Love
DAL-Krystaps Porzingis, Luka Doncic
DEN-Nikola Jokic, Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr.
DET-
GS-Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins
HOU-Russell Westbrook, James Harden
IND-VIctor Oladipo, Domantas Sabonis
LAC-Kawhi Leonard, Paul George
LAL-Lebron James, Anthony Davis
MEM-Ja Morant, Jaren Jackson Jr.
MIA-Jimmy Butler, Bam Adebayo
MIL-Giannis Antetekounmpo, Krish Middleton
MIN-Karl Anthony-Towns
NO-Brandon Ingram, Zion Williamson, Jrue Holiday
NY-
OKC-Chris Paul, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
ORL-
PHI-Joel Embid, Ben Simmons
PHO-DeAndre Ayton, Devin Booker
POR-Daman Lillard, C.J. McCollum
SAC-De'Aaron Fox
SA-DeMar DeRozan, LaMarcus Aldridge
TOR-Kyle Lowry, Pascal Siakam
UT-Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert
WAS-John Wall, Bradley Beal

okay, so that's 50 imo who are no doubt better than Jaylen. lol at people claiming he's top 30. This is a 100% objectively accurate list of players better than Jaylen so I won't entertain those laughably trying to claim a single player on this list isn't better than Jaylen.

your list is ****, not 1, but many.

[djFan71]

yes, having a good shooting game, followed by a bad, followed by a good, so on and so forth, is literally inconsistency. And the reason I don't bring up Hayward and Tatum is because unlike Jaylen, their output isn't almost entirely dependent on hitting wide open threes. While Jaylen gets wide open threes off everyone else's penetration and kick-outs, the other players are hitting threes off the dribble and while defended coming off PnR. And the other players actually create for others unlike Jaylen who gets tunnel vision. His assists in the bubble are 1, 1, 0, 2, 2, 1 which is basically a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio. It's not good.

Jaylen has his moments on defense. But there have been several awful passes that have just found their way right to him and people equate that with great defense. Or, guys getting clean looks off him but the ball just doesn't go in and people think he "shut him down!!" lol. Or several times a game he lazily fights through a pick leaving guys wide open or takes the under instead of over or vice versa. These types of mistakes shouldn't be still being made by someone with his experience and supposed defensive prowess. Again, Hayward and Tatum don't make these much if at all. He's a good player who is playing well in the bubble. But his defenders completely ignore how limited he is on offense and how many lapses he has on defense.

I will admit, Kemba on paper is supposed to be better and up until now I've been saying he's our 3rd best player. But he's so limited on offense due to his size. And he's an IT level defensive liability, so he's been knocked down my rankings. I know he makes all-stars based on offense but defense is half the game. So Jaylen is now our third best player. Jaylen has definitely improved his overall game on offense this season. He's become a Klay level 3 pt shooter off the catch and shoot. His handle has improved so he can now dribble up the floor without having to look down at the ball. If he makes another jump with his handle and can not just bring the ball up but lead a fast break, and initiate the offense, he could very well challenge for an all-star team. I'll remind people that he was in the all-star "on the bubble" conversation with a handful of other deserving guys and this year, due to injuries by lock all-star players Wall, Oladipo, Kyrie, and KD, a couple of guys who made the team over Jaylen who likely wouldn't have without those injuries, would push Jaylen off that "on the bubble" list. So don't expect him to make the all-star team unless he has a MAJOR jump AND there are some injuries. And just because player's like Love and Hayward aren't in the all-star conversation due to sacrificing numbers or being on bad teams, doesn't mean they aren't better than Jaylen because they are. I just did a full ranking of NBA players for fun while writing this and Jaylen landed at #48. But I'm guessing people on here would lol reading that.

actually to address the #48 (generous btw) I'll list those players team by team (alphabetically)

ATL-Trae Young
BOS-Jayson Tatum, Gordon Hayward
BK-Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant
CHA-
CHI-Zach LaVine
CLE-Kevin Love
DAL-Krystaps Porzingis, Luka Doncic
DEN-Nikola Jokic, Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr.
DET-
GS-Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins
HOU-Russell Westbrook, James Harden
IND-VIctor Oladipo, Domantas Sabonis
LAC-Kawhi Leonard, Paul George
LAL-Lebron James, Anthony Davis
MEM-Ja Morant, Jaren Jackson Jr.
MIA-Jimmy Butler, Bam Adebayo
MIL-Giannis Antetekounmpo, Krish Middleton
MIN-Karl Anthony-Towns
NO-Brandon Ingram, Zion Williamson, Jrue Holiday
NY-
OKC-Chris Paul, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
ORL-
PHI-Joel Embid, Ben Simmons
PHO-DeAndre Ayton, Devin Booker
POR-Daman Lillard, C.J. McCollum
SAC-De'Aaron Fox
SA-DeMar DeRozan, LaMarcus Aldridge
TOR-Kyle Lowry, Pascal Siakam
UT-Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert
WAS-John Wall, Bradley Beal

okay, so that's 50 imo who are no doubt better than Jaylen. lol at people claiming he's top 30. This is a 100% objectively accurate list of players better than Jaylen so I won't entertain those laughably trying to claim a single player on this list isn't better than Jaylen.

your list is ****, not 1, but many.

That seems like a reasonable take on Jaylen's pros/cons to me.

Even if you don't agree on all of the list, Jaylen's in the 40s somewhere. Which is great. I'm not sure why people think saying he's a top 50 player is hating. Even that list shows he would be 1st or 2nd on a lot of teams, 3rd on most. That's good.

[Fencer reregistered]

From looking through that list quickly, and assuming everybody was healthy, I had about:

25-30: Yeah, he's better than Jaylen.
15+: It's a reasonable debate.
5+: NFW.

But upon review I probably was underrating the value of Jaylen's defensive versatility.

[Feed Your Head]

That seems like a reasonable take on Jaylen's pros/cons to me.

Even if you don't agree on all of the list, Jaylen's in the 40s somewhere. Which is great. I'm not sure why people think saying he's a top 50 player is hating. Even that list shows he would be 1st or 2nd on a lot of teams, 3rd on most. That's good.

This is where there is always a disconnect with Jaylen. The most negative posters about Jaylen say he’s a good player, but probably more in the top 50-60 range. The really pro Jaylen posters think he is a top 30 player already. That is a pretty big split lol. The former is probably closer to the truth, I have him around 42ish as of now. I wouldn’t take 41 guys over him if I were building a team, but for now? Probably.

I think the divide kind of lies in raw versus impact stats. If you look at his raw numbers, you see 20/6 on 50/40 splits and a 60% TS. Which are fantastic numbers, but then you need to consider the role he is playing. Crowder putting up 15/6 on 46/40 splits playing that role in the offense. Now I am not saying Jaylen is Crowder lol, Jaylen has more responsibilities, he creates his own looks from two 30% more than Crowder did in 16-17, though the unassisted three percentage is similar. But he is playing the role in the offense that is easiest to succeed in. And I think that’s partially why he ranks so low in impact stats. He is between 70-160 in RPM/RAPM/PIPM/RAPTOR/BPM, with RAPM being the outlier on the low side. Now I don’t think they do him justice, but there is something to be said about a consensus like that. I don’t think his contract is a problem at all, I am thinking he gets dealt for a star player eventually. But for now I think he’s a great fit with Kemba/Hayward/Tatum.

Point is, nobody here thinks Jaylen sucks or is a hater IMO. Yeah there are some bait-y posts by a few posters that rile people up lol, but even these posters think Jaylen is a very good NBA player.

[keevsnick1]

That seems like a reasonable take on Jaylen's pros/cons to me.

Even if you don't agree on all of the list, Jaylen's in the 40s somewhere. Which is great. I'm not sure why people think saying he's a top 50 player is hating. Even that list shows he would be 1st or 2nd on a lot of teams, 3rd on most. That's good.

This is where there is always a disconnect with Jaylen. The most negative posters about Jaylen say he’s a good player, but probably more in the top 50-60 range. The really pro Jaylen posters think he is a top 30 player already. That is a pretty big split lol. The former is probably closer to the truth, I have him around 42ish as of now. I wouldn’t take 41 guys over him if I were building a team, but for now? Probably.

I think the divide kind of lies in raw versus impact stats. If you look at his raw numbers, you see 20/6 on 50/40 splits and a 60% TS. Which are fantastic numbers, but then you need to consider the role he is playing. Crowder putting up 15/6 on 46/40 splits playing that role in the offense. Now I am not saying Jaylen is Crowder lol, Jaylen has more responsibilities, he creates his own looks from two 30% more than Crowder did in 16-17, though the unassisted three percentage is similar. But he is playing the role in the offense that is easiest to succeed in. And I think that’s partially why he ranks so low in impact stats. He is between 70-160 in RPM/RAPM/PIPM/RAPTOR/BPM, with RAPM being the outlier on the low side. Now I don’t think they do him justice, but there is something to be said about a consensus like that. I don’t think his contract is a problem at all, I am thinking he gets dealt for a star player eventually. But for now I think he’s a great fit with Kemba/Hayward/Tatum.

Point is, nobody here thinks Jaylen sucks or is a hater IMO. Yeah there are some bait-y posts by a few posters that rile people up lol, but even these posters think Jaylen is a very good NBA player.

Partially the issue is there's not actually as much difference between the 30th best player and the 55th best player as people think. Like those guys are in a sense all in the same tier. Looking at the list above and there are like 15 guys who I think you could at least argue that Jaylen is more valuable then right, before factoring in his relative youth.

[ParticleMan]

I would put Jaylen in the 30-40 range in terms of NBA players. I wouldn't quibble going down to 50, there are so many factors that one can use in defining relative value compared to other players. I don't think that's the issue.

My issue is only with applying a completely different and much harsher set of criteria for evaluating JB relative to even other guys on our own team, let alone other teams. I don't really care that much, I just think it's silly and displays an unsupported agenda. It's fine to criticize JB, but apply the same standards to others too. Everyone has room to improve.

On our team, I'd put Jaylen as about equal to Hayward, slightly below Tatum but above Kemba at this point. And factoring in youth and contract (assuming Tatum gets a max), I'd say he's about equal in value to Tatum.

[hugepatsfan]

Jaylen has not been inconsistent offensively at all. In the bubble, he's scored 18-30 every game. See, if you want your arguments taken seriously, you have to apply the same criteria to everyone. So let's compare to Tatum, who's been way more up and down (5-34 points in the bubble). When he has a 2-18 stinker everyone goes "oh, he just had a bad game, he'll be fine next time." Which is true, and totally correct. But when Jaylen does anything close to that, here come the haters talking about how Jaylen is an inconsistent 4th-option 3-and-D guy. 3-15 from 3 in losses... i mean why can't he just always shoot 60% from 3's like in the wins? So inconsistent lol. It's laughable. Mike G has said several times that Jaylen has been our best player since the restart, but what does he know.

Also defensively. OK he's no Marcus Smart who is otherworldly, but he's really good. There's a reason Brad always puts Jaylen on the other team's best swing, not Tatum or Hayward. Who guarded Siakam in the last game? Jaylen. Despite Siakam being a PF and Tatum/Hayward matching up much better size-wise. But Jaylen guards him, because Brad knows Jaylen is our best swing defender. But what does Brad know right? Tatum is clearly the better defender, because Anunoby doesn't score on him but Siakam gets a couple of blowbys on Jaylen while going 5-15.

yes, having a good shooting game, followed by a bad, followed by a good, so on and so forth, is literally inconsistency. And the reason I don't bring up Hayward and Tatum is because unlike Jaylen, their output isn't almost entirely dependent on hitting wide open threes. While Jaylen gets wide open threes off everyone else's penetration and kick-outs, the other players are hitting threes off the dribble and while defended coming off PnR. And the other players actually create for others unlike Jaylen who gets tunnel vision. His assists in the bubble are 1, 1, 0, 2, 2, 1 which is basically a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio. It's not good.

Jaylen has his moments on defense. But there have been several awful passes that have just found their way right to him and people equate that with great defense. Or, guys getting clean looks off him but the ball just doesn't go in and people think he "shut him down!!" lol. Or several times a game he lazily fights through a pick leaving guys wide open or takes the under instead of over or vice versa. These types of mistakes shouldn't be still being made by someone with his experience and supposed defensive prowess. Again, Hayward and Tatum don't make these much if at all. He's a good player who is playing well in the bubble. But his defenders completely ignore how limited he is on offense and how many lapses he has on defense.

I will admit, Kemba on paper is supposed to be better and up until now I've been saying he's our 3rd best player. But he's so limited on offense due to his size. And he's an IT level defensive liability, so he's been knocked down my rankings. I know he makes all-stars based on offense but defense is half the game. So Jaylen is now our third best player. Jaylen has definitely improved his overall game on offense this season. He's become a Klay level 3 pt shooter off the catch and shoot. His handle has improved so he can now dribble up the floor without having to look down at the ball. If he makes another jump with his handle and can not just bring the ball up but lead a fast break, and initiate the offense, he could very well challenge for an all-star team. I'll remind people that he was in the all-star "on the bubble" conversation with a handful of other deserving guys and this year, due to injuries by lock all-star players Wall, Oladipo, Kyrie, and KD, a couple of guys who made the team over Jaylen who likely wouldn't have without those injuries, would push Jaylen off that "on the bubble" list. So don't expect him to make the all-star team unless he has a MAJOR jump AND there are some injuries. And just because player's like Love and Hayward aren't in the all-star conversation due to sacrificing numbers or being on bad teams, doesn't mean they aren't better than Jaylen because they are. I just did a full ranking of NBA players for fun while writing this and Jaylen landed at #48. But I'm guessing people on here would lol reading that.

actually to address the #48 (generous btw) I'll list those players team by team (alphabetically)

ATL-Trae Young
BOS-Jayson Tatum, Gordon Hayward
BK-Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant
CHA-
CHI-Zach LaVine
CLE-Kevin Love
DAL-Krystaps Porzingis, Luka Doncic
DEN-Nikola Jokic, Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr.
DET-
GS-Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins
HOU-Russell Westbrook, James Harden
IND-VIctor Oladipo, Domantas Sabonis
LAC-Kawhi Leonard, Paul George
LAL-Lebron James, Anthony Davis
MEM-Ja Morant, Jaren Jackson Jr.
MIA-Jimmy Butler, Bam Adebayo
MIL-Giannis Antetekounmpo, Krish Middleton
MIN-Karl Anthony-Towns
NO-Brandon Ingram, Zion Williamson, Jrue Holiday
NY-
OKC-Chris Paul, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
ORL-
PHI-Joel Embid, Ben Simmons
PHO-DeAndre Ayton, Devin Booker
POR-Daman Lillard, C.J. McCollum
SAC-De'Aaron Fox
SA-DeMar DeRozan, LaMarcus Aldridge
TOR-Kyle Lowry, Pascal Siakam
UT-Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert
WAS-John Wall, Bradley Beal

okay, so that's 50 imo who are no doubt better than Jaylen. lol at people claiming he's top 30. This is a 100% objectively accurate list of players better than Jaylen so I won't entertain those laughably trying to claim a single player on this list isn't better than Jaylen.

Brown (and Kemba, who you inexplicably left off) are better than the following:

Wiggins
MPJ
Wall
DeRozen
Love
Lavine
Ayton

Kemba is better than half of your list if you just go by him.

[BostonCouchGM]

yes, having a good shooting game, followed by a bad, followed by a good, so on and so forth, is literally inconsistency. And the reason I don't bring up Hayward and Tatum is because unlike Jaylen, their output isn't almost entirely dependent on hitting wide open threes. While Jaylen gets wide open threes off everyone else's penetration and kick-outs, the other players are hitting threes off the dribble and while defended coming off PnR. And the other players actually create for others unlike Jaylen who gets tunnel vision. His assists in the bubble are 1, 1, 0, 2, 2, 1 which is basically a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio. It's not good.

Jaylen has his moments on defense. But there have been several awful passes that have just found their way right to him and people equate that with great defense. Or, guys getting clean looks off him but the ball just doesn't go in and people think he "shut him down!!" lol. Or several times a game he lazily fights through a pick leaving guys wide open or takes the under instead of over or vice versa. These types of mistakes shouldn't be still being made by someone with his experience and supposed defensive prowess. Again, Hayward and Tatum don't make these much if at all. He's a good player who is playing well in the bubble. But his defenders completely ignore how limited he is on offense and how many lapses he has on defense.

I will admit, Kemba on paper is supposed to be better and up until now I've been saying he's our 3rd best player. But he's so limited on offense due to his size. And he's an IT level defensive liability, so he's been knocked down my rankings. I know he makes all-stars based on offense but defense is half the game. So Jaylen is now our third best player. Jaylen has definitely improved his overall game on offense this season. He's become a Klay level 3 pt shooter off the catch and shoot. His handle has improved so he can now dribble up the floor without having to look down at the ball. If he makes another jump with his handle and can not just bring the ball up but lead a fast break, and initiate the offense, he could very well challenge for an all-star team. I'll remind people that he was in the all-star "on the bubble" conversation with a handful of other deserving guys and this year, due to injuries by lock all-star players Wall, Oladipo, Kyrie, and KD, a couple of guys who made the team over Jaylen who likely wouldn't have without those injuries, would push Jaylen off that "on the bubble" list. So don't expect him to make the all-star team unless he has a MAJOR jump AND there are some injuries. And just because player's like Love and Hayward aren't in the all-star conversation due to sacrificing numbers or being on bad teams, doesn't mean they aren't better than Jaylen because they are. I just did a full ranking of NBA players for fun while writing this and Jaylen landed at #48. But I'm guessing people on here would lol reading that.

actually to address the #48 (generous btw) I'll list those players team by team (alphabetically)

ATL-Trae Young
BOS-Jayson Tatum, Gordon Hayward
BK-Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant
CHA-
CHI-Zach LaVine
CLE-Kevin Love
DAL-Krystaps Porzingis, Luka Doncic
DEN-Nikola Jokic, Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr.
DET-
GS-Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins
HOU-Russell Westbrook, James Harden
IND-VIctor Oladipo, Domantas Sabonis
LAC-Kawhi Leonard, Paul George
LAL-Lebron James, Anthony Davis
MEM-Ja Morant, Jaren Jackson Jr.
MIA-Jimmy Butler, Bam Adebayo
MIL-Giannis Antetekounmpo, Krish Middleton
MIN-Karl Anthony-Towns
NO-Brandon Ingram, Zion Williamson, Jrue Holiday
NY-
OKC-Chris Paul, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
ORL-
PHI-Joel Embid, Ben Simmons
PHO-DeAndre Ayton, Devin Booker
POR-Daman Lillard, C.J. McCollum
SAC-De'Aaron Fox
SA-DeMar DeRozan, LaMarcus Aldridge
TOR-Kyle Lowry, Pascal Siakam
UT-Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert
WAS-John Wall, Bradley Beal

okay, so that's 50 imo who are no doubt better than Jaylen. lol at people claiming he's top 30. This is a 100% objectively accurate list of players better than Jaylen so I won't entertain those laughably trying to claim a single player on this list isn't better than Jaylen.

Brown (and Kemba, who you inexplicably left off) are better than the following:

Wiggins
MPJ
Wall
DeRozen
Love
Lavine
Ayton

Kemba is better than half of your list if you just go by him.

Stop. And I no longer consider Kemba better. He's a terrible defender and not a great PG. He's a 5'11" SG. He's a nice scorer but Jaylen is a better overall player as of right now imo.

Not debatable:

Ayton-19-12-2 with 1.5 blocks a game for a playoff team at 21 y/o. One of the top 5 centers in the league (Jokic, Embid, KAT, Gobert)
LaVine-25-5-4 with 1.5 steals a game. Shoots 38% from three
Wall-23-4-11 with 2 steals a game the last fully healthy season he played. 5 X All-star
DeRozan-22-5-5 with 1 steal a game. 4 X All-star
Love-18-10-3. One of the best stretch fours in the league. 5 X All-star. 2 X All-NBA., NBA Champion.

Debatable (not to me) but they're better:

Wiggins-22-5-4 with 1 block a game. Has been on garbage teams his whole career. We'll see what happens once everyone is healthy in GS

MPJ-he's clearly better but because of injuries the sample size is too small for casuals to buy into just yet so I'll give you that. His recent four game stretch has everyone talking and will be common place going forward should he stay healthy. If not for his injury, he was likely to be the #1 player in his draft. He's 6'10", can score in every way imaginable, and should be at minimum a solid defender once he develops. He's KD lite (for now)

recent four game stretch:

37-12
30-15
27-12
23-11

Did anyone catch Mr. Inconsistent Shooter's game today? 3-13 and 1-8 from three?

[Jaqua92]

I don't think that's true though.

Since he was in college, Jaylen's makeup has been considered one of his key attributes, and he's demonstrated it every step of the way. He was advertised as a different cat. And be it choosing Cal at the expense of his NBA future for academic reasons, to reaching out to Isiah Thomas as a mentor and not hiring an agent, to improving as a shooter dramatically from college to year 1 and then again from year 1 to year 2, improving again dramatically year 3 to year 4, being the emotional leader on the court the day Gordo broke his leg, taking union rep duties, organizing self-improvement stuff for fellow players in Las Vegas. The only time he DIDN'T look like he has exceptional makeup was the 2018 season, and even then, it has been since revealed that the guys he bumped heads with are all selfish jerks and were responsible for the team underperforming.

Jaylen is somewhat clumsy at basketball, and I don't want to make it sound like I think he's an All-Star or incredibly valuable. I don't. But it's easy to see none of these guys are Jaylen.

Glad that people are recognizing now how awful Terry Rozier was.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Rozier is one of Danny's only successful draft picks out of the top 3. The kid led a young group of players to Game 7 of the ECF and people here still **** on him. I just don't get it. Then he deservedly gets paid by CHA and all he does is go out and put up 18-4-4 with a steal a game while shooting 41% from three. You can always tell who doesn't watch or understand basketball by their take on Terry Rozier.

I'm taking about his toxic attitude, dude, not his talents, is the passive aggression really necessary?

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[Jaqua92]

I would put Jaylen in the 30-40 range in terms of NBA players. I wouldn't quibble going down to 50, there are so many factors that one can use in defining relative value compared to other players. I don't think that's the issue.

My issue is only with applying a completely different and much harsher set of criteria for evaluating JB relative to even other guys on our own team, let alone other teams. I don't really care that much, I just think it's silly and displays an unsupported agenda. It's fine to criticize JB, but apply the same standards to others too. Everyone has room to improve.

On our team, I'd put Jaylen as about equal to Hayward, slightly below Tatum but above Kemba at this point. And factoring in youth and contract (assuming Tatum gets a max), I'd say he's about equal in value to Tatum.

Maybe now, Jaylen will probably be a top 25 player in his prime. Or so.

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[floyd]

An argument that requires we examine John Wall’s 2016 season thoroughly is kind of hard to take seriously. He was a great player - hope he makes it back but I mean come on ...

[themoneyteam2]

Well it's clear he's a top 50 player in the league currently, despite what some said about him in February. Apparently Lonzo Ball, Jonathan Isaac, AND Valuncianis are all just as good or better than Brown though according to a poster who says he would "absolutely do a better job as GM than Ainge"

[JHTruth]

That seems like a reasonable take on Jaylen's pros/cons to me.

Even if you don't agree on all of the list, Jaylen's in the 40s somewhere. Which is great. I'm not sure why people think saying he's a top 50 player is hating. Even that list shows he would be 1st or 2nd on a lot of teams, 3rd on most. That's good.

This is where there is always a disconnect with Jaylen. The most negative posters about Jaylen say he’s a good player, but probably more in the top 50-60 range. The really pro Jaylen posters think he is a top 30 player already. That is a pretty big split lol. The former is probably closer to the truth, I have him around 42ish as of now. I wouldn’t take 41 guys over him if I were building a team, but for now? Probably.

I think the divide kind of lies in raw versus impact stats. If you look at his raw numbers, you see 20/6 on 50/40 splits and a 60% TS. Which are fantastic numbers, but then you need to consider the role he is playing. Crowder putting up 15/6 on 46/40 splits playing that role in the offense. Now I am not saying Jaylen is Crowder lol, Jaylen has more responsibilities, he creates his own looks from two 30% more than Crowder did in 16-17, though the unassisted three percentage is similar. But he is playing the role in the offense that is easiest to succeed in. And I think that’s partially why he ranks so low in impact stats. He is between 70-160 in RPM/RAPM/PIPM/RAPTOR/BPM, with RAPM being the outlier on the low side. Now I don’t think they do him justice, but there is something to be said about a consensus like that. I don’t think his contract is a problem at all, I am thinking he gets dealt for a star player eventually. But for now I think he’s a great fit with Kemba/Hayward/Tatum.

Point is, nobody here thinks Jaylen sucks or is a hater IMO. Yeah there are some bait-y posts by a few posters that rile people up lol, but even these posters think Jaylen is a very good NBA player.

Jaylen is a very good player but as you've laid out, the advanced stats don't really seem to place him among the NBA elite. Tatum is already a top-10 player in all the advanced systems and rising. Now he does guard the other teams best perimeter player every night alongside Smart which takes away from his offense but he does seem to be a tad overrated by a lot of people. He seems more like a 3-4 time All-Star rather than the All-Star lock, MVP conversation category some people place him in. I think his ceiling is top 30 player in the league while Tatum will be an MVP candidate every year given health.

I think RW3 is more important to the Celtics future than Jaylen. Very few SGs have the ability to really be major impact players unless they're Jordan/Kobe/Wade level talents....

[Feed Your Head]

He looked more comfortable passing the ball off of penetration last night than i ever imagined he would, he didn’t even look like the Jaylen we have seen over the years lol. Just effortlessly broke his man down off the dribble and made multiple awesome passes, all in rhythm.

He was so robotic with this even before the shutdown, dude put in a stupid amount of work during the lay-off. I don’t think he will ever be a guy you can build an offense around, but I’m coming around on him being that second guy on offense. I still think he very well could be dealt when a superstar wants out, but his improvement is real. And that’s coming from someone that some here have called a Jaylen “hater”, which was laughable.