Political Roundtable Part XXVIII

[Zonkerbl]

Abolish DHS

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/08/09/dhs-portland-civil-liberties-abuses-black-lives-matter-homeland-column/3319009001/

Already idiots in the comments are like "but we need the coast guard." Dude they're not proposing to abolishing the fricking Coast Guard, read the damn article.

[Zonkerbl]

#abolishthegop

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/08/10/do-we-even-need-republican-party/#comments-wrapper

[dckingsfan]

Abolish DHS

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/08/09/dhs-portland-civil-liberties-abuses-black-lives-matter-homeland-column/3319009001/

Already idiots in the comments are like "but we need the coast guard." Dude they're not proposing to abolishing the fricking Coast Guard, read the damn article.

Then why do you want to get rid of NOAA, what did they ever do?

[Pointgod]

Except like everything with Trump it’s just the allusion that he’s doing something. He signed one executive order and couple of memorandums that don’t have any teeth.

Well, of course. I'm not saying that Trump is advancing GOOD policies - just that he's advancing DEM policies* (in whatever toothless manner that's befitting this administration).

The optics of this are huge. He's actively pushing for lib policies, and the opportunity to score political points, especially amongst independents is huge. Moreover, this could do a lot of heavy lifting in shifting the overton window. Getting bogged down in the weeds as to how effective his particular EO might be, is small-picture thinking.

I'm not saying the orange man isn't bad. I'm just saying that screeching it at every turn is ineffective messaging and at this stage of Democracy's death spiral, messaging is everything.

If you can effectively twist Trump's toothless EO into the Republican Party endorsing Lib policies and it (a) changes quite a few hearts and minds; and/or (b) pisses off R's more effectively than continuing to point out that orange man is in fact, bad.

Plus, a good chunk of Trumpers used to be solidly Blue voters - the union/blue collar crowd. Do whatever is necessary to get them to stop voting against their own interests.

*edit: I guess I did say "these are GOOD things." well, i clarified my point and i stand by it.

I see the point you’re trying to make but I don’t see it as a clear message. Wouldn’t saying that Trump is pushing the same policies as Democrats just give people a reason to vote for Trump? I don’t believe that you’re going to get back the Obama Trump voters by policy. These guys see Trump as either a **** you to the establishment, he’s their racist avatar or some faux tough guy who’s dealing with China (completely false he’s Xi’s bitch) and those Arabs (even though Saudi Arabia had him by the balls).

I think the biggest problem is that it takes away from the truth that Democrats passed a bill and Republicans and Trump have their thumb up their ass for 3 months doing nothing. The narrative should be simple Trump has completely **** up the response to coronavirus, thousands of people that didn’t need to die are dead because of him, and Democrats have passed a bill to get direct relief to the American people and Trump and the Republicans don’t care or else they would have done something months ago.

I agree that Democrats need to hammer home a stronger message, but I’m not sure that giving Trump any credit for literally doing nothing makes sense.

[Ruzious]

The Thing actually issued an Executive Order deferring payroll taxes beginning September 1st. Of course, it's so poorly and vaguely worded that Treasury will have to rewrite it - providing guidance so that people can actually figure it out. Here's something Wolters Kluwer/CCH (not CCJ) wrote about it:

Congressional Democrats and Republicans have been against using any sort of payroll tax holiday as an economic stimulus because it is inefficent and slow. Obviously, it would only provide a benefit to individuals who are employed at a time when millions are unemployed. Also, any benefits employees receive is done so paycheck to paycheck, instead of as on lump-sum such as the economic impact payment made to individuals earlier in 2020.

In other words, nobody with a brain wants this, so Trump feels it will appeal to his base.

[pancakes3]

Except like everything with Trump it’s just the allusion that he’s doing something. He signed one executive order and couple of memorandums that don’t have any teeth.

Well, of course. I'm not saying that Trump is advancing GOOD policies - just that he's advancing DEM policies* (in whatever toothless manner that's befitting this administration).

The optics of this are huge. He's actively pushing for lib policies, and the opportunity to score political points, especially amongst independents is huge. Moreover, this could do a lot of heavy lifting in shifting the overton window. Getting bogged down in the weeds as to how effective his particular EO might be, is small-picture thinking.

I'm not saying the orange man isn't bad. I'm just saying that screeching it at every turn is ineffective messaging and at this stage of Democracy's death spiral, messaging is everything.

If you can effectively twist Trump's toothless EO into the Republican Party endorsing Lib policies and it (a) changes quite a few hearts and minds; and/or (b) pisses off R's more effectively than continuing to point out that orange man is in fact, bad.

Plus, a good chunk of Trumpers used to be solidly Blue voters - the union/blue collar crowd. Do whatever is necessary to get them to stop voting against their own interests.

*edit: I guess I did say "these are GOOD things." well, i clarified my point and i stand by it.

I see the point you’re trying to make but I don’t see it as a clear message. Wouldn’t saying that Trump is pushing the same policies as Democrats just give people a reason to vote for Trump? I don’t believe that you’re going to get back the Obama Trump voters by policy. These guys see Trump as either a **** you to the establishment, he’s their racist avatar or some faux tough guy who’s dealing with China (completely false he’s Xi’s bitch) and those Arabs (even though Saudi Arabia had him by the balls).

I think the biggest problem is that it takes away from the truth that Democrats passed a bill and Republicans and Trump have their thumb up their ass for 3 months doing nothing. The narrative should be simple Trump has completely **** up the response to coronavirus, thousands of people that didn’t need to die are dead because of him, and Democrats have passed a bill to get direct relief to the American people and Trump and the Republicans don’t care or else they would have done something months ago.

I agree that Democrats need to hammer home a stronger message, but I’m not sure that giving Trump any credit for literally doing nothing makes sense.

i guess i'm viewing it as glass half full in saying "Trump is a huckster and can't even keep his party politics straight; alternatively, the guy doesn't even believe what he says in that the Radical Left agenda is detrimental to the US when he's adopting those same policies."

And maybe I'm a Pollyanna (does that reference even land any more?) in believing that "people" are looking for a reason to vote for Trump.

Again, I'm not saying that the message is the policy itself but rather that RADICAL LEFTIST SOCIALISM isn't as radical as fox news and the right would have you believe.

And yes, the overall narrative should still be Orange Man Bad, I just think that holding the line of Orange Man Bad in this case is a missed opportunity.

It's also a good opportunity to get counter Trump's message that Dems are obstructionists. Trump signing those EOs are in direct opposition to how the Senate voted and that message needs to get out. Trump's been floating a lot of facial falsehoods on that front.

Like, why would Dems vote against a stimulus package? They wouldn't. Republicans are. Trump giving Republicans the micrometer thin cover by saying "hey, I signed this EO bc Dems are against it" needs to be countered by "no bro, we're for the things in that EO, except the Republicans in the Senate voted against it" instead of "that EO's unconstitutional"

edit: at the very least, point out that the EO is ineffective and does not deliver on what he's promising.

[pancakes3]

Like, I just pulled these headlines from my google news feed re: the EO.

Does Trump’s Executive Order Mean There’s No $1,200 Second Stimulus Check Coming?
Forbes

Trump's executive orders didn't include a second round of stimulus checks—here's why
CNBC

'The Five' claim executive order was a win for Trump, loss for Dems
Fox News

Trump's unemployment order is a huge, illegal power grab
Los Angeles Times

Trump’s executive actions are overreach. The next president will likely do worse.
The Washington Post

focus on the first two, not the latter 2.

[pancakes3]

it'd be nice if Pelosi came out and said this, instead of leaving it to an op/ed buried on bloomberg

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-08-10/which-parts-of-trump-s-covid-relief-executive-order-are-legal

[Ruzious]

it'd be nice if Pelosi came out and said this, instead of leaving it to an op/ed buried on bloomberg

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-08-10/which-parts-of-trump-s-covid-relief-executive-order-are-legal

You mean the part about it being unconstitutional - which you've criticized her for saying too many times?

[dobrojim]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trumps-inadvertent-tax-hike/2020/08/10/12457502-db00-11ea-809e-b8be57ba616e_story.html

Employers will become liable for paying it (when it comes due)
and it would then become income to the employee.

[dobrojim]

Dupe

[dckingsfan]

Except like everything with Trump it’s just the allusion that he’s doing something. He signed one executive order and couple of memorandums that don’t have any teeth.

Well, of course. I'm not saying that Trump is advancing GOOD policies - just that he's advancing DEM policies* (in whatever toothless manner that's befitting this administration).

The optics of this are huge. He's actively pushing for lib policies, and the opportunity to score political points, especially amongst independents is huge. Moreover, this could do a lot of heavy lifting in shifting the overton window. Getting bogged down in the weeds as to how effective his particular EO might be, is small-picture thinking.

I'm not saying the orange man isn't bad. I'm just saying that screeching it at every turn is ineffective messaging and at this stage of Democracy's death spiral, messaging is everything.

If you can effectively twist Trump's toothless EO into the Republican Party endorsing Lib policies and it (a) changes quite a few hearts and minds; and/or (b) pisses off R's more effectively than continuing to point out that orange man is in fact, bad.

Plus, a good chunk of Trumpers used to be solidly Blue voters - the union/blue collar crowd. Do whatever is necessary to get them to stop voting against their own interests.

*edit: I guess I did say "these are GOOD things." well, i clarified my point and i stand by it.

Eh, you two are saying the same thing(s). Trump floats out a bogus proposal. Trump takes credit. D's need to amplify that it is bogus and the beginning of the end of SS and Medicare.

GO TEFLON JOE!

Read on Twitter

[JWizmentality]

Yay its Kamala! Conservatives are going to go really disgusting with this. It will backfire.

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Ruzious]

It seemed to be down to Harris and Rice, and I think Biden made the right choice between them, because Rice's pros and cons were too similar to Biden's. He needed the diversity that Rice gives him. I think young voters particularly like this choice. And she's got a personality that will complement Biden's - adding more energy to the ticket. Not to mention - she's earned it.

[Zonkerbl]

well I think Biden squeezed all the drama he could out of that whole circus so good for him. It was all in good fun and I hope it gets people energized for the big fight in November.

Also have to start thinking about strategies for seizing military assets in California and New York in preparation for secession.

[Zonkerbl]

On Maddow's advice I try not to read opinion pieces, devoid as they are of actual news, but this one is a doozy:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/08/12/why-kamala-harris-has-conservatives-so-angry/?hpid=hp_save-opinions-float-right-4-0_opinion-card-a-right%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

"The Republican Party — whose best idea to deal with its deficit among minority voters is promoting the sad candidacy of Kanye West to divert a few Black votes from Biden..."

ouch man

[pancakes3]

::puts on TGW hat::

Copmela

[dobrojim]

Just curious if anyone here clicks on the survey ads. Many on their face seem
to be trying to coax conservatives to respond. Or maybe it's just me.
I notice on another venue I visit that it seems like ads there are
even more right wing.

For what it's worth I rarely if ever respond. I'm tempted on the
NRA one I just saw though to unload on them, so to speak.

[Ruzious]

How are there so many morons like this in power?

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/florida-sheriff-forbids-staff-visitors-164500089.html