Unfair race to the 8th/9th seed

[Rapcity_11]

I disagree. Starting this bubble, it was an uphill battle to get into the playoffs. People thought that at best, we'd have to go 2-0 in a play-in situation vs Grizzlies, and that was assuming we stayed at 9th seed ahead of I believe it was 3 teams that we were half a game ahead of. We were more likely to stay lottery and get the 14th pick than get into the 8th seed. If this were the regular season and we do bad, we get rewarded with a higher draft pick. If Blazers played like trash, we could have dropped down behind 4 teams and not got rewarded with the 10th pick. Portland's options were play well and make playoffs, play mediocre and get the worst pick of the teams entering the bubble in lottery position, or play the worst of all the teams and still get the worst pick of the teams entering the bubble in lottery position. Other teams like Pelicans and Spurs had the options of play well and make the playoffs, play mediocre and still get better picks than Portland, or play like trash and still get better picks than Portland. Just because Portland played well and most likely makes the playoffs by a slim margin does not take away the disadvantage as a franchise they started out with in the bubble. Some even theorized that this was part of the proposal that Portland didn't like leading to them voting against the bubble format.

The bolded is literally as fair as it can get. You can say that about every team battling for the 8 seed.

The bubble is to determine playoff teams, not to determine lottery order.

What is wildly unfair is 2 teams being tied in the standings, but one of them being ahead due to a tiny difference in winning %.

We clearly disagree. Those are the rules they established, but I don't believe they are fair. So a slight winning percentage difference determining playoff seeding is unfair, but if a team improves their record very clearly above Portland and still gets the better draft pick that is fair? That goes against how all regular seasons have gone forever. As it has always been, I believe it is fair to give the teams with the lower final seeding placements the higher picks. I get that the teams not playing are in fixed locations, but draft orders among those playing should still be impacted by their final record just as the playoff positioning is.

That would only make sense if the bottom 8 teams were involved. But they aren't, so it wouldn't be fair at all. The current solution isn't perfect, but it's miles better than your proposal.

You're looking at it through your Portland bias. You could say the exact same thing about the Wizards, or Spurs. Or literally every team battling for #8.

[phanman]

Just feel for PHX fans whose team may go 8-0 and tie-breakers don't get utilized (they win due to division record) with Portland because they have an extra game on their record.

Especially with Portland playing Brooklyn, and Memphis potentially getting a break with Giannis' headbutt to Milwaukee and overall disinterest in ending the season.

Actually, I believe the Blazers own the tie breaker with PHX. Division record is only the 3rd tie breaker if they are in the same division, which they are not. So it goes to the 4th tie breaker, which is conference record, which Portland has the better record. Grizzlies would also have tiebreaker over the Suns due to head to head records.

So if Portland, Memphis, and PHX win out tomorrow, then Portland is 8 and Memphis is 9? If either memphis and somehow the suns lose tomorrow, then Spurs are 9?

If both Portland and Memphis win they are in regardless of what PHX and SA do.

You are correct SA needs both Memphis and PHX to lose and win their final game.

Read on Twitter

[King4Day]

As a Suns fan, I can't be upset about any of it. Had Ayton not gotten suspended, there's a good chance the Suns are in this bubble just trying to improve seeding instead of fighting to get in. That and other things that happened during the season. Nothing you can do. Sleep in the bed you made.

[Myth]

The bolded is literally as fair as it can get. You can say that about every team battling for the 8 seed.

The bubble is to determine playoff teams, not to determine lottery order.

What is wildly unfair is 2 teams being tied in the standings, but one of them being ahead due to a tiny difference in winning %.

We clearly disagree. Those are the rules they established, but I don't believe they are fair. So a slight winning percentage difference determining playoff seeding is unfair, but if a team improves their record very clearly above Portland and still gets the better draft pick that is fair? That goes against how all regular seasons have gone forever. As it has always been, I believe it is fair to give the teams with the lower final seeding placements the higher picks. I get that the teams not playing are in fixed locations, but draft orders among those playing should still be impacted by their final record just as the playoff positioning is.

That would only make sense if the bottom 8 teams were involved. But they aren't, so it wouldn't be fair at all. The current solution isn't perfect, but it's miles better than your proposal.

You're looking at it through your Portland bias. You could say the exact same thing about the Wizards, or Spurs. Or literally every team battling for #8.

I'm looking at it through the lens of history of drafts. You are right though, it is also unfair if Spurs drop down and don't get a better pick. More reason to follow what I'm saying. And you say it only makes sense from a Portland bias. Maybe because Portland is the most screwed team in that scenario, because well, it was an unfair setup. So you acknowledge there is a point of view that screws Portland, but it is bias to acknowledge it? Also, how does it only make sense if the bottom teams were also involved? I'm saying they are locked into their current positions, so the only draft positions that would change are those still playing.

[Rapcity_11]

As a Suns fan, I can't be upset about any of it. Had Ayton not gotten suspended, there's a good chance the Suns are in this bubble just trying to improve seeding instead of fighting to get in. That and other things that happened during the season. Nothing you can do. Sleep in the bed you made.

The Suns went 10-15 in the 25 suspension games. They went 11-18 in the next 29 games Ayton played.

So I doubt that.

[Myth]

We clearly disagree. Those are the rules they established, but I don't believe they are fair. So a slight winning percentage difference determining playoff seeding is unfair, but if a team improves their record very clearly above Portland and still gets the better draft pick that is fair? That goes against how all regular seasons have gone forever. As it has always been, I believe it is fair to give the teams with the lower final seeding placements the higher picks. I get that the teams not playing are in fixed locations, but draft orders among those playing should still be impacted by their final record just as the playoff positioning is.

That would only make sense if the bottom 8 teams were involved. But they aren't, so it wouldn't be fair at all. The current solution isn't perfect, but it's miles better than your proposal.

You're looking at it through your Portland bias. You could say the exact same thing about the Wizards, or Spurs. Or literally every team battling for #8.

I'm looking at it through the lens of history of drafts. You are right though, it is also unfair if Spurs drop down and don't get a better pick. More reason to follow what I'm saying. And you say it only makes sense from a Portland bias. Maybe because Portland is the most screwed team in that scenario, because well, it was an unfair setup. So you acknowledge there is a point of view that screws Portland, but it is bias to acknowledge it? Also, how does it only make sense if the bottom teams were also involved? I'm saying they are locked into their current positions, so the only draft positions that would change are those still playing.

Heres another, simpler way of looking at how Portland's extra game was a double edged sword:

That extra game (creating a half game lead) from before the bubble gave Portland a very slight edge to get into the playoffs.

But that extra game also guaranteed that Portland gets a lower draft pick than multiple teams.

But yes, go on about how unfair this was to every team except for Portland.

[Rapcity_11]

We clearly disagree. Those are the rules they established, but I don't believe they are fair. So a slight winning percentage difference determining playoff seeding is unfair, but if a team improves their record very clearly above Portland and still gets the better draft pick that is fair? That goes against how all regular seasons have gone forever. As it has always been, I believe it is fair to give the teams with the lower final seeding placements the higher picks. I get that the teams not playing are in fixed locations, but draft orders among those playing should still be impacted by their final record just as the playoff positioning is.

That would only make sense if the bottom 8 teams were involved. But they aren't, so it wouldn't be fair at all. The current solution isn't perfect, but it's miles better than your proposal.

You're looking at it through your Portland bias. You could say the exact same thing about the Wizards, or Spurs. Or literally every team battling for #8.

I'm looking at it through the lens of history of drafts. You are right though, it is also unfair if Spurs drop down and don't get a better pick. More reason to follow what I'm saying. And you say it only makes sense from a Portland bias. Maybe because Portland is the most screwed team in that scenario, because well, it was an unfair setup. So you acknowledge there is a point of view that screws Portland, but it is bias to acknowledge it? Also, how does it only make sense if the bottom teams were also involved? I'm saying they are locked into their current positions, so the only draft positions that would change are those still playing.

If it's the same degree of fair/unfair for everyone then it isn't actually unfair....that's the point.

There is no scenario in which Portland gets screwed. Because as I've pointed out, EVERY team could theoretically lose a bunch of games but not improve draft position. It's not unique to Portland, therefore nobody is getting screwed.

Are the Wizards getting screwed right now?

[Myth]

That would only make sense if the bottom 8 teams were involved. But they aren't, so it wouldn't be fair at all. The current solution isn't perfect, but it's miles better than your proposal.

You're looking at it through your Portland bias. You could say the exact same thing about the Wizards, or Spurs. Or literally every team battling for #8.

I'm looking at it through the lens of history of drafts. You are right though, it is also unfair if Spurs drop down and don't get a better pick. More reason to follow what I'm saying. And you say it only makes sense from a Portland bias. Maybe because Portland is the most screwed team in that scenario, because well, it was an unfair setup. So you acknowledge there is a point of view that screws Portland, but it is bias to acknowledge it? Also, how does it only make sense if the bottom teams were also involved? I'm saying they are locked into their current positions, so the only draft positions that would change are those still playing.

If it's the same degree of fair/unfair for everyone then it isn't actually unfair....that's the point.

There is no scenario in which Portland gets screwed. Because as I've pointed out, EVERY team could theoretically lose a bunch of games but not improve draft position. It's not unique to Portland, therefore nobody is getting screwed.

Are the Wizards getting screwed right now?

If the bold is true, then I don't know why you started debating my original post, because that was the whole point of the post.

As for the Wizards comment, I feel like your mention of it also missed completely what I have stated multiple times. Go back and read what I have said about changing records among teams in the bubble.

[LightTheBeam]

Honestly, they should change it to a 4 team bracket if all 4 are within a half game of each other.

8v11
9v10

Winner vs Winner

Would still be the same 2 day timeline they scheduled and only one extra game

Somebody get this man a meeting with Silver asap

[Rapcity_11]

That would only make sense if the bottom 8 teams were involved. But they aren't, so it wouldn't be fair at all. The current solution isn't perfect, but it's miles better than your proposal.

You're looking at it through your Portland bias. You could say the exact same thing about the Wizards, or Spurs. Or literally every team battling for #8.

I'm looking at it through the lens of history of drafts. You are right though, it is also unfair if Spurs drop down and don't get a better pick. More reason to follow what I'm saying. And you say it only makes sense from a Portland bias. Maybe because Portland is the most screwed team in that scenario, because well, it was an unfair setup. So you acknowledge there is a point of view that screws Portland, but it is bias to acknowledge it? Also, how does it only make sense if the bottom teams were also involved? I'm saying they are locked into their current positions, so the only draft positions that would change are those still playing.

Heres another, simpler way of looking at how Portland's extra game was a double edged sword:

That extra game (creating a half game lead) from before the bubble gave Portland a very slight edge to get into the playoffs.

But that extra game also guaranteed that Portland gets a lower draft pick than multiple teams.

But yes, go on about how unfair this was to every team except for Portland.

If anything, the Pelicans were the ones to get screwed. Since they played 2 less games than Portland and would have lost the tie-breaker due to a ludicrously small difference in win%. Same thing with the Spurs vs. the Grizz/Suns.

It's more than a slight edge.

And it guarantees lower lottery odds, not a lower draft pick.

[AKBlazerFan]

If you record is below .500 (like every team battling for the 8th spot), is playing more games actually an advantage...?

[SMTBSI]

There's just no way you're going to convince me that the team that won a lower percentage of their games is being treated unfairly.

Additionally, everyone knew the bubble was not a perfect solution. There was no perfect solution. They found a reasonable solution in order to give us our season back, and everyone agreed it was reasonable enough. If we insisted on a perfect solution, the outcome would have been no season.

The league did the best they could under the circumstances, and it's worked out pretty well. Just be grateful we have basketball.

[Roy The Natural]

No, fairly small changes in lottery odds don't nearly balance out with the win% issue. Not even close.

I disagree. Starting this bubble, it was an uphill battle to get into the playoffs. People thought that at best, we'd have to go 2-0 in a play-in situation vs Grizzlies, and that was assuming we stayed at 9th seed ahead of I believe it was 3 teams that we were half a game ahead of. We were more likely to stay lottery and get the 14th pick than get into the 8th seed. If this were the regular season and we do bad, we get rewarded with a higher draft pick. If Blazers played like trash, we could have dropped down behind 4 teams and not got rewarded with the 10th pick. Portland's options were play well and make playoffs, play mediocre and get the worst pick of the teams entering the bubble in lottery position, or play the worst of all the teams and still get the worst pick of the teams entering the bubble in lottery position. Other teams like Pelicans and Spurs had the options of play well and make the playoffs, play mediocre and still get better picks than Portland, or play like trash and still get better picks than Portland. Just because Portland played well and most likely makes the playoffs by a slim margin does not take away the disadvantage as a franchise they started out with in the bubble. Some even theorized that this was part of the proposal that Portland didn't like leading to them voting against the bubble format.

The bolded is literally as fair as it can get. You can say that about every team battling for the 8 seed.

The bubble is to determine playoff teams, not to determine lottery order.

What is wildly unfair is 2 teams being tied in the standings, but one of them being ahead due to a tiny difference in winning %.

But they're not tied in the standings though.... Sooooooo..... You're wrong.

[Rapcity_11]

I'm looking at it through the lens of history of drafts. You are right though, it is also unfair if Spurs drop down and don't get a better pick. More reason to follow what I'm saying. And you say it only makes sense from a Portland bias. Maybe because Portland is the most screwed team in that scenario, because well, it was an unfair setup. So you acknowledge there is a point of view that screws Portland, but it is bias to acknowledge it? Also, how does it only make sense if the bottom teams were also involved? I'm saying they are locked into their current positions, so the only draft positions that would change are those still playing.

If it's the same degree of fair/unfair for everyone then it isn't actually unfair....that's the point.

There is no scenario in which Portland gets screwed. Because as I've pointed out, EVERY team could theoretically lose a bunch of games but not improve draft position. It's not unique to Portland, therefore nobody is getting screwed.

Are the Wizards getting screwed right now?

If the bold is true, then I don't know why you started debating my original post, because that was the whole point of the post.

As for the Wizards comment, I feel like your mention of it also missed completely what I have stated multiple times. Go back and read what I have said about changing records among teams in the bubble.

Uh, because you're making ridiculous claims that it's unfair for the Blazers?

[Rapcity_11]

I disagree. Starting this bubble, it was an uphill battle to get into the playoffs. People thought that at best, we'd have to go 2-0 in a play-in situation vs Grizzlies, and that was assuming we stayed at 9th seed ahead of I believe it was 3 teams that we were half a game ahead of. We were more likely to stay lottery and get the 14th pick than get into the 8th seed. If this were the regular season and we do bad, we get rewarded with a higher draft pick. If Blazers played like trash, we could have dropped down behind 4 teams and not got rewarded with the 10th pick. Portland's options were play well and make playoffs, play mediocre and get the worst pick of the teams entering the bubble in lottery position, or play the worst of all the teams and still get the worst pick of the teams entering the bubble in lottery position. Other teams like Pelicans and Spurs had the options of play well and make the playoffs, play mediocre and still get better picks than Portland, or play like trash and still get better picks than Portland. Just because Portland played well and most likely makes the playoffs by a slim margin does not take away the disadvantage as a franchise they started out with in the bubble. Some even theorized that this was part of the proposal that Portland didn't like leading to them voting against the bubble format.

The bolded is literally as fair as it can get. You can say that about every team battling for the 8 seed.

The bubble is to determine playoff teams, not to determine lottery order.

What is wildly unfair is 2 teams being tied in the standings, but one of them being ahead due to a tiny difference in winning %.

But they're not tied in the standings though.... Sooooooo..... You're wrong.

You really think it's more fair to put one team ahead by winning %, when a team is 35-39 vs 34-38? Come on.

[Roy The Natural]

The bolded is literally as fair as it can get. You can say that about every team battling for the 8 seed.

The bubble is to determine playoff teams, not to determine lottery order.

What is wildly unfair is 2 teams being tied in the standings, but one of them being ahead due to a tiny difference in winning %.

But they're not tied in the standings though.... Sooooooo..... You're wrong.

You really think it's more fair to put one team ahead by winning %, when a team is 35-39 vs 34-38? Come on.

It's not fair to **** their lottery position either come on....

[Rapcity_11]

But they're not tied in the standings though.... Sooooooo..... You're wrong.

You really think it's more fair to put one team ahead by winning %, when a team is 35-39 vs 34-38? Come on.

It's not fair to **** their lottery position either come on....

Agreed. Now answer the question...

[Myth]

I'm looking at it through the lens of history of drafts. You are right though, it is also unfair if Spurs drop down and don't get a better pick. More reason to follow what I'm saying. And you say it only makes sense from a Portland bias. Maybe because Portland is the most screwed team in that scenario, because well, it was an unfair setup. So you acknowledge there is a point of view that screws Portland, but it is bias to acknowledge it? Also, how does it only make sense if the bottom teams were also involved? I'm saying they are locked into their current positions, so the only draft positions that would change are those still playing.

Heres another, simpler way of looking at how Portland's extra game was a double edged sword:

That extra game (creating a half game lead) from before the bubble gave Portland a very slight edge to get into the playoffs.

But that extra game also guaranteed that Portland gets a lower draft pick than multiple teams.

But yes, go on about how unfair this was to every team except for Portland.

If anything, the Pelicans were the ones to get screwed. Since they played 2 less games than Portland and would have lost the tie-breaker due to a ludicrously small difference in win%. Same thing with the Spurs vs. the Grizz/Suns.

It's more than a slight edge.

And it guarantees lower lottery odds, not a lower draft pick.

You are technically right that if we are one of the lottery winners, we would have a better draft pick. But aside from that, it absolutely guarantees we have a worse pick than multiple teams. If we went 0-8, our draft pick would have been either 13th (if Memphis missed the playoffs) or 14th (if Memphis made playoffs), while the other west bubble teams would have had picks 10-12 (or 10-13) despite having worse records.

And those 2 less games would have rewarded Pelicans with a better draft pick even if they got up to 9th. But yes, technically Pelicans will get screwed out of a draft pick position based on them going down in the standings, which also goes to my original point (which Portland was the example I used, not the sole purpose of my original post) about there being advantages and disadvantages in each direction.

I guess slight edge is subjective. I usually consider tie breakers a slight edge over the course of a season, and this is pretty close to a tie breaker (which wasn't just handed to Portland, they did have to actually win an extra game rather than lose the extra game).

[Roy The Natural]

You really think it's more fair to put one team ahead by winning %, when a team is 35-39 vs 34-38? Come on.

It's not fair to **** their lottery position either come on....

Agreed. Now answer the question...

I think every single teams sans Portland agreed to this format, so the question of fairness is irrelevant. Regardless of whether the outcome benefits Portland or not, they're THE ONLY franchise with the right to complain because they're the only ones who didn't agree.

[PharmD]

Just curious and haven't checked, but how is the difficulty of remaining schedule for each team in the Playoff race? I remember Portland heading to the bubble with an incredibly difficult schedule, but haven't compared to the other teams.

Memphix and Phoenix also had tough schedules. New Orleans was the only team the league clearly rigged the schedule for and they somehow **** it up.

The schedule was literally based on the teams actual schedule. How the **** was it rigged?

Team A has 8 games vs. top 10 teams remaining, plus the knicks twice, the wolves twice, the warriors twice, and the cavs twice.

Team B has 16 games vs bubble teams remaining

They will both play a new schedule based on "the actual schedule", but Team A gets screwed because they miss out on the free wins against awful teams. Team B already got to play those games.