Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread

[Ruzious]

I think adding another half court scorer would help take pressure off of giannis and limit the wall. Riller has great handles and a great first step and can shoot from anywhere.

After about four minutes of a video, he seems like a guy that would watch Kyrie play, see him do a move and then go out in the driveway or gym and make his own version of it.

Lol, I can see that, too. To me, he's the next Lou Williams.

I hear there's a chance some teams are in bad financial shape and are considering selling late firsts - though I haven't heard any specific teams. I'd love to see the Bucks take advantage and buy one. Honestly, i'd see that as a way to save money - because the cost to buy doesn't count towards the cap or lux tax, and you get a talented player on a rookie contract.

[tski1972]

Didn’t expect the Pacers to go 5-2 in the bubble without Sabonis, cost us a couple draft spots most likely.

[Badgerlander]

I think adding another half court scorer would help take pressure off of giannis and limit the wall. Riller has great handles and a great first step and can shoot from anywhere.

After about four minutes of a video, he seems like a guy that would watch Kyrie play, see him do a move and then go out in the driveway or gym and make his own version of it.

Lol, I can see that, too. To me, he's the next Lou Williams.

I hear there's a chance some teams are in bad financial shape and are considering selling late firsts - though I haven't heard any specific teams. I'd love to see the Bucks take advantage and buy one. Honestly, i'd see that as a way to save money - because the cost to buy doesn't count towards the cap or lux tax, and you get a talented player on a rookie contract.

I’d love to grab Riller and Bane. Hell I wouldn’t even mind Tillie as an Ersan replacement late first/early second, and then Lamine Diane too lol. They would all be on rookie deals until after Bledsoe, Hill, and BLopez deals expire.

[coolhandluke121]

I hear there's a chance some teams are in bad financial shape and are considering selling late firsts - though I haven't heard any specific teams. I'd love to see the Bucks take advantage and buy one.

Considering the Bucks are by far the smallest market of all the teams already essentially in the luxury tax next year, assuming the threshold goes down as expected, it seems much more likely that the Bucks are among the teams willing to sell their pick. They showed a strong aversion to paying the tax even under the best of circumstances, so what can we expect after the revenue crash from Covid-19?

It will be funny/sad when the Bucks use the pick to unload DJ's salary for a 2nd-rounder. However, that's what contending teams do - especially when they're trying to convince the MVP that they're doing everything they can to win a title NOW so he will re-sign.

[coolhandluke121]

Didn’t expect the Pacers to go 5-2 in the bubble without Sabonis, cost us a couple draft spots most likely.

Oladipo having almost 4 extra months to heal completely more than offsets losing Sabonis IMO. Sabonis is plenty good, but not nearly as dynamic and impactful as a healthy Oladipo.

[Ruzious]

I hear there's a chance some teams are in bad financial shape and are considering selling late firsts - though I haven't heard any specific teams. I'd love to see the Bucks take advantage and buy one.

Considering the Bucks are by far the smallest market of all the teams already essentially in the luxury tax next year, assuming the threshold goes down as expected, it seems much more likely that the Bucks are among the teams willing to sell their pick. They showed a strong aversion to paying the tax even under the best of circumstances, so what can we expect after the revenue crash from Covid-19?

Except, here's the rest of my post:

Honestly, i'd see that as a way to save money - because the cost to buy doesn't count towards the cap or lux tax, and you get a talented player on a rookie contract.

[coolhandluke121]

I hear there's a chance some teams are in bad financial shape and are considering selling late firsts - though I haven't heard any specific teams. I'd love to see the Bucks take advantage and buy one.

Considering the Bucks are by far the smallest market of all the teams already essentially in the luxury tax next year, assuming the threshold goes down as expected, it seems much more likely that the Bucks are among the teams willing to sell their pick. They showed a strong aversion to paying the tax even under the best of circumstances, so what can we expect after the revenue crash from Covid-19?

Except, here's the rest of my post:

Honestly, i'd see that as a way to save money - because the cost to buy doesn't count towards the cap or lux tax, and you get a talented player on a rookie contract.

No, I saw that. The Bucks are already basically locked into paying the tax with all their guaranteed contracts. What does buying a pick do to get them under the tax threshold? It's not like they can cut someone with a guaranteed contract to save money. You can't just say you're paying the pick instead of paying the guy with a guaranteed salary. Besides, a first-round pick usually makes more than a minimum, and sometimes a lot more. Even DJ will be making over $4.5m next year, as a former mid first-rounder.

Unless there's some shocking change to the revenue outlook, even the cap holds on minimum contracts for empty roster spots will put them into the tax, and possibly well into the tax depending on how much the threshold gets lowered in this economy. It's far more likely that a small-market tax team like the Bucks, who also have to worry about being able to offer Giannis the supermax in a year, would use a middling asset like the Indy pick to clear a salary like DJ and be able to sign veterans like Marvin to minimum contracts to help win a title next year while trying not to pay too much luxury tax.

[Ruzious]

Considering the Bucks are by far the smallest market of all the teams already essentially in the luxury tax next year, assuming the threshold goes down as expected, it seems much more likely that the Bucks are among the teams willing to sell their pick. They showed a strong aversion to paying the tax even under the best of circumstances, so what can we expect after the revenue crash from Covid-19?

Except, here's the rest of my post:

Honestly, i'd see that as a way to save money - because the cost to buy doesn't count towards the cap or lux tax, and you get a talented player on a rookie contract.

No, I saw that. The Bucks are already basically locked into paying the tax with all their guaranteed contracts. What does buying a pick do to get them under the tax threshold? It's not like they can cut someone with a guaranteed contract to save money. You can't just say you're paying the pick instead of paying the guy with a guaranteed salary. Besides, a first-round pick usually makes more than a minimum, and sometimes a lot more. Even DJ will be making over $4.5m next year, as a former mid first-rounder.

Unless there's some shocking change to the revenue outlook, even the cap holds on minimum contracts for empty roster spots will put them into the tax, and possibly well into the tax depending on how much the threshold gets lowered in this economy. It's far more likely that a small-market tax team like the Bucks, who also have to worry about being able to offer Giannis the supermax in a year, would use a middling asset like the Indy pick to clear a salary like DJ and be able to sign veterans like Marvin to minimum contracts to help win a title next year while trying not to pay too much luxury tax.

Firstly, DJ was a very bad pick and shouldn't be on the roster.

If they pick someone like Jalen Smith, that gives them some depth up front allowing them to release Ilyasova. That saves them money and gives them cheap depth for an additional 3 seasons.

[coolhandluke121]

Firstly, DJ was a very bad pick and shouldn't be on the roster.

If they pick someone like Jalen Smith, that gives them some depth up front allowing them to release Ilyasova. That saves them money and gives them cheap depth for an additional 3 seasons.

DJ is on the roster and they've already picked up his option, guaranteeing his salary next season. Nobody is likely to take him off our hands in this market without getting an asset for their trouble. They're going to have to cut Ersan anyway, and they'll probably still be paying the tax with minimum salary cap holds on empty roster spots. Obviously there's still a ton of uncertainty with regard to revenue and therefore the salary cap/tax threshold, but the fact is that the Bucks are in the top-5 of the NBA for guaranteed salary next season and everyone else on that list is in a huge market.

Buying another pick is probably out of the question. There's no way you can argue that it saves as much money as signing veteran ring-chasers to minimum deals, and it's very unlikely to help the team as much in the short term, which is their focus. DDV made basically as much in his rookie year as Matthews is making this year, and you'd have to factor in the cost of the pick as well. A rookie also doesn't do as much to convince Giannis to extend.

They'd be much better off making sure they can retain Pat C and Marvin, both of whom Giannis seems to like, and the financial reality of that in these times probably makes it hard to even keep the Indy pick, let alone buy another one. I just don't see how anyone could read "teams are interested in selling picks to mitigate losses and cut salary" and not realize the Bucks are literally the #1A prime candidate to be the subject of those rumors. Every single circumstance of their market, their payroll, their win-now situation, their roster, and Giannis's eligibility for an extension points in that direction.

I would brace yourself for the possibility that the Bucks will sell or trade the pick for financial relief. That way you can be pleasantly surprised if they use it.

[Ruzious]

Firstly, DJ was a very bad pick and shouldn't be on the roster.

If they pick someone like Jalen Smith, that gives them some depth up front allowing them to release Ilyasova. That saves them money and gives them cheap depth for an additional 3 seasons.

DJ is on the roster and they've already picked up his option, guaranteeing his salary next season. Nobody is likely to take him off our hands in this market without getting an asset for their trouble. They're going to have to cut Ersan anyway, and they'll probably still be paying the tax with minimum salary cap holds on empty roster spots. Obviously there's still a ton of uncertainty with regard to revenue and therefore the salary cap/tax threshold, but the fact is that the Bucks are in the top-5 of the NBA for guaranteed salary next season and everyone else on that list is in a huge market.

Buying another pick is probably out of the question. There's no way you can argue that it saves as much money as signing veteran ring-chasers to minimum deals, and it's very unlikely to help the team as much in the short term, which is their focus. DDV made basically as much in his rookie year as Matthews is making this year, and you'd have to factor in the cost of the pick as well. A rookie also doesn't do as much to convince Giannis to extend.

They'd be much better off making sure they can retain Pat C and Marvin, both of whom Giannis seems to like, and the financial reality of that in these times probably makes it hard to even keep the Indy pick, let alone buy another one. I just don't see how anyone could read "teams are interested in selling picks to mitigate losses and cut salary" and not realize the Bucks are literally the #1A prime candidate to be the subject of those rumors. Every single circumstance of their market, their payroll, their win-now situation, their roster, and Giannis's eligibility for an extension points in that direction.

I would brace yourself for the possibility that the Bucks will sell or trade the pick for financial relief. That way you can be pleasantly surprised if they use it.

Selling the pick would be very stupid for a whole host of reasons - both long-term and short.

[coolhandluke121]

Selling the pick would be very stupid for a whole host of reasons - both long-term and short.

I'm not saying I want it to happen and I would hate it too, but we're fans and the luxury tax is not our problem. We won't write the checks and it's not our decision.

If you think of the main reasons teams sell picks (urgency to win now and financial strain), the Bucks arguably lead the entire NBA in both categories.

[Ruzious]

Selling the pick would be very stupid for a whole host of reasons - both long-term and short.

I'm not saying I want it to happen and I would hate it too, but we're fans and the luxury tax is not our problem. We won't write the checks and it's not our decision.

If you think of the main reasons teams sell picks (urgency to win now and financial strain), the Bucks arguably lead the entire NBA in both categories.

The Bucks are trying to win championships now and in the future. Selling a pick makes absolutely no sense for them - again... short-term and long-term.

[coolhandluke121]

The Bucks are trying to win championships now and in the future. Selling a pick makes absolutely no sense for them - again... short-term and long-term.

Does it make sense for any team to be selling picks to save money? Of course the fans don't want it, but there's arguably not a single team that fits the bill more than the Bucks. They are the oldest team in the NBA, have had the best record two years in a row, haven't won a title in nearly 50 years, have arguably the most disproportionate payroll relative to market in the entire NBA, and are trying to persuade what will soon be the youngest repeat MVP ever to stay in one of the historically least desirable markets in the NBA, if not all of sports.

If the Bucks aren't one of the teams considering it, then who exactly would be? I don't understand how saying it would be stupid over and over again makes you feel better about the likelihood of it happening. It certainly doesn't make me feel any less nervous about it.

And you seem to think I'm out here trying to persuade Horst to do it. Let me be clear once again: I do not want it to happen, but that has nothing to do with whether I think it could happen.

[Ruzious]

The Bucks are trying to win championships now and in the future. Selling a pick makes absolutely no sense for them - again... short-term and long-term.

Does it make sense for any team to be selling picks to save money? Of course the fans don't want it, but there's arguably not a single team that fits the bill more than the Bucks. They are the oldest team in the NBA, have had the best record two years in a row, haven't won a title in nearly 50 years, have arguably the most disproportionate payroll relative to market in the entire NBA, and are trying to persuade what will soon be the youngest repeat MVP ever to stay in one of the historically least desirable markets in the NBA, if not all of sports.

If the Bucks aren't one of the teams considering it, then who exactly would be? I don't understand how saying it would be stupid over and over again makes you feel better about the likelihood of it happening. It certainly doesn't make me feel any less nervous about it.

And you seem to think I'm out here trying to persuade Horst to do it. Let me be clear once again: I do not want it to happen, but that has nothing to do with whether I think it could happen.

If you're not for selling the pick, then why do you keep arguing with me about it???

[coolhandluke121]

If you're not for selling the pick, then why do you keep arguing with me about it???

This is extremely illogical. People are saying that teams are thinking of selling their picks to save money, and I'm saying the Bucks are likely to be one of those teams. That has nothing to do with whether I want to.

This kind of b.s. happens all the time here. I don't understand it. If I say I think a bad storm is going to knock out power, does that mean I want it to happen? Frankly as a moderator I think you should be above that kind of debate tactic.

[giannis and 1]

Would be **** if we got rid of this pick but does it really take a 1st to get rid of Wilson's salary? The guy's on a rookie contract how much could he possibly be making?

[Ruzious]

If you're not for selling the pick, then why do you keep arguing with me about it???

This is extremely illogical. People are saying that teams are thinking of selling their picks to save money, and I'm saying the Bucks are likely to be one of those teams. That has nothing to do with whether I want to.

This kind of b.s. happens all the time here. I don't understand it. If I say I think a bad storm is going to knock out power, does that mean I want it to happen? Frankly as a moderator I think you should be above that kind of debate tactic.

I'm not a moderator in this forum, and I don't appreciate you saying I'm not behaving like a moderator should. We're obviously talking past each other, so it's time to end this discussion.

[LuessiT]

Would be **** if we got rid of this pick but does it really take a 1st to get rid of Wilson's salary? The guy's on a rookie contract how much could he possibly be making?

He makes 4.5m next year. I doubt any team is looking to take on 4.5m of dead salary for seconds. Wether DJ is treated as dead salary by other teams is another matter.

[coolhandluke121]

Would be **** if we got rid of this pick but does it really take a 1st to get rid of Wilson's salary? The guy's on a rookie contract how much could he possibly be making?

$4.5m, which is a lot when you're talking about a much lower than expected tax threshold. And it also means he would be the salary that would put a lot of other teams in the tax, so fewer teams are going to be willing to take on his salary.

If they add an emergency amnesty clause, that would make a big difference... but the Bucks will still have issues if they want to stay out of the luxury tax, which I'm sure they do.

[RiotPunch]

I think Detroit could be uniquely willing to take on Deej. Not sure if this would be enough of a haul for Weaver for Rose/Svi, but:

MKE out: DJ Wilson, IND '20 1st
MKE in: Svi Mykhailiuk, Talen Horton-Tucker

DET out: Derrick Rose, Svi Mykhailiuk
DET in: Quinn Cook, DJ Wilson, LAL '20 1st, IND '20 1st

LAL out: Quinn Cook, Talen Horton-Tucker, LAL '20 1st
LAL in: Derrick Rose

I think two 1sts is about as good as they're gonna get for two guys about to be up for new contracts.