2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes

[BobbieL]

No to Kaminsky, you can always pick up Bender for the vet min and he at least plays defense.

Draft Toppin, bring back Baynes and Saric, and keep Payne and you are all set.

How do we get Toppin at 10 - isn't he more highly ranked

[bigfoot]

If we keep Baynes I will be surprised if we keep Frank, especially if we are already over the cap. $5 million is still $5 million. Though if we don't keep Saric I could see maybe keeping him unless we lose both Saric and Baynes and then have enough cap space to pursue a bigger name like Gallinari or Millsap.

The problem is you have to waive Frank before the free agency period and don't know if you can resign Baynes. It would be a risk to waive him and then lose both our spare big guys.

I don't think it would be that big of a risk to let Frank go. It's just a team option. We wouldn't waive him. He just becomes a free agent.

I think it would be dumb to pick up the option..what happens if two teams way overpay Saric and Baynes? Then we just needlessly eat into our cap space. Frank is an exception type signing. Not a guy you sign for $5 million when you have $20 million in cap space.

We don't have $20M unless you waive Saric, Baynes, Carter, Okobo, Diallo, and Frank and renounce the MLE and biannual exception. Then you can't go over the salary cap meaning you have to find five players for $20M. There is no MLE or biannual to use.

If you give Saric the qualifying offer and waive Baynes, Carter, Okobo, Diallo, and Frank and renounce the MLE and biannual exception we will have $11M in cap space to sign four other players. There is no MLE or biannual to use.

We are not going to have $20M in cap space. We are not waiving players because we lose their bird rights to exceed the cap and we lose the MLE and biannual exception.

Sure we can decline the offer on Frank and he becomes a UFA. We would still have bird rights to resign him and be over the cap. But if Baynes signs with someone else and Frank is ticked about his option being declined, he could take an offer from another team. We lose both our backup bigs. Then we are searching for two bigs using our MLE. Alternatively, you opt-in on Frank and if Baynes leaves you have the full MLE to find a replacement big. If Baynes stays, our big man rotation would be the same so then we use the full MLE to find another guard or wing.

[bwgood77]

The problem is you have to waive Frank before the free agency period and don't know if you can resign Baynes. It would be a risk to waive him and then lose both our spare big guys.

I don't think it would be that big of a risk to let Frank go. It's just a team option. We wouldn't waive him. He just becomes a free agent.

I think it would be dumb to pick up the option..what happens if two teams way overpay Saric and Baynes? Then we just needlessly eat into our cap space. Frank is an exception type signing. Not a guy you sign for $5 million when you have $20 million in cap space.

We don't have $20M unless you waive Saric, Baynes, Carter, Okobo, Diallo, and Frank and renounce the MLE and biannual exception. Then you can't go over the salary cap meaning you have to find five players for $20M. There is no MLE or biannual to use.

If you give Saric the qualifying offer and waive Baynes, Carter, Okobo, Diallo, and Frank and renounce the MLE and biannual exception we will have $11M in cap space to sign four other players. There is no MLE or biannual to use.

We are not going to have $20M in cap space. We are not waiving players because we lose their bird rights to exceed the cap and we lose the MLE and biannual exception.

Sure we can decline the offer on Frank and he becomes a UFA. We would still have bird rights to resign him and be over the cap. But if Baynes signs with someone else and Frank is ticked about his option being declined, he could take an offer from another team. We lose both our backup bigs. Then we are searching for two bigs using our MLE. Alternatively, you opt-in on Frank and if Baynes leaves you have the full MLE to find a replacement big. If Baynes stays, our big man rotation would be the same so then we use the full MLE to find another guard or wing.

You're basically reiterating my point but at the same time I am not sure what you meant. If we extend Saric the QO and another team gives him a big offer we do not match, I don't think his cap hold stays on our books. If Baynes goes elsewhere due to a big offer I don't think the cap holds stay on our books. We don't have to waive Okobo..he has a team option we very likely won't pick up. I would be surprised if we don't renounce Diallo.

My point is if we keep Dario and Baynes and Carter/Payne we are probably already an over the cap team so I don't think we pay $5 to Frank.

If those guys leave, regardless of whether we keep Carter and Payne, we will have cap space. You don't really renounce the MLE if you are under the cap because it is not available if you are under the cap. You basically just have your cap space. So say we haev $15 or whatever. I doubt we spend $5 of that on Frank.

Either way, I don't see us keeping Frank. The only potential might be if we only keep one of Saric and Baynes, and then keep Carter and Payne, and we are like $4 million under the cap. I think then we would pick up Frank's option to put us over the cap to give us the ability to use the full MLE.

[Saberestar]

What I know now is that I prefer Saric over Baynes. IF James Jones is thinking about retaining only one of them because of money/roles I would love to bring back Saric because of his versatility, passing, ball handling and toughness on both ends. He is younger and more durable than Baynes too.

Not sure about Kaminsky. I think he is a decent bench player, IDK if we can sign someone better than him for $5M. Diallo is worse for sure, so he is not an option as a replacement.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Should be noted with Frank I'm pretty sure they need to decide on his option BEFORE free agency starts. So it's not like they can wait and see what happens with Dario and Baynes first.

I highly doubt they pick it up. You can find an equivalent type player (or even resign Frank) later on in FA for the league minimum.

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[Saberestar]

No to Kaminsky, you can always pick up Bender for the vet min and he at least plays defense.

Draft Toppin, bring back Baynes and Saric, and keep Payne and you are all set.

What about Jevon Carter?

[bwgood77]

What I know now is that I prefer Saric over Baynes. IF James Jones is thinking about retaining only one of them because of money/roles I would love to bring back Saric because of his versatility, passing, ball handling and toughness on both ends. He is younger and more durable than Baynes too.

Not sure about Kaminsky. I think he is a decent bench player, IDK if we can sign someone better than him for $5M. Diallo is worse for sure, so he is not an option as a replacement.

Saric was nice in the bubble but I wasn't that high on him for much of the regular season. It's tough. Ayton plays so much differently when Baynes is active and playing as well. He like really rubs off on him. Ayton was like a different player here. I know that's on Ayton but I think Baynes really helped Ayton grow a lot this season but it didn't stick in the bubble while Baynes has been out. I think him just watching Baynes in the game and how he is directing things, talking, etc, really rubs off on Ayton during games...and helps him with matchups.

Ultimately, I think we will probably try and keep both if they are reasonable, given our cap situation and the weak FA class. But Baynes likely will have many more suitors and is probably more likely thinking about leaving.

[bwgood77]

Should be noted with Frank I'm pretty sure they need to decide on his option BEFORE free agency starts. So it's not like they can wait and see what happens with Dario and Baynes first.

I highly doubt they pick it up. You can find an equivalent type player (or even resign Frank) later on in FA for the league minimum.

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How early? Before people can start talking? It seems people already have a good idea about how a lot of the things will play out by the time FA typically officially opens.

Would this not happen around the time we'd have to decide on whether we are renouncing other guys?

[WeekapaugGroove]

Should be noted with Frank I'm pretty sure they need to decide on his option BEFORE free agency starts. So it's not like they can wait and see what happens with Dario and Baynes first.

I highly doubt they pick it up. You can find an equivalent type player (or even resign Frank) later on in FA for the league minimum.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

How early? Before people can start talking? It seems people already have a good idea about how a lot of the things will play out by the time FA typically officially opens.

Would this not happen around the time we'd have to decide on whether we are renouncing other guys?

They typically make the decision date a couple days before 7/1 when guys can start talking to teams. It's so the player gets a chance to get into FA and land someplace else if they aren't being brought back.

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[bwgood77]

Should be noted with Frank I'm pretty sure they need to decide on his option BEFORE free agency starts. So it's not like they can wait and see what happens with Dario and Baynes first.

I highly doubt they pick it up. You can find an equivalent type player (or even resign Frank) later on in FA for the league minimum.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

How early? Before people can start talking? It seems people already have a good idea about how a lot of the things will play out by the time FA typically officially opens.

Would this not happen around the time we'd have to decide on whether we are renouncing other guys?

They typically make the decision date a couple days before 7/1 when guys can start talking to teams. It's so the player gets a chance to get into FA and land someplace else if they aren't being brought back.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Just seems it would be around the same date as when you have to extend the QO and potentially renounce players, for similar purposes. I think agents might have a good idea if there might be a market for their players by then though.

[bigfoot]

Aug. 20: NBA draft lottery
Oct. 6: Last day to withdraw from the draft (international players)
Oct. 13: Last day of the NBA Finals
Oct. 16: NBA draft
TBD: Salary cap and luxury tax are set for 2020-21
Oct. 17: Last day for a team or player option to be exercised (5:00 PM ET)
Oct. 17: Last day for a player to receive a qualifying offer
Oct. 18: Free-agent negotiations can begin (6:00 p.m. ET)
Oct. 19-23: Free-agency moratorium (begins 12:01 a.m. ET)
Oct. 23: Free agency begins (12:00 p.m. ET)

More detailed here ...
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29256760/2020-nba-restart-key-dates-playoffs-draft-free-agency-schedule

[WeekapaugGroove]

How early? Before people can start talking? It seems people already have a good idea about how a lot of the things will play out by the time FA typically officially opens.

Would this not happen around the time we'd have to decide on whether we are renouncing other guys?

They typically make the decision date a couple days before 7/1 when guys can start talking to teams. It's so the player gets a chance to get into FA and land someplace else if they aren't being brought back.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Just seems it would be around the same date as when you have to extend the QO and potentially renounce players, for similar purposes. I think agents might have a good idea if there might be a market for their players by then though.

Oh yeah the suns will have some idea on whether Baynes even wants to come back, not that I think he was unhappy but he's old and might want to chase a ring. Or hell have some interest but want to test the market and see if he can get a big offer somewhere. If I'm the clips and Harrell is too expensive I'd offer the full MLE to Baynes.

I'd be absolutely shocked if the suns don't offer the QO to both Saric and Carter. Carter's is like $2mil so basically the minimum. I'd also expect the suns to talk to each one about a multi year deal.

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[bwgood77]

Aug. 20: NBA draft lottery
Oct. 6: Last day to withdraw from the draft (international players)
Oct. 13: Last day of the NBA Finals
Oct. 16: NBA draft
TBD: Salary cap and luxury tax are set for 2020-21
Oct. 17: Last day for a team or player option to be exercised (5:00 PM ET)
Oct. 17: Last day for a player to receive a qualifying offer
Oct. 18: Free-agent negotiations can begin (6:00 p.m. ET)
Oct. 19-23: Free-agency moratorium (begins 12:01 a.m. ET)
Oct. 23: Free agency begins (12:00 p.m. ET)

More detailed here ...
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29256760/2020-nba-restart-key-dates-playoffs-draft-free-agency-schedule

Do you know if you can renounce your own FAs at any time? Like, can you wait, and do it even into FA?

[WeekapaugGroove]

Aug. 20: NBA draft lottery
Oct. 6: Last day to withdraw from the draft (international players)
Oct. 13: Last day of the NBA Finals
Oct. 16: NBA draft
TBD: Salary cap and luxury tax are set for 2020-21
Oct. 17: Last day for a team or player option to be exercised (5:00 PM ET)
Oct. 17: Last day for a player to receive a qualifying offer
Oct. 18: Free-agent negotiations can begin (6:00 p.m. ET)
Oct. 19-23: Free-agency moratorium (begins 12:01 a.m. ET)
Oct. 23: Free agency begins (12:00 p.m. ET)

More detailed here ...
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29256760/2020-nba-restart-key-dates-playoffs-draft-free-agency-schedule

Do you know if you can renounce your own FAs at any time? Like, can you wait, and do it even into FA?

Yup, you can renounce cap holds at any time. You can even pull back the qualifying offer at any point (as long as the player doesn't sign it and no RFA ever does that early in the process).

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[Saberestar]

What I know now is that I prefer Saric over Baynes. IF James Jones is thinking about retaining only one of them because of money/roles I would love to bring back Saric because of his versatility, passing, ball handling and toughness on both ends. He is younger and more durable than Baynes too.

Not sure about Kaminsky. I think he is a decent bench player, IDK if we can sign someone better than him for $5M. Diallo is worse for sure, so he is not an option as a replacement.

Saric was nice in the bubble but I wasn't that high on him for much of the regular season. It's tough. Ayton plays so much differently when Baynes is active and playing as well. He like really rubs off on him. Ayton was like a different player here. I know that's on Ayton but I think Baynes really helped Ayton grow a lot this season but it didn't stick in the bubble while Baynes has been out. I think him just watching Baynes in the game and how he is directing things, talking, etc, really rubs off on Ayton during games...and helps him with matchups.

Ultimately, I think we will probably try and keep both if they are reasonable, given our cap situation and the weak FA class. But Baynes likely will have many more suitors and is probably more likely thinking about leaving.

You know that I like Baynes and I value him as one of the best backup Cs in the entire league and I would love to bring him back BUT is a real possibility that James Jones/Sarver will not want to spend around $20M on two backup PF/Cs.

I think Saric plays an important role as a creator for the second unit, he can make plays in the post or in the perimeter. Baynes doesn't have that in his game.

Saric is seven years younger than Baynes, he is entering his prime, so that is another positive factor for him.

And I don't believe that Baynes is THAT important for Ayton. I like his leadership as a veteran, but Ayton was next to Baynes in the bubble since the third or fourth game and you saw how he played... he was all the time talking to Ayton in timeouts and when going to the bench, but didn't matter.

[bwgood77]

They typically make the decision date a couple days before 7/1 when guys can start talking to teams. It's so the player gets a chance to get into FA and land someplace else if they aren't being brought back.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Just seems it would be around the same date as when you have to extend the QO and potentially renounce players, for similar purposes. I think agents might have a good idea if there might be a market for their players by then though.

Oh yeah the suns will have some idea on whether Baynes even wants to come back, not that I think he was unhappy but he's old and might want to chase a ring. Or hell have some interest but want to test the market and see if he can get a big offer somewhere. If I'm the clips and Harrell is too expensive I'd offer the full MLE to Baynes.

I'd be absolutely shocked if the suns don't offer the QO to both Saric and Carter. Carter's is like $2mil so basically the minimum. I'd also expect the suns to talk to each one about a multi year deal.

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Yeah, the QO's for sure. But if you offer Saric a QO you are basically telling him that's what you think he's worth and to go out and find more if he thinks he's worth it. That's when, if a guy does find more, especially if it's quite a bit more, they might rather you not match.

The only reason I can't say I'd be shocked if they didn't offer Saric the QO is that if they do really like him they might rather lock him up for longer. If he didn't get another offer that they matched, he could just play on the QO and go elsewhere. Not sure how many players play on a QO and then stay past that with the same team.

[bigfoot]

Aug. 20: NBA draft lottery
Oct. 6: Last day to withdraw from the draft (international players)
Oct. 13: Last day of the NBA Finals
Oct. 16: NBA draft
TBD: Salary cap and luxury tax are set for 2020-21
Oct. 17: Last day for a team or player option to be exercised (5:00 PM ET)
Oct. 17: Last day for a player to receive a qualifying offer
Oct. 18: Free-agent negotiations can begin (6:00 p.m. ET)
Oct. 19-23: Free-agency moratorium (begins 12:01 a.m. ET)
Oct. 23: Free agency begins (12:00 p.m. ET)

More detailed here ...
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29256760/2020-nba-restart-key-dates-playoffs-draft-free-agency-schedule

Do you know if you can renounce your own FAs at any time? Like, can you wait, and do it even into FA?

My guess is during that Oct 19-23 window you can renounce bird rights to players to reduce cap holds for Oct 23 signings.
We would have to extend qualifying offers to Saric and Carter on or before Oct 17th.
We would have to decline options on Frank, Okobo, and Diallo on or before Oct 17th.

It will be a crazy three days from Oct 16-Oct 18 with both the draft and free-agent negotiations happening. Exciting times!!

[WeekapaugGroove]

Just seems it would be around the same date as when you have to extend the QO and potentially renounce players, for similar purposes. I think agents might have a good idea if there might be a market for their players by then though.

Oh yeah the suns will have some idea on whether Baynes even wants to come back, not that I think he was unhappy but he's old and might want to chase a ring. Or hell have some interest but want to test the market and see if he can get a big offer somewhere. If I'm the clips and Harrell is too expensive I'd offer the full MLE to Baynes.

I'd be absolutely shocked if the suns don't offer the QO to both Saric and Carter. Carter's is like $2mil so basically the minimum. I'd also expect the suns to talk to each one about a multi year deal.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, the QO's for sure. But if you offer Saric a QO you are basically telling him that's what you think he's worth and to go out and find more if he thinks he's worth it. That's when, if a guy does find more, especially if it's quite a bit more, they might rather you not match.

The only reason I can't say I'd be shocked if they didn't offer Saric the QO is that if they do really like him they might rather lock him up for longer. If he didn't get another offer that they matched, he could just play on the QO and go elsewhere. Not sure how many players play on a QO and then stay past that with the same team.

Offering the QO is just the formality to retain matching rights. I think the suns will make him some type of multi year offer, now since they have matching rights it might not be a huge offer. Guys do sometimes get salty about the RFA process but most realize it's part of the business and how the CBA works.

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[bwgood77]

What I know now is that I prefer Saric over Baynes. IF James Jones is thinking about retaining only one of them because of money/roles I would love to bring back Saric because of his versatility, passing, ball handling and toughness on both ends. He is younger and more durable than Baynes too.

Not sure about Kaminsky. I think he is a decent bench player, IDK if we can sign someone better than him for $5M. Diallo is worse for sure, so he is not an option as a replacement.

Saric was nice in the bubble but I wasn't that high on him for much of the regular season. It's tough. Ayton plays so much differently when Baynes is active and playing as well. He like really rubs off on him. Ayton was like a different player here. I know that's on Ayton but I think Baynes really helped Ayton grow a lot this season but it didn't stick in the bubble while Baynes has been out. I think him just watching Baynes in the game and how he is directing things, talking, etc, really rubs off on Ayton during games...and helps him with matchups.

Ultimately, I think we will probably try and keep both if they are reasonable, given our cap situation and the weak FA class. But Baynes likely will have many more suitors and is probably more likely thinking about leaving.

You know that I like Baynes and I value him as one of the best backup Cs in the entire league and I would love to bring him back BUT is a real possibility that James Jones/Sarver will not want to spend around $20M on two backup PF/Cs.

I think Saric plays an important role as a creator for the second unit, he can make plays in the post or in the perimeter. Baynes doesn't have that in his game.

Saric is seven years younger than Baynes, he is entering his prime, so that is another positive factor for him.

And I don't believe that Baynes is THAT important for Ayton. I like his leadership as a veteran, but Ayton was next to Baynes in the bubble since the third or fourth game and you saw how he played... he was all the time talking to Ayton in timeouts and when going to the bench, but didn't matter.

I think it's a little different talking to Baynes as opposed to watching him play with the guys out there against each team. I just wish Saric was more consistent. I think he's worth keeping but he has had some seriously bad stretches with some pretty good play at other times.

He did play really well in the bubble though. Even though I'm glad we are 8-0 due to the way things played out with teams, I do wish we would have played more than like 2 games when the other team was at full strength to really evaluate people. We played scrubs so much and teams treating these almost like preseason that it's tough to know for sure.

But the Clips who are one of the best teams, were at full strength or close to it when we played them, and I think Dallas too in the first game (though that one did feel a little lucky to win).

But regardless, Cam, Saric, Bridges, Carter and Payne all really stepped up and played better than you would have expected. And Book and Rubio solid as usual.

[bigfoot]

I can't stress how important I think Saric is for our bench unit. What the bubble showed me is that Dario is very capable at running the offense. His vision is very good, his passing crisp, and he can take his man off the dribble or post up. These skills didn't mesh well in the starting unit because Booker and Rubio are the primary ball handlers which turns Dario into just a spot-up shooter. We know Oubre is not a passer and if he is relegated to the second unit, Dario needs to be the facilitator.