Boylen fired!!

[WindyCityBorn]

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He’s going to be without a team if he keeps playing like he did last year.

Not sure he has a role if we keep Dunn. He might OK for 15 minutes at night at SG/PG.

[WindyCityBorn]

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In my opinion, he's the worst coach we've had during my lifetime as a fan. Easily the least enjoyable it's been for me.

Agree. He was somehow worse than Hoiberg and I didn't think that was possible.

Hoiberg was just not a good NBA head coach. Boylen has been a complete disaster and embarrassment as a college and pro head coach leading player rebellions at both stops.

[johnnyvann840]

Actually, money has nothing to do with it but "basic humanity" does explain why I really wanted Boylen out.

Like, to give background, I've never really argued that strongly for firing a coach before. Del Negro was a bad coach, but he also got assaulted. I guess I wanted Fred gone, but I think he was basically a good guy, just not a good coach.

Boylen is plain and simple not a good guy in the way that Hoiberg is. He got his job by kneecapping Hoiberg and being a politician, and then started his run by publicly humiliating his players.

He acted like a boorish jerk to players, opponents, fans and the media, and apparently various other people within the Bulls organization. In this respect, his tenure here was very much like his tenure at Utah, which left that program in shambles. That is, it's not like it's just some isolated case where he got mad and did something dumb. There's a track record going back a long way of him, frankly, treating people badly, overstepping bounds, and being nasty, embarrassing, or both.

I mean, I don't wish him dead or anything, but he's not a guy we should spend much time feeling bad for either. Not a good coach, and not a good guy either.

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In my opinion, he's the worst coach we've had during my lifetime as a fan. Easily the least enjoyable it's been for me.

(gets really good around 6:13)

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Wow. So glad this moron is gone. My hatred for him burns hot.

[Hangtime84]

Lauri will be on his way to MIP

I really hope so. He had no chance in Boylen's system. Zach, Coby and Lauri will be our leading scorers next season.

Doubt it handles still weak AF. This effects him being able to create his own shot and draw fouls. His handles don’t need to be super elite to get it done either.

Most 4s in the league play like SF.

[Red8911]

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In my opinion, he's the worst coach we've had during my lifetime as a fan. Easily the least enjoyable it's been for me.

Agree. He was somehow worse than Hoiberg and I didn't think that was possible.

Hoiberg was just not a good NBA head coach. Boylen has been a complete disaster and embarrassment as a college and pro head coach leading player rebellions at both stops.

Boylen wasn’t a good coach and will probably not get another head coaching opportunity but at the same time all of this hate with the tweet and video is way overblown to just hate on the guy. It’s ridiculous.Again he was bad but not THAT bad. I still think hoiberg was a lot worse. Anyways most coaches wouldn’t be able to do squat with this team so it’s not all his fault for this seasons failure, players are the ones who should get the blame.

[drosereturn]

Of all the head scratching decison (there's a top 20 list there) by The Jimbo, the one that stood out to me was when Gafford got injured but Jimbo refuse to call TO to get him off the court. Carlisle had to call a TO to help him out.

He had to save that TO a draw up a play with 10 seconds left and down by 12

Tossing Gafford out and no TO while also saying Lauri should focus on rebounding is when I decided enough is enough.
I thought his hard training was to discipline Lavine and rookies which was fine since they lacked professionalism but harassing players is another story.

[Dez]

Of all the head scratching decison (there's a top 20 list there) by The Jimbo, the one that stood out to me was when Gafford got injured but Jimbo refuse to call TO to get him off the court. Carlisle had to call a TO to help him out.

He had to save that TO a draw up a play with 10 seconds left and down by 12

Tossing Gafford out and no TO while also saying Lauri should focus on rebounding is when I decided enough is enough.
I thought his hard training was to discipline Lavine and rookies which was fine since they lacked professionalism but harassing players is another story.

LaVine lacked professionalism? My God your hatred for him is just insane.

[jnrjr79]

Woj and Shams make everyone look clueless. Those 2 get the first scoop about 99% of the time.

Obviously the national guys break things generally more often than the local beat people, but I'm not sure why this is coming up here. Neither Woj nor Shams broke the Boylen firing. The Bulls managed to keep it to themselves until issuing the press release.

Still doesn't mean that KC should get some kind of criticism over it. That's my point.

It's not really a good point, though. The national guys have relationships with the agents, which is where most of the big reports come from. Agents want to talk to them because of their national platforms. KC, or any beat writer, is only going to have occasional scoops. It's not like beat writers in other markets are typically the ones to break the big news.

[sco]

My only hope is that AK can come to understand the folly of hiring an assistant to be our HC. There is a learning curve and I don't want to waste 2 more years for some dude to try to figure stuff out.

[Hangtime84]

Boylen wasn’t a good coach and will probably not get another head coaching opportunity but at the same time all of this hate with the tweet and video is way overblown to just hate on the guy. It’s ridiculous.Again he was bad but not THAT bad. I still think hoiberg was a lot worse. Anyways most coaches wouldn’t be able to do squat with this team so it’s not all his fault for this seasons failure, players are the ones who should get the blame.

The players have really been at fault to me the last 3 years while yes GM should be blamed for picking them. But after a player gets drafted it’s on them to improve and stay healthy. (I.e diet plan looking at you lauri)

[RedBulls23]

Obviously the national guys break things generally more often than the local beat people, but I'm not sure why this is coming up here. Neither Woj nor Shams broke the Boylen firing. The Bulls managed to keep it to themselves until issuing the press release.

Still doesn't mean that KC should get some kind of criticism over it. That's my point.

It's not really a good point, though. The national guys have relationships with the agents, which is where most of the big reports come from. Agents want to talk to them because of their national platforms. KC, or any beat writer, is only going to have occasional scoops. It's not like beat writers in other markets are typically the ones to break the big news.

What point do you think I'm making here? I'm literally defending KC saying he shouldn't get criticism because the national guys like WOJ and Sham (even guys like Stein) get 99% of the scoops before everyone.

It seems to me you agree with me, but are arguing for no reason. Or just aren't actually reading what I'm saying.

[RedBulls23]

Boylen wasn’t a good coach and will probably not get another head coaching opportunity but at the same time all of this hate with the tweet and video is way overblown to just hate on the guy. It’s ridiculous.Again he was bad but not THAT bad. I still think hoiberg was a lot worse. Anyways most coaches wouldn’t be able to do squat with this team so it’s not all his fault for this seasons failure, players are the ones who should get the blame.

The players have really been at fault to me the last 3 years while yes GM should be blamed for picking them. But after a player gets drafted it’s on them to improve and stay healthy. (I.e diet plan looking at you lauri)

That's incorrect. Player development is part of the FOs job. They definitely get partial blame when we see zero improvement from guys on the team, but then see players go to other organizations and start to play better.

Look at how Toronto is developing guys they draft. Yes, players need to wheel hard, but the organization has to also have a system in place.

[Jvaughn]

Boylen wasn’t a good coach and will probably not get another head coaching opportunity but at the same time all of this hate with the tweet and video is way overblown to just hate on the guy. It’s ridiculous.Again he was bad but not THAT bad. I still think hoiberg was a lot worse. Anyways most coaches wouldn’t be able to do squat with this team so it’s not all his fault for this seasons failure, players are the ones who should get the blame.

The players have really been at fault to me the last 3 years while yes GM should be blamed for picking them. But after a player gets drafted it’s on them to improve and stay healthy. (I.e diet plan looking at you lauri)

That's incorrect. Player development is part of the FOs job. They definitely get partial blame when we see zero improvement from guys on the team, but then see players go to other organizations and start to play better.

Look at how Toronto is developing guys they draft. Yes, players need to wheel hard, but the organization has to also have a system in place.

I don't think Hangtime is taking the blame off of Boylen, but players have to take some responsibility as well. Lauri for instance can't blame the fact that he can't grab more than 6rpg at 7'0 on his coach. He regressed in almost every way. The coaches can't do the work for you.

That being said, I do think the new regime AK brings in will probably focus on player development first. We have some real dead weight on this team (Felicio, Korner, etc) but we have enough young talent in our top 3 players to make the playoffs in the east.

[RedBulls23]

The players have really been at fault to me the last 3 years while yes GM should be blamed for picking them. But after a player gets drafted it’s on them to improve and stay healthy. (I.e diet plan looking at you lauri)

That's incorrect. Player development is part of the FOs job. They definitely get partial blame when we see zero improvement from guys on the team, but then see players go to other organizations and start to play better.

Look at how Toronto is developing guys they draft. Yes, players need to wheel hard, but the organization has to also have a system in place.

I don't think Hangtime is taking the blame off of Boylen, but players have to take some responsibility as well. Lauri for instance can't blame the fact that he can't grab more than 6rpg at 7'0 on his coach. He regressed in almost every way. The coaches can't do the work for you.

That being said, I do think the new regime AK brings in will probably focus on player development first. We have some real dead weight on this team (Felicio, Korner, etc) but we have enough young talent in our top 3 players to make the playoffs in the east.

I said players need to work hard. The FO also needs to have a system in place for player development.

Lauri isn't the only player we saw with little development. WCJ, Hutchinson just last year. Players that have been part of the organization in recent years like McDermott, Payne, and TLC are being more productive else where.

Hangtime completely absolved the FO ( he said GM) in player development.

Also in addition while injuries aren't anyone's fault, but how they are handled can fall under the FO as well. They are the ones that hire the training staff too.

[Mr Funk]

Wow. So glad this moron is gone. My hatred for him burns hot.

Same, I hate him more than Gar as he threw his players under the bus, was so blatantly reckless and irresponsible regarding all of those back-to-back games and stupid practices (which could've resulted in potentially serious injuries jeopardizing careers), plus his toxic bullying and behavior around the team and in the locker room. And not calling a timeout when Gafford got hurt was such a scumbag move and cemented him as a bonafide POS.

[MrFortune3]

Tim Floyd is thankful every day that Boylen became coach of the Bulls.

[jnrjr79]

Still doesn't mean that KC should get some kind of criticism over it. That's my point.

It's not really a good point, though. The national guys have relationships with the agents, which is where most of the big reports come from. Agents want to talk to them because of their national platforms. KC, or any beat writer, is only going to have occasional scoops. It's not like beat writers in other markets are typically the ones to break the big news.

What point do you think I'm making here? I'm literally defending KC saying he shouldn't get criticism because the national guys like WOJ and Sham (even guys like Stein) get 99% of the scoops before everyone.

It seems to me you agree with me, but are arguing for no reason. Or just aren't actually reading what I'm saying.

Yep, I misread what you wrote thinking you were saying the opposite of what you were. My bad!

[kodo]

I don't think Hangtime is taking the blame off of Boylen, but players have to take some responsibility as well. Lauri for instance can't blame the fact that he can't grab more than 6rpg at 7'0 on his coach. He regressed in almost every way. The coaches can't do the work for you.

That being said, I do think the new regime AK brings in will probably focus on player development first. We have some real dead weight on this team (Felicio, Korner, etc) but we have enough young talent in our top 3 players to make the playoffs in the east.

Well on the rebounding example, that particular thing is a coaching decision because the Bulls hard hedge and don't often recover, the big stays on the ballhandler, we usually rely on weakside rotation. But this leaves bigs way on the perimeter and not in rebounding position. It's not just Lauri, Gafford also has few def rebounds. This caused rebounding to shift to perimeter guys. After WCJ went down, Zach Lavine was our 2nd best rebounder on the starting unit.

Last season we ran the opposite, bigs fall back to the rim (and allow ballhandlers open shots...and our defense was predictably among the worst in the league for it), but this allowed bigs to grab rebounds. Last season Lauri was a top 10 rebounder for his position.

* Giannis 12.5 rpg
* AD 12.0 rpg
Love 10.9 rpg
Collins 9.8 rpg
Sabonis 9.3 rpg
LMA 9.2 rpg
Lauri 9.1 rpg

I asterisk both Giannis & AD because Lopez lives on the 3 point line, Giannis is really a 5. And AD was paired with Randle & Mirotic, also making him really a 5. True PFs averaging 9+ rpg are a small group that Lauri was part of.

Overall, I don't care too much about Lauri's rebounding #s as long as someone is getting the board. On successful teams like HOU, the vast majority of boards are grabbed by their guards Harden & Westbrook. And there's a lot of advantages having a playmaker grab the rebound and start the offense vs bigs who aren't going to do much w/ the ball anyway.

And we did gain a significant advantage by hard hedging:
2018/19: Bulls opponent 3PM per game: 24th
2019/20: Bulls opponent 3PM per game: 4th

I think the biggest issue with the defensive strategy is if that's how we're going to run, with guards getting the boards, why do you need a 7' PF at all. Why not put a SF there who can shoot, dribble, drive, defend. Lauri is a massively oversized PF, and 7 footers have a lot of limitations. The coach needs to either utilize Lauri's size there, or we don't need any 7' stretch 4 no matter who he is.

[PaKii94]

I don't think Hangtime is taking the blame off of Boylen, but players have to take some responsibility as well. Lauri for instance can't blame the fact that he can't grab more than 6rpg at 7'0 on his coach. He regressed in almost every way. The coaches can't do the work for you.

That being said, I do think the new regime AK brings in will probably focus on player development first. We have some real dead weight on this team (Felicio, Korner, etc) but we have enough young talent in our top 3 players to make the playoffs in the east.

Well on the rebounding example, that particular thing is a coaching decision because the Bulls hard hedge and don't often recover, the big stays on the ballhandler, we usually rely on weakside rotation. But this leaves bigs way on the perimeter and not in rebounding position. It's not just Lauri, Gafford also has few def rebounds. This caused rebounding to shift to perimeter guys. After WCJ went down, Zach Lavine was our 2nd best rebounder on the starting unit.

Last season we ran the opposite, bigs fall back to the rim (and allow ballhandlers open shots...and our defense was predictably among the worst in the league for it), but this allowed bigs to grab rebounds. Last season Lauri was a top 10 rebounder for his position.

* Giannis 12.5 rpg
* AD 12.0 rpg
Love 10.9 rpg
Collins 9.8 rpg
Sabonis 9.3 rpg
LMA 9.2 rpg
Lauri 9.1 rpg

I asterisk both Giannis & AD because Lopez lives on the 3 point line, Giannis is really a 5. And AD was paired with Randle & Mirotic, also making him really a 5. True PFs averaging 9+ rpg are a small group that Lauri was part of.

Overall, I don't care too much about Lauri's rebounding #s as long as someone is getting the board. On successful teams like HOU, the vast majority of boards are grabbed by their guards Harden & Westbrook. And there's a lot of advantages having a playmaker grab the rebound and start the offense vs bigs who aren't going to do much w/ the ball anyway.

And we did gain a significant advantage by hard hedging:
2018/19: Bulls opponent 3PM per game: 24th
2019/20: Bulls opponent 3PM per game: 4th

I think the biggest issue with the defensive strategy is if that's how we're going to run, with guards getting the boards, why do you need a 7' PF at all. Why not put a SF there who can shoot, dribble, drive, defend. Lauri is a massively oversized PF, and 7 footers have a lot of limitations. The coach needs to either utilize Lauri's size there, or we don't need any 7' stretch 4 no matter who he is.

The way Lauri was used it doesn't even matter size/position. He was used primarily as a weakside spacer. Any shooter can fit that role.

As far as his rebounding, I do think is overall ability "dipped" but not in an extreme sense, maybe to 90-95% of what he was last year. What was the biggest change in his rebounding (if you look at the breakdown further ) is his uncontested defensive rebounds which went down a whopping 2 rpg. And those are the inconsequential stat padding rebounds.

If you add that back on his rebounding goes to 8.3 (which is down again from 9 but still not an extreme drop off). The slight drop off I attribute to A) rolo to WCJ and B) the defensive scheme with guards rebounding more.

[robert76]

Wow. So glad this moron is gone. My hatred for him burns hot.

Same, I hate him more than Gar as he threw his players under the bus, was so blatantly reckless and irresponsible regarding all of those back-to-back games and stupid practices (which could've resulted in potentially serious injuries jeopardizing careers), plus his toxic bullying and behavior around the team and in the locker room. And not calling a timeout when Gafford got hurt was such a scumbag move and cemented him as a bonafide POS.

Exactly. People saying that "he wasn't that bad" seem to ignore the fact that he wasn't just a bad coach. The Bulls had bad coaches before, like Hoiberg and VDN. But he seemed like an awful human being. Arrogant for no reason, throwing players under the bus, being a bully, kissing the FO's ass...