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2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes

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If Suns get Chris Paul, who will be the 2nd leading scorer on the team?

Ayton
44
94%
Paul
3
6%
 
Total votes: 47

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#701 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:38 pm

Desertfox wrote:Just an idea but what about trading Oubre for some solid backups? Could the Mavs use him? I'm thinking Oubre for Kleber + Curry, you get a solid 4-5 and 1-2 backup.
It's not a bad trade value wise because I really like Kleber. But I'd be a little leery of sending Kelly to Dallas because I think he'd be a good fit there and is still not done growing as a player. Not that the destination should be the determining factor in an oubre deal but would just leave me a little uneasy.

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#702 » by Walt_Uoob » Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:57 pm

SuperSunsFan wrote:Saric was my favorite besides of course Book during the reset, this dude has been misused is his whole career, he is not a channing frye type stretch shooter, he is the diaw scola type slightly undersized big that needs to be put on the block to be effective.


This is a great way of putting it and is actually yet another argument for bringing Baynes back IMO, because it means Saric and Baynes can totally share the floor. Baynes can set high picks and do some perimeter camping when Saric is operating out of the block so they don't get in each other's way. When he's open and not forcing it it seems like he hits >50% of his threes. If Oubre plays SF during those minutes that helps with the rebounding and athleticism and slashing.

I don't pay super close attention to the substitution patterns but say we start Rubio-Booker-Bridges-Johnson-Ayton, and then the first sub is Oubre for Johnson so we get some time with that top lineup from this season. Then at some point Payne, Saric, and Baynes come in while Bridges and Oubre shift from 3-4 to 2-3. Carter subs for Bridges at some point too. I don't know if we'd actually have a whole bench unit all at once, but if we do, Payne-Carter-Oubre-Saric-Baynes should actually be really solid: playmaking from Saric, Payne, and a little from Carter; decent to good shooting from everywhere; cutting/driving from Payne and Oubre; adequate defense and rebounding for a 6-10 group; and LOTS of tenacity and character for a bench mob. As Johnson was the first sub out, he could also be the first starter back in, e.g. for Baynes, pushing Saric to his small-ball 5 role.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#703 » by Walt_Uoob » Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:25 pm

Assuming we bring back basically everyone, what are the lineups/combos we should NOT look forward to? I definitely hated the three-guard lineups Monty tried in the scrimmages, but maybe with better personnel (usually it was Payne-Carter-Jerome) it wouldn't be so bad. I also don't particularly want to see very much point-Book because I want him to focus on continuing to improve as a defender. Any other particularly problematic lineups/combos?
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#704 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:34 pm

Walt_Uoob wrote:Assuming we bring back basically everyone, what are the lineups/combos we should NOT look forward to? I definitely hated the three-guard lineups Monty tried in the scrimmages, but maybe with better personnel (usually it was Payne-Carter-Jerome) it wouldn't be so bad. I also don't particularly want to see very much point-Book because I want him to focus on continuing to improve as a defender. Any other particularly problematic lineups/combos?
Ayton and Baynes on the floor together... or Ayton and any traditional type big man at all.

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#705 » by bhawk » Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:39 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:
King4Day wrote:On Reddit, someone asked a Grizzlies fan how they felt about Josh Jackson.

"Very strange honestly. He was playing very very well right before the season got suspended. Then for whatever reason he completely fell out of the rotation. Don’t think he’s a long term part of our plan but wish the guy well."

Am I a dick for hoping he doesn't make it? I probably am but I feel like he didn't try with us really and just messed around.

6 months layoff. He probably was doing stuff he shouldn’t be doing. I thought he was playing okay before the season ended. Curious what his future is in the NBA.


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Seems like every draft or two has some enormously talented player who just doesn't take their career seriously. Josh was that guy for 2017. Too bad. I still think he's enormously talented, but talent is only half the game.


Well said. Heart, passion, love for the game, basketball IQ, work ethic, being positive in the face of adversity... It is intangibles like these that need to be a bigger part of the Suns draft process. JJ, Chriss and Bender are 3 recent examples of Suns who busted. Why? Intangibles. Athleticism and god-given size, speed, hops, agility are table stakes. Great intangibles is what turns an athlete into NBA starters and stars. Here's looking at you DeAndre Ayton. What's it going to be?
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#706 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:25 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:6 months layoff. He probably was doing stuff he shouldn’t be doing. I thought he was playing okay before the season ended. Curious what his future is in the NBA.


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Seems like every draft or two has some enormously talented player who just doesn't take their career seriously. Josh was that guy for 2017. Too bad. I still think he's enormously talented, but talent is only half the game.
I actually think Jackson's talent is overrated, like realistically what does he actually do well? Billed as a good defender but he wasn't very assignment steady as s defender. On O he doesn't shoot well enough to be a factor off the ball and with the ball he's way too wild and turnover prone often driving without a plan. He's probably best in transition but for some reason he was just an awful finisher. Heck I don't even think he's as good of an athlete as be was billed coming out.

Maybe he figures some things out but at this point I'd bet on a guy like Chiss making it over Jackson because at least he's a legit good athlete who can do some things.


I think Jackson's one of the quickest players with the ball in his hands I've ever seen. Not nearly the leaper some expected - I agree with you there, if that's what you mean. But that quickness needs to be paired with an array of smarts and skills, which JJ has been unable to add. He's also highly energetic, which is another kind of talent, but which, again, needs to be paired with IQ and skills.

I just don't see JJ as having the humility and dedication to put in the work. Some people need time, but with him, I just don't see it.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#707 » by handsome salary » Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:44 pm

bhawk wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:

Seems like every draft or two has some enormously talented player who just doesn't take their career seriously. Josh was that guy for 2017. Too bad. I still think he's enormously talented, but talent is only half the game.


Here's looking at you DeAndre Ayton. What's it going to be?


I was thinking isn't this the knock on Ayton every other quarter.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#708 » by BobbieL » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:23 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Walt_Uoob wrote:Assuming we bring back basically everyone, what are the lineups/combos we should NOT look forward to? I definitely hated the three-guard lineups Monty tried in the scrimmages, but maybe with better personnel (usually it was Payne-Carter-Jerome) it wouldn't be so bad. I also don't particularly want to see very much point-Book because I want him to focus on continuing to improve as a defender. Any other particularly problematic lineups/combos?
Ayton and Baynes on the floor together... or Ayton and any traditional type big man at all.

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I have a feeling Baynes will go to a playoff contender closer to winning. Granted, maybe the Suns overpay for him. Baynes was a good teammate, good back up for sure. I can just see him wanting a better shot of winning and the Suns aren't there yet.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#709 » by King4Day » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:28 pm

Fo-Real wrote:Renouncing some rights, Oubre to a team for TPE and a pick.....ANTHONY DAVIS!!!! I'm gonna go shower!!!


This is why we need LAL to get bounced before the finals. The earlier the better.
Outside of living in LA, why would he want to stay on an aging team long term?
If Phoenix landed him, you trade Ayton and your first for pieces that fit better.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#710 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:33 pm

King4Day wrote:
Fo-Real wrote:Renouncing some rights, Oubre to a team for TPE and a pick.....ANTHONY DAVIS!!!! I'm gonna go shower!!!


This is why we need LAL to get bounced before the finals. The earlier the better.
Outside of living in LA, why would he want to stay on an aging team long term?
If Phoenix landed him, you trade Ayton and your first for pieces that fit better.


Ayton would be a huge draw for AD. AD doesn't want to start at center. So us having a long-term lock at 5 I think would give AD some additional peace of mind.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#711 » by Fo-Real » Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:15 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
King4Day wrote:
Fo-Real wrote:Renouncing some rights, Oubre to a team for TPE and a pick.....ANTHONY DAVIS!!!! I'm gonna go shower!!!


This is why we need LAL to get bounced before the finals. The earlier the better.
Outside of living in LA, why would he want to stay on an aging team long term?
If Phoenix landed him, you trade Ayton and your first for pieces that fit better.


Ayton would be a huge draw for AD. AD doesn't want to start at center. So us having a long-term lock at 5 I think would give AD some additional peace of mind.


And Ayton learns from AD how to compete at the highest level!!
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#712 » by BobbieL » Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:53 pm

Suns would have about 11m of cap space if they hold Saric and Carter are kept on holds

Baynes, Kaminsky and Diallo not brought back

That means no MLE - but for 11m or close to it - Suns should be able to get a couple players - maybe one year deals and really keep some cap for 2021
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#713 » by SunsLyf3 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:21 pm

How does everyone feel about a KO for Marcus Smart swap? Elite defense off the bench and he can play both PG and SG. Would Boston be interested since Hayward is coming off the books?
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#714 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:30 pm

BobbieL wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Walt_Uoob wrote:Assuming we bring back basically everyone, what are the lineups/combos we should NOT look forward to? I definitely hated the three-guard lineups Monty tried in the scrimmages, but maybe with better personnel (usually it was Payne-Carter-Jerome) it wouldn't be so bad. I also don't particularly want to see very much point-Book because I want him to focus on continuing to improve as a defender. Any other particularly problematic lineups/combos?
Ayton and Baynes on the floor together... or Ayton and any traditional type big man at all.

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I have a feeling Baynes will go to a playoff contender closer to winning. Granted, maybe the Suns overpay for him. Baynes was a good teammate, good back up for sure. I can just see him wanting a better shot of winning and the Suns aren't there yet.

Might have agreed with you but with the wells likely more dry than most offseasons, I think he might take up our offer, even if it's not an overpay. Also I think our performance in the bubble may have changed perceptions of how close we are to a playoff contender. We may still struggle to get out of the first round should we make the playoffs at all but we're a lot closer than where we were at the start of last season. Being around the team during an 8 game winning streak (only a handful of teams each season win 8+ in a row) and seeing how competitive and cohesive we can be might change his mind too.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#715 » by bigfoot » Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:52 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:6 months layoff. He probably was doing stuff he shouldn’t be doing. I thought he was playing okay before the season ended. Curious what his future is in the NBA.


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Seems like every draft or two has some enormously talented player who just doesn't take their career seriously. Josh was that guy for 2017. Too bad. I still think he's enormously talented, but talent is only half the game.
I actually think Jackson's talent is overrated, like realistically what does he actually do well? Billed as a good defender but he wasn't very assignment steady as s defender. On O he doesn't shoot well enough to be a factor off the ball and with the ball he's way too wild and turnover prone often driving without a plan. He's probably best in transition but for some reason he was just an awful finisher. Heck I don't even think he's as good of an athlete as be was billed coming out.

Maybe he figures some things out but at this point I'd bet on a guy like Chiss making it over Jackson because at least he's a legit good athlete who can do some things.

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This is the problem of overvaluing athleticism to BBIQ. Players with high IQ see the play developing on offense or defense well before it happens. Players likely Dudley, Rubio, Doncic who might be considered marginal athletes can overcome that weakness and be good to generational players because of IQ. Then you have the Goodwins and Jacksons that just don't have enough BB brainpower to put their obvious strength to good use.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#716 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:07 am

bigfoot wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Seems like every draft or two has some enormously talented player who just doesn't take their career seriously. Josh was that guy for 2017. Too bad. I still think he's enormously talented, but talent is only half the game.
I actually think Jackson's talent is overrated, like realistically what does he actually do well? Billed as a good defender but he wasn't very assignment steady as s defender. On O he doesn't shoot well enough to be a factor off the ball and with the ball he's way too wild and turnover prone often driving without a plan. He's probably best in transition but for some reason he was just an awful finisher. Heck I don't even think he's as good of an athlete as be was billed coming out.

Maybe he figures some things out but at this point I'd bet on a guy like Chiss making it over Jackson because at least he's a legit good athlete who can do some things.

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This is the problem of overvaluing athleticism to BBIQ. Players with high IQ see the play developing on offense or defense well before it happens. Players likely Dudley, Rubio, Doncic who might be considered marginal athletes can overcome that weakness and be good to generational players because of IQ. Then you have the Goodwins and Jacksons that just don't have enough BB brainpower to put their obvious strength to good use.

I agree. But then we also went with the BBIQ pick in Bender in the same draft we also went with the athleticism pick in Chriss. Just a bad year to double down
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#717 » by phx#7 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:53 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:I actually think Jackson's talent is overrated, like realistically what does he actually do well? Billed as a good defender but he wasn't very assignment steady as s defender. On O he doesn't shoot well enough to be a factor off the ball and with the ball he's way too wild and turnover prone often driving without a plan. He's probably best in transition but for some reason he was just an awful finisher. Heck I don't even think he's as good of an athlete as be was billed coming out.

Maybe he figures some things out but at this point I'd bet on a guy like Chiss making it over Jackson because at least he's a legit good athlete who can do some things.

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This is the problem of overvaluing athleticism to BBIQ. Players with high IQ see the play developing on offense or defense well before it happens. Players likely Dudley, Rubio, Doncic who might be considered marginal athletes can overcome that weakness and be good to generational players because of IQ. Then you have the Goodwins and Jacksons that just don't have enough BB brainpower to put their obvious strength to good use.

I agree. But then we also went with the BBIQ pick in Bender in the same draft we also went with the athleticism pick in Chriss. Just a bad year to double down


There are plenty of high bbiq players that bust. There's really no rhyme or reason to it other than each individual is different and responds differently to the situations they find themselves.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#718 » by Blonde » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:56 am

SunsLyf3 wrote:How does everyone feel about a KO for Marcus Smart swap? Elite defense off the bench and he can play both PG and SG. Would Boston be interested since Hayward is coming off the books?


I would be really shocked if Boston has interest in this trade. I would do it in a second. Smart is the better player on the better deal. Boston has looked great in the games where Smart has started. Probably even more important than Kemba for that team.

I was thinking maybe something along the lines of a sign and trade for Jerami Grant. Denver could use the wing athleticism of Oubre but maybe don’t want to commit to Grant long term because they’ve got MPJ ready to start at PF pretty soon. We could create space needed to sign Grant outright but this could be a move later on once we’ve used all our cap on other pieces. I kind of love the idea of Grant/Cam playing all 48 minutes of PF for us.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#719 » by ray ray » Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:35 am

Bradley Beal wants to be traded.. and don’t be surprise if PHX is a trade destination he wants .. I’m not saying he’s going to be a Suns but he’s low key loving what the suns are doing
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#720 » by Blonde » Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:37 am

ray ray wrote:Bradley Beal wants to be traded.. and don’t be surprise if PHX is a trade destination he wants .. I’m not saying he’s going to be a Suns but he’s low key loving what the suns are doing

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