Democratic Primary Thread: The Deuce

[thebuzzardman]

I know. I hate to bring this up during a kumbayah moment like this but we had a 90% marginal tax rate on the top Level income earners back then. The middle class was the backbone of America back then (with also a big push from the G.I. Bill which raise the income level of middle class workers).

Glad to see you concur with the guy who wholeheartedly supports the candidate of the military/industrial complex.

And yeah, we get that Biden, or really 98% of democrats since, oh, 1975, have been supporters as well.

But Trump isn't some f*cking populist hero here.

He's just been running a "bootleg Reagan" playbook the entire time, only instead of people content with horsesh*t nostalgia and 1880's economics dressed up as new "supply side" policy, they wanted someone to be an avatar for their anger.

And sure, people SHOULD be angry at the fact that there was a class struggle where the oligarchical class ran reactionary politics, strategizing the move from the early 70's on, and getting "their guy" in the 80's, and the Dems capitulated and sold out quick.

But again, Trump is just another BS version of Reagan. Sell the proles on some racist, nostalgic throwback bs, his own personal, stupid, angry (and racist, for some) style fits well with the anger of white voters unaccustomed to getting the sh*tty end of the stick for extended periods. Meanwhile, it's all a cynical ploy, where various rich types get the government policies they favor - deregulation of business until it's completely unregulated, tax breaks that favor the wealthy, etc etc.

Trust me, I get Trump was a bit of an accident for the Republicans. Threw them off a bit that the right wing culture war BS they use to troll for votes among their base actually rose up and produced a candidate that section of the party wanted, but the party was well equipped to use it, because they know a bs cynic when they see one; it's only been the platform of the party for years.

So, they pivoted and have let Trump foam at the mouth with his meaningless bs for the cameras, while the republican party enacts the same agenda they've followed for 45 years, which isn't THAT different from the ones the democrats do, though obviously way more blunt in their pursuit of policies that ONLY favor the rich.

It's hilarious to me when people think Trump is anything different. He and his family are here to get in on the action; not change it. He's the type of leader a country produces when it's already hopelessly corrupt and no longer cares about governing or the people and is way past even pretending. Just content to stoke their anger and profit.

I think if you go back and read it, he agreed with meeeeeeee! lol

Also, there is case to be made that Trump populism and Bernie populism are opposite sides of the same coin, generally speaking.

Which brings me to my next point. BallSac and I used to hit each other upside the head with 2x4s back in the day over at Current Events thread before tsherkin banned me for life. BallSac and I also had a lot of laughs too. He and I will fight over our politics but at the end of the day I like his sense of humor more than I hate his politics.

I cut a couple of unnecessary words out Wingo. j4remi

Yeah, the far left and far right generally get close in corrupted societies. You know, like Germany and Italy in the 30's...

[HarthorneWingo]

Glad to see you concur with the guy who wholeheartedly supports the candidate of the military/industrial complex.

And yeah, we get that Biden, or really 98% of democrats since, oh, 1975, have been supporters as well.

But Trump isn't some f*cking populist hero here.

He's just been running a "bootleg Reagan" playbook the entire time, only instead of people content with horsesh*t nostalgia and 1880's economics dressed up as new "supply side" policy, they wanted someone to be an avatar for their anger.

And sure, people SHOULD be angry at the fact that there was a class struggle where the oligarchical class ran reactionary politics, strategizing the move from the early 70's on, and getting "their guy" in the 80's, and the Dems capitulated and sold out quick.

But again, Trump is just another BS version of Reagan. Sell the proles on some racist, nostalgic throwback bs, his own personal, stupid, angry (and racist, for some) style fits well with the anger of white voters unaccustomed to getting the sh*tty end of the stick for extended periods. Meanwhile, it's all a cynical ploy, where various rich types get the government policies they favor - deregulation of business until it's completely unregulated, tax breaks that favor the wealthy, etc etc.

Trust me, I get Trump was a bit of an accident for the Republicans. Threw them off a bit that the right wing culture war BS they use to troll for votes among their base actually rose up and produced a candidate that section of the party wanted, but the party was well equipped to use it, because they know a bs cynic when they see one; it's only been the platform of the party for years.

So, they pivoted and have let Trump foam at the mouth with his meaningless bs for the cameras, while the republican party enacts the same agenda they've followed for 45 years, which isn't THAT different from the ones the democrats do, though obviously way more blunt in their pursuit of policies that ONLY favor the rich.

It's hilarious to me when people think Trump is anything different. He and his family are here to get in on the action; not change it. He's the type of leader a country produces when it's already hopelessly corrupt and no longer cares about governing or the people and is way past even pretending. Just content to stoke their anger and profit.

I think if you go back and read it, he agreed with meeeeeeee! lol

Also, there is case to be made that Trump populism and Bernie populism are opposite sides of the same coin, generally speaking.

Which brings me to my next point. BallSac and I used to hit each other upside the head with 2x4s back in the day over at Current Events thread before tsherkin banned me for life. BallSac and I also had a lot of laughs too. He and I will fight over our politics but at the end of the day I like his sense of humor more than I hate his politics.

I cut a couple of unnecessary words out Wingo. j4remi

Yeah, the far left and far right generally get close in corrupted societies. You know, like Germany and Italy in the 30's...

No, not like that at all. You know what I mean. Bernie the autocrat! I like to think at least we on the left have refined our agenda and I, for one, think it stands up today. As far as right-wing populism goes, the country has ignored rural Americans as manufacturing jobs left the country due to bad trade deals and the concomitant degradation and deterioration of their communities ensued. While democrats ignored them, Fox news and rightwing radio exploited them. That's why many of those voters would've voted for Bernie instead of Hillary in '16 and Bernie would've won. There are a few here on this thread that want to try and bring Republicans on board because Trump has screwed up so badly but putting up an establishment Clinton/Obama Democratic nominee is not the way to get them. I think that much has already been proven. It's why a guy like Richard Ojeda's (Rep.) type of populism resonates in West Virginia. He's much closer to Bernie's pov on issues.

So, yeah, on the surface it appears like the two "populist" groups are at opposite ends of the continuum but they should be joining forces. Check out some of University of Pennsylvania Professor Adolf Reed's views on the subject. He has a number of interviews and lectures on this very topic. Actually, I forgot, the NY Times just published an article on him. Check it out:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/us/adolph-reed-controversy.html

[thebuzzardman]

I think if you go back and read it, he agreed with meeeeeeee! lol

Also, there is case to be made that Trump populism and Bernie populism are opposite sides of the same coin, generally speaking.

Which brings me to my next point. BallSac and I used to hit each other upside the head with 2x4s back in the day over at Current Events thread before tsherkin banned me for life. BallSac and I also had a lot of laughs too. He and I will fight over our politics but at the end of the day I like his sense of humor more than I hate his politics.

I cut a couple of unnecessary words out Wingo. j4remi

Yeah, the far left and far right generally get close in corrupted societies. You know, like Germany and Italy in the 30's...

No, not like that at all. You know what I mean. Bernie the autocrat! I like to think at least we on the left have refined our agenda and I, for one, think it stands up today. As far as right-wing populism goes, the country has ignored rural Americans as manufacturing jobs left the country due to bad trade deals and the concomitant degradation and deterioration of their communities ensued. While democrats ignored them, Fox news and rightwing radio exploited them. That's why many of those voters would've voted for Bernie instead of Hillary in '16 and Bernie would've won. There are a few here on this thread that want to try and bring Republicans on board because Trump has screwed up so badly but putting up an establishment Clinton/Obama Democratic nominee is not the way to get them. I think that much has already been proven. It's why a guy like Richard Ojeda's (Rep.) type of populism resonates in West Virginia. He's much closer to Bernie's pov on issues.

So, yeah, on the surface it appears like the two "populist" groups are at opposite ends of the continuum but they should be joining forces. Check out some of University of Pennsylvania Professor Adolf Reed's views on the subject. He has a number of interviews and lectures on this very topic. Actually, I forgot, the NY Times just published an article on him. Check it out:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/us/adolph-reed-controversy.html

I get what you are saying. I'm aware of the "new democrats" pivot away from labor in the mid 70's, and towards the burbs etc.

I'm sincerely not sure that these groups of people haven't been both marginalized and propagandized and that the oligarchical hold too strong that we aren't headed for a "weimar era" correction.

Hell, we are half in it already.

I feel their pain. It's unfortunate.

Watch on YouTube

[BallSacBounce]

Eisenhower last address to the nation. The one warning of the dangers of the scientific-technological elite and the military-industrial complex. It's all come to pass. Scary.

I know. I hate to bring this up during a kumbayah moment like this but we had a 90% marginal tax rate on the top Level income earners back then. The middle class was the backbone of America back then (with also a big push from the G.I. Bill which raise the income level of middle class workers).

Glad to see you concur with the guy who wholeheartedly supports the candidate of the military/industrial complex.

And yeah, we get that Biden, or really 98% of democrats since, oh, 1975, have been supporters as well.

But Trump isn't some f*cking populist hero here.

He's just been running a "bootleg Reagan" playbook the entire time, only instead of people content with horsesh*t nostalgia and 1880's economics dressed up as new "supply side" policy, they wanted someone to be an avatar for their anger.

And sure, people SHOULD be angry at the fact that there was a class struggle where the oligarchical class ran reactionary politics, strategizing the move from the early 70's on, and getting "their guy" in the 80's, and the Dems capitulated and sold out quick.

But again, Trump is just another BS version of Reagan. Sell the proles on some racist, nostalgic throwback bs, his own personal, stupid, angry (and racist, for some) style fits well with the anger of white voters unaccustomed to getting the sh*tty end of the stick for extended periods. Meanwhile, it's all a cynical ploy, where various rich types get the government policies they favor - deregulation of business until it's completely unregulated, tax breaks that favor the wealthy, etc etc.

Trust me, I get Trump was a bit of an accident for the Republicans. Threw them off a bit that the right wing culture war BS they use to troll for votes among their base actually rose up and produced a candidate that section of the party wanted, but the party was well equipped to use it, because they know a bs cynic when they see one; it's only been the platform of the party for years.

So, they pivoted and have let Trump foam at the mouth with his meaningless bs for the cameras, while the republican party enacts the same agenda they've followed for 45 years, which isn't THAT different from the ones the democrats do, though obviously way more blunt in their pursuit of policies that ONLY favor the rich.

It's hilarious to me when people think Trump is anything different. He and his family are here to get in on the action; not change it. He's the type of leader a country produces when it's already hopelessly corrupt and no longer cares about governing or the people and is way past even pretending. Just content to stoke their anger and profit.

It's hilarious to me when people say Trump isn't any different. That man has been fought against tooth and nail by the establishment and there is a damn reason for it and it isn't because he's obnoxious, he is. It isn't because he is an ass...., he is. It's because he's costing them a lot of **** money. You're a grownup, surely you can figure this out. It's always about the money.

Trump's replacing of NAFTA, placing tariffs on Chinese goods and curbing illegal immigration has really **** up the globalist plans. You were being slowly eaten alive by them and Trump is the man that's saving you. Not that half of you even deserve it.

Hold on there just a second. Are you saying you voted for the Queen of Neocons Hillary Clinton instead of Trump? Who are you to criticize and you're at least semi-wrong about Trump anyway and it's the most important part. He doesn't get us into wars.

There were two reasons I was happy Barack Obama won in spite of my who I would rather have politically. He's our first Black President and John McCain would have for sure found a real good war to get us into. He was an animal. The most dangerous man in congress.

It was hilarious to me when Democrats held up John McCain as some exemplar of righteous virtue when he died. Every time that man touched down in the Middle East there was yet another conflagration. Then again maybe that's why they did it.

That's the establishment. It's both Democrat and Republican. Hillary said about Mohamar Gaddafi "We came. We saw. He died" then she cackled like a hyena in a TV interview. The Africans being sold now in the Libyan slave trade sure aren't laughing and smiling about it. But then it's always been about money. The right people were paid off for that execution. From what I've heard from people that lived in that area his people liked him. He accomplished a lot there.

[BallSacBounce]

Should have at least made sure Amazon would take the deliveries after defunding the USPS. Another L for Trump imo:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Only postmarked ballots are eligible to be counted. Only the USPS is authorized to do that. You have to change the law.

I think you're not seeing the big picture here with Trump's actions. Trump moves to improve USPS functioning (that's what he says) and Dems freak out.

What was the desired result? Dems wanted to really open up mail in voting they think it benefits them.

What is the end result here?
People are afraid to mail in their ballots and will insist on voting in person. Trump wins again.

[HarthorneWingo]

I know. I hate to bring this up during a kumbayah moment like this but we had a 90% marginal tax rate on the top Level income earners back then. The middle class was the backbone of America back then (with also a big push from the G.I. Bill which raise the income level of middle class workers).

Glad to see you concur with the guy who wholeheartedly supports the candidate of the military/industrial complex.

And yeah, we get that Biden, or really 98% of democrats since, oh, 1975, have been supporters as well.

But Trump isn't some f*cking populist hero here.

He's just been running a "bootleg Reagan" playbook the entire time, only instead of people content with horsesh*t nostalgia and 1880's economics dressed up as new "supply side" policy, they wanted someone to be an avatar for their anger.

And sure, people SHOULD be angry at the fact that there was a class struggle where the oligarchical class ran reactionary politics, strategizing the move from the early 70's on, and getting "their guy" in the 80's, and the Dems capitulated and sold out quick.

But again, Trump is just another BS version of Reagan. Sell the proles on some racist, nostalgic throwback bs, his own personal, stupid, angry (and racist, for some) style fits well with the anger of white voters unaccustomed to getting the sh*tty end of the stick for extended periods. Meanwhile, it's all a cynical ploy, where various rich types get the government policies they favor - deregulation of business until it's completely unregulated, tax breaks that favor the wealthy, etc etc.

Trust me, I get Trump was a bit of an accident for the Republicans. Threw them off a bit that the right wing culture war BS they use to troll for votes among their base actually rose up and produced a candidate that section of the party wanted, but the party was well equipped to use it, because they know a bs cynic when they see one; it's only been the platform of the party for years.

So, they pivoted and have let Trump foam at the mouth with his meaningless bs for the cameras, while the republican party enacts the same agenda they've followed for 45 years, which isn't THAT different from the ones the democrats do, though obviously way more blunt in their pursuit of policies that ONLY favor the rich.

It's hilarious to me when people think Trump is anything different. He and his family are here to get in on the action; not change it. He's the type of leader a country produces when it's already hopelessly corrupt and no longer cares about governing or the people and is way past even pretending. Just content to stoke their anger and profit.

It's hilarious to me when people say Trump isn't any different. That man has been fought against tooth and nail by the establishment and there is a damn reason for it and it isn't because he's obnoxious, he is. It isn't because he is an ass...., he is. It's because he's costing them a lot of **** money. You're a grownup, surely you can figure this out. It's always about the money.

Trump's replacing of NAFTA, placing tariffs on Chinese goods and curbing illegal immigration has really **** up the globalist plans. You were being slowly eaten alive by them and Trump is the man that's saving you. Not that half of you even deserve it.

Hold on there just a second. Are you saying you voted for the Queen of Neocons Hillary Clinton instead of Trump? Who are you to criticize and you're at least semi-wrong about Trump anyway and it's the most important part. He doesn't get us into wars.

There were two reasons I was happy Barack Obama won in spite of my who I would rather have politically. He's our first Black President and John McCain would have for sure found a real good war to get us into. He was an animal. The most dangerous man in congress.

It was hilarious to me when Democrats held up John McCain as some exemplar of righteous virtue when he died. Every time that man touched down in the Middle East there was yet another conflagration. Then again maybe that's why they did it.

That's the establishment. It's both Democrat and Republican. Hillary said about Mohamar Gaddafi "We came. We saw. He died" then she cackled like a hyena in a TV interview. The Africans being sold now in the Li in byan slave trade sure aren't laughing and smiling about it. But then it's always been about money. The right people were paid off for that execution. From what I've heard from people that lived in that area his people liked him. He accomplished a lot there.

Admittedly, I’m not fully boned up on my U.S.-China trade relations (that’s on the list) bit that may be the one area where the Trump administration may have gotten it right though Trump’s tweets and behavior towards China seemed to meander IMO.

The area that most concerns me are the Republican influx of their judges. It’s the reason why I urged then and continue to urge that people vote for the Democrat.

Yeah, it get complicated.

Would you m have voted for Bernie in a general?

[thebuzzardman]

I know. I hate to bring this up during a kumbayah moment like this but we had a 90% marginal tax rate on the top Level income earners back then. The middle class was the backbone of America back then (with also a big push from the G.I. Bill which raise the income level of middle class workers).

Glad to see you concur with the guy who wholeheartedly supports the candidate of the military/industrial complex.

And yeah, we get that Biden, or really 98% of democrats since, oh, 1975, have been supporters as well.

But Trump isn't some f*cking populist hero here.

He's just been running a "bootleg Reagan" playbook the entire time, only instead of people content with horsesh*t nostalgia and 1880's economics dressed up as new "supply side" policy, they wanted someone to be an avatar for their anger.

And sure, people SHOULD be angry at the fact that there was a class struggle where the oligarchical class ran reactionary politics, strategizing the move from the early 70's on, and getting "their guy" in the 80's, and the Dems capitulated and sold out quick.

But again, Trump is just another BS version of Reagan. Sell the proles on some racist, nostalgic throwback bs, his own personal, stupid, angry (and racist, for some) style fits well with the anger of white voters unaccustomed to getting the sh*tty end of the stick for extended periods. Meanwhile, it's all a cynical ploy, where various rich types get the government policies they favor - deregulation of business until it's completely unregulated, tax breaks that favor the wealthy, etc etc.

Trust me, I get Trump was a bit of an accident for the Republicans. Threw them off a bit that the right wing culture war BS they use to troll for votes among their base actually rose up and produced a candidate that section of the party wanted, but the party was well equipped to use it, because they know a bs cynic when they see one; it's only been the platform of the party for years.

So, they pivoted and have let Trump foam at the mouth with his meaningless bs for the cameras, while the republican party enacts the same agenda they've followed for 45 years, which isn't THAT different from the ones the democrats do, though obviously way more blunt in their pursuit of policies that ONLY favor the rich.

It's hilarious to me when people think Trump is anything different. He and his family are here to get in on the action; not change it. He's the type of leader a country produces when it's already hopelessly corrupt and no longer cares about governing or the people and is way past even pretending. Just content to stoke their anger and profit.

It's hilarious to me when people say Trump isn't any different. That man has been fought against tooth and nail by the establishment and there is a damn reason for it and it isn't because he's obnoxious, he is. It isn't because he is an ass...., he is. It's because he's costing them a lot of **** money. You're a grownup, surely you can figure this out. It's always about the money.

Trump's replacing of NAFTA, placing tariffs on Chinese goods and curbing illegal immigration has really **** up the globalist plans. You were being slowly eaten alive by them and Trump is the man that's saving you. Not that half of you even deserve it.

Hold on there just a second. Are you saying you voted for the Queen of Neocons Hillary Clinton instead of Trump? Who are you to criticize and you're at least semi-wrong about Trump anyway and it's the most important part. He doesn't get us into wars.

There were two reasons I was happy Barack Obama won in spite of my who I would rather have politically. He's our first Black President and John McCain would have for sure found a real good war to get us into. He was an animal. The most dangerous man in congress.

It was hilarious to me when Democrats held up John McCain as some exemplar of righteous virtue when he died. Every time that man touched down in the Middle East there was yet another conflagration. Then again maybe that's why they did it.

That's the establishment. It's both Democrat and Republican. Hillary said about Mohamar Gaddafi "We came. We saw. He died" then she cackled like a hyena in a TV interview. The Africans being sold now in the Libyan slave trade sure aren't laughing and smiling about it. But then it's always been about money. The right people were paid off for that execution. From what I've heard from people that lived in that area his people liked him. He accomplished a lot there.

Oh noes. It's the dirty "internationalists"

Meanwhile, most of what ails American is changes to domestic economic practices, and those were wrought largely by the republican party, and then with the democratic participation.

Trump is no different. He just puts on a better show, the show geared towards this time, which is anger/nostalgia.

[thebuzzardman]

Glad to see you concur with the guy who wholeheartedly supports the candidate of the military/industrial complex.

And yeah, we get that Biden, or really 98% of democrats since, oh, 1975, have been supporters as well.

But Trump isn't some f*cking populist hero here.

He's just been running a "bootleg Reagan" playbook the entire time, only instead of people content with horsesh*t nostalgia and 1880's economics dressed up as new "supply side" policy, they wanted someone to be an avatar for their anger.

And sure, people SHOULD be angry at the fact that there was a class struggle where the oligarchical class ran reactionary politics, strategizing the move from the early 70's on, and getting "their guy" in the 80's, and the Dems capitulated and sold out quick.

But again, Trump is just another BS version of Reagan. Sell the proles on some racist, nostalgic throwback bs, his own personal, stupid, angry (and racist, for some) style fits well with the anger of white voters unaccustomed to getting the sh*tty end of the stick for extended periods. Meanwhile, it's all a cynical ploy, where various rich types get the government policies they favor - deregulation of business until it's completely unregulated, tax breaks that favor the wealthy, etc etc.

Trust me, I get Trump was a bit of an accident for the Republicans. Threw them off a bit that the right wing culture war BS they use to troll for votes among their base actually rose up and produced a candidate that section of the party wanted, but the party was well equipped to use it, because they know a bs cynic when they see one; it's only been the platform of the party for years.

So, they pivoted and have let Trump foam at the mouth with his meaningless bs for the cameras, while the republican party enacts the same agenda they've followed for 45 years, which isn't THAT different from the ones the democrats do, though obviously way more blunt in their pursuit of policies that ONLY favor the rich.

It's hilarious to me when people think Trump is anything different. He and his family are here to get in on the action; not change it. He's the type of leader a country produces when it's already hopelessly corrupt and no longer cares about governing or the people and is way past even pretending. Just content to stoke their anger and profit.

It's hilarious to me when people say Trump isn't any different. That man has been fought against tooth and nail by the establishment and there is a damn reason for it and it isn't because he's obnoxious, he is. It isn't because he is an ass...., he is. It's because he's costing them a lot of **** money. You're a grownup, surely you can figure this out. It's always about the money.

Trump's replacing of NAFTA, placing tariffs on Chinese goods and curbing illegal immigration has really **** up the globalist plans. You were being slowly eaten alive by them and Trump is the man that's saving you. Not that half of you even deserve it.

Hold on there just a second. Are you saying you voted for the Queen of Neocons Hillary Clinton instead of Trump? Who are you to criticize and you're at least semi-wrong about Trump anyway and it's the most important part. He doesn't get us into wars.

There were two reasons I was happy Barack Obama won in spite of my who I would rather have politically. He's our first Black President and John McCain would have for sure found a real good war to get us into. He was an animal. The most dangerous man in congress.

It was hilarious to me when Democrats held up John McCain as some exemplar of righteous virtue when he died. Every time that man touched down in the Middle East there was yet another conflagration. Then again maybe that's why they did it.

That's the establishment. It's both Democrat and Republican. Hillary said about Mohamar Gaddafi "We came. We saw. He died" then she cackled like a hyena in a TV interview. The Africans being sold now in the Li in byan slave trade sure aren't laughing and smiling about it. But then it's always been about money. The right people were paid off for that execution. From what I've heard from people that lived in that area his people liked him. He accomplished a lot there.

Admittedly, I’m not fully boned up on my U.S.-China trade relations (that’s on the list) bit that may be the one area where the Trump administration may have gotten it right though Trump’s tweets and behavior towards China seemed to meander IMO.

The area that most concerns me are the Republican influx of their judges. It’s the reason why I urged then and continue to urge that people vote for the Democrat.

Yeah, it get complicated.

Would you m have voted for Bernie in a general?

Installing judges is another pathway towards wack ass Chicago school of economics libertarianism via judicial activism, which is just a fancy, self absorbed version of "let's get back to 1880 business practices", though it's performed under the noble guise of being a constitutional "originalist" even though the entire premise is a crock

[BallSacBounce]

I know. I hate to bring this up during a kumbayah moment like this but we had a 90% marginal tax rate on the top Level income earners back then. The middle class was the backbone of America back then (with also a big push from the G.I. Bill which raise the income level of middle class workers).

Glad to see you concur with the guy who wholeheartedly supports the candidate of the military/industrial complex.

And yeah, we get that Biden, or really 98% of democrats since, oh, 1975, have been supporters as well.

But Trump isn't some f*cking populist hero here.

He's just been running a "bootleg Reagan" playbook the entire time, only instead of people content with horsesh*t nostalgia and 1880's economics dressed up as new "supply side" policy, they wanted someone to be an avatar for their anger.

And sure, people SHOULD be angry at the fact that there was a class struggle where the oligarchical class ran reactionary politics, strategizing the move from the early 70's on, and getting "their guy" in the 80's, and the Dems capitulated and sold out quick.

But again, Trump is just another BS version of Reagan. Sell the proles on some racist, nostalgic throwback bs, his own personal, stupid, angry (and racist, for some) style fits well with the anger of white voters unaccustomed to getting the sh*tty end of the stick for extended periods. Meanwhile, it's all a cynical ploy, where various rich types get the government policies they favor - deregulation of business until it's completely unregulated, tax breaks that favor the wealthy, etc etc.

Trust me, I get Trump was a bit of an accident for the Republicans. Threw them off a bit that the right wing culture war BS they use to troll for votes among their base actually rose up and produced a candidate that section of the party wanted, but the party was well equipped to use it, because they know a bs cynic when they see one; it's only been the platform of the party for years.

So, they pivoted and have let Trump foam at the mouth with his meaningless bs for the cameras, while the republican party enacts the same agenda they've followed for 45 years, which isn't THAT different from the ones the democrats do, though obviously way more blunt in their pursuit of policies that ONLY favor the rich.

It's hilarious to me when people think Trump is anything different. He and his family are here to get in on the action; not change it. He's the type of leader a country produces when it's already hopelessly corrupt and no longer cares about governing or the people and is way past even pretending. Just content to stoke their anger and profit.

I think if you go back and read it, he agreed with meeeeeeee! lol

Also, there is case to be made that Trump populism and Bernie populism are opposite sides of the same coin, generally speaking.

Which brings me to my next point. BallSac and I used to hit each other upside the head with 2x4s back in the day over at Current Events thread before tsherkin banned me for life. BallSac and I also had a lot of laughs too. He and I will fight over our politics but at the end of the day I like his sense of humor more than I hate his politics.

I cut a couple of unnecessary words out Wingo. j4remi

But yeah, we can argue politics like a SOB but so what. Most of us if going out for a beer or whatever are going to enjoy the time. That's what's really real. The arguing is our opinion about matters we have no control over and we could easily be very wrong about.

I know some people here are certainly wrong about who they think I am as a person because they don't take the time to understand or contemplate my motives.

It's like Joe Biden said about that the advice that Mahoney guy former Den Speaker of the House. There were two things first was try to understand and see what their constituents saw in your
colleagues.

The second was a story Mahoney told him about a Republican that young Senator Biden had disparaged saying he had no heart or something like that because he opposed some bill.

The story was a young black child was in the newspaper and all he wanted for Christmas was to be adopted. So that Republican Senator that Biden called a racist adopted him. The advice was
"Never question another man's motive. Question his judgment but never his motive." As true today as ever.


And you're right Wingo there is certainly overlap between Trump and Bernie supporters. We both know the system is **** and needs an overhaul. We just want to fix it differently.

In 2016 Occupy Wall Street went to Breitbart and asked to publish an OpEd asking for our support and saying for us to abandon Trump as he was unpalatable and let's come to some sort of meeting of the minds. Breitbart published it.

The thing the establishment can't afford is for people to come together. Thats why they fan the flames on things that we differ on so damn hard.

George Floyd, we can all agree that was outrageous and actions need to be taken. Why couldn't they just let that happen and let this nation start to heal. But nope, they can't afford that.

[thebuzzardman]

Glad to see you concur with the guy who wholeheartedly supports the candidate of the military/industrial complex.

And yeah, we get that Biden, or really 98% of democrats since, oh, 1975, have been supporters as well.

But Trump isn't some f*cking populist hero here.

He's just been running a "bootleg Reagan" playbook the entire time, only instead of people content with horsesh*t nostalgia and 1880's economics dressed up as new "supply side" policy, they wanted someone to be an avatar for their anger.

And sure, people SHOULD be angry at the fact that there was a class struggle where the oligarchical class ran reactionary politics, strategizing the move from the early 70's on, and getting "their guy" in the 80's, and the Dems capitulated and sold out quick.

But again, Trump is just another BS version of Reagan. Sell the proles on some racist, nostalgic throwback bs, his own personal, stupid, angry (and racist, for some) style fits well with the anger of white voters unaccustomed to getting the sh*tty end of the stick for extended periods. Meanwhile, it's all a cynical ploy, where various rich types get the government policies they favor - deregulation of business until it's completely unregulated, tax breaks that favor the wealthy, etc etc.

Trust me, I get Trump was a bit of an accident for the Republicans. Threw them off a bit that the right wing culture war BS they use to troll for votes among their base actually rose up and produced a candidate that section of the party wanted, but the party was well equipped to use it, because they know a bs cynic when they see one; it's only been the platform of the party for years.

So, they pivoted and have let Trump foam at the mouth with his meaningless bs for the cameras, while the republican party enacts the same agenda they've followed for 45 years, which isn't THAT different from the ones the democrats do, though obviously way more blunt in their pursuit of policies that ONLY favor the rich.

It's hilarious to me when people think Trump is anything different. He and his family are here to get in on the action; not change it. He's the type of leader a country produces when it's already hopelessly corrupt and no longer cares about governing or the people and is way past even pretending. Just content to stoke their anger and profit.

I think if you go back and read it, he agreed with meeeeeeee! lol

Also, there is case to be made that Trump populism and Bernie populism are opposite sides of the same coin, generally speaking.

Which brings me to my next point. BallSac and I used to hit each other upside the head with 2x4s back in the day over at Current Events thread before tsherkin banned me for life. BallSac and I also had a lot of laughs too. He and I will fight over our politics but at the end of the day I like his sense of humor more than I hate his politics.

I cut a couple of unnecessary words out Wingo. j4remi

But yeah, we can argue politics like a SOB but so what. Most of us if going out for a beer or whatever are going to enjoy the time. That's what's really real. The arguing is our opinion about matters we have no control over and we could easily be very wrong about.

I know some people here are certainly wrong about who they think I am as a person because they don't take the time to understand or contemplate my motives.

It's like Joe Biden said about that the advice that Mahoney guy former Den Speaker of the House. There were two things first was try to understand and see what their constituents saw in your
colleagues.

The second was a story Mahoney told him about a Republican that young Senator Biden had disparaged saying he had no heart or something like that because he opposed some bill.

The story was a young black child was in the newspaper and all he wanted for Christmas was to be adopted. So that Republican Senator that Biden called a racist adopted him. The advice was
"Never question another man's motive. Question his judgment but never his motive." As true today as ever.


And you're right Wingo there is certainly overlap between Trump and Bernie supporters. We both know the system is **** and needs an overhaul. We just want to fix it differently.

In 2016 Occupy Wall Street went to Breitbart and asked to publish an OpEd asking for our support and saying for us to abandon Trump as he was unpalatable and let's come to some sort of meeting of the minds. Breitbart published it.

The thing the establishment can't afford is for people to come together. Thats why they fan the flames on things that we differ on so damn hard.

George Floyd, we can all agree that was outrageous and actions need to be taken. Why couldn't they just let that happen and let this nation start to heal. But nope, they can't afford that.

I'm not judging you.

I get the establishment will go after people who are different, but it's also possible they suck AND they are going after Trump because he sucks worse.

I'm not a fan of Hilary nor either political party's behavior over the last 30 years (probably more like 45 years), but I know when a segment of the population got used by an opportunist and how the Republican party is willing to exercise it's traditional goals though that person, because they care more about winning and their goals (aiding the rich\corporations) more than any damage he'll do. In spite of Trump's populists noises, which he doesn't even believe in.

Again, I see I see him as a byproduct of a nearly hopelessly corrupt political system, not the savior of it. At all.

Maybe he'll scare the sh*t out of the elites enough that they sh*t on everyone's head so bad for so long it go so bad people would turn to such a horrible idea like Trump, and as a result, the elites back off on their levels of greed, if only to prevent the REAL rioting in the streets that is only a short time away.

Then again, they've spent 45 years getting laws passed, packing the courts, spending billions on billions on lobbyists, totally killed anti trust laws, and they're going to give that up? Sure. If FORCED, they'll unwind from that power. Probably take, oh, about another 45 years.

Of course, it'll be too late by then.

I'll vote, and vote against Trump, but no real change is coming, regardless of who the candidate is. And that would include comrade Bernie as well. He'd be pissing in the wind for 4 years, not that he's have a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected.

[BallSacBounce]

Glad to see you concur with the guy who wholeheartedly supports the candidate of the military/industrial complex.

And yeah, we get that Biden, or really 98% of democrats since, oh, 1975, have been supporters as well.

But Trump isn't some f*cking populist hero here.

He's just been running a "bootleg Reagan" playbook the entire time, only instead of people content with horsesh*t nostalgia and 1880's economics dressed up as new "supply side" policy, they wanted someone to be an avatar for their anger.

And sure, people SHOULD be angry at the fact that there was a class struggle where the oligarchical class ran reactionary politics, strategizing the move from the early 70's on, and getting "their guy" in the 80's, and the Dems capitulated and sold out quick.

But again, Trump is just another BS version of Reagan. Sell the proles on some racist, nostalgic throwback bs, his own personal, stupid, angry (and racist, for some) style fits well with the anger of white voters unaccustomed to getting the sh*tty end of the stick for extended periods. Meanwhile, it's all a cynical ploy, where various rich types get the government policies they favor - deregulation of business until it's completely unregulated, tax breaks that favor the wealthy, etc etc.

Trust me, I get Trump was a bit of an accident for the Republicans. Threw them off a bit that the right wing culture war BS they use to troll for votes among their base actually rose up and produced a candidate that section of the party wanted, but the party was well equipped to use it, because they know a bs cynic when they see one; it's only been the platform of the party for years.

So, they pivoted and have let Trump foam at the mouth with his meaningless bs for the cameras, while the republican party enacts the same agenda they've followed for 45 years, which isn't THAT different from the ones the democrats do, though obviously way more blunt in their pursuit of policies that ONLY favor the rich.

It's hilarious to me when people think Trump is anything different. He and his family are here to get in on the action; not change it. He's the type of leader a country produces when it's already hopelessly corrupt and no longer cares about governing or the people and is way past even pretending. Just content to stoke their anger and profit.

It's hilarious to me when people say Trump isn't any different. That man has been fought against tooth and nail by the establishment and there is a damn reason for it and it isn't because he's obnoxious, he is. It isn't because he is an ass...., he is. It's because he's costing them a lot of **** money. You're a grownup, surely you can figure this out. It's always about the money.

Trump's replacing of NAFTA, placing tariffs on Chinese goods and curbing illegal immigration has really **** up the globalist plans. You were being slowly eaten alive by them and Trump is the man that's saving you. Not that half of you even deserve it.

Hold on there just a second. Are you saying you voted for the Queen of Neocons Hillary Clinton instead of Trump? Who are you to criticize and you're at least semi-wrong about Trump anyway and it's the most important part. He doesn't get us into wars.

There were two reasons I was happy Barack Obama won in spite of my who I would rather have politically. He's our first Black President and John McCain would have for sure found a real good war to get us into. He was an animal. The most dangerous man in congress.

It was hilarious to me when Democrats held up John McCain as some exemplar of righteous virtue when he died. Every time that man touched down in the Middle East there was yet another conflagration. Then again maybe that's why they did it.

That's the establishment. It's both Democrat and Republican. Hillary said about Mohamar Gaddafi "We came. We saw. He died" then she cackled like a hyena in a TV interview. The Africans being sold now in the Li in byan slave trade sure aren't laughing and smiling about it. But then it's always been about money. The right people were paid off for that execution. From what I've heard from people that lived in that area his people liked him. He accomplished a lot there.

Admittedly, I’m not fully boned up on my U.S.-China trade relations (that’s on the list) bit that may be the one area where the Trump administration may have gotten it right though Trump’s tweets and behavior towards China seemed to meander IMO.

The area that most concerns me are the Republican influx of their judges. It’s the reason why I urged then and continue to urge that people vote for the Democrat.

Yeah, it get complicated.

Would you m have voted for Bernie in a general?

There is a lot that goes into our China strategy. I'll have to look for a link but I do have one that lays it all out short and sweet.

TheConservativeTreehouse.com is where it'll be from. Sundance the guy who runs it does an amazing job laying out what's going on with two huge things the global reset of supply chains/ceasing the exfiltration of American Wealth and the FISA abuse. Very well laid out.

On Bernie, if it was between John McCain and Bernie its Bernie. But with Trump, I believed him and I have not been disappointed.

Going forward I could be persuaded to vote for a Democrat populist if I believed they would stop with the gun control BS, stop with the green new deal bull anyone in favor of it truly has no clue how things in the real world work, stop dividing people by race and believed in our basic system albeit with significant changes.

Let me give you an example of a place we could meet. Bernie wants free college education for everyone. You know what, we could do it right now we have the technology. But that means doing away with all the things that cost so much like the campus. Maybe have standardized advanced learning and testing centers. Give everyone a laptop. Zoom the learning, whatever.

Sure there are limitations to that approach and maybe some kids won't learn as well that way but maybe there is just so much money and inertia for the old system that we don't even try to do better.

[BallSacBounce]

I think if you go back and read it, he agreed with meeeeeeee! lol

Also, there is case to be made that Trump populism and Bernie populism are opposite sides of the same coin, generally speaking.

Which brings me to my next point. BallSac and I used to hit each other upside the head with 2x4s back in the day over at Current Events thread before tsherkin banned me for life. BallSac and I also had a lot of laughs too. He and I will fight over our politics but at the end of the day I like his sense of humor more than I hate his politics.

I cut a couple of unnecessary words out Wingo. j4remi

But yeah, we can argue politics like a SOB but so what. Most of us if going out for a beer or whatever are going to enjoy the time. That's what's really real. The arguing is our opinion about matters we have no control over and we could easily be very wrong about.

I know some people here are certainly wrong about who they think I am as a person because they don't take the time to understand or contemplate my motives.

It's like Joe Biden said about that the advice that Mahoney guy former Den Speaker of the House. There were two things first was try to understand and see what their constituents saw in your
colleagues.

The second was a story Mahoney told him about a Republican that young Senator Biden had disparaged saying he had no heart or something like that because he opposed some bill.

The story was a young black child was in the newspaper and all he wanted for Christmas was to be adopted. So that Republican Senator that Biden called a racist adopted him. The advice was
"Never question another man's motive. Question his judgment but never his motive." As true today as ever.


And you're right Wingo there is certainly overlap between Trump and Bernie supporters. We both know the system is **** and needs an overhaul. We just want to fix it differently.

In 2016 Occupy Wall Street went to Breitbart and asked to publish an OpEd asking for our support and saying for us to abandon Trump as he was unpalatable and let's come to some sort of meeting of the minds. Breitbart published it.

The thing the establishment can't afford is for people to come together. Thats why they fan the flames on things that we differ on so damn hard.

George Floyd, we can all agree that was outrageous and actions need to be taken. Why couldn't they just let that happen and let this nation start to heal. But nope, they can't afford that.

I'm not judging you.

I get the establishment will go after people who are different, but it's also possible they suck AND they are going after Trump because he sucks worse.

I'm not a fan of Hilary nor either political party's behavior over the last 30 years (probably more like 45 years), but I know when a segment of the population got used by an opportunist and how the Republican party is willing to exercise it's traditional goals though that person, because they care more about winning and their goals (aiding the rich\corporations) more than any damage he'll do. In spite of Trump's populists noises, which he doesn't even believe in.

Again, I see I see him as a byproduct of a nearly hopelessly corrupt political system, not the savior of it. At all.

Maybe he'll scare the sh*t out of the elites enough that they sh*t on everyone's head so bad for so long it go so bad people would turn to such a horrible idea like Trump, and as a result, the elites back off on their levels of greed, if only to prevent the REAL rioting in the streets that is only a short time away.

Then again, they've spent 45 years getting laws passed, packing the courts, spending billions on billions on lobbyists, totally killed anti trust laws, and they're going to give that up? Sure. If FORCED, they'll unwind from that power. Probably take, oh, about another 45 years.

Of course, it'll be too late by then.

I'll vote, and vote against Trump, but no real change is coming, regardless of who the candidate is. And that would include comrade Bernie as well. He'd be pissing in the wind for 4 years, not that he's have a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected.

There is an opening for some things to change. Sure, they have all the power and are going to fight like hell to keep it.

But people are learning they are getting ****. They could sense it was happening but didn't quite know how. The internet has changed that.

I would have been ok with Bernie. The things I would not have liked would have been blunted but I'd rather have a guy with character than some cagey politician.

I would have been in with Ralph Nader back in the day. The man had character. Probably wouldn't have liked his politics but he would have fought to do what he thought was the right thing to do for the average person.

[Oscirus]

Dems really need to ditch this unity bull. I get the feeling that said theme would turn off more progressives than it would convert republican voters.

[BallSacBounce]

https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-drives-around-playing-mailbox-baseball-in-new-vote-suppression-scheme

U.S.—President Trump's vote suppression efforts seem to know no bounds, with his main efforts focused against the USPS to stop mail-in voting. In Trump’s latest attack on democracy, he is now riding around in an SUV playing “mailbox baseball” -- smashing mailboxes with a baseball bat to make it impossible for people to mail in their ballots.

“Try and vote for Biden now!” Trump was heard yelling as he knocked a mailbox off its post.

[Pointgod]

Glad to see you concur with the guy who wholeheartedly supports the candidate of the military/industrial complex.

And yeah, we get that Biden, or really 98% of democrats since, oh, 1975, have been supporters as well.

But Trump isn't some f*cking populist hero here.

He's just been running a "bootleg Reagan" playbook the entire time, only instead of people content with horsesh*t nostalgia and 1880's economics dressed up as new "supply side" policy, they wanted someone to be an avatar for their anger.

And sure, people SHOULD be angry at the fact that there was a class struggle where the oligarchical class ran reactionary politics, strategizing the move from the early 70's on, and getting "their guy" in the 80's, and the Dems capitulated and sold out quick.

But again, Trump is just another BS version of Reagan. Sell the proles on some racist, nostalgic throwback bs, his own personal, stupid, angry (and racist, for some) style fits well with the anger of white voters unaccustomed to getting the sh*tty end of the stick for extended periods. Meanwhile, it's all a cynical ploy, where various rich types get the government policies they favor - deregulation of business until it's completely unregulated, tax breaks that favor the wealthy, etc etc.

Trust me, I get Trump was a bit of an accident for the Republicans. Threw them off a bit that the right wing culture war BS they use to troll for votes among their base actually rose up and produced a candidate that section of the party wanted, but the party was well equipped to use it, because they know a bs cynic when they see one; it's only been the platform of the party for years.

So, they pivoted and have let Trump foam at the mouth with his meaningless bs for the cameras, while the republican party enacts the same agenda they've followed for 45 years, which isn't THAT different from the ones the democrats do, though obviously way more blunt in their pursuit of policies that ONLY favor the rich.

It's hilarious to me when people think Trump is anything different. He and his family are here to get in on the action; not change it. He's the type of leader a country produces when it's already hopelessly corrupt and no longer cares about governing or the people and is way past even pretending. Just content to stoke their anger and profit.

It's hilarious to me when people say Trump isn't any different. That man has been fought against tooth and nail by the establishment and there is a damn reason for it and it isn't because he's obnoxious, he is. It isn't because he is an ass...., he is. It's because he's costing them a lot of **** money. You're a grownup, surely you can figure this out. It's always about the money.

Trump's replacing of NAFTA, placing tariffs on Chinese goods and curbing illegal immigration has really **** up the globalist plans. You were being slowly eaten alive by them and Trump is the man that's saving you. Not that half of you even deserve it.

Hold on there just a second. Are you saying you voted for the Queen of Neocons Hillary Clinton instead of Trump? Who are you to criticize and you're at least semi-wrong about Trump anyway and it's the most important part. He doesn't get us into wars.

There were two reasons I was happy Barack Obama won in spite of my who I would rather have politically. He's our first Black President and John McCain would have for sure found a real good war to get us into. He was an animal. The most dangerous man in congress.

It was hilarious to me when Democrats held up John McCain as some exemplar of righteous virtue when he died. Every time that man touched down in the Middle East there was yet another conflagration. Then again maybe that's why they did it.

That's the establishment. It's both Democrat and Republican. Hillary said about Mohamar Gaddafi "We came. We saw. He died" then she cackled like a hyena in a TV interview. The Africans being sold now in the Li in byan slave trade sure aren't laughing and smiling about it. But then it's always been about money. The right people were paid off for that execution. From what I've heard from people that lived in that area his people liked him. He accomplished a lot there.

Admittedly, I’m not fully boned up on my U.S.-China trade relations (that’s on the list) bit that may be the one area where the Trump administration may have gotten it right though Trump’s tweets and behavior towards China seemed to meander IMO.

The area that most concerns me are the Republican influx of their judges. It’s the reason why I urged then and continue to urge that people vote for the Democrat.

Yeah, it get complicated.

Would you m have voted for Bernie in a general?

Serious question knowing what you know about Trump why the hell would you think he’s ever gotten anything right? Don’t let BallSacBounce lie to you, you can look this stuff up yourself. The trade war has been a disaster.

https://www.axios.com/us-china-trade-war-tariffs-tiktok-huawei-135dec88-7de3-42e9-9981-209bae3bf279.html

Why it matters: The tariffs continue to impress a sizable tax on U.S. companies and consumers, adding additional costs and red tape for small businesses, farmers, manufacturers and households trying to stay afloat amid the pandemic.

What's happening: The "phase one" deal was cheered by investors as a positive first step, because it stopped a tit-for-tat tariff escalation that was poised to add a tax to nearly every product traded between the U.S. and China.

However, it did nothing about tariffs on hundreds of billions of dollars of Chinese imports already in place that are paid by U.S. companies.

With the U.S. ratcheting up the pressure, there is a decreasing likelihood China lives up to its "phase one" agreement.

That means a diminished outlook for industries that were counting on the $200 billion in increased purchases of U.S. agriculture, energy and manufacturing after a brutal 2019.

The primary cost of tariffs isn't the tariffs themselves, but the deadweight loss of consumers buying more expensive, or less efficient, products.

The trade war also is a major factor pushing businesses to pull supply chains and production out of China, increasing costs and uprooting longstanding relationships.
For big companies, this will weigh on margins; for small companies, it could mean going out of business.

Here’s a longer analysis by the Brookings Institute. Long story short the trade war with China has been horrible for US businesses and consumers, but here’s the thing the trade deficit with China was just replaced by buying goods from other countries.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2020/08/07/more-pain-than-gain-how-the-us-china-trade-war-hurt-america/

You also can’t ignore that Trump has said nothing about China’s concentration camps and told Xi he’d say nothing about Hong Kong if China would buy goods. So you see BallSacBounce claims that Trump is anti establishment but he’s your typical neocon in policy and actions (ignore the rhetoric).

https://prospect.org/world/trump-white-house-backs-arms-dealers-yemen-raytheon/

Obviously BallSacBounce doesn’t care about the people who are dying in Yemen under Trump but has the gall to bring up Libya (A country with an actual dictator that murdered his own people).

And before you say Biden is just as bad, the expectation is that he’ll reduce spending. I know you’ll probably say you don’t trust Biden, but the analysis is what it is.

https://www.defenseone.com/business/2020/07/bidens-defense-spending-how-much-and-how-fast/166606/

[HarthorneWingo]

If you dare mention the phrase "Medicare For All," the DNC will have a family member of yours liquidated. LOL

[HarthorneWingo]

https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-drives-around-playing-mailbox-baseball-in-new-vote-suppression-scheme

U.S.—President Trump's vote suppression efforts seem to know no bounds, with his main efforts focused against the USPS to stop mail-in voting. In Trump’s latest attack on democracy, he is now riding around in an SUV playing “mailbox baseball” -- smashing mailboxes with a baseball bat to make it impossible for people to mail in their ballots.

“Try and vote for Biden now!” Trump was heard yelling as he knocked a mailbox off its post.

You're not suggesting that Trump and the Republicans haven't attempted to subvert and suppress the vote through control and manipulation of the USPS, are you? Or are you making a different point?

[HarthorneWingo]

[Pointgod]

Anyone that thinks that Trump is anti establishment is a moron. This article literally called it out 4 years ago.

https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/300579-donald-trump-is-the-establishment-no-matter-what-he

Here’s a more recent article that goes into how the Establishment is beginning to sour on their stooge
[url] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/08/trump-republican-party-mcconnell-2020-coronavirus-bill.html [/ur]

Let’s see tax cuts, deregulation, Supreme Court judges, Federal Judges, cutting social security, trying to dismantle Obamacare, increased bombings and drone strikes in the Middle East. Unmitigated support for Israel the list goes on and on. Trump is an Establishment bitch because he has zero ideology beyond scamming people and enriching himself and that’s fine with his billionaire puppet masters as long as they get paid and their perverse religious ideology is pushed.

[HarthorneWingo]