Democratic Primary Thread: The Deuce

[BKlutch]

I don’t think it’s defending the Lincoln Project in as much as saying “hey let’s take all of the help we can get to send Trump packing”. You may not need them to win, but if they can help run up the score it will absolutely be **** huge. There needs to be a strong rebuke of Trump, he needs to be humiliated and the same with the Republicans in the Senate and House. Lincoln Project can absolutely help with that. I compare it to Superman and Lex Luthor being enemies but teaming up together to beat Darkseid (Trump) a potential world ending global threat. Sure you know Lex Luthor is an **** and once Darkseid is defeated he’ll go back to trying to kill Superman but you have to address the problem in front of you first. I wish there was a Lincoln Project in 2016. Hillary would be President right now and the country wouldn’t be a complete and utter **** show.

The thing is, Sam's tweet really only served to point out that Lincoln Project are a team of political strategists who have spent their careers backing strategies to undermine the post office. He didn't acknowledge the efficacy of the idea one way or another, just pointed out that when it comes to policy...The Lincoln Project people are going to lean toward a solution that doesn't help the USPS.

I also don't buy that Hillary would be president with a Lincoln Project around. The Never Trumpers people did PLENTY of criticizing Trump in the lead up to 2016. They tried to beat him with virtually every other Republican option they could find and were highly critical of him even leading up to the election. They got became unwelcome to their party and completely failed. Now they're trying to rehabilitate their images by marketing to Democrats, but I don't see them peeling off many if any Republicans. Those guys have sang the same song since before Trump won in 2016. They just realized who their demographic was to market to.

Like I said, it's cool to accept them as useful right now in whatever capacity you believe it to be. But when somebody points out who these men are, who they always have been and why we should be skeptical of any policy proclamations those GOP rejects get...it's not worth getting hung up on.

Hillary lost the election due to a perfect storm of events. One large part of that is how many people personally disliked her, despite generally agreeing with her politics. It reflected many voters choosing to "try something new - how bad could it be?" It reflected many people thinking Hillary was a shoo-in and Trump was a sick joke who'd never prevail.

Whatever the cause, we can't give up our efforts to make sure that Biden evicts Trump from the White House. Even if some voters didn't select Biden as their first choice, few people actually hate Biden. He's a decent guy and represents the first stop on the path back to normalcy.

[Stannis]

This video is getting a lot of buzz just for a house candidate tbh. Probably more than any Democratic video I have seen so far.

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[BKlutch]

Jibber jabber. Means nothing. What a waste of time to give Kasich any time.

That was my first thought, but now I think differently. What Biden needs to do is win a few swing states. The way he is most likely to do that is to peel off the "outer layer" of less conservative Republicans who just went with the Republican candidate last time. He wants to get the few percent of those voters to go with Biden this time. He wants them to understand Trump is not good for them, for the Republicans, for the Democrats, or for America. It may be helpful - we aren't letting him influence the platform.

[GONYK]

looks like a canary in the coal mine to me. I look for polls with trump ahead to emerge by the end of next month.

Well, there's also this one, from a pollster graded A+ by 538

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I think the CNN may be an outlier. We'll have to see how all the other polls shake out for this time period.

I would like to think you're right. But I don't want to be complacent - none of us should be. Michelle Obama's speech last night addressed this issue - some of us thought our votes didn't matter, some were fed up, some thought Trump would never win, but when the votes were counted, a bad man who lost the popular vote by millions went to the White House.

Whether Biden's lead is large or small, we can't give up until the metaphorical silver stake is pounded through the vampire's heart.

Absolutely no argument on the mindset needed. Everyone should act like Biden is down.

Trump is still in the game because of the time and the electoral college.

[BKlutch]

https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-drives-around-playing-mailbox-baseball-in-new-vote-suppression-scheme

U.S.—President Trump's vote suppression efforts seem to know no bounds, with his main efforts focused against the USPS to stop mail-in voting. In Trump’s latest attack on democracy, he is now riding around in an SUV playing “mailbox baseball” -- smashing mailboxes with a baseball bat to make it impossible for people to mail in their ballots.

“Try and vote for Biden now!” Trump was heard yelling as he knocked a mailbox off its post.

You're not suggesting that Trump and the Republicans haven't attempted to subvert and suppress the vote through control and manipulation of the USPS, are you? Or are you making a different point?

I was having a bit of fun. But regardless no I don't think so. An overhaul has been long overdue they bleed money like crazy and the mails aren't what they used to be with technology.

What I think is he is an expert at chain yanking and now Twitter is all a rage now. The partisans will square off and nothing between them will change. The normals will say **** this **** I want to vote in person I don't trust the mail.

Democrats are using the planned overhaul of the USPS for a couple of reasons. To begin seeding the national psyche that a Trump win is somehow illegitante I mean c'mon they've been doing it for how many years now with the fake ass Russia BS they aren't stopping now.

Also because they think mail in voting will help them. I don't blame them. Voting for Joe Biden isn't getting anyone up early but lick an envelope, sure thing. Republicans don't want it for a couple of reasons, USPS union endorses Biden. Sorry, that removes trust they shouldnt have done that.

https://www.postaltimes.com/postalnews/apwu-executive-board-endorses-joe-biden-for-president/

And they think it opens up the system for fraud and disarray and it does. My God what a freaking mess an all in mail in voting would be. Election might not be decided for weeks.

If you'd like us to believe what you just wrote, please show us valid evidence that mail in voting causes voter fraud or disarray. Strong statements require a strong level of proof.

[GONYK]

Jibber jabber. Means nothing. What a waste of time to give Kasich any time.

That was my first thought, but now I think differently. What Biden needs to do is win a few swing states. The way he is most likely to do that is to peel off the "outer layer" of less conservative Republicans who just went with the Republican candidate last time. He wants to get the few percent of those voters to go with Biden this time. He wants them to understand Trump is not good for them, for the Republicans, for the Democrats, or for America. It may be helpful - we aren't letting him influence the platform.

Kasich was brought on for a specific audience. The people in this thread are not that audience. It's kind of that simple.

[BKlutch]

Trump Voices Concern That Putting Marijuana On The Ballot Makes Republicans Lose

https://www.marijuanamoment.net/trump-voices-concern-that-putting-marijuana-on-the-ballot-makes-republicans-lose/

Putting marijuana in the voting booths would certainly make them lose.

[Stannis]

Trump is still in the game because of the time and the electoral college.

Yep. I think Trump can win, even if he loses the popular vote by 8 million.

[BKlutch]

Jibber jabber. Means nothing. What a waste of time to give Kasich any time.

That was my first thought, but now I think differently. What Biden needs to do is win a few swing states. The way he is most likely to do that is to peel off the "outer layer" of less conservative Republicans who just went with the Republican candidate last time. He wants to get the few percent of those voters to go with Biden this time. He wants them to understand Trump is not good for them, for the Republicans, for the Democrats, or for America. It may be helpful - we aren't letting him influence the platform.

Kasich was brought on for a specific audience. The people in this thread are not that audience. It's kind of that simple.

The Lincoln Project, which was not invited to the convention, is speaking to that same audience. The rest of us can enjoy the LOLZ over what they are saying, but we aren't voting to elect them for anything. We just love seeing them do to Trump what the Picador does to a bull.

For those of you who do't know, this is what the Picador does (For laughs, I've replaced the word "bull' with 'Trump"):
The picador has three main functions in a traditional Trumpfight:
1. To pierce the muscle on the back of the Trump's neck in order to straighten the Trump's charge.
2. To fatigue the Trump's neck muscles and general stamina as it tries to lift the horse with its head.
3. To lower the Trump's head in preparation for the next stage.

[GONYK]

Read on Twitter

[Stannis]

Any substance/truth to this? I'm seeing it everywhere.

Ex-GOP rep speaking at Dem convention once lobbied Biden office while representing Russia
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ex-gop-rep-speaking-at-dem-convention-once-lobbied-biden-office-while-representing-russia

[j4remi]

I don’t think it’s defending the Lincoln Project in as much as saying “hey let’s take all of the help we can get to send Trump packing”. You may not need them to win, but if they can help run up the score it will absolutely be **** huge. There needs to be a strong rebuke of Trump, he needs to be humiliated and the same with the Republicans in the Senate and House. Lincoln Project can absolutely help with that. I compare it to Superman and Lex Luthor being enemies but teaming up together to beat Darkseid (Trump) a potential world ending global threat. Sure you know Lex Luthor is an **** and once Darkseid is defeated he’ll go back to trying to kill Superman but you have to address the problem in front of you first. I wish there was a Lincoln Project in 2016. Hillary would be President right now and the country wouldn’t be a complete and utter **** show.

The thing is, Sam's tweet really only served to point out that Lincoln Project are a team of political strategists who have spent their careers backing strategies to undermine the post office. He didn't acknowledge the efficacy of the idea one way or another, just pointed out that when it comes to policy...The Lincoln Project people are going to lean toward a solution that doesn't help the USPS.

I also don't buy that Hillary would be president with a Lincoln Project around. The Never Trumpers people did PLENTY of criticizing Trump in the lead up to 2016. They tried to beat him with virtually every other Republican option they could find and were highly critical of him even leading up to the election. They got became unwelcome to their party and completely failed. Now they're trying to rehabilitate their images by marketing to Democrats, but I don't see them peeling off many if any Republicans. Those guys have sang the same song since before Trump won in 2016. They just realized who their demographic was to market to.

Like I said, it's cool to accept them as useful right now in whatever capacity you believe it to be. But when somebody points out who these men are, who they always have been and why we should be skeptical of any policy proclamations those GOP rejects get...it's not worth getting hung up on.

Hillary lost the election due to a perfect storm of events. One large part of that is how many people personally disliked her, despite generally agreeing with her politics. It reflected many voters choosing to "try something new - how bad could it be?" It reflected many people thinking Hillary was a shoo-in and Trump was a sick joke who'd never prevail.

Whatever the cause, we can't give up our efforts to make sure that Biden evicts Trump from the White House. Even if some voters didn't select Biden as their first choice, few people actually hate Biden. He's a decent guy and represents the first stop on the path back to normalcy.

I don't disagree with any of this, but the discussion there is more specified to the Lincoln Project and how much we project their impact on election results is. I don't think they would have offset the perfect storm of events in any way, because most of them were already pushing Never Trump rhetoric. It metastasized into something more organized, so I could see disagreement on that but I just don't buy it. Hillary was THAT uniquely disliked (and a lot of that is just decades of GOP mudslinging to be fair but it is what it is).

In the same vein, I don't think the Lincoln Project will have much impact or mean much to Biden winning. For one, he's not disliked like Hillary and the circumstances that set up her loss are non-existent now. For two; a vast majority of Republicans polled have moved toward the Trump side of things and away from the LP line of thinking. They represent a small subset of Republicans whom I believe would already have resigned themselves to either no-showing or voting for Biden with or without the presence of a well funded Lincoln Project.

So I think these guys have a minor impact but that's speculation. I don't bemoan people for saying "even if it helps a little, we should accept it" but I also think it's entirely fair for people to make an effort to constantly remind everybody who the LP is, who they have been and why they shouldn't have any place for influence with the Dems once Trump is out of the way. They may not be Trump; but they were cool with the torture program, lying us into the Iraq war and the foot dragging on addressing the great recession which slowed down Obama's recovery efforts (a strategy that helped the Republicans take back Congress at the expense of American citizens' well-being).

Edit: And just to throw in why I keep stressing this; a Never Trump Republican got the position advising Biden on Latin outreach.

[BKlutch]

The thing is, Sam's tweet really only served to point out that Lincoln Project are a team of political strategists who have spent their careers backing strategies to undermine the post office. He didn't acknowledge the efficacy of the idea one way or another, just pointed out that when it comes to policy...The Lincoln Project people are going to lean toward a solution that doesn't help the USPS.

I also don't buy that Hillary would be president with a Lincoln Project around. The Never Trumpers people did PLENTY of criticizing Trump in the lead up to 2016. They tried to beat him with virtually every other Republican option they could find and were highly critical of him even leading up to the election. They got became unwelcome to their party and completely failed. Now they're trying to rehabilitate their images by marketing to Democrats, but I don't see them peeling off many if any Republicans. Those guys have sang the same song since before Trump won in 2016. They just realized who their demographic was to market to.

Like I said, it's cool to accept them as useful right now in whatever capacity you believe it to be. But when somebody points out who these men are, who they always have been and why we should be skeptical of any policy proclamations those GOP rejects get...it's not worth getting hung up on.

Hillary lost the election due to a perfect storm of events. One large part of that is how many people personally disliked her, despite generally agreeing with her politics. It reflected many voters choosing to "try something new - how bad could it be?" It reflected many people thinking Hillary was a shoo-in and Trump was a sick joke who'd never prevail.

Whatever the cause, we can't give up our efforts to make sure that Biden evicts Trump from the White House. Even if some voters didn't select Biden as their first choice, few people actually hate Biden. He's a decent guy and represents the first stop on the path back to normalcy.

I don't disagree with any of this, but the discussion there is more specified to the Lincoln Project and how much we project their impact on election results is. I don't think they would have offset the perfect storm of events in any way, because most of them were already pushing Never Trump rhetoric. It metastasized into something more organized, so I could see disagreement on that but I just don't buy it. Hillary was THAT uniquely disliked (and a lot of that is just decades of GOP mudslinging to be fair but it is what it is).

In the same vein, I don't think the Lincoln Project will have much impact or mean much to Biden winning. For one, he's not disliked like Hillary and the circumstances that set up her loss are non-existent now. For two; a vast majority of Republicans polled have moved toward the Trump side of things and away from the LP line of thinking. They represent a small subset of Republicans whom I believe would already have resigned themselves to either no-showing or voting for Biden with or without the presence of a well funded Lincoln Project.

So I think these guys have a minor impact but that's speculation. I don't bemoan people for saying "even if it helps a little, we should accept it" but I also think it's entirely fair for people to make an effort to constantly remind everybody who the LP is, who they have been and why they shouldn't have any place for influence with the Dems once Trump is out of the way. They may not be Trump; but they were cool with the torture program, lying us into the Iraq war and the foot dragging on addressing the great recession which slowed down Obama's recovery efforts (a strategy that helped the Republicans take back Congress at the expense of American citizens' well-being).

None of us are going to lionize them or make them seem what they aren't. But they're chipping away at Trump voters and, as such, they're our ally in removing Trump. Once Biden has won, it will be like our relationship with the Soviet Union after the end of WWII. The wartime allies became, once again, adversaries.

[Stannis]

Krystal Ball with some fire tweets lately:

This one is just too funny:

Read on Twitter

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Read on Twitter

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Read on Twitter

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[j4remi]

None of us are going to lionize them or make them seem what they aren't. But they're chipping away at Trump voters and, as such, they're our ally in removing Trump. Once Biden has won, it will be like our relationship with the Soviet Union after the end of WWII. The wartime allies became, once again, adversaries.

I'm all for making these people useful idiots and dumping them when their purpose is served; but I'll continue to make sure nobody forgets who they are until they're actually gone. That doesn't hurt Biden, only the Lincoln Project members and any long term plans they might have for trying to sneak into and influence the party. Ana Navarro's hiring makes a bit of sense to me but also makes me nervous about these Republicans really sneaking into influential roles.

[Stannis]

[EricAnderson]

The progressive Bernie Bro’s are annoying as hell.. Trying to say there not gonna vote for anyone out of spite.

I’m sorry but going far left is not the answer. You’re not gonna win pandering to the extreme fringes of your party.

Besides the far left/progressives will always eat their own eventually anyway.

There looking for some perfect human being who doesn’t exist.

Anyone who’s ever made a mistake they want their heads.

You could have the progressive candidate they all want but then they’d find some quote the person made from 1982 that they feel is anti trans or something and they’d throw that candidate under the bus.

[Pointgod]

Krystal Ball with some fire tweets lately:

This one is just too funny:

Read on Twitter

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Read on Twitter

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Ooooh Krystal really channeling that edgy teen energy. Too bad she’s a grown woman.

[HarthorneWingo]

Jibber jabber. Means nothing. What a waste of time to give Kasich any time.

That was my first thought, but now I think differently. What Biden needs to do is win a few swing states. The way he is most likely to do that is to peel off the "outer layer" of less conservative Republicans who just went with the Republican candidate last time. He wants to get the few percent of those voters to go with Biden this time. He wants them to understand Trump is not good for them, for the Republicans, for the Democrats, or for America. It may be helpful - we aren't letting him influence the platform.

I'd like to see the research that purportedly supports the notion that trotting out John Kasich will pick up "x" number of votes. Ohio is 42% Republican-leaning, 40% Democrat-leaning, and 18% Independent. We don't need the Republican vote and times have changed drastically. Kasich has a history of anti-worker and anti-woman.

[HarthorneWingo]

Krystal Ball with some fire tweets lately:

This one is just too funny:

Read on Twitter

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Read on Twitter

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Read on Twitter

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Ooooh Krystal really channeling that edgy teen energy. Too bad she’s a grown woman.

Maybe you could explain why you feel like that? I'm 62 years old and feel that she hit the proverbial nail on the head, once again.