Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season

[ProspectPark]

Holiday will likely not even make either All Defensive Team this year. You are vastly overrating his defense. And as I said the Pelicans were absolutely terrible defensively. He's not as good as he once was.

He has been a stud defensively. he will get DPOTY votes (not win) and should make all-nba defense. you keep talkin about team defense. he plays on a team full of young offense only players. who played super small and with zion being a defensive liability for most of the year when he came back.

guy is an absolute bulldog.

I don't think hes better than LeVert offensively at this point in his career. And he can't really play off ball because hes not a great shooter.

There really is no debate he is better than levert offensively. he is more productive as a 2nd/3rd option than levert is as a 1st option. and if anyone is a non-option off the ball is levert. levert has pretty much shown all 4 years he is not productive off ball. levert is also a poor off-ball shooter.

Hes good, but hes declining and hes on the wrong side of 30 with a bad contract. No interest at all in giving up Levert, Dinwiddie, Allen picks.
Hard pass.

How is he declining? he just had arguably the best season of his career. did you watch much of the pelicans? he is an ENORMOUS upgrade to either dinwiddie or levert. on BOTH ends (well maybe not offensively a huge upgrade ot dinwiddie but sitll better)

How to set the franchise back 10 years:

Step 1. In a league dominated by 7 foot giants who can do it all (Giannis, Kawhi, KD, Lebron, AD, PG, Simmons, Embiid, Jokic, Butler, Middleton, Tatum, Siakam, Luka)

We already have one 5’11 guy making the max. Now let’s get rid of all our depth and add a 2nd 5’11 guy and give him the max too.

That’s it. That’s how you set the franchise back a decade.

[vincecarter4pres]

Holiday will likely not even make either All Defensive Team this year. You are vastly overrating his defense. And as I said the Pelicans were absolutely terrible defensively. He's not as good as he once was.

He has been a stud defensively. he will get DPOTY votes (not win) and should make all-nba defense. you keep talkin about team defense. he plays on a team full of young offense only players. who played super small and with zion being a defensive liability for most of the year when he came back.

guy is an absolute bulldog.

I don't think hes better than LeVert offensively at this point in his career. And he can't really play off ball because hes not a great shooter.

There really is no debate he is better than levert offensively. he is more productive as a 2nd/3rd option than levert is as a 1st option. and if anyone is a non-option off the ball is levert. levert has pretty much shown all 4 years he is not productive off ball. levert is also a poor off-ball shooter.

Hes good, but hes declining and hes on the wrong side of 30 with a bad contract. No interest at all in giving up Levert, Dinwiddie, Allen picks.
Hard pass.

How is he declining? he just had arguably the best season of his career. did you watch much of the pelicans? he is an ENORMOUS upgrade to either dinwiddie or levert. on BOTH ends (well maybe not offensively a huge upgrade ot dinwiddie but sitll better)

How to set the franchise back 10 years:

Step 1. In a league dominated by 7 foot giants who can do it all (Giannis, Kawhi, KD, Lebron, AD, PG, Simmons, Embiid, Jokic, Butler, Middleton, Tatum, Siakam, Luka)

We already have one 5’11 guy making the max. Now let’s get rid of all our depth and add a 2nd 5’11 guy and give him the max too.

That’s it. That’s how you set the franchise back a decade.

The Hyperbole on both sides gets tiring.

Kyries is almost 6’2”, in socks... That’s a legit 6’2”, not the old NBA in sneakers, standing on the shoebox they came in, 6’2”.

Jrue was measured at 6’3.25” when he was 19 at the combine.

[Nycnyc7188]

Holiday is not even close to the shooter that Beal is, which is the number one thing you want from an off ball player. I'm not convinced Holiday is suited to play off ball either.

He's more of a PG who has been forced to play SG in NO.

His main asset would be defense. But he seems to have fallen off defensively lately. The Pelicans were horrid defensively this year and I didn't see Holiday doing much to change that.

He also has a ridiculous contract which pays him over 26 million per year till 2022. Not ideal for PGs over 30.

I don't doubt Beal's ability to defend at all. I just think he has the worst supporting cast in the league and has had to put all his effort into offense.

Holiday is the best non-big defender in the league outside of kawhi. and he can guard 1 through 4. he is also better offensively then anyone we have not named kyrie or KD.

Holiday will likely not even make either All Defensive Team this year. You are vastly overrating his defense. And as I said the Pelicans were absolutely terrible defensively. He's not as good as he once was.

I don't think hes better than LeVert offensively at this point in his career. And he can't really play off ball because hes not a great shooter.

Hes good, but hes declining and hes on the wrong side of 30 with a bad contract. No interest at all in giving up Levert, Dinwiddie, Allen picks.

Hard pass.

Thanks you ! Someone said it.people rather trade caris levert for a guy whos already declining because “his numbers have been been better for the pst 8 years” lmaoo those same numbers will have zero positive impact on what happens in the future lol

[Hello Brooklyn]

Holiday will likely not even make either All Defensive Team this year. You are vastly overrating his defense. And as I said the Pelicans were absolutely terrible defensively. He's not as good as he once was.

He has been a stud defensively. he will get DPOTY votes (not win) and should make all-nba defense. you keep talkin about team defense. he plays on a team full of young offense only players. who played super small and with zion being a defensive liability for most of the year when he came back.

guy is an absolute bulldog.

I don't think hes better than LeVert offensively at this point in his career. And he can't really play off ball because hes not a great shooter.

There really is no debate he is better than levert offensively. he is more productive as a 2nd/3rd option than levert is as a 1st option. and if anyone is a non-option off the ball is levert. levert has pretty much shown all 4 years he is not productive off ball. levert is also a poor off-ball shooter.

Hes good, but hes declining and hes on the wrong side of 30 with a bad contract. No interest at all in giving up Levert, Dinwiddie, Allen picks.
Hard pass.

How is he declining? he just had arguably the best season of his career. did you watch much of the pelicans? he is an ENORMOUS upgrade to either dinwiddie or levert. on BOTH ends (well maybe not offensively a huge upgrade ot dinwiddie but sitll better)

A "stud defensively" on one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA who got embarrassed in the bubble by everyone. If he was so great then the Pels would not be so awful all the time and he would get recognition for defensive awards.

And no he won't make an All Defensive Team. I would ask you to make a sig/avi bet but I think you're indebted at the moment.

Small guards start declining rapidly in their 30s. Hes not the defender he used to be. Sorry.

Levert has shown offensive potential I don't see from Holiday. Levert's bubble stretch was far better than Holiday, who had the chance to lead the Pels to the playoffs.

If Levert just gets healthy he can play that way consistently.

I don't really think Holiday or Levert can play great off ball. But at least we can make Levert into a 6th man, where it would hardly make sense for Holdiay.

And since Levert is younger he has a greater chance of improving his 3 point shooting.

[ecuhus1981]

First of all, a small guard named Kyle is not "rapidly declining" right now, and he's will into his 30's.

But seriously, you sound silly saying that Kyrie and Jrue are small guards. Do you call Beal a small guard? Because Jrue is a quarter inch taller than him without shoes, and has a longer wingspan as well. Do you call Donovan Mitchell a small guard? Kyrie towers over him.

[DarkXaero]

How does barnes not stretch the floor? he has been at 38-40% form three on decent volume for 4 straight years and played a starting 3 & D role on a championship team. he would beat out both harris and levert. better defender than both and can also play some 4 unlike those 2. greta fit with KD and Kyrie

Eh, I don't think barnes is that guy. He's an okay player but doesn't really move the needle for us much. I don't think he's that good on either end of the floor, and he was the weakest link in that Warriors team. I might take him for cheap, but trading Claxton, it would be selling low on a talented prospect.

i think it is unlikely claxton is 1/2 the player barnes is. Claxton will be lucky to consitently have a role on an NBA team. let alone start on a championship team

Perhaps, but he's on a small rookie contract where he has the chance to outperform his deal. I don't see Barnes as being a good enough reason to move him. There are much better moves out there.

[DarkXaero]

Holiday will likely not even make either All Defensive Team this year. You are vastly overrating his defense. And as I said the Pelicans were absolutely terrible defensively. He's not as good as he once was.

He has been a stud defensively. he will get DPOTY votes (not win) and should make all-nba defense. you keep talkin about team defense. he plays on a team full of young offense only players. who played super small and with zion being a defensive liability for most of the year when he came back.

guy is an absolute bulldog.

I don't think hes better than LeVert offensively at this point in his career. And he can't really play off ball because hes not a great shooter.

There really is no debate he is better than levert offensively. he is more productive as a 2nd/3rd option than levert is as a 1st option. and if anyone is a non-option off the ball is levert. levert has pretty much shown all 4 years he is not productive off ball. levert is also a poor off-ball shooter.

Hes good, but hes declining and hes on the wrong side of 30 with a bad contract. No interest at all in giving up Levert, Dinwiddie, Allen picks.
Hard pass.

How is he declining? he just had arguably the best season of his career. did you watch much of the pelicans? he is an ENORMOUS upgrade to either dinwiddie or levert. on BOTH ends (well maybe not offensively a huge upgrade ot dinwiddie but sitll better)

How to set the franchise back 10 years:

Step 1. In a league dominated by 7 foot giants who can do it all (Giannis, Kawhi, KD, Lebron, AD, PG, Simmons, Embiid, Jokic, Butler, Middleton, Tatum, Siakam, Luka)

We already have one 5’11 guy making the max. Now let’s get rid of all our depth and add a 2nd 5’11 guy and give him the max too.

That’s it. That’s how you set the franchise back a decade.

WTF is this post?

[DarkXaero]

Jrue is a legitimately good two way player in this league, that is not up for debate. The eye test supports him, the reputation/perception around the league backs him, and the defensive metrics back him up. He's one of the best guard defenders in the league, this entire point about Pelicans being horrible defensively hence Jrue is no longer good is nonsensical. You can look at the numbers behind or you can watch Pelican games/tape to see Jrue is still great defensively. He's also legit 6'4" in NBA with a good wingspan, and he has been mostly playing SG for the Pelicans the past 3 seasons. Additionally, the guy has averaged 19/7 as a second/third option this year on an offensively talented Pelicans team, and without super high usage. This idea that he is no longer good or doesn't fit here is quite frankly nonsense.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Jrue is a legitimately good two way player in this league, that is not up for debate. The eye test supports him, the reputation/perception around the league backs him, and the defensive metrics back him up. He's one of the best guard defenders in the league, this entire point about Pelicans being horrible defensively hence Jrue is no longer good is nonsensical. You can look at the numbers behind or you can watch Pelican games/tape to see Jrue is still great defensively. He's also legit 6'4" in NBA with a good wingspan, and he has been mostly playing SG for the Pelicans the past 3 seasons. Additionally, the guy has averaged 19/7 as a second/third option this year on an offensively talented Pelicans team, and without super high usage. This idea that he is no longer good or doesn't fit here is quite frankly nonsense.

Nobody is saying he isn't good.

I just don't think he is worth trading our assets for him and paying 26 mill a year.

Its only worth it for me if we get a high level All Star.

Holiday hasn't even sniffed the all star team in years, is on the wrong side of 30 and has a bad contract.

[Dzon Dilindzer]

dame lillard said jrue holiday is the best defensive guard in the league

offensively, hed be 3rd option anyway, its not like hed be 1st option and you need better than him

[Drygon]

Harrison Barnes would be just another Vince Carter type here. Great regular season player, but no heart. No dog inside. Winning isn’t really that important. He’s a good regular season player that’s happy to collect a pay check.

What a ridiculous take...

Prime Vince Carter averaged 26.4/6.9/5.2 & pushed eventual NBA-finalists (76ers, Miami Heat & Cavs) to 6 or even 7 games.

Harrison Barnes isn't even 1/10 of the player Prime Vince was.

[drchaos]

This team is ready to compete as is.

Instead of chasing an all star we should hold onto our best assets until a star player makes noise about wanting out forcing his team so sell at a discount.

The fringe of our roster (Musa, Chiozza, Hands, Hall, Chandler, Martin, Thomas, Temple, Prince, and draft picks) is where we should be looking to move multiple assets for one or two better players.

Rodi, Claxton, DJ, Allen, and TLC are in the next tier.

After assembling the best 15 man roster this summer without any major moves we should have a nice deck of cards to bring to next years's trade deadline.

[ecuhus1981]

Nobody is saying he isn't good.

I just don't think he is worth trading our assets for and paying 26 mill a year.

Its only worth it for me if we get a high level All Star.

Holiday hasn't even sniffed the all star team in years, is on the wrong side of 30 and has a bad contract.

You act like $26mil is an astronomical number for the cap, when the salaries of Levert and Prince together equal $30mil next season. If we can trade for Jrue as a 3rd star, we should do it. As I've said, I don't love his height, but he can defend 1 through 3 at a high level, can score efficiently and can thrive as a 3rd option, those are the most important things.

[Hello Brooklyn]

dame lillard said jrue holiday is the best defensive guard in the league

offensively, hed be 3rd option anyway, its not like hed be 1st option and you need better than him

Its not 2018 anymore bro.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Nobody is saying he isn't good.

I just don't think he is worth trading our assets for and paying 26 mill a year.

Its only worth it for me if we get a high level All Star.

Holiday hasn't even sniffed the all star team in years, is on the wrong side of 30 and has a bad contract.

You act like $26mil is an astronomical number for the cap, when the salaries of Levert and Prince together equal $30mil next season. If we can trade for Jrue as a 3rd star, we should do it. As I've said, I don't love his height, but he can defend 1 through 3 at a high level, can score efficiently and can thrive as a 3rd option, those are the most important things.

26 mill is a lot to pay for a non-all star.

Levert and Prince are two players lol.

Jrue is not a "star." He hasn't made the all star team in 7 years.

Why give up our assets, flexibility, and pay a ton of money for someone who isn't a true star.

I would way rather just pursue a stretch 4 like Aaron Gordon or Serge Ibaka. Or if we really want a defensive stud then pursue a role player.

[ecuhus1981]

Getting Ibaka as free agent for the MLE would be wonderful. I think he can still earn $15mil/yr from a team, so he's likely not going want to settle for $5mil/yr just for the sake of reuniting with Kevin.

You're comparing two different pursuits. Instead of reiterating what you DON'T want, who would like to acquire via trade, and how much to do they make? I guarantee you, anyone who's worth the upgrade and in our buying range is making as much or more than Holiday. Go ahead, throw out some names, I've got time today.

[drchaos]

Getting Ibaka as free agent for the MLE would be wonderful. I think he can still earn $15mil/yr from a team, so he's likely not going want to settle for $5mil/yr just for the sake of reuniting with Kevin.

You're comparing two different pursuits. Instead of reiterating what you DON'T want, who would like to acquire via trade, and how much to do they make? I guarantee you, anyone who's worth the upgrade and in our buying range is making as much or more than Holiday. Go ahead, throw out some names, I've got time today.

If he comes here for two years and gets himself a chip, Ibaka could get a big contract next time.

[ecuhus1981]

If he comes here for two years and gets himself a chip, Ibaka could get a big contract next time.

Five or six teams could boast this. Heck, the team he's on now can pay him more than we can, and they have just as much right to claim they can get him a chip.

Serge is 31, and an established high-level role-player. He's not going to take a prove-it discount at this point in his career, he's already proven he's worth 8-figure money. This is his last chance to get a large paycheck, free agency at age 33 is far less lucrative. Our only hope is that he just wants to take far under his market value, and that's thin hope.

[GTR11]

This team is ready to compete as is.

Instead of chasing an all star we should hold onto our best assets until a star player makes noise about wanting out forcing his team so sell at a discount.

The fringe of our roster (Musa, Chiozza, Hands, Hall, Chandler, Martin, Thomas, Temple, Prince, and draft picks) is where we should be looking to move multiple assets for one or two better players.

Rodi, Claxton, DJ, Allen, and TLC are in the next tier.

After assembling the best 15 man roster this summer without any major moves we should have a nice deck of cards to bring to next years's trade deadline.

This!!!
Staying pat works in our favor right now. Right now all our assets been growing in value ever since pandemic.

[drchaos]

If he comes here for two years and gets himself a chip, Ibaka could get a big contract next time.

Five or six teams could boast this. Heck, the team he's on now can pay him more than we can, and they have just as much right to claim they can get him a chip.

Serge is 31, and an established high-level role-player. He's not going to take a prove-it discount at this point in his career, he's already proven he's worth 8-figure money. This is his last chance to get a large paycheck, free agency at age 33 is far less lucrative. Our only hope is that he just wants to take far under his market value, and that's thin hope.

Our best hope is that Ibaka wants to join the Super Friends (KD, Kyrie, Levert, DJ, etc).