3 "minor" trade back scenarios I like

CaliWG · Post #1 » by **CaliWG** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:09 pm

By minor I mean these scenarios don't involve the TPE, Wiggins, or trading any current rotation pieces.

Let me preface this by saying I really like Wiseman at #2 (assuming Minny drafts Edwards). But if there is a possibility to trade back slightly with a team desperate for Ball and fill some of the holes on the roster, while still getting a good young player(s), I could be on board. This roster needs to get younger or else the franchise is destined to fall off a cliff at some point. And I really don't want to return to the two decades of awful basketball that existed pre Steph, Klay & Dray.

So here are the potential options I like (obviously they depend on the teams' interest in Ball):

Charlotte: This would be the 49ers-Bears scenario from 2017. Charlotte is sure the Warriors won't take Ball at #2, but they'd be worried someone else would trade up to take him. The Warriors get a young rotation piece (Graham as backup PG?) from the Hornets and can still draft Wiseman at #3 (plus they save some $$$ on that contract).

Atlanta: If Atlanta is willing to give up Collins & #6 to move up to #2, you take it. Then I'd take Nesmith at #6 (I don't care if its a reach, he could be Klay v2.0). This would test whether Collins is really on the trade block.

New York: Mitchell Robinson & #8 (could #27 be on the table too?). You've got a young starting Center with experience, and you add Nesmith as an immediate bench scorer and wing of the future.

My only concern: Am I overestimating the value of this #2 pick?

Little Digger · Post #2 » by **Little Digger** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:49 pm

I turned on Edwards after last night when he admitted he sucked in most of his college games

I really like the kid now..who else does that? Pure honesty ..Let’s get him !

KevinMcreynolds · Post #3 » by **KevinMcreynolds** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:04 pm

Little Digger wrote:I turned on Edwards after last night when he admitted he sucked in most of his college games

I really like the kid now..who else does that? Pure honesty ..Let’s get him !

Yeah I gotta admit I liked his "it helped me learned how to deal with having bad games, I had a lot of bad games" take whereas Lamelo went "It taught me how to get better at basketball." Ya don't say?

King Ken · Post #4 » by **King Ken** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:25 pm

Atlanta fan: not interested in any trading any of our core pieces for anyone in this draft

Onus · Post #5 » by **Onus** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:32 pm

I’d add Thad young and 4 for 2. Grab gasol, ibaka, Baynes for the mle and draft Vassell.

KevinMcreynolds · Post #6 » by **KevinMcreynolds** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:35 pm

Wiggins/#2 pick/2021 Wolves pick for KD

get it done, Bobby

TB · Post #7 » by TB » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:53 pm

My favorite players in a trade back are:

Kennard
Oubre
Smart

Each scenario is assuming we can still land Poku, Okongwu, Okoro, or maybe Haliburton. I think some i'd want more future picks too (celtics and suns scenarios).

In general, i'm taking poku or okongwu + one of those 3 players over just having wiseman or edwards.

Of course the other option is just draft Wiseman or Edwards at 2, then trade next years 1st rounder (ours not minny pick) for one of those 3 players using TPE or Looney.

HiRez · Post #8 » by **HiRez** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:05 pm

CaliWG wrote:My only concern: Am I overestimating the value of this #2 pick?

I think you are. Why would NY or Charlotte or Atlanta give up young foundational pieces like Robinson, Graham, or Collins only to draft another guy they need to develop—who is more unproven than the guys they already have, who have already cleared the bar of showing they can at least play in the NBA?

Coxy · Post #9 » by **Coxy** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:32 pm

HiRez wrote:
CaliWG wrote:My only concern: Am I overestimating the value of this #2 pick?

I think you are. Why would NY or Charlotte or Atlanta give up young foundational pieces like Robinson, Graham, or Collins only to draft another guy they need to develop—who is more unproven than the guys they already have, who have already cleared the bar of showing they can at least play in the NBA?

FWIW, I don't think Charlotte veiw Graham as a foundational piece. If it came down to it, and they wanted to build around Ball, they would move Graham to the bench and not think twice.

I love the idea of coming to an agreement with Charlotte, where we select Ball and they select Wiseman, we trade them and Charlotte add in an insentive to fascilitate. We would save some salary on Wiseman's deal being the 3 pick instead of the 2, and we could add a rotation player or future pick.

Coxy · Post #10 » by **Coxy** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:34 pm

KevinMcreynolds wrote:
Little Digger wrote:I turned on Edwards after last night when he admitted he sucked in most of his college games

I really like the kid now..who else does that? Pure honesty ..Let’s get him !

Yeah I gotta admit I liked his "it helped me learned how to deal with having bad games, I had a lot of bad games" take whereas Lamelo went "It taught me how to get better at basketball." Ya don't say?

I don't really understand why everyone has jumped on Edwards for that comment. The guy stated that he thought his play was puke and he is capable of so much more, and the media take that as a negative? I really don't get it.

CaliWG · Post #11 » by **CaliWG** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:56 pm

HiRez wrote:
CaliWG wrote:My only concern: Am I overestimating the value of this #2 pick?

I think you are. Why would NY or Charlotte or Atlanta give up young foundational pieces like Robinson, Graham, or Collins only to draft another guy they need to develop—who is more unproven than the guys they already have, who have already cleared the bar of showing they can at least play in the NBA?

Collins seems like the only foundational piece of the guys mentioned. And a lead guard is far important than a rim running/rim protecting center like Mitchell if the Knicks view Lamelo as a future star. And Charlotte would essentially be trading #3 and their backup PG for their starting PG.

HiRez · Post #12 » by **HiRez** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:02 pm

Coxy wrote:
HiRez wrote:
CaliWG wrote:My only concern: Am I overestimating the value of this #2 pick?

I think you are. Why would NY or Charlotte or Atlanta give up young foundational pieces like Robinson, Graham, or Collins only to draft another guy they need to develop—who is more unproven than the guys they already have, who have already cleared the bar of showing they can at least play in the NBA?

FWIW, I don't think Charlotte veiw Graham as a foundational piece. If it came down to it, and they wanted to build around Ball, they would move Graham to the bench and not think twice.

Yeah, he may not be foundational, but he did have something of a breakout season, not sure why they want to bail on him now. For sure he was a bit uneven and struggled with efficiency, but not a lot of guys in the NBA are putting up 18 pts and 7.5 assists per game and this was only his 2nd year.

I could maybe see them wanting to "upgrade" to Ball, but again, it's unknown whether he actually would be an upgrade (Ball comes with plenty of question marks) and is it worth sending a high draft pick for? I guess it can't hurt to ask.

Coxy · Post #13 » by **Coxy** » Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:03 am

CaliWG wrote:
HiRez wrote:
CaliWG wrote:My only concern: Am I overestimating the value of this #2 pick?

I think you are. Why would NY or Charlotte or Atlanta give up young foundational pieces like Robinson, Graham, or Collins only to draft another guy they need to develop—who is more unproven than the guys they already have, who have already cleared the bar of showing they can at least play in the NBA?

Collins seems like the only foundational piece of the guys mentioned. And a lead guard is far important than a rim running/rim protecting center like Mitchell if the Knicks view Lamelo as a future star. And Charlotte would essentially be trading #3 and their backup PG for their starting PG.

Mitchell Robinson blows. I watched him live in NYC late last year, and he looked average at best. Didn't even seem interested.

HiRez · Post #14 » by **HiRez** » Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:57 am

2 of these guys matched up in the last game of the RS:

Collins: 41 min, 9-20, 22 pts, 15 reb, 0 ast, 2 stl, 1 blk, 3 to
Robinson: 26 min, 7-7, 6 reb, 0 ast, 1 stl, 2 blk, 0 to

I'm not crazy about Robinson but too early to give up on him IMO, he's only 22. I'm not unloading all our assets to get him but if the Knicks offered their #8 + Robinson for our #2 + salary filler, I'd definitely consider it (let's say they refused to trade their 2021 FRP, which is the asset I'd really like to have).

I'm down with them picking Wiseman, but Robinson + Okongwu/Okoro/Vassell/Toppin is probably better than Wiseman alone.

GQ Hot Dog · Post #15 » by **GQ Hot Dog** » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:09 am

Coxy wrote:
CaliWG wrote:
HiRez wrote:I think you are. Why would NY or Charlotte or Atlanta give up young foundational pieces like Robinson, Graham, or Collins only to draft another guy they need to develop—who is more unproven than the guys they already have, who have already cleared the bar of showing they can at least play in the NBA?

Collins seems like the only foundational piece of the guys mentioned. And a lead guard is far important than a rim running/rim protecting center like Mitchell if the Knicks view Lamelo as a future star. And Charlotte would essentially be trading #3 and their backup PG for their starting PG.

Mitchell Robinson blows. I watched him live in NYC late last year, and he looked average at best. Didn't even seem interested.

He wasn't even a little bit. None of Randle, Gibson, Portis or Morris wanted to be there and the coach needed to win games so I can't imagine a more unpleasant situation for a young guy like Robinson to try to emerge in. That's 4 veterans gunning for front court minutes not doing a thing to help a youngster develop and a coach that prioritizes winning today over developing talent and winning tomorrow. And I can't imagine worse personalities than 3 of those 4 guys, all of whom are trying to impress enough to get traded. Just a miserable situation that couldn't be any more different than what he would find as a Warrior. I would be interested in a trade with NYK that got us Robinson, #8 and a lightly protected 1st.

Little Digger · Post #16 » by **Little Digger** » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:11 am

King Ken wrote:Atlanta fan: not interested in any trading any of our core pieces for anyone in this draft

I want Cam Reddish..I’ll make you a deal you can’t refuse .

Bada Bing Bada Bam

GQ Hot Dog · Post #17 » by **GQ Hot Dog** » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:13 am

HiRez wrote:2 of these guys matched up in the last game of the RS:

Collins: 41 min, 9-20, 22 pts, 15 reb, 0 ast, 2 stl, 1 blk, 3 to
Robinson: 26 min, 7-7, 6 reb, 0 ast, 1 stl, 2 blk, 0 to

I'm not crazy about Robinson but too early to give up on him IMO, he's only 22. I'm not unloading all our assets to get him but if the Knicks offered their #8 + Robinson for our #2 + salary filler, I'd definitely consider it (let's say they refused to trade their 2021 FRP, which is the asset I'd really like to have).

I'm down with them picking Wiseman, but Robinson + Okongwu/Okoro/Vassell/Toppin is probably better than Wiseman alone.

I would insist on #8, Robinson and a future 1st with protections for #2. Something like NYK 2021 1st(top-5 protected 2021, top-3 protected 2022, top-1 protected 2023, unprotected 2024).

DAWill1128 · Post #18 » by **DAWill1128** » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:25 am

Trading back with the Knicks spare parts reminds me of the Sprewell 3 for 1 deal to the Knicks. Didn't Jerry West say you never trade a dollar for change in basketball, or something along those lines?

Coxy · Post #19 » by **Coxy** » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:53 am

DAWill1128 wrote:Trading back with the Knicks spare parts reminds me of the Sprewell 3 for 1 deal to the Knicks. Didn't Jerry West say you never trade a dollar for change in basketball, or something along those lines?

Correct.

Trading back is silly, especially for any of New York's muck.

Take Wiseman, profit.

HiRez · Post #20 » by **HiRez** » Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:18 am

Coxy wrote:
DAWill1128 wrote:Trading back with the Knicks spare parts reminds me of the Sprewell 3 for 1 deal to the Knicks. Didn't Jerry West say you never trade a dollar for change in basketball, or something along those lines?

Correct.

Trading back is silly, especially for any of New York's muck.

Take Wiseman, profit.

I'm iffy on Robinson but NYK 2021 FRP is gold, especially if you are going after Giannis. That's the piece I hope Myers is inquiring about. If we could get let's say Okongwu and the Knick's 2021 first, I do it. That said, I'll be perfectly happy if they just pick Wiseman.