Around The NBA: 2019-20 RESTART

[kodo]

Through two games of the ORL-MIL series I would never have expected Vucevic to be the best player on the floor. 28 points on 11-16 shooting. Giannis has 20 on 6-18.

[League Circles]

This is like saying defense is a minor part of the game. It's half.

On an individual level, no it's not, not even close.

James Harden contends for MVPs. Andre Roberson does not.

MVP isn't the end all. Nobody thinks Harden is as good as LeBron, Kawhi, healthy Durant or Giannis or maybe even PG, and defense is a major reason why.

[dougthonus]

MVP isn't the end all. Nobody thinks Harden is as good as LeBron, Kawhi, healthy Durant or Giannis or maybe even PG, and defense is a major reason why.

I think this statement is wrong. I think most people think he's better than PG and many people think he's as good as those other guys in their current states. Obviously defense means something, but it's fairly statistically obvious why a dominant offensive player is more valuable than a dominant defensive one and every team in the NBA values players in this way.

[Leslie Forman]

This is like saying defense is a minor part of the game. It's half.

On an individual level, no it's not, not even close.

James Harden contends for MVPs. Andre Roberson does not.

MVP isn't the end all. Nobody thinks Harden is as good as LeBron, Kawhi, healthy Durant or Giannis or maybe even PG, and defense is a major reason why.

Well, besides being wrong (Paul George? Really?), you listed a bunch of guys who are also great offensive players.

If defense is really "half the game" at an individual level, then Kris Dunn is as good or even better than Zach LaVine, right?

[League Circles]

MVP isn't the end all. Nobody thinks Harden is as good as LeBron, Kawhi, healthy Durant or Giannis or maybe even PG, and defense is a major reason why.

I think this statement is wrong. I think most people think he's better than PG and many people think he's as good as those other guys in their current states. Obviously defense means something, but it's fairly statistically obvious why a dominant offensive player is more valuable than a dominant defensive one and every team in the NBA values players in this way.

Man I haven't paid attention this year but as of the end of last playoffs I don't think anybody seriously thought he was better than the other 4, though obviously Durant may never be the same. I agree in a sense you need a great offensive player more than a great defender, but that's not the point. It's that guys that are highly capable of both are way more valuable than guys than only are great on offense, which is why they basically ALWAYS lead the title teams and guys like Harden, Steve Nash etc falter at least a round or two earlier.

[dougthonus]

Man I haven't paid attention this year but as of the end of last playoffs I don't think anybody seriously thought he was better than the other 4, though obviously Durant may never be the same. I agree in a sense you need a great offensive player more than a great defender, but that's not the point. It's that guys that are highly capable of both are way more valuable than guys than only are great on offense, which is why they basically ALWAYS lead the title teams and guys like Harden, Steve Nash etc falter at least a round or two earlier.

Being elite on offense is better than being good on both sides. Say Harden vs Middleton.

In terms of recent guys, Steph Curry isn't a good defensive player. Managed to win some titles. Durant is nothing special on the defensive end and won some titles.

[League Circles]

Man I haven't paid attention this year but as of the end of last playoffs I don't think anybody seriously thought he was better than the other 4, though obviously Durant may never be the same. I agree in a sense you need a great offensive player more than a great defender, but that's not the point. It's that guys that are highly capable of both are way more valuable than guys than only are great on offense, which is why they basically ALWAYS lead the title teams and guys like Harden, Steve Nash etc falter at least a round or two earlier.

Being elite on offense is better than being good on both sides. Say Harden vs Middleton.

In terms of recent guys, Steph Curry isn't a good defensive player. Managed to win some titles. Durant is nothing special on the defensive end and won some titles.

Durant was awesome on defense for years now IMO. Curry never led a team to a title alone. Won the one but Iggy outplayed him lol.

[sco]

Anybody else catch that Silver said 12/1 is looking unlikely for next season? He said they want fans in stadiums. They can't be waiting for a widespread distribution of a vaccine...that could take them out til March or later. I could see Christmas though.

[MrFortune3]

This is like saying defense is a minor part of the game. It's half.

On an individual level, no it's not, not even close.

James Harden contends for MVPs. Andre Roberson does not.

MVP isn't the end all. Nobody thinks Harden is as good as LeBron, Kawhi, healthy Durant or Giannis or maybe even PG, and defense is a major reason why.

I rip Harden quite a bit but Paul George is stretching it.

LeBron, Kawhi, Durant and Giannis sure.

[StunnerKO]

[DASMACKDOWN]

Anybody else catch that Silver said 12/1 is looking unlikely for next season? He said they want fans in stadiums. They can't be waiting for a widespread distribution of a vaccine...that could take them out til March or later. I could see Christmas though.

They just don't know at this point. Having a bubble costs billions. So instead of being committed to Dec 1, pushing it back to try and accommodate fans is good lip service.

I think they are still having a wait and see approach. Football supposed to start in 3 weeks. We will see if its something that can fly or be a complete disaster. Baseball has their significant struggles but is moving along with no fans.

I will say, in my opinion, there is no way we have a bubble for a whole season. These guys were struggling not even a month in the bubble, imagine 5 months. I don't think anyone could do that.

So Silver is buying time.

[kodo]

Silver said the bubble is so expensive, it's not actually a financial improvement over not having any games at all. The NBA is a business, I won't be surprised if they delay next season massivley even if it means far fewer games. Money will make their decision for them. Ultimately the NBA = the board = the owners.

[TheGOATRises007]

Man I haven't paid attention this year but as of the end of last playoffs I don't think anybody seriously thought he was better than the other 4, though obviously Durant may never be the same. I agree in a sense you need a great offensive player more than a great defender, but that's not the point. It's that guys that are highly capable of both are way more valuable than guys than only are great on offense, which is why they basically ALWAYS lead the title teams and guys like Harden, Steve Nash etc falter at least a round or two earlier.

Being elite on offense is better than being good on both sides. Say Harden vs Middleton.

In terms of recent guys, Steph Curry isn't a good defensive player. Managed to win some titles. Durant is nothing special on the defensive end and won some titles.

Durant was awesome on defense for years now IMO. Curry never led a team to a title alone. Won the one but Iggy outplayed him lol.

Iggy didn't outplay Curry at all in 2015.

Check the stats.

[MrSparkle]

This MVP/defense conversation is really being over-thunk.

Did any of us care about Derrick Rose's defense when he was scoring like a human pinball on fire?

Does anybody in HOU care about Harden's defense? He's had them contending with a limp-as-hell roster for 5 years straight.

Does anybody trade Jokic for Gobert? I sure as hell don't.

As a Bucks fan, I'd be way more concerned about Giannis' shooting ability than Harden's or Luka's defense. That will be the Bucks' Achille's heel against the more serious playoff opponents.

Don't get me wrong, LaVine, McDermott, Lauri - bad defenders, and it's been well worthwhile pointing it out. But those guys also create assists off-the-dribble about as well as Thaddeus Young... which is a problem for your high-usage #1-2, even 3 option. I think I'd rather have Klay Thompson or JJ Redick create with the ball, and they're off-the-ball, catch-and-shoot scorers. So their problem actually isn't as much their defense as it is their inability to justify high-usage as ball-handlers, while also not contributing as much off-the-ball.

A point-(anybody) with inside-out scoring ability is the most valuable player in the NBA. The more you have the ball, the less you need to defend. Of course the taller and more athletic you are, the better (until your length or weight affects your agility and health).

But again, Jordan, Pippen and Kawhi are the ultimate anomalies.

[Southpaw]

Luka is impressive. I love his game and he puts up monster numbers. But let me say this. Luka is not on Jordan’s level. I don’t think people understand how unstoppable Jordan would be in this era. Jordan defense alone makes him a better player. Jordan went against way tougher defenses than the clippers. And Luka has plenty of talent on Dallas. I actually think Dallas has done a good job of constructing a roster that maximizes Lukas potential. Of course they aren’t the most stacked team but he has some talent on that team.

Well you don’t have to convince me MJ was the GOAT, this is the Bulls board and we’re all aware … But it’s obviously early - this is Luka’s second playoff game....he’s a baby... but there’s something to do be said about Magic vision coupled with Harden scoring. His ability to gobble up boards and loose balls in traffic is another odd intangible for an offensive stud. MJ had great vision but he didn’t have Magic vision, which was his early knock (as an alpha scorer) and ultimately alleviated by having a multi-point system featuring Scottie and other high IQ passers.

I dunno if I buy the defense argument. I’ll agree Jordan would feast in today’s NBA, but similarly Luka would feast in the 90s. I don’t think the mutant child of Kidd and Reggie Miller struggles in 1996. As far as Man defense itself goes, I’m genuinely surprised what a strong defender Luka is. I think his awareness, strength and hands make him a pretty strong defender, obviously not in MJ’s league.

Anyway, just a passing thought as the game went by. As it stands, baby Luka got himself into a trouble with that bad 5th foul in a crucial game and Dallas is now in a dangerous spot up 10 against the Terminator.

I agree with you on a lot of your post. I just think he still have to prove himself more over a longer period of times before we start talking goat status. For example I wouldn’t even say he’s the best offensive talent in the game right now. He still young but their are so many talented offensive guys in the league. If we just talking pure offense I’m taking Harden, Curry, Dame, Durant over Luka right now just to name a few. Because of the nature of my work, I have talked with a few NBA players and none of them mention Luka as the toughest guy to defend. Is interesting getting their viewpoint on the league. This might surprise a lot of people on this board but the player that I hear a lot from players I spoke with is Westbrook is one of the hardest guy to defend and game plan against.

I can see why the bolded part is true for a lot of players. Westbrook plays balls to the walls every time he steps on the court and there are very few players, if any that can match him on that.

As for Luka being the baby GOAT, I can see why people would think that. His control of the game is unreal.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Silver said the bubble is so expensive, it's not actually a financial improvement over not having any games at all. The NBA is a business, I won't be surprised if they delay next season massivley even if it means far fewer games. Money will make their decision for them. Ultimately the NBA = the board = the owners.

Yup.

I think even with the start the bubble, I think the owners are still thinking positive that the following season would be in front of fans. But if that cant happen, I think they will keep delaying it until the Covid numbers massively drop.

The bubble is just too expensive. The TV money they get right now probably doesn't even put a dent in what they are actually spending. And remember its not just bubble, its also the Wubble for the WNBA. WNBA isnt even making money and they are throwing a ton of money at that to keep it going. Thats alot of losses.

[MrFortune3]

Jackson and Karl have had beef for years due to Iggy.

[kodo]

Possible permanent NBA changes

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/20/nba-blazers-grizzlies-play-in-game-foundation-scheduling-changes.html

The NBA is paying attention to why competition is fresh and exciting, and it’s partly due to the lack of travel, which takes a toll on players’ bodies. The league tried to adjust the schedule over the years but has yet to find a cure for “load management.”

The benefits of less travel are a good argument for a series-like schedule, similar to Major League Baseball, which Spruell said is being discussed as a potential addition in the future.

The model would allow teams to play back-to-back games in the same city against the same team. Also, clubs could play all their season match-ups against clubs in multiple-team states like Texas, California, and New York on one trip instead of making multiple stops throughout the year.

But one thing can’t be debated: The NBA can still attract viewers for games that matter, like last weekend’s “play-in” contest between the Portland Trail Blazers and the Memphis Grizzlies.

Spruell, the NBA’s president of operations, said the game, featuring a dynamic superstar in Damian Lillard and rookie star Ja Morant, was “compelling and exciting.”

And with the ratings serving as support, the NBA plans to discuss adding the play-in model to its traditional 82-game season permanently.

Conferences look like they're here to stay.

Some league executives have also that conferences be abolished, giving the best 16 teams overall a shot in the post-season, but Spruell suggested that’s not under consideration at the moment.

[MrSparkle]

Does anybody trade Jokic for Gobert? I sure as hell don't.

Man, this game's making me choke/gargle salt on my words.

Come on Joker, show up! Not the first time he's come up limp in a competition. He was pretty invisible in last year's FIBA tourney (Serbian NT).

[MrSparkle]

Possible permanent NBA changes

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/20/nba-blazers-grizzlies-play-in-game-foundation-scheduling-changes.html

The NBA is paying attention to why competition is fresh and exciting, and it’s partly due to the lack of travel, which takes a toll on players’ bodies. The league tried to adjust the schedule over the years but has yet to find a cure for “load management.”

The benefits of less travel are a good argument for a series-like schedule, similar to Major League Baseball, which Spruell said is being discussed as a potential addition in the future.

The model would allow teams to play back-to-back games in the same city against the same team. Also, clubs could play all their season match-ups against clubs in multiple-team states like Texas, California, and New York on one trip instead of making multiple stops throughout the year.

But one thing can’t be debated: The NBA can still attract viewers for games that matter, like last weekend’s “play-in” contest between the Portland Trail Blazers and the Memphis Grizzlies.

Spruell, the NBA’s president of operations, said the game, featuring a dynamic superstar in Damian Lillard and rookie star Ja Morant, was “compelling and exciting.”

And with the ratings serving as support, the NBA plans to discuss adding the play-in model to its traditional 82-game season permanently.

Conferences look like they're here to stay.

Some league executives have also that conferences be abolished, giving the best 16 teams overall a shot in the post-season, but Spruell suggested that’s not under consideration at the moment.

They need to tweak the idea a bit, but I'd love to see the league open up at the 60-game mark with the play-in concept. Maybe award a #1 seed a 10-game "bye" or something, and continue cutting the bottom 4-8 teams.

If they were to do that, I'm all about having a tank-tourney with the teams sent home early. A 2-group warm-up stage, then they are matched into a short tournament. Either one-and-done or a best of 3 series. But it would still be fun to watch losing teams play each other in a competitive game.

I don't see the harm of ending the season on a tournament note. Losing teams get to still sell tickets for a playoff atmosphere game. College football has about 1,458 Bowl games. Might as well give these guys something to play for, other than a lottery pick.