WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1

[mr570]

- Smart move by Donovan to put Gallinari at the 5. He had other options but made a good call there. Gallinari did a much better job defensively. Smart and timely substitutions by Donovan all around.

Are you sure they were timely? Do you follow any OKC Thunder media personalities? Erik Horne, Jon Hamm, Down to Dunk guys (Andrew Schlect/Miky Berra in particular) were all SCREAMING for Donovan to put in Gallo and not take out Dort.

Donovan took out Dort to put in Steven Adams and almost lost the game from that substitution because Harden scored five easy points I wanna say with a minute to go. At 50someodd seconds I didn't think OKC was going to win it. And then they clutched up and Dort was put back in at the 11th hour and they somehow did it. I don't think his substitutions were timely at all but it's definitely smart.

The issue is everyone was screaming for Gallo at the 5 to happen at halftime so, I mean, congrats on seeing something that literally every Thunder media personality was calling for YEARS before you finally did it!

[NaturalThunder]

Less Adams is a good thing in this series. I don't care if his knee is fine, I wouldn't play him or Noel in Game 4 or 5 unless it were absolutely necessary.

I'd have Muscala and Gallinari split the 5 position duties. It's not like Adams is providing rim protect or offensive punch so I'd be perfectly fine trading out Muscala for Adams. At least then we'll be able to play 4 on 5 on offense whereas it was pretty much 3 on 5 anytime we had Dort and Adams on the floor at the same time.

I agree. Adams isn't providing any rim protection in this series mostly because his rotations have been lazy, slow, and sometimes non-existent. He's also not willing to commit to helping down on a drive because it means leaving a shooter open beyond the perimeter because Houston always has 5 shooters on the floor. Regardless, the issue is that Adams is still too slow, no matter his commitment and focus level on defense, to play in this series. Noel is slightly more apt to handle defensive duties in this series, but not by a big enough margin to justify playing him big minutes.

[Old Man Game]

The soft bigotry of low expectations on full display here.

You know, in all honesty I try not to be overly negative but I it’s hard because I only see one realistic path to a championship. This year was a waste of time. That being said, Galloissaman is a good poster that I like having around so it’s not all bad.

LOL $20 on its way to your paypal

It's no disrespect intended toward you Galloisdaman. I just recall years ago when the Thunder played the Spurs in the WCF finals. We were down 0-2 Tony Parker was killing us. Then Brooks made the decision to put Thabo on him and it changed the series. I just remember a ton of fans on message boards acting like Brooks had outcoached Pop when all he'd done was put his best wing defender on the other team's best perimeter player.

Anyhow, ever since I've always been on the lookout for coaches getting credit for obvious things.

[getrichordie]

Haha. We win and Donovan doesn't get any love. This is what I've been talking about: coach's dilemma.

A few notes:

- Paul yeeted that 3.
- Paul was more aggressive and less passive.
- This is what I meant by letting Schroder handle the ball and push the pace and find cracks in the defense.
- Gordon is starting to look tired.
- Dort did a fantastic job on defense as always but he showed some real nice off-hand dribbling tonight.
- Smart move by Donovan to put Gallinari at the 5. He had other options but made a good call there. Gallinari did a much better job defensively. Smart and timely substitutions by Donovan all around.
- Schroder played really smart down the stretch and didn't settle for 3s and waited for right opportunity to get into the paint.

A caveat on Donovan's substitutions being smart and timely. For most of the game they were fine but I thought he did a bad job the final few minutes of regulation. First he takes out Dort with 3 minutes to play just so he could put in his normal closing lineup of Gallo, CP3, Adams, Shai, and Schroder.....the problem with that was Harden was on the floor and Dort had done masterful job guarding Harden all night. So why on earth pull him now during crunch time? Harden promptly scores 5 quick points.....timeout Thunder.

Second, everyone knows Noel is clumsy and prone to fouling, but that didn't stop Donovan for putting him out there on Houston's final possession of regulation. Luckily Covington missed one of the FTs.

Billy has got to be better than this. These weren't hard decisions to make yet he butchered them.

Firstly, it was House who shot FTs, not Covington. And Noel was in the right position and House "tripped" over his foot. I would hardly call that a blatant, or clumsy, foul. There have been so many times where referees swallow the whistle on that kind of play.

At the time that Donovan took Dort out, we needed offense and it's no secret that Dort doesn't help our spacing. The commentators even pointed it out... At times, HOU did make the mistake of overplaying Dort, though.

[getrichordie]

- Smart move by Donovan to put Gallinari at the 5. He had other options but made a good call there. Gallinari did a much better job defensively. Smart and timely substitutions by Donovan all around.

Are you sure they were timely? Do you follow any OKC Thunder media personalities? Erik Horne, Jon Hamm, Down to Dunk guys (Andrew Schlect/Miky Berra in particular) were all SCREAMING for Donovan to put in Gallo and not take out Dort.

Donovan took out Dort to put in Steven Adams and almost lost the game from that substitution because Harden scored five easy points I wanna say with a minute to go. At 50someodd seconds I didn't think OKC was going to win it. And then they clutched up and Dort was put back in at the 11th hour and they somehow did it. I don't think his substitutions were timely at all but it's definitely smart.

The issue is everyone was screaming for Gallo at the 5 to happen at halftime so, I mean, congrats on seeing something that literally every Thunder media personality was calling for YEARS before you finally did it!

Why are we pretending that media is always right about things? I've seen some really questionable takes from all of the aforementioned media personalities/darlings amongst OKC fans.

It was smart to wait to put Gallo at the 5 because you want to blindside HOU with that substitution, you don't want to give your hand away too early and allow D'Antoni to make adjustments...

Substitutions are chess, not checkers.

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[getrichordie]

Less Adams is a good thing in this series. I don't care if his knee is fine, I wouldn't play him or Noel in Game 4 or 5 unless it were absolutely necessary.

I'd have Muscala and Gallinari split the 5 position duties. It's not like Adams is providing rim protect or offensive punch so I'd be perfectly fine trading out Muscala for Adams. At least then we'll be able to play 4 on 5 on offense whereas it was pretty much 3 on 5 anytime we had Dort and Adams on the floor at the same time.

I agree. Adams isn't providing any rim protection in this series mostly because his rotations have been lazy, slow, and sometimes non-existent. He's also not willing to commit to helping down on a drive because it means leaving a shooter open beyond the perimeter because Houston always has 5 shooters on the floor. Regardless, the issue is that Adams is still too slow, no matter his commitment and focus level on defense, to play in this series. Noel is slightly more apt to handle defensive duties in this series, but not by a big enough margin to justify playing him big minutes.

This is why all year last year and the latter half of the year before, I was screaming for us to trade Adams if possible. I love Adams and I love his heart and his hustle, but there are much better fits out there for how our roster was constructed then and now. Presti **** up by giving him all that $. The smartest thing Adams ever did in his life was to sign that contract. Props to Adams' agent. That man deserves a 'Rarri.

[getrichordie]

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[Galloisdaman]

You know, in all honesty I try not to be overly negative but I it’s hard because I only see one realistic path to a championship. This year was a waste of time. That being said, Galloissaman is a good poster that I like having around so it’s not all bad.

LOL $20 on its way to your paypal

It's no disrespect intended toward you Galloisdaman. I just recall years ago when the Thunder played the Spurs in the WCF finals. We were down 0-2 Tony Parker was killing us. Then Brooks made the decision to put Thabo on him and it changed the series. I just remember a ton of fans on message boards acting like Brooks had outcoached Pop when all he'd done was put his best wing defender on the other team's best perimeter player.

Anyhow, ever since I've always been on the lookout for coaches getting credit for obvious things.

LOL come on now. Maybe you should re-read this thread from a few days ago. I called for Billy to shorten the rotation down to the top 8-9 players. I said we were being out coached on both offense and defense.

[getrichordie]

LOL $20 on its way to your paypal

It's no disrespect intended toward you Galloisdaman. I just recall years ago when the Thunder played the Spurs in the WCF finals. We were down 0-2 Tony Parker was killing us. Then Brooks made the decision to put Thabo on him and it changed the series. I just remember a ton of fans on message boards acting like Brooks had outcoached Pop when all he'd done was put his best wing defender on the other team's best perimeter player.

Anyhow, ever since I've always been on the lookout for coaches getting credit for obvious things.

LOL come on now. Maybe you should re-read this thread from a few days ago. I called for Billy to shorten the rotation down to the top 8-9 players. I said we were being out coached on both offense and defense.

We have to objective and keep in mind that not only were certain players in foul trouble at times, but our main guys couldn't get any sort of penetration and we were being killed by the Rockets, especially in game 1 and game 2 down the stretch.

It's hard to say it is a bad move to throw the kitchen sink in at game 1 and see what works because SGA, Paul, Adams and almost everyone else clearly wasn't working. Noel was in foul trouble. Ferguson/Diallo are basically interchangeable. Both are bad so what does it matter if one or the other is out there. Give them both a shot and see if something sticks. Like I said, we weren't getting anywhere with SGA and Paul playing timid and at a slower pace to boot.

In game 2, we saw Dort in foul trouble and Paul still being passive and not playing at a good pace and still not getting consistent penetration. We played 10 guys... we aren't doing that if something isn't working.

Had we not being playing well, last night, I'm sure we would have done the same. Other teams have been playing 9-10 guys in the playoffs as well. If you want to disagree with that fine, but it's not a crazy thing to do when your struggling. Almost every coach is going to throw someone else out there if a guy or guys aren't playing well.

[mr570]

- Smart move by Donovan to put Gallinari at the 5. He had other options but made a good call there. Gallinari did a much better job defensively. Smart and timely substitutions by Donovan all around.

Are you sure they were timely? Do you follow any OKC Thunder media personalities? Erik Horne, Jon Hamm, Down to Dunk guys (Andrew Schlect/Miky Berra in particular) were all SCREAMING for Donovan to put in Gallo and not take out Dort.

Donovan took out Dort to put in Steven Adams and almost lost the game from that substitution because Harden scored five easy points I wanna say with a minute to go. At 50someodd seconds I didn't think OKC was going to win it. And then they clutched up and Dort was put back in at the 11th hour and they somehow did it. I don't think his substitutions were timely at all but it's definitely smart.

The issue is everyone was screaming for Gallo at the 5 to happen at halftime so, I mean, congrats on seeing something that literally every Thunder media personality was calling for YEARS before you finally did it!

Why are we pretending that media is always right about things? I've seen some really questionable takes from all of the aforementioned media personalities/darlings amongst OKC fans.

It was smart to wait to put Gallo at the 5 because you want to blindside HOU with that substitution, you don't want to give your hand away too early and allow D'Antoni to make adjustments...

Substitutions are chess, not checkers.

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But he could have done it so much earlier and made it a series instead of a desperation win?

[Galloisdaman]

It's no disrespect intended toward you Galloisdaman. I just recall years ago when the Thunder played the Spurs in the WCF finals. We were down 0-2 Tony Parker was killing us. Then Brooks made the decision to put Thabo on him and it changed the series. I just remember a ton of fans on message boards acting like Brooks had outcoached Pop when all he'd done was put his best wing defender on the other team's best perimeter player.

Anyhow, ever since I've always been on the lookout for coaches getting credit for obvious things.

LOL come on now. Maybe you should re-read this thread from a few days ago. I called for Billy to shorten the rotation down to the top 8-9 players. I said we were being out coached on both offense and defense.

We have to objective and keep in mind that not only were certain players in foul trouble at times, but our main guys couldn't get any sort of penetration and we were being killed by the Rockets, especially in game 1 and game 2 down the stretch.

It's hard to say it is a bad move to throw the kitchen sink in at game 1 and see what works because SGA, Paul, Adams and almost everyone else clearly wasn't working. Noel was in foul trouble. Ferguson/Diallo are basically interchangeable. Both are bad so what does it matter if one or the other is out there. Give them both a shot and see if something sticks. Like I said, we weren't getting anywhere with SGA and Paul playing timid and at a slower pace to boot.

In game 2, we saw Dort in foul trouble and Paul still being passive and not playing at a good pace and still not getting consistent penetration. We played 10 guys... we aren't doing that if something isn't working.

Had we not being playing well, last night, I'm sure we would have done the same. Other teams have been playing 9-10 guys in the playoffs as well. If you want to disagree with that fine, but it's not a crazy thing to do when your struggling. Almost every coach is going to throw someone else out there if a guy or guys aren't playing well.

I think some guys got some garbage minutes as well but I'd prefer to only put the top 8 on the floor if possible. Maybe that is short sighted but I have always liked when teams shorten there rotation in the playoffs.

[1bigfan13]

We have to objective and keep in mind that not only were certain players in foul trouble at times, but our main guys couldn't get any sort of penetration and we were being killed by the Rockets, especially in game 1 and game 2 down the stretch.

It's hard to say it is a bad move to throw the kitchen sink in at game 1 and see what works because SGA, Paul, Adams and almost everyone else clearly wasn't working. Noel was in foul trouble. Ferguson/Diallo are basically interchangeable. Both are bad so what does it matter if one or the other is out there. Give them both a shot and see if something sticks. Like I said, we weren't getting anywhere with SGA and Paul playing timid and at a slower pace to boot.

In game 2, we saw Dort in foul trouble and Paul still being passive and not playing at a good pace and still not getting consistent penetration. We played 10 guys... we aren't doing that if something isn't working.

Had we not being playing well, last night, I'm sure we would have done the same. Other teams have been playing 9-10 guys in the playoffs as well. If you want to disagree with that fine, but it's not a crazy thing to do when your struggling. Almost every coach is going to throw someone else out there if a guy or guys aren't playing well.

I think we'd see more penetration from CP3 and the other guards if we kept Adams and Noel off the floor and allowed some combination of Muscala, Bazley, and Gallinari to man the 4 & 5 positions.

Floor spacing would instantly be better since better shooters/scorers are on the floor. When Adams is out there with Dort it's essentially 3 vs 5 when OKC has the ball on offense. So it's easy as hell for the Rockets players to cheat towards the paint and cut off driving lanes. Whereas of Muscala were out there at the center position the man guarding him has to respect his ability to hit threes so that buys the guards a few extra feet to get into the paint.

I don't know why Donovan hasn't tried this yet.

[getrichordie]

We have to objective and keep in mind that not only were certain players in foul trouble at times, but our main guys couldn't get any sort of penetration and we were being killed by the Rockets, especially in game 1 and game 2 down the stretch.

It's hard to say it is a bad move to throw the kitchen sink in at game 1 and see what works because SGA, Paul, Adams and almost everyone else clearly wasn't working. Noel was in foul trouble. Ferguson/Diallo are basically interchangeable. Both are bad so what does it matter if one or the other is out there. Give them both a shot and see if something sticks. Like I said, we weren't getting anywhere with SGA and Paul playing timid and at a slower pace to boot.

In game 2, we saw Dort in foul trouble and Paul still being passive and not playing at a good pace and still not getting consistent penetration. We played 10 guys... we aren't doing that if something isn't working.

Had we not being playing well, last night, I'm sure we would have done the same. Other teams have been playing 9-10 guys in the playoffs as well. If you want to disagree with that fine, but it's not a crazy thing to do when your struggling. Almost every coach is going to throw someone else out there if a guy or guys aren't playing well.

I think we'd see more penetration from CP3 and the other guards if we kept Adams and Noel off the floor and allowed some combination of Muscala, Bazley, and Gallinari to man the 4 & 5 positions.

Floor spacing would instantly be better since better shooters/scorers are on the floor. When Adams is out there with Dort it's essentially 3 vs 5 when OKC has the ball on offense. So it's easy as hell for the Rockets players to cheat towards the paint and cut off driving lanes. Whereas of Muscala were out there at the center position the man guarding him has to respect his ability to hit threes so that buys the guards a few extra feet to get into the paint.

I don't know why Donovan hasn't tried this yet.

I don't think you understand. Paul was having a hard time getting penetration AT the point of attack.

And yes, spacing would undoubtedly be better with those guys at the 5 instead of Adams, but does the probable defensive fall-off justify the spacing for a team that doesn't shoot the 3 all that well? I don't know the answer to that question. I do know we would take a massive hit to our rebounding numbers. Gallinari is a career 8.8 TRB% guy. Muscala? 11.2%... Bazley? 12.0% so far... and he's only 210 lbs. Maybe 215 now. Idk. Not big though. For comparison, Adams is 15.4% but that's with years of him sealing off his man so his guards can grab the board.

[kdthunderup]

I wonder if bringing Westbrook back into the fold may potentially be a good thing for OKC. Houston's role players have really stepped up on both ends of the court, I do wonder if an underdone Westbrook may disrupt that momentum for them.

[getrichordie]

I'll be honest... I'm still waiting to see some of this from Noel at some point...

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[getrichordie]

I wonder if bringing Westbrook back into the fold may potentially be a good thing for OKC. Houston's role players have really stepped up on both ends of the court, I do wonder if an underdone Westbrook may disrupt that momentum for them.

Who guards Westbrook, though? I mean, I want to say CP3, but I'm afraid Westbrook would attack him and get him in foul trouble and/or CP3 will need help even if he sags off of him a good bit and Westbrook will find the guy he is helping off of. And then there's the issue of pace...

[1bigfan13]

I don't think you understand. Paul was having a hard time getting penetration AT the point of attack.

And yes, spacing would undoubtedly be better with those guys at the 5 instead of Adams, but does the probable defensive fall-off justify the spacing for a team that doesn't shoot the 3 all that well? I don't know the answer to that question. I do know we would take a massive hit to our rebounding numbers. Gallinari is a career 8.8 TRB% guy. Muscala? 11.2%... Bazley? 12.0% so far... and he's only 210 lbs. Maybe 215 now. Idk. Not big though. For comparison, Adams is 15.4% but that's with years of him sealing off his man so his guards can grab the board.

I'd at least try it for 5 minutes or so just to see if it works. And I don't think the defensive fall-off would be that drastic given how out of sync and lost Adams has looked on defense for most of the series. He's been slow to rotate and hasn't closed out well on shooters. Which is why Jeff Green has been getting so many clean looks. So it's not like we'd be pulling a high level defender out of the lineup. From what I've watched in Games 1-3, we'd be removing one of our weaker defensive players from the rotation for added offense.

I don't know if my lineup would work either but it's certainly worth trying given what we've seen from Adams so far.

[kdthunderup]

Id assume CP3 and Shai would take turns defending him. I don't think we'll shut him down but taking the ball out of Harden's hands is a good thing for us imo. If Russ believes he has a large mismatch we all know he gets tunnel vision and will take a lot of forced shots.

[1bigfan13]

I wonder if bringing Westbrook back into the fold may potentially be a good thing for OKC. Houston's role players have really stepped up on both ends of the court, I do wonder if an underdone Westbrook may disrupt that momentum for them.

I actually think it does help OKC if he comes back. For one he's so ball dominant, like Harden, that I think he disrupts the ball and player movement we've seen from Houston so far. I watched a lot of Houston Rockets games this year and they rarely moved without the ball and moved the ball like we've seen the first 3 games of the series. I think there's a good chance that Westbrook's presence leads to more standing and watching on their part which obviously benefits OKC.

Secondly, as I've mentioned before, you can always count on Westbrook to do dumb things throughout the game to give you cheap points. He'll lag behind on defense arguing with officials; he'll get technical fouls; he'll give you a few fouls out of frustration because he didn't get a call; his lazy off-ball defense can easily be exploited for cheap points; etc.

Great player but the basketball IQ is not where it needs to be. He does too many things that hurt his own team.

[getrichordie]

Since we've mentioned Andrew Schlecht already, I wanted to point out that he made a good observation on the most recent podcast. The Thunder had no tape on this iteration of the Rockets headed into game 1. None. So there was a bit of an advantage to HOU in that regard as well on top of the experience advantage they already have...