Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory

[Skybox]

This forum is overreacting to the playoff series as usual. We would look a lot better if we were healthy and its great for development. The playoffs highlight player weaknesses more than any other situation - and the drive to win will push them to correct those weaknesses.

And even if everyone is retained, running it back means having a better version of Fultz and Bamba + the addition of Okeke and whoever else we draft. This team is on an upward trajectory regardless of how people feel about them, Steve Clifford is a great coach who will get the most of our players, and he'll put together a gameplan that will always have the Magic in a position to win.

Do I want to trade Fournier? Of course. Do I want to trade AG? Depends on the return. Do I want to trade Vuc? Not yet. The reality is that the Front Office has done a good job managing the the salaries of our players. Have they wiffed at times? Yes, just like every other FO. Could things have been better? Yes, but everything is better in hindsight. There were so many people DESPERATE to trade Jonathan Isaac for DSJ who's about to exit the league.

People just need to chill out.

The better team is winning and the Bucks is proving why defence matters.

Look: let's say Orlando steals another and then loses the series 4-2, frankly that is a great result for this team.

What do I want moving forward? I want to see Gordon play a game.


..

Good idea for a thread.

[VFX]

I dont like Bamba, but the thought process of Weltman was right. You dont pass on a high ceiling player becouse you have Vucevic. Thats how Kings drafted Bagley before Doncic becouse they had Fox as a lead ball handler.

That’s your example??? Doncic was the best player in that draft and it wasn’t even close. Ayton was in the conversation even though he shouldn’t have been...maybe.

No, their thought process wasn’t right. Drafting him made zero sense if they didn’t actually plan on following through with their plan. Wasted pick. You simply don’t spend a top lottery pick on a backup Center.. ever...period

Bamba was never the BPA. You don't draft a defensive Center in the lottery anymore. I wrote it here a few times already. Almost all the other athletic defensive Bigs (Bamba isnt even athletic at all) in the 5-8 years before that draft, were drafted late in the 1st round or in the 2nd or undrafted (DeAndre, Robinson, Allen, Capela, Kleber...) . Reaching for such player in the top 10 of one of the best drafts ever is just dumb.
I doubt you need that type of player anyway today, because switching ability is much more important than having a 7fter. Look at a guy like Theis, he is a fantastic defender despite being 6'8. 90% of RealGM laughed about Ainge and the Celtics Bigs before the season & losing Horford, but he showed again he is smarter than most, like he did when he drafted all those guards & wings. God i'm so jealous about the GM's in Boston, Denver, Toronto & Miami. Always forward thinking.
Our drafting in general was so bad the last 5 years. Almost all players are busts, injured or always the same kind of 2nd round wings, without any NBA skill except wingspan.

You don’t draft Centers in the lottery anymore unless they are the second coming of AD or Shaq. There are too many examples of Bigs that can be found for cheap or much later in the draft. That’s why “BPA” is a fallacy. No, you don’t draft for position all the time, but you also don’t go overlooking pick value and the market.

[pepe1991]

Bamba's main issue is not that he plays behind Vučević but that he on his own simply isn't good baketball player today.

[Knightro]

Bamba was never the BPA. You don't draft a defensive Center in the lottery anymore. I wrote it here a few times already. Almost all the other athletic defensive Bigs (Bamba isnt even athletic at all) in the 5-8 years before that draft, were drafted late in the 1st round or in the 2nd or undrafted (DeAndre, Robinson, Allen, Capela, Kleber...) . Reaching for such player in the top 10 of one of the best drafts ever is just dumb.
I doubt you need that type of player anyway today, because switching ability is much more important than having a 7fter. Look at a guy like Theis, he is a fantastic defender despite being 6'8. 90% of RealGM laughed about Ainge and the Celtics Bigs before the season & losing Horford, but he showed again he is smarter than most, like he did when he drafted all those guards & wings. God i'm so jealous about the GM's in Boston, Denver, Toronto & Miami. Always forward thinking.
Our drafting in general was so bad the last 5 years. Almost all players are busts, injured or always the same kind of 2nd round wings, without any NBA skill except wingspan.

Mo Bamba may well end up being a complete bust, but pretending like he wasn't pretty much universally considered a top 5 prospect is massive hindsight.

Jeremy Woo of Sport Illustrated had Bamba 5th: https://www.si.com/nba/2018/05/30/nba-draft-2018-prospect-rankings-big-board

Mike Schmitz of ESPN/Draft Express had Bamba 4th: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/underestimated23846350/2018-nba-draft-mock-drafts-rankings-best-players-trade-assets-more

CBS Sports had Bamba as their No. 2 prospect: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2018-nba-draft-prospect-rankings-big-board-has-no-2-with-more-upside-than-likely-no-1-deandre-ayton/

Kevin O'Connor and Danny Chau of The Ringer had Bamba No. 3 and No. 4 respectively: https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2018/

Is he more raw than people expected he'd be? Sure.

Is he likely to hit his ceiling? Probably not.

But the combination of physical gifts and theoretical skill set was very real to a lot of people.

[Skybox]

The thing about Bamba is that he and Vuc, apparently, can't play together so he's stuck at 10-15 mpg. I don't see any way people are calling him a bust at this point. I just don't see how he gets to show anything without getting pt...practice is practice. He knows it's Vuc's spot and it should be. Bamba blocks shots, shoots 3's, rebounds and scores at a decent clip for his mpg. Those numbers don't easily project to 35 mins a game but either does the effect of a lack of any meaningful experience. Particularly, in basketball, as a big man, he's largely dependent on the other players around him and TRoss isn't exactly built for assists. I still think he MAY be really good. If he starts to show any real growth, he'll probably cause some trouble with the FO hiding him.

[Magic#1]

Well, if you had told me at the beginning of the year that we would win more playoff games than Philly and potentially Indy, I' would have been really excited about our season. It's not much, but I think you could say it's "something."

[zaymon]

Well, if you had told me at the beginning of the year that we would win more playoff games than Philly and potentially Indy, I' would have been really excited about our season. It's not much, but I think you could say it's "something."

Phily is disgusting. Embiid playing like he didnt care. Its not all about stars.

[Skin]

Bamba being blamed for the Magic losing in the playoffs by posters who didn't like him during the draft is just too funny. Bamba is a second year player who gained the necessary weight needed and then got covid.

Why don't you blame the guys actually playing? The guys getting paid the most on the team... The coach who was adored after game 1...

[pepe1991]

Bamba being blamed for the Magic losing in the playoffs by posters who didn't like him during the draft is just too funny. Bamba is a second year player who gained the necessary weight needed and then got covid.

Why don't you blame the guys actually playing? The guys getting paid the most on the team... The coach who was adored after game 1...

I have seen vast majority of the comments since playoffs started. Not a single person blamed Bamba for losing in playoffs.
What's Bamba's ( or by default, fault of any lottery draft pick ) fault, is that team used 6th draft pick on him, yet , he simply did not show anything to justfy that selection. Nor he raised team ceiling like Young, Doncic, SGA or Ayton ( or even Porter Jr) did .

Not only that he tends to be injury prone , he is underperforms expetations set by such a high lottery standards.

6th pick standards are Isaac, Brandon Roy, Lillard , Hield , Smart... and he tends to play like some of the worst 6th picks Vesely, WSC, Udoh.... Funny thing is that almost all 6th picks that were centers in last 15 years turned into pretty underwhelming players , given lottery expetations.

Era of drafting and devleoping players for 5-8 years is simply over. Rookies do not have so much time to develop, most of good ones are shining from gates. Most of bad ones are turned into career backups soon. Bamba is way closer to second category.

[SOUL]

Well, if you had told me at the beginning of the year that we would win more playoff games than Philly and potentially Indy, I' would have been really excited about our season. It's not much, but I think you could say it's "something."

Phily is disgusting. Embiid playing like he didnt care. Its not all about stars.

Embiid had no help to be fair. Dropping 30/10 a game and "not caring" is

[zaymon]

Well, if you had told me at the beginning of the year that we would win more playoff games than Philly and potentially Indy, I' would have been really excited about our season. It's not much, but I think you could say it's "something."

Phily is disgusting. Embiid playing like he didnt care. Its not all about stars.

Embiid had no help to be fair. Dropping 30/10 a game and "not caring" is

Yes he is a monster, but his body language was awful.

[pepe1991]

Well, if you had told me at the beginning of the year that we would win more playoff games than Philly and potentially Indy, I' would have been really excited about our season. It's not much, but I think you could say it's "something."

Phily is disgusting. Embiid playing like he didnt care. Its not all about stars.

Embiid had no help to be fair. Dropping 30/10 a game and "not caring" is

Their main issue is usage of cap space to spread talent around
Embiid is still elite, with Simmons the would play much better

But Harris and Horford eat sooooooooo much cap space to the point where it's impossible to build sustainable and competitive roster, and Horford fell off cliff and Harris should not be payed like a 1# option. He simply is not that guy.

But once again, 76ers main issue was moving up in draft in 2018 where they achived nothing, just lost chance to grab Tatum and day when they used Covington and Šarić to draft for Butler who turned into rental. With complete hindsight, Covington and Saric combined make less than Horford, and Horford has been disaster for whole year.

[BadMofoPimp]

The million dollar question... how do the Magic acquire a guard/wing who can score and assist when they have no cap space, no valuable trade assets and the 15th draft pick?

Question should be, how do teams like Miami, Cavaliers, Lakers etc all make those trades for superstars when they have much worse cap situations?

The Lakers, Heat and Cavaliers all signed LeBron James as a free agent. The end.

(and yes I know technically LeBron to Miami was a sign and trade, but he was signing there regardless.)

So, they signed or made trades when they were in worse financial situation than the Magic at the end of the prior season. Hmmm, seems to defeat the salary cap premise the defeatists here continually blame for all the teams problems. I bet if any superstar wanted to come here, the Magic Could make it happen regardless of the current salary cap.

[Bensational]

The thing about Bamba is that he and Vuc, apparently, can't play together so he's stuck at 10-15 mpg. I don't see any way people are calling him a bust at this point. I just don't see how he gets to show anything without getting pt...practice is practice. He knows it's Vuc's spot and it should be. Bamba blocks shots, shoots 3's, rebounds and scores at a decent clip for his mpg. Those numbers don't easily project to 35 mins a game but either does the effect of a lack of any meaningful experience. Particularly, in basketball, as a big man, he's largely dependent on the other players around him and TRoss isn't exactly built for assists. I still think he MAY be really good. If he starts to show any real growth, he'll probably cause some trouble with the FO hiding him.

As our forwards have shown this season - can't have too much depth. Once Bamba gets healthy and improves his cardio, he'll get more minutes. Even as a means for giving Vuc rest during the season. Say, on b2b's Vuc and Bamba split it 24/24, or 20/28.

[RookieStar]

The thing about Bamba is that he and Vuc, apparently, can't play together so he's stuck at 10-15 mpg. I don't see any way people are calling him a bust at this point. I just don't see how he gets to show anything without getting pt...practice is practice. He knows it's Vuc's spot and it should be. Bamba blocks shots, shoots 3's, rebounds and scores at a decent clip for his mpg. Those numbers don't easily project to 35 mins a game but either does the effect of a lack of any meaningful experience. Particularly, in basketball, as a big man, he's largely dependent on the other players around him and TRoss isn't exactly built for assists. I still think he MAY be really good. If he starts to show any real growth, he'll probably cause some trouble with the FO hiding him.

As our forwards have shown this season - can't have too much depth. Once Bamba gets healthy and improves his cardio, he'll get more minutes. Even as a means for giving Vuc rest during the season. Say, on b2b's Vuc and Bamba split it 24/24, or 20/28.

Gotta agree... beginning of this season I was questioning the sanity of our FO when we already had 2 PFs in AG and JI, with one F/C in Birch plus a G-league in Amile. We signed another PF in Aminu and drafted a rookie SF/PF in Okeke...

Months later in the PFs and we have a new one we just recently signed starting the PF slot.

[Skin]

Bamba being blamed for the Magic losing in the playoffs by posters who didn't like him during the draft is just too funny. Bamba is a second year player who gained the necessary weight needed and then got covid.

Why don't you blame the guys actually playing? The guys getting paid the most on the team... The coach who was adored after game 1...

I have seen vast majority of the comments since playoffs started. Not a single person blamed Bamba for losing in playoffs.
What's Bamba's ( or by default, fault of any lottery draft pick ) fault, is that team used 6th draft pick on him, yet , he simply did not show anything to justfy that selection. Nor he raised team ceiling like Young, Doncic, SGA or Ayton ( or even Porter Jr) did .

Not only that he tends to be injury prone , he is underperforms expetations set by such a high lottery standards.

6th pick standards are Isaac, Brandon Roy, Lillard , Hield , Smart... and he tends to play like some of the worst 6th picks Vesely, WSC, Udoh.... Funny thing is that almost all 6th picks that were centers in last 15 years turned into pretty underwhelming players , given lottery expetations.

Era of drafting and devleoping players for 5-8 years is simply over. Rookies do not have so much time to develop, most of good ones are shining from gates. Most of bad ones are turned into career backups soon. Bamba is way closer to second category.

Those guys have either been picked ahead of him or more importantly did not have their team sign their highest paid player at their position to play in front of them.

I'd be perfectly fine criticizing Bamba if he was playing like a starter and the team actually invested in him and we was playing bad, but instead they continue their desire to build this team around Vuc, and we keep losing so that's where the criticism should lie.

Bamba probably has higher trade value than Vuc. Yet he's getting blame for what? Not unseating Vuc in Vuc's first year of his megadeal? Lol

[Skybox]

The thing about Bamba is that he and Vuc, apparently, can't play together so he's stuck at 10-15 mpg. I don't see any way people are calling him a bust at this point. I just don't see how he gets to show anything without getting pt...practice is practice. He knows it's Vuc's spot and it should be. Bamba blocks shots, shoots 3's, rebounds and scores at a decent clip for his mpg. Those numbers don't easily project to 35 mins a game but either does the effect of a lack of any meaningful experience. Particularly, in basketball, as a big man, he's largely dependent on the other players around him and TRoss isn't exactly built for assists. I still think he MAY be really good. If he starts to show any real growth, he'll probably cause some trouble with the FO hiding him.

As our forwards have shown this season - can't have too much depth. Once Bamba gets healthy and improves his cardio, he'll get more minutes. Even as a means for giving Vuc rest during the season. Say, on b2b's Vuc and Bamba split it 24/24, or 20/28.

You really think they'll drop Vuc's minutes down to 24-28 to develop Bamba. I don't.

[Bensational]

The thing about Bamba is that he and Vuc, apparently, can't play together so he's stuck at 10-15 mpg. I don't see any way people are calling him a bust at this point. I just don't see how he gets to show anything without getting pt...practice is practice. He knows it's Vuc's spot and it should be. Bamba blocks shots, shoots 3's, rebounds and scores at a decent clip for his mpg. Those numbers don't easily project to 35 mins a game but either does the effect of a lack of any meaningful experience. Particularly, in basketball, as a big man, he's largely dependent on the other players around him and TRoss isn't exactly built for assists. I still think he MAY be really good. If he starts to show any real growth, he'll probably cause some trouble with the FO hiding him.

As our forwards have shown this season - can't have too much depth. Once Bamba gets healthy and improves his cardio, he'll get more minutes. Even as a means for giving Vuc rest during the season. Say, on b2b's Vuc and Bamba split it 24/24, or 20/28.

You really think they'll drop Vuc's minutes down to 24-28 to develop Bamba. I don't.

No, they'll do it to preserve Vuc through the season, and I'm not saying every other game. The team would play 12-15 back-to-backs in a season, so that's not going to crush Vuc's spirit to rest it up on those nights. Otherwise it should be 30/18 split, which seems about all Bamba's cardio can handle right now.

[fendilim]

Bamba being blamed for the Magic losing in the playoffs by posters who didn't like him during the draft is just too funny. Bamba is a second year player who gained the necessary weight needed and then got covid.

Why don't you blame the guys actually playing? The guys getting paid the most on the team... The coach who was adored after game 1...

I have seen vast majority of the comments since playoffs started. Not a single person blamed Bamba for losing in playoffs.
What's Bamba's ( or by default, fault of any lottery draft pick ) fault, is that team used 6th draft pick on him, yet , he simply did not show anything to justfy that selection. Nor he raised team ceiling like Young, Doncic, SGA or Ayton ( or even Porter Jr) did .

Not only that he tends to be injury prone , he is underperforms expetations set by such a high lottery standards.

6th pick standards are Isaac, Brandon Roy, Lillard , Hield , Smart... and he tends to play like some of the worst 6th picks Vesely, WSC, Udoh.... Funny thing is that almost all 6th picks that were centers in last 15 years turned into pretty underwhelming players , given lottery expetations.

Era of drafting and devleoping players for 5-8 years is simply over. Rookies do not have so much time to develop, most of good ones are shining from gates. Most of bad ones are turned into career backups soon. Bamba is way closer to second category.

Those guys have either been picked ahead of him or more importantly did not have their team sign their highest paid player at their position to play in front of them.

I'd be perfectly fine criticizing Bamba if he was playing like a starter and the team actually invested in him and we was playing bad, but instead they continue their desire to build this team around Vuc, and we keep losing so that's where the criticism should lie.

Bamba probably has higher trade value than Vuc. Yet he's getting blame for what? Not unseating Vuc in Vuc's first year of his megadeal? Lol

LOL. “bamba has higher trade value than Vuc.” LOL

[Skin]

I have seen vast majority of the comments since playoffs started. Not a single person blamed Bamba for losing in playoffs.
What's Bamba's ( or by default, fault of any lottery draft pick ) fault, is that team used 6th draft pick on him, yet , he simply did not show anything to justfy that selection. Nor he raised team ceiling like Young, Doncic, SGA or Ayton ( or even Porter Jr) did .

Not only that he tends to be injury prone , he is underperforms expetations set by such a high lottery standards.

6th pick standards are Isaac, Brandon Roy, Lillard , Hield , Smart... and he tends to play like some of the worst 6th picks Vesely, WSC, Udoh.... Funny thing is that almost all 6th picks that were centers in last 15 years turned into pretty underwhelming players , given lottery expetations.

Era of drafting and devleoping players for 5-8 years is simply over. Rookies do not have so much time to develop, most of good ones are shining from gates. Most of bad ones are turned into career backups soon. Bamba is way closer to second category.

Those guys have either been picked ahead of him or more importantly did not have their team sign their highest paid player at their position to play in front of them.

I'd be perfectly fine criticizing Bamba if he was playing like a starter and the team actually invested in him and we was playing bad, but instead they continue their desire to build this team around Vuc, and we keep losing so that's where the criticism should lie.

Bamba probably has higher trade value than Vuc. Yet he's getting blame for what? Not unseating Vuc in Vuc's first year of his megadeal? Lol

LOL. “bamba has higher trade value than Vuc.” LOL

I said probably, but I actually think it's funny that you think that's funny.

Go see what trade interest you can get for Vuc in the T/T forum or other teams forums. I've done it, maybe it would be a wake up call for you.