2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes

[Ghost of Kleine]

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I really like him as a cheaper defensive 2/3 option than in trading for Richardson, IF Vassell is off the board. What do you guys think he would cost?

Am I alone in thinking that all of the Holiday's are more fool's gold than not?

Just curious, But what about him exactly do you consider equatable to fools gold?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Be honest. You want the entire league to play for the Suns. You've gone through every team's bench and made a hypothetical trade for almost every player.

I do like Holiday though.

For added depth? Sure!
But honestly, Don't you think it's a bit excessive to say every team? it's only like half the league currently!

Honestly man I get it. You and others are occasionally "put off" by my propensity for trades. And you'd just prefer to keep the roster as is, and roll forward. That's perfectly fine, And you're entitled to that perspective. But I have a differing perspectives that we need to upgrade center positions with more productive, higher quality depth. So with respect to that, I explore ways to accomplish that. And after all, isn't that what an offseason and Trade speculation thread is for?

Have at it! I'm not really put off per say, just think many of them have the value severely lopsided in one team's favor. Continue posting, who knows when the season actually starts and I think many of us enjoy the chatter.

That's cool. I'll humor you on the severely lopsided value perspective. Since there are so many, Can you give me an example of one? And why you specifically think that it is lopsided in terms of value? So that I can hopefully remedy that opinion in the future.

[King4Day]

Embiid sounded like he was done with the 6ers today. Should the FO pursue?

In a heartbeat!! Booker and Embiid are a nightmare for opposing teams. Not sure if the 76ers would accept Oubre, Ayton, 10th pick.. we might have to throw in multiple 1st rounds picks or Cam or Mikal. I vote draft picks!

Rubio Booker Mikal Cam Embiid paired with Monty sounds great to me!! Embiid is EVERYTHING we want Ayton to develop to.


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I agreed not straight up but if we can get a 3rd team like NO, who is a perfect fit, to take Horford they just might bite. That helps them out immensely considering they're on the books for 149 mill next season.

I believe Horford's contract has become unmovable at this point. 3 years at around 30 mil per left.

I think we could find a 1 for 1 deal that Philly would take. He'd be out of the east which I'm sure they'd want and I'm sure they would be happy knowing he's going to a franchise that isn't very good so he can't burn them in the future.

Probably have to another pick or 2 to it but I'd go for it. Booker has 4 years left. By any means necessary.

[Revived]

For like the last 4 or 5 NBA off seasons, there has been a crazy amount of changes in the off season. I’m really curious to see if that happens this season too with the bubble and pandemic and everything.

I feel like there will be at least one playoff team which decides to a crazy blowup or shift in strategy. I would guess Philly or Portland.

[Barkley6]

For like the last 4 or 5 NBA off seasons, there has been a crazy amount of changes in the off season. I’m really curious to see if that happens this season too with the bubble and pandemic and everything.

I feel like there will be at least one playoff team which decides to a crazy blowup or shift in strategy. I would guess Philly or Portland.

Doubt it will be Portland. If they had been healthier this season they would be a 4-6 seed. They are a team that looks and feels like they are one or two pieces away from being a title contender.

[BobbieL]

For like the last 4 or 5 NBA off seasons, there has been a crazy amount of changes in the off season. I’m really curious to see if that happens this season too with the bubble and pandemic and everything.

I feel like there will be at least one playoff team which decides to a crazy blowup or shift in strategy. I would guess Philly or Portland.

Doubt it will be Portland. If they had been healthier this season they would be a 4-6 seed. They are a team that looks and feels like they are one or two pieces away from being a title contender.

Philly, maybe a bit in New Orleans are truly the only teams I see trying to shake things up a bit. In New Orleans, I can see them moving on from FAvors; maybe trying to move Reddick.

Philly - nobody is touching HOrford. Not sure I want Embid or JRich. Something about Embids game is more style than substance. Maybe I need to watch closer.

[Barkley6]

In a heartbeat!! Booker and Embiid are a nightmare for opposing teams. Not sure if the 76ers would accept Oubre, Ayton, 10th pick.. we might have to throw in multiple 1st rounds picks or Cam or Mikal. I vote draft picks!

Rubio Booker Mikal Cam Embiid paired with Monty sounds great to me!! Embiid is EVERYTHING we want Ayton to develop to.


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I agreed not straight up but if we can get a 3rd team like NO, who is a perfect fit, to take Horford they just might bite. That helps them out immensely considering they're on the books for 149 mill next season.

I believe Horford's contract has become unmovable at this point. 3 years at around 30 mil per left.

I think we could find a 1 for 1 deal that Philly would take. He'd be out of the east which I'm sure they'd want and I'm sure they would be happy knowing he's going to a franchise that isn't very good so he can't burn them in the future.

Probably have to another pick or 2 to it but I'd go for it. Booker has 4 years left. By any means necessary.

Yes, the Booker window is 4 years, but I have to ask if it's better to have Ayton on a rookie deal in the 20-21 offseason when we figure to be big players in the free agent market, or make Joel Embiid our big move?

Obviously Embiid is the superior player to Ayton, but I'm not sure he's enough of an upgrade to make that our sole big move in the next two years.

In other words, would you rather have Embiid, or, the possibility of Ayton plus 1 or 2 other players? Depending on how salaries shake out this offseason, the Suns could easily have max room plus some in 2021, Would you want to make a run at Kawhi, Paul George, or Giannis? And then money left to fill in another rotation spot?

I'd rather keep Ayton, despite his flaws, and potentially add a superstar, and a rotation player next offseason than swap one starting C (and other assets!) for another starting C.

To put it in perspective, the Suns would likely have close to 35 million freed up if they let their FAs walk and declined options on guys like Jerome. Thats enough to go after a max superstar, or to go after a very good player who is an RFA coming off their rookie deal. You could throw rookie scale max money at a guy like De'Aaron Fox, or Jayson Tatum, and still have a few million left over, or split that money between two guys who won't command max money like Lauri Markkanen, Kyle Kuzma, Bam Adebayo, or John Collins.

To me, Ayton plus one of those guys is better value than Embiid.

[sunskerr]

Read on Twitter

Saw this tweet from the thread on the GB. Fred is a great player.

Apparently we're interested in his services. He plays 36 MPG and probably should be starting. How do we fit him in? Do we go with

Rubio
Van Vleet
Booker
one of our wings
Ayton

if we acquire him? That's the only feasible way I can see us doing this unless we move Rubio. FVV is honestly really **** good this year. Great defense at PG, and is shooting 40% from 3 and makes 2.7 3PG. In other words he's kinda better than Rubio, although I think they're comparable in overall talent. I think FVV is fairly similar to Chris Paul this year in that he's a small PG who can run an offense very well, knock down shots and play impactful defense.

Of course, we could sign him and he could come off the bench. He could take up the lion's share of the minutes at both backup PG/SG, filling in for both Booker and Rubio. That would be something to see. Although he might also just want a starting role in addition to getting paid. Lord knows he's earned it.

Either way, if we got him we better be damn sure to maximize his role and give him all he can handle in terms of role (running an offense and scoring) and minutes (at least ~34 mpg because again he played 36 mph this year) because he's become a very good player.

Overall, I feel like I still prefer to try and keep cap open for 2021 where we can try to net an absolute star. But at the same time, there's always the possibility of clearing up cap room by making trades in the 2021 offseason or whatnot. And we'd have to have a good record for star free agents to actually consider us. Maybe Fred can get us there. I don't know. Nobody knows.

[Barkley6]

Read on Twitter

Saw this tweet from the thread on the GB. Fred is a great player.

Apparently we're interested in his services. He plays 36 MPG and probably should be starting. How do we fit him in? Do we go with

Rubio
Van Vleet
Booker
one of our wings
Ayton

if we acquire him? That's the only feasible way I can see us doing this unless we move Rubio. FVV is honestly really **** good this year. Great defense at PG, and is shooting 40% from 3 and makes 2.7 3PG. In other words he's kinda better than Rubio, although I think they're comparable in overall talent. I think FVV is fairly similar to Chris Paul this year in that he's a small PG who can run an offense very well, knock down shots and play impactful defense.

Of course, we could sign him and he could come off the bench. He could take up the lion's share of the minutes at both backup PG/SG, filling in for both Booker and Rubio. That would be something to see. Although he might also just want a starting role in addition to getting paid. Lord knows he's earned it.

Either way, if we got him we better be damn sure to maximize his role and give him all he can handle in terms of role (running an offense and scoring) and minutes (at least ~34 mpg because again he played 36 mph this year) because he's become a very good player.

Overall, I feel like I still prefer to try and keep cap open for 2021 where we can try to net an absolute star. But at the same time, there's always the possibility of clearing up cap room by making trades in the 2021 offseason or whatnot. And we'd have to have a good record for star free agents to actually consider us. Maybe Fred can get us there. I don't know. Nobody knows.

I just don't know how we pay him. We'd have to move Rubio and I really don't think that's a smart move because he's become our leader on and off the court. FVV will get more than the MLE, so unless we have a salary dump move planned I just don't see this happening.

[Crives]

Read on Twitter

Saw this tweet from the thread on the GB. Fred is a great player.

Apparently we're interested in his services. He plays 36 MPG and probably should be starting. How do we fit him in? Do we go with

Rubio
Van Vleet
Booker
one of our wings
Ayton

if we acquire him? That's the only feasible way I can see us doing this unless we move Rubio. FVV is honestly really **** good this year. Great defense at PG, and is shooting 40% from 3 and makes 2.7 3PG. In other words he's kinda better than Rubio, although I think they're comparable in overall talent. I think FVV is fairly similar to Chris Paul this year in that he's a small PG who can run an offense very well, knock down shots and play impactful defense.

Of course, we could sign him and he could come off the bench. He could take up the lion's share of the minutes at both backup PG/SG, filling in for both Booker and Rubio. That would be something to see. Although he might also just want a starting role in addition to getting paid. Lord knows he's earned it.

Either way, if we got him we better be damn sure to maximize his role and give him all he can handle in terms of role (running an offense and scoring) and minutes (at least ~34 mpg because again he played 36 mph this year) because he's become a very good player.

Overall, I feel like I still prefer to try and keep cap open for 2021 where we can try to net an absolute star. But at the same time, there's always the possibility of clearing up cap room by making trades in the 2021 offseason or whatnot. And we'd have to have a good record for star free agents to actually consider us. Maybe Fred can get us there. I don't know. Nobody knows.

I just don't know how we pay him. We'd have to move Rubio and I really don't think that's a smart move because he's become our leader on and off the court. FVV will get more than the MLE, so unless we have a salary dump move planned I just don't see this happening.

No reason to move Rubio. Likely means we are saying goodbye to Saric/Baynes or Kelly. Most likely this is just FVV agent trying to up his value with Toronto.

[Mr Puddles]

I agreed not straight up but if we can get a 3rd team like NO, who is a perfect fit, to take Horford they just might bite. That helps them out immensely considering they're on the books for 149 mill next season.

I believe Horford's contract has become unmovable at this point. 3 years at around 30 mil per left.

I think we could find a 1 for 1 deal that Philly would take. He'd be out of the east which I'm sure they'd want and I'm sure they would be happy knowing he's going to a franchise that isn't very good so he can't burn them in the future.

Probably have to another pick or 2 to it but I'd go for it. Booker has 4 years left. By any means necessary.

Yes, the Booker window is 4 years, but I have to ask if it's better to have Ayton on a rookie deal in the 20-21 offseason when we figure to be big players in the free agent market, or make Joel Embiid our big move?

Obviously Embiid is the superior player to Ayton, but I'm not sure he's enough of an upgrade to make that our sole big move in the next two years.

In other words, would you rather have Embiid, or, the possibility of Ayton plus 1 or 2 other players? Depending on how salaries shake out this offseason, the Suns could easily have max room plus some in 2021, Would you want to make a run at Kawhi, Paul George, or Giannis? And then money left to fill in another rotation spot?

I'd rather keep Ayton, despite his flaws, and potentially add a superstar, and a rotation player next offseason than swap one starting C (and other assets!) for another starting C.

To put it in perspective, the Suns would likely have close to 35 million freed up if they let their FAs walk and declined options on guys like Jerome. Thats enough to go after a max superstar, or to go after a very good player who is an RFA coming off their rookie deal. You could throw rookie scale max money at a guy like De'Aaron Fox, or Jayson Tatum, and still have a few million left over, or split that money between two guys who won't command max money like Lauri Markkanen, Kyle Kuzma, Bam Adebayo, or John Collins.

To me, Ayton plus one of those guys is better value than Embiid.

Embiid's injury history also scares me. The guy was drafted in 2014 and the most games he's ever played in a season so far is 64. He's also notoriously overweight which is a bad thing for a big man struggling with injuries.

[Barkley6]

Read on Twitter

Saw this tweet from the thread on the GB. Fred is a great player.

Apparently we're interested in his services. He plays 36 MPG and probably should be starting. How do we fit him in? Do we go with

Rubio
Van Vleet
Booker
one of our wings
Ayton

if we acquire him? That's the only feasible way I can see us doing this unless we move Rubio. FVV is honestly really **** good this year. Great defense at PG, and is shooting 40% from 3 and makes 2.7 3PG. In other words he's kinda better than Rubio, although I think they're comparable in overall talent. I think FVV is fairly similar to Chris Paul this year in that he's a small PG who can run an offense very well, knock down shots and play impactful defense.

Of course, we could sign him and he could come off the bench. He could take up the lion's share of the minutes at both backup PG/SG, filling in for both Booker and Rubio. That would be something to see. Although he might also just want a starting role in addition to getting paid. Lord knows he's earned it.

Either way, if we got him we better be damn sure to maximize his role and give him all he can handle in terms of role (running an offense and scoring) and minutes (at least ~34 mpg because again he played 36 mph this year) because he's become a very good player.

Overall, I feel like I still prefer to try and keep cap open for 2021 where we can try to net an absolute star. But at the same time, there's always the possibility of clearing up cap room by making trades in the 2021 offseason or whatnot. And we'd have to have a good record for star free agents to actually consider us. Maybe Fred can get us there. I don't know. Nobody knows.

I just don't know how we pay him. We'd have to move Rubio and I really don't think that's a smart move because he's become our leader on and off the court. FVV will get more than the MLE, so unless we have a salary dump move planned I just don't see this happening.

No reason to move Rubio. Likely means we are saying goodbye to Saric/Baynes or Kelly. Most likely this is just FVV agent trying to up his value with Toronto.

Agreed. Gotta think FVV wouldn't want to give up being a perennial contender on Toronto for whatever garbage rebuild New York is planning, and who even knows what Detroit is doing?

Throwing Phoenix in the mix is believable enough as they are a team on the rise, that Toronto ponies up and pays him.

[BobbieL]

FVV is a good player. Will only get better. I wouldn't move on from Rubio. This probably means moving on from Baynes and Saric. At least Baynes, Diallo, Kaminsky, and probably Payne too.

[Mr Puddles]

FVV is a good player. Will only get better. I wouldn't move on from Rubio. This probably means moving on from Baynes and Saric. At least Baynes, Diallo, Kaminsky, and probably Payne too.

I highly doubt that Fredderick signs with us if we don't give him the starting PG slot. He might as well return to Toronto then and eventually take over the reigns from Lowry, or sign with the Knicks or Pistons who will both surely promise him the starting PG spot.

Signing Fredderick probably means we're going to have offload Rubio for 69 cents on the dollar TJ Warren style.

[BobbieL]

FVV is a good player. Will only get better. I wouldn't move on from Rubio. This probably means moving on from Baynes and Saric. At least Baynes, Diallo, Kaminsky, and probably Payne too.

I highly doubt that Fredderick signs with us if we don't give him the starting PG slot. He might as well return to Toronto then and eventually take over the reigns from Lowry, or sign with the Knicks or Pistons who will both surely promise him the starting PG spot.

Signing Fredderick probably means we're going to have offload Rubio for 69 cents on the dollar TJ Warren style.

I actually like Rubio for this team. Doesn't mean you shouldn't look to upgrade the roster but I think Rubio is a key component and think he brings a ton of value that FVV may not bring. I see FVV more as a combo.

Sign the Dragon or augustin

[Mr Puddles]

FVV is a good player. Will only get better. I wouldn't move on from Rubio. This probably means moving on from Baynes and Saric. At least Baynes, Diallo, Kaminsky, and probably Payne too.

I highly doubt that Fredderick signs with us if we don't give him the starting PG slot. He might as well return to Toronto then and eventually take over the reigns from Lowry, or sign with the Knicks or Pistons who will both surely promise him the starting PG spot.

Signing Fredderick probably means we're going to have offload Rubio for 69 cents on the dollar TJ Warren style.

I actually like Rubio for this team. Doesn't mean you shouldn't look to upgrade the roster but I think Rubio is a key component and think he brings a ton of value that FVV may not bring. I see FVV more as a combo.

Sign the Dragon or augustin

I agree. Don't think we should risk breaking up the current chemistry unless we can acquire a bonafide star at a good price. Otherwise, keep the nucleus in tact and fill out the roster with a couple complimentary pieces. I'll be OK with bringing back everyone, adding this year's pick, and just building on the momentum of the bubble ball games.

[Revived]

We would be pretty stupid to move on from Rubio. Especially after he shot a career high from 3 too.

He actually shot higher from 3 than Booker did.

[BobbieL]

We would be pretty stupid to move on from Rubio. Especially after he shot a career high from 3 too.

He actually shot higher from 3 than Booker did.

Plus -- I think he is more a pure PG - I like that!

if FVV wants to sign to be on the bench - granted that would mean no FA in 2021 and Saris probably gone

I think - sign Augustin or Dragic

[Barkley6]

FVV is a good player. Will only get better. I wouldn't move on from Rubio. This probably means moving on from Baynes and Saric. At least Baynes, Diallo, Kaminsky, and probably Payne too.

I highly doubt that Fredderick signs with us if we don't give him the starting PG slot. He might as well return to Toronto then and eventually take over the reigns from Lowry, or sign with the Knicks or Pistons who will both surely promise him the starting PG spot.

Signing Fredderick probably means we're going to have offload Rubio for 69 cents on the dollar TJ Warren style.

I actually like Rubio for this team. Doesn't mean you shouldn't look to upgrade the roster but I think Rubio is a key component and think he brings a ton of value that FVV may not bring. I see FVV more as a combo.

Sign the Dragon or augustin

Yup. Re-sign Dario and Baynes. Add Dragic and 1-2 bigs via either draft of FA and then rock with what we've got.

[Barkley6]

We would be pretty stupid to move on from Rubio. Especially after he shot a career high from 3 too.

He actually shot higher from 3 than Booker did.

Plus -- I think he is more a pure PG - I like that!

if FVV wants to sign to be on the bench - granted that would mean no FA in 2021 and Saris probably gone

I think - sign Augustin or Dragic

I don't hate Augustin, but his shooting percentage from inside the 3pt arc is flat out garbage. Would much rather Dragic.