2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th!

[PlayerUp]

AK has already said he gives very little weight to workouts and bases his reviews on in game play.

AK has also said he'll mainly be judging players by their live play in front of him and their personal interviews, so for Chicago who we pick will probably be mostly determined by their private workouts with us.

[PlayerUp]

There's plenty of diligent students of his tape over on Twitter who concur with the same issues over his HS/AAU sample.

I agree that those things will be more important than usual, but let's be honest, things like the combine and workouts can more often be red herrings than valuable pieces of information. All too often we hear teams being swayed by a strong workout or measurements when in reality, all those things, if translatable to the court, are clearly evidenced over the entire sample of competitive play up to that point.

Apart from very particular observations you can only make in person, I would put very little weight into pre-draft workouts, in particular.

More specifically, in this draft guys like say Obi who we have questions about his defense and his shot. If he performs well in workouts and you see his shot is solid and his defense has potential, he could move into the top 5 quickly. Other prospects like Isaac Okoro also have that same path who showed they're very limited offensively but if they have developed a nice shot and some offense over the course of 5+ months, could shoot up as well.

Main thing here is the NCAA season stopped several months ago. We have film on these players. Now we need to see who has improved and who hasn't. That's the biggest issue with drafting players. There are those who improve immensely in the NBA and those who don't. Gar/Pax drafted too many prospects over the years that have shown very little improvement Denzel, Lauri, Wendell since entering the NBA.

Since we didn't see a full NCAA season and lack tournament film, these predraft workouts and seeing who has improved, who made adjustments and who hasn't should ultimately be a big factor in our decision on who to take.

[Chi town]

AK has already said he gives very little weight to workouts and bases his reviews on in game play.

AK has also said he'll mainly be judging players by their live play in front of him and their personal interviews, so for Chicago who we pick will probably be mostly determined by their private workouts with us.

Hmm. Not what I read.

[Chi town]

There's plenty of diligent students of his tape over on Twitter who concur with the same issues over his HS/AAU sample.

I agree that those things will be more important than usual, but let's be honest, things like the combine and workouts can more often be red herrings than valuable pieces of information. All too often we hear teams being swayed by a strong workout or measurements when in reality, all those things, if translatable to the court, are clearly evidenced over the entire sample of competitive play up to that point.

Apart from very particular observations you can only make in person, I would put very little weight into pre-draft workouts, in particular.

More specifically, in this draft guys like say Obi who we have questions about his defense and his shot. If he performs well in workouts and you see his shot is solid and his defense has potential, he could move into the top 5 quickly. Other prospects like Isaac Okoro also have that same path who showed they're very limited offensively but if they have developed a nice shot and some offense over the course of 5+ months, could shoot up as well.

Main thing here is the NCAA season stopped several months ago. We have film on these players. Now we need to see who has improved and who hasn't. That's the biggest issue with drafting players. There are those who improve immensely in the NBA and those who don't. Gar/Pax drafted too many prospects over the years that have shown very little improvement Denzel, Lauri, Wendell since entering the NBA.

Since we didn't see a full NCAA season and lack tournament film, these predraft workouts and seeing who has improved, who made adjustments and who hasn't should ultimately be a big factor in our decision on who to take.

That’s tough to see in an empty gym.

There will be no workouts where players play against each other per Covid protocol. Will probably just be filmed pro days like in NFL and zoom interviews.

[BullsFTW]

I didn’t follow Isaac Okoro much, just saw a couple of highlights of him. He’s a very fluid athlete, can attack the basket, and seems like an all around defender. He’s not lengthy and needs to improve his shooting. Reminds me of a Jimmy Butler type.

[MrFortune3]

Not a fan of Wiseman either.

We already have a player who can do what Wiseman can do in Gafford.

Wiseman is a different breed than anything we have on the roster. Disliking Wiseman is one thing, saying something like this is just disingenuous.

[sco]

Not a fan of Wiseman either.

We already have a player who can do what Wiseman can do in Gafford.

Wiseman is a different breed than anything we have on the roster. Disliking Wiseman is one thing, saying something like this is just disingenuous.

Statistically, using a high pick on a big man in the top 5 picks in recent years has shown not to be a good pick. IMO, Wiseman's appeal is that he's shown less last season, and most didn't like what they saw from others. So it's like saying "I know these other guys' aren't stars, I haven't seen you, so I must like you better - despite the fact that you showed nothing special."

I will say kudos to Wiseman for getting the most value out of not playing.

[Bulldog23]

This draft isn’t terrible, I think this draft has more freshman that need developing. There are very few polished players. The Bulls need a center and wing help.

[TheFinishSniper]

This draft isn’t terrible, I think this draft has more freshman that need developing. There are very few polished players. The Bulls need a center and wing help.

this is just wrong. we need PG, SF, PF and C

[chefo]

Man, this board is a tough crowd that just wants an adrenaline shot real bad. Trading WCJ or Lauri to move up 2 spots in a draft that's considered one of the worst in terms of prospects in a decade? For real?

Lauri was a 19/9 PF making 3 3s / game as a soph. He's also the only player on the team apart from Zach that teams game-plan for. Before the start of last season, him and Tatum were considered a 1a and 1b in that draft and nobody would have thought of trading him for any player short of a young star.

WCJ, for all his injuries and coach-mandated limitations on O, is still a pretty useful starter in this league, especially if he loses 10-15 pounds. Kid is a good and smart defender and just needs to stay healthy and trim to be a 14/10/2 player with decent-to-good defense.

Both have shown that they CAN play. Not maybe, kind of, play--they have actually performed well against NBA talent. Post Euro championship 19-year old Lauri goes 1st in this year's draft and it's not even that close, given all the holes in the games of the talent on the board.

I don't particularly like many of the top prospects, and to trade useful NBA players to trade up for unknowns with gaping holes in their games sounds like poor decision-making and gambling. Besides, even if you want to trade them, you'd be better off waiting for half a season under a coach with a functional-bball-IQ before dealing any of the guys, because there's about zero point in trading them after Jimbo somehow managed to tank their value from near untouchables to dregs in just over half a season.

[jump]

Man, this board is a tough crowd that just wants an adrenaline shot real bad. Trading WCJ or Lauri to move up 2 spots in a draft that's considered one of the worst in terms of prospects in a decade? For real?

Lauri was a 19/9 PF making 3 3s / game as a soph. He's also the only player on the team apart from Zach that teams game-plan for. Before the start of last season, him and Tatum were considered a 1a and 1b in that draft and nobody would have thought of trading him for any player short of a young star.

WCJ, for all his injuries and coach-mandated limitations on O, is still a pretty useful starter in this league, especially if he loses 10-15 pounds. Kid is a good and smart defender and just needs to stay healthy and trim to be a 14/10/2 player with decent-to-good defense.

Both have shown that they CAN play. Not maybe, kind of, play--they have actually performed well against NBA talent. Post Euro championship 19-year old Lauri goes 1st in this year's draft and it's not even that close, given all the holes in the games of the talent on the board.

I don't particularly like many of the top prospects, and to trade useful NBA players to trade up for unknowns with gaping holes in their games sounds like poor decision-making and gambling. Besides, even if you want to trade them, you'd be better off waiting for half a season under a coach with a functional-bball-IQ before dealing any of the guys, because there's about zero point in trading them after Jimbo somehow managed to tank their value from near untouchables to dregs in just over half a season.

Thank you. Thank you. It amazes me how often posters here want to dump players even after one bad month. Immediate gratification is unrealistic in professional sports. It happens, but it is truly rare.

[drosereturn]

Wiseman is about the most disappointing selection I can think of at 4. Don't fall for him being a monster athlete, that's not the end all be all. How many dominant big men are there in today's game and how do they play? Wiseman does not have the requisite IQ/feel, skill level, or instincts on either end to be a star, imo. I don't dislike him, I think he'll be a starter in this league, but he's arguably the 4th best big in the draft, imo, let alone the 4th best player.

no wisemans height, wingspan, athleticism is at worst a top 3 pick in this draft.
its not like his jumper is broken to the point he will be limited to Whiteside/Capella.
Center position you need as much athleticism as possible to overpower your opponent like a Shaq/Howard enforcer.
Just look at our own Gafford. Him having elite athleticism is what makes him distinguishes from someone like Carter who is so slow and overweight he is getting useless. But Gafford alone is not enough and Wiseman is several times better version of him with range that can extend to the 3. Theres not a single wing/guard prospect thats simply better than Wiseman when they are unproven as well.

Obviously, a lot will depend on which team he will get drafted to. He will be a stud if he gets taught by Dray but I still want Chicago to nab him if Edwards and Ball are gone.

[Jordan Syndrome]

Spoiler:

Wiseman is about the most disappointing selection I can think of at 4. Don't fall for him being a monster athlete, that's not the end all be all. How many dominant big men are there in today's game and how do they play? Wiseman does not have the requisite IQ/feel, skill level, or instincts on either end to be a star, imo. I don't dislike him, I think he'll be a starter in this league, but he's arguably the 4th best big in the draft, imo, let alone the 4th best player.

no wisemans height, wingspan, athleticism is at worst a top 3 pick in this draft.
its not like his jumper is broken to the point he will be limited to Whiteside/Capella.
Center position you need as much athleticism as possible to overpower your opponent like a Shaq/Howard enforcer.
Just look at our own Gafford. Him having elite athleticism is what makes him distinguishes from someone like Carter who is so slow and overweight he is getting useless. But Gafford alone is enough and Wiseman is several times better version of him with range that can extend to the 3.

Obviously, a lot will depend on which team he will get drafted to. He will be a stud if he gets taught by Dray but I still want Chicago to nab him if Edwards and Ball are gone.

I think you should be careful with engaging with people who believe they can analyze a high school player with any sort of accuracy as "GimmeDat" does. I am sure the guy knows a lot more about specific prospects than I do but if someone posting on the internet is able to make claims of a guy widely regarded as a top-5 pick as "Arguably 4th best big man in the draft" means the guy is either a genius and should be hired by an NBA Team yesterday, or is very emotional about players in this draft and likely shouldn't be engaged with in meaningful discussion regarding the draft. Food for thought.

I think the best thing the Bulls can do with the pick is use it as a cornerstone trade for Embiid or Simmons. As soon as Philly hires a new GM the Bulls need to be on the phone with a strong offer, something like #4, 2022 Unprotected 1st, Lauri and Otto for Embiid.

[gobullschi]

Spoiler:

Wiseman is about the most disappointing selection I can think of at 4. Don't fall for him being a monster athlete, that's not the end all be all. How many dominant big men are there in today's game and how do they play? Wiseman does not have the requisite IQ/feel, skill level, or instincts on either end to be a star, imo. I don't dislike him, I think he'll be a starter in this league, but he's arguably the 4th best big in the draft, imo, let alone the 4th best player.

no wisemans height, wingspan, athleticism is at worst a top 3 pick in this draft.
its not like his jumper is broken to the point he will be limited to Whiteside/Capella.
Center position you need as much athleticism as possible to overpower your opponent like a Shaq/Howard enforcer.
Just look at our own Gafford. Him having elite athleticism is what makes him distinguishes from someone like Carter who is so slow and overweight he is getting useless. But Gafford alone is enough and Wiseman is several times better version of him with range that can extend to the 3.

Obviously, a lot will depend on which team he will get drafted to. He will be a stud if he gets taught by Dray but I still want Chicago to nab him if Edwards and Ball are gone.

I think you should be careful with engaging with people who believe they can analyze a high school player with any sort of accuracy as "GimmeDat" does. I am sure the guy knows a lot more about specific prospects than I do but if someone posting on the internet is able to make claims of a guy widely regarded as a top-5 pick as "Arguably 4th best big man in the draft" means the guy is either a genius and should be hired by an NBA Team yesterday, or is very emotional about players in this draft and likely shouldn't be engaged with in meaningful discussion regarding the draft. Food for thought.

I think the best thing the Bulls can do with the pick is use it as a cornerstone trade for Embiid or Simmons. As soon as Philly hires a new GM the Bulls need to be on the phone with a strong offer, something like #4, 2022 Unprotected 1st, Lauri and Otto for Embiid.

I am all for moving the 4th pick for a young, proven all star but that offer isn’t strong. Lauri’s next contract is looming, Otto is about to expire, and the 4th pick in a weak draft, & a mid to late 1st aren’t great cornerstones.

[MrSparkle]

Spoiler:

no wisemans height, wingspan, athleticism is at worst a top 3 pick in this draft.
its not like his jumper is broken to the point he will be limited to Whiteside/Capella.
Center position you need as much athleticism as possible to overpower your opponent like a Shaq/Howard enforcer.
Just look at our own Gafford. Him having elite athleticism is what makes him distinguishes from someone like Carter who is so slow and overweight he is getting useless. But Gafford alone is enough and Wiseman is several times better version of him with range that can extend to the 3.

Obviously, a lot will depend on which team he will get drafted to. He will be a stud if he gets taught by Dray but I still want Chicago to nab him if Edwards and Ball are gone.

I think you should be careful with engaging with people who believe they can analyze a high school player with any sort of accuracy as "GimmeDat" does. I am sure the guy knows a lot more about specific prospects than I do but if someone posting on the internet is able to make claims of a guy widely regarded as a top-5 pick as "Arguably 4th best big man in the draft" means the guy is either a genius and should be hired by an NBA Team yesterday, or is very emotional about players in this draft and likely shouldn't be engaged with in meaningful discussion regarding the draft. Food for thought.

I think the best thing the Bulls can do with the pick is use it as a cornerstone trade for Embiid or Simmons. As soon as Philly hires a new GM the Bulls need to be on the phone with a strong offer, something like #4, 2022 Unprotected 1st, Lauri and Otto for Embiid.

I am all for moving the 4th pick for a young, proven all star but that offer isn’t strong. Lauri’s next contract is looming, Otto is about to expire, and the 4th pick in a weak draft, & a mid to late 1st aren’t great cornerstones.

I was quick to draw out the Embiid proposals, but really , as I think about it....

I don't think Harris Entertainment will move either star unless Luka was offered. Their ownership is basically an investment group looking to flip the team for a profit. Yes yes, all NBA teams are... But Ballmer, Cuban, Reinsdorf, Buss, Arison... I feel like they're more personally invested in their teams than Sixers, and in general, just more knowledgeable about their basketball decisions and FO hirings.

For one thing they supported the Hinkie tank model (which I feel like no respectable basketball-loving owner would go THAT deep into a tank model, coming into 3 seasons straight with 12-man G-League rotations while trading any semblance of a starter for guys with season-injuries). But for another, they've basically just hired hot shot names (Colangelo, Brand) with poor performance and watched the ship flail.

The one thing they'll do IMO is actually overrate Simmons and Embiid to the end, while clearly disregarding what type of players would actually better compliment one and the other guy. Both are very marketable and young international stars. Embiid is a bigger-than-life personality; Simmons is an Australian with a very flashy game. Not surprised if there is just a big red "X" around any possibility of trading either guy.

[Leslie Forman]

Lauri was a 19/9 PF making 3 3s / game as a soph. He's also the only player on the team apart from Zach that teams game-plan for. Before the start of last season, him and Tatum were considered a 1a and 1b in that draft and nobody would have thought of trading him for any player short of a young star.

WCJ, for all his injuries and coach-mandated limitations on O, is still a pretty useful starter in this league, especially if he loses 10-15 pounds. Kid is a good and smart defender and just needs to stay healthy and trim to be a 14/10/2 player with decent-to-good defense.

Point/rebound slashlines for big men are completely meaningless. You put Andre Drummond on this team and he's putting up something ridiculous like 17/16.

I don't actually disagree with your larger point - this draft is awful and spending Lauri and Wendell's trade equity to move up probably isn't a good idea. But it's definitely not because they're such great players. They don't provide anything that's hard to find in today's NBA.

In fact, very, very few big men do. And it's why spending incredibly valuable capital like top-5 picks and $20mil+ cap space slots on them is usually a complete waste…and why a guy like Wiseman is probably not worth bothering with this high in the draft.

[PlayerUp]

This draft isn’t terrible, I think this draft has more freshman that need developing. There are very few polished players. The Bulls need a center and wing help.

this is just wrong. we need PG, SF, PF and C

We also need a SG and backup PG, SG, SF, PF, C. We also need a coach.

This team needs everything.

[PlayerUp]

I didn’t follow Isaac Okoro much, just saw a couple of highlights of him. He’s a very fluid athlete, can attack the basket, and seems like an all around defender. He’s not lengthy and needs to improve his shooting. Reminds me of a Jimmy Butler type.

Except Okoro offense is very limited. Can it improve at the next level? Maybe but Butler is unique in that he progressively kept adding to his offensive game and improved offensively every season after entering the NBA. 99+% of players will not do what Butler did.

[_txchilibowl_]

Spoiler:

Wiseman is about the most disappointing selection I can think of at 4. Don't fall for him being a monster athlete, that's not the end all be all. How many dominant big men are there in today's game and how do they play? Wiseman does not have the requisite IQ/feel, skill level, or instincts on either end to be a star, imo. I don't dislike him, I think he'll be a starter in this league, but he's arguably the 4th best big in the draft, imo, let alone the 4th best player.

no wisemans height, wingspan, athleticism is at worst a top 3 pick in this draft.
its not like his jumper is broken to the point he will be limited to Whiteside/Capella.
Center position you need as much athleticism as possible to overpower your opponent like a Shaq/Howard enforcer.
Just look at our own Gafford. Him having elite athleticism is what makes him distinguishes from someone like Carter who is so slow and overweight he is getting useless. But Gafford alone is enough and Wiseman is several times better version of him with range that can extend to the 3.

Obviously, a lot will depend on which team he will get drafted to. He will be a stud if he gets taught by Dray but I still want Chicago to nab him if Edwards and Ball are gone.

I think you should be careful with engaging with people who believe they can analyze a high school player with any sort of accuracy as "GimmeDat" does. I am sure the guy knows a lot more about specific prospects than I do but if someone posting on the internet is able to make claims of a guy widely regarded as a top-5 pick as "Arguably 4th best big man in the draft" means the guy is either a genius and should be hired by an NBA Team yesterday, or is very emotional about players in this draft and likely shouldn't be engaged with in meaningful discussion regarding the draft. Food for thought.

I think the best thing the Bulls can do with the pick is use it as a cornerstone trade for Embiid or Simmons. As soon as Philly hires a new GM the Bulls need to be on the phone with a strong offer, something like #4, 2022 Unprotected 1st, Lauri and Otto for Embiid.

If GimmeDat is saying it I'm listening closely. He's been one of the best draft evaluators we've had on this board for a while....

[coldfish]

Trade up for Edwards or trade out of the pick. Wendell + #4 for #1. Who says no?