Thoughts on aggressive pursuit of Fred Van Vleet & Joe Harris/Davis Bertans

[Oscirus]

Another underrated thing about FVV is that if he does come here he's coming from a winner, he's not going to put up with bull. It'll be similar to what happened when chandler first got here

[Nazrmohamed]

Spoiler:

The model was fine. We just executed it with very sh*tty players.

Doing it with good players that actually fit on the court together will yield better results.

I'll give you a thumbs up on that because I agree that other vets would've yielded better results but I'll explain what I meant.

You're a FA who wasn't the Knicjs first choice cause nobody significant wants to come to the Knicks. They put you on a 1 to 2 yr deal. On your first day you look around and realize you're surrounded by rookies and sophomores that you know you're more talented than.
How do you proceed? And remember its a one yr deal which means you probably have something to prove.

You know what you'd do, you'd ball out. Screw leadership, you gotta get paid. Screw fitting in, them rooks can fit in with you. Youre more talented than them. You should be the alpha dog.

And that's what happens over and over again with these short term deals. And you said better players. That only doubles down on what I just said. I agree better but better to me is defined as role players who play the right way and want to guide, teach, compliment.

Now if you wanna say F the whole thing and go get your next franchise star thats one thing. I still wanna build through the draft but in a way I'd rather forget the whole thing and grab an actual star than this tier 3 player who fiegns being a star because of his 1yr deal on a bad team. Either go all the way or just continue playing and developing youth. But to watch this treadmill of failed near stars attempt to fix thier image ain't helping our record or our team development.

You tell me. Who do you have in mind and I'll tell you how I feel. But even some of the role players turn into iso artists. I like Marcus Morris and thought he tried to bring some leadership in the toughness dept at first,. After 3 weeks he looked like Melo-lite.

FVV, Gallo/Bertans, DJ Augustin, Joe Harris, etc...

These guys who actually fit with our young players, and provide spacing, and playmaking.

I don't even think we need to give these guys 1 yr deals or bust. I think if we can get them on movable contracts, then you do it. I also think someone like FVV may even be worth investing in for a longer term. He's only 26, is a very good defender, and shoots ~40% from 3 on high volume. He's not ball dominant, and would definitely allow RJ, and even someone like Frank, to take more responsibility as a ballhandler.

Players like that you can scheme with and build a cohesive roster. Everyone looks better in that environment and the game becomes easier for our developing players.

I personally think tanking as a strategy is a pretty low value proposition at this point. Teams that win more like the Grizzlies, Pelicans, Bulls and Hornets are getting rewarded as much, if not more, than the teams who throw their season away. So let's build a cohesive roster, pump the value on some players, and build towards a winning product. A winning product means more of an asset base to work with.

Then I approve Lol. But like you said, I might give some longer contracts that build continuity. Cuz thats another part of it too. You can't improve when everybody is in a contract yr. Im not totally in love with each player on your list but yes, those are the TYPES of players I'd want. I like FVV alot. Joe Harris allot. The other 2 less but I'll add somebody.....Christian Wood.

[Nazrmohamed]

We should absolutely be pursuing those players on the shortest deals they would accept.

They will elevate the team and will be tradeable if needed.

Shooting is hard to find, but it makes everything easier in terms of roster construction.

FVV is also a worthwhile talent on his own.

That's exactly the model we took this yr, and the yr before.

it's different going for need vs a plethora of PFs

Thats for damn sure

[NoLayupRule]

hes not leaving Tor IMO and they wont let him leave

but I guess we can run the price up at least

[Orange Mamba]

FVV is a worthwhile gamble IMO. He has a game built to succeed in the modern NBA, he's a good defender, and he would complement our young players well.

Adding FVV and someone like Vassell to our lineup this offseason would be a nice infusion of 3pt shooting and defense

[Strick]

FVV / Vassell / RJ / Stretch 4 / Mitch is not a bad lineup. That would be a much improved team and the spacing for RJ would be light years better than last year

[thebuzzardman]

per shams

Toronto Raptors

Raptors championship guard Fred VanVleet is on fire to start the NBA’s Bubble Playoffs: 21.3 points, 7.8 assists and four rebounds per game in the Raptors‘ series sweep over Brooklyn.

VanVleet is a shoe free agent and has multiple suitors for a new deal, sources say. And on the court, expect a strong market for the free-agent-to-be: Detroit, New York and Phoenix are expected to emerge as suitors for VanVleet outside Toronto, sources said.

For the semi old timers:

[god shammgod]

25 to 30 a year ? these are the type of contracts that kill you. my god.

[thebuzzardman]

So, Phoenix wants FVV as part of a 3 guard rotation or are hedging against Rubio's departure (or is it Booker)

[sol537]

FVV is a worthwhile gamble IMO. He has a game built to succeed in the modern NBA, he's a good defender, and he would complement our young players well.

Adding FVV and someone like Vassell to our lineup this offseason would be a nice infusion of 3pt shooting and defense

Add Jerami Grant to that mix and now you're starting to cook...

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Another underrated thing about FVV is that if he does come here he's coming from a winner, he's not going to put up with bull. It'll be similar to what happened when chandler first got here

Also, he's an excellent defender, he often gives up half a foot or more to the people he's guarding.

[NY 567]

We're going to likely have to throw the max or something close to it to get FVV. This is going to be a disaster.

[Scalabrine]

I'm all for pursuing those guys but I don't want to sign any long term deals to anyone this offseason unless they are a legit All-Star level player. Pretty much AD or Brandon Ingram.

[Jeff Van Gully]

love fred, and he deserves the bread. i just can't max him for 4 years with a clear conscience. and i think he deserves more than a randle deal, which i would be comfortable giving him.

toronto will pay him and retain him.

hypothetically...

...if FVV wanted to come here on a Randle-type deal (and the raptors stupidly don't offer him something like that), you'd have to be a moronic Knicks fan to not love that idea.

dude. sign me up. i'd even be fine with the full 4 years at a randle price point.

4/$80m? no question.

[Jeff Van Gully]

We're going to likely have to throw the max or something close to it to get FVV. This is going to be a disaster.

gotta cap it at like $20m starting salary. can't give this man $30m+.

[spree8]

$20M/year is the most I would give him. That’s basically what Brogdon gets paid and I don’t think he’s as good as Brogdon. Anything more than $20M, Knicks should back off imo.

I mean he’s averaging 17 on 41%, 55% TS I’m not sure what that equates in terms of value but I would not go for a guy like FVV if I’m 4-5 pieces away. Add in the “playing for the Knicks” fee and you’re looking at a bad contract.

Yea I’m totally against signing him because of his price tag. Not sure how much the cap is gunna get lowered with everything going on, but 20 mil is still too much.

$20M in a dipped cap year is pretty fair, and should be tradeable when the cap goes back up.

I think that's his number. TO probably matches it, so this is all moot, but if the Knicks can get him at that price, he's worth it.

It’s fair, but it’s too rich for us imo. Rather build the rest of the team up first before committing 1/5th of the cap to FVV, who really isn’t going to be a big difference maker for us. We need to save money for the star players, if we ever get lucky enough to really be in the mix for one.

[Jeff Van Gully]

hes not leaving Tor IMO and they wont let him leave

but I guess we can run the price up at least

can't play that game. gotta be ready for toronto to let you pay. also gotta set a limit in a bidding war.

[NY 567]

We're going to likely have to throw the max or something close to it to get FVV. This is going to be a disaster.

gotta cap it at like $20m starting salary. can't give this man $30m+.

The Raptors will match 20m. We're either not going to get him or we're going to comically overpay to get him like we did with Hardaway Jr

[Jeff Van Gully]

$20M/year is the most I would give him. That’s basically what Brogdon gets paid and I don’t think he’s as good as Brogdon. Anything more than $20M, Knicks should back off imo.

Yea I’m totally against signing him because of his price tag. Not sure how much the cap is gunna get lowered with everything going on, but 20 mil is still too much.

$20M in a dipped cap year is pretty fair, and should be tradeable when the cap goes back up.

I think that's his number. TO probably matches it, so this is all moot, but if the Knicks can get him at that price, he's worth it.

It’s fair, but it’s too rich for us imo. Rather build the rest of the team up first before committing 1/5th of the cap to FVV, who really isn’t going to be a big difference maker for us. We need to save money for the star players, if we ever get lucky enough to really be in the mix for one.

$20m is significantly closer to 1/6 of a $115m cap than 1/5.

[Jeff Van Gully]

We're going to likely have to throw the max or something close to it to get FVV. This is going to be a disaster.

gotta cap it at like $20m starting salary. can't give this man $30m+.

The Raptors will match 20m. We're either not going to get him or we're going to comically overpay to get him like we did with Hardaway Jr

i didn't want to invoke the name of THJ. but at least in FVV, the player is worthy. in THJ we were hoping he might be at some point. ironically, dallas is getting the best of him at the end of the deal.

i agree that i expect them to match $20m. i'm also not sure he is going to accept that dollar amount from anyone. wouldn't be shocked if someone started him north of $25m.