2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th!

[cjbulls]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2020-lamelo-ball-taken-by-timberwolves-at-no-1-after-they-win-nba-draft-lottery/

There are a lot of mock drafts floating around with Edwards falling a little. IMO, if there is even a chance the Bulls could get him, they really should. He is raw and has some attitude questions but he is pretty much the only guy who really jumps out on tape to me. Really long arms, physical, athletic, good shooting form. He would be a multi year project but has the highest upside in the draft, IMO.

I'm not worried at all about positions. By the time Edwards would be truly ready, most of the roster is going to be turned over.

I have no strong opinion on Edwards right now, but how can you not be worried about positions?

You can’t have a bunch of young ball dominant scorers on one roster and expect them to develop. They’ll get in each other’s way and the other players will never get a respite from all the developing hero ball. At best, it’ll turn into a your turn-my turn scenario which is just bad basketball.

I’m all for BPA in this draft and don’t mind doubling up at a position (just as an example, Toppin when you have Lauri), but there is an exception for “ball dominant guards”. If they end up with Edwards they must move on from one of the other two or they’re asking for a scenario that kills the development of all 3, and Lauri, and WCJ and whoever else you want to throw in.

IMO there is enough minutes available for a player taken at any position. Look at Edwards. He could play next to Lavine or Coby or Sato at the 2 and any combination of them at the 3.

Part of the development is teaching guys to share the ball and move off of it. If the coach is letting one guy pound the ball for 20 seconds each possession, that's a coaching problem that is going to create issues regardless of who you draft.

I never meant it as a minutes issue, but you’re drafting guys because of their most optimal skill set. Zach, Coby and Edwards all have a similar skill set.

If the players develop in a way to hit that mark, they need to focus on what they’re good at, what their exceptional nba skill is, in this case generating offense.

They should focus on scoring, not being a distributor or playing off ball. So that naturally limits the amount of minutes you can provide for that role. You can’t have too many ball dominant scorers on the court at any one time, especially if they’re young and inefficient. It can ruin the team and development if every player.

They’ve been trying to teach Zach to be a PG since he’s been drafted. Has that worked much at all? Largely, he learned to be a scorer first and then in the last couple of years shifted his focus on being a better distributor, to mixed success.

If Edwards is clear BPA then great. But you need to clear out Zach or Coby to save the team before next season starts.

[Dresden]

Seems Ricky O’Donnell is very high on LaMelo and Hayes (while admitting the draft is bad). Low on Deni. FWIW he was high on UCLA Lonzo and Fultz. I guess a lot of people were.

Look at his recent mock drafts from 2018 and 2019. Ricky seems to do a better job than most at predicting draft talent. 2017 he was way off.

In other words, he got lucky in 18 and 19. You need more than a 2-3 year sample to be able to say whether someone is good at the draft or not.

[Dresden]

Starting to think the thing to do might be take Toppin at 4 and see if anyone wants out of a mid-1st to grab Haliburton. We should be greedy like that.

If he's still there at 4. No on Haliburton. No upside. I'd rather run Coby

How is there no upside on a 6'5" pg with an excellent assist:TO ratio, solid shooting from 3 pt and on FT's, good defender getting over 2.5 steals per game, who is a very good passer? Ok, he's not going to be Ja Morant, but he could be a very solid player, which is plenty good in this draft at #4.

[MrSparkle]

Watch on YouTube

Seems Ricky O’Donnell is very high on LaMelo and Hayes (while admitting the draft is bad). Low on Deni. FWIW he was high on UCLA Lonzo and Fultz. I guess a lot of people were.

Ok - I get the emphasis on needing a gifted playmaker, and both those guy’s size is appealing.

I know we talk about “need vs bpa”, but if you can handle the ball like Simmons or Rubio, doesn’t matter if you become the butt of everyone’s shooting joke like Ben or become a journeyman like Rubio... fact is both still provide a lot for their teams.

I’m not principally against Hayes or Ball, I just don’t see “it.” But glad to be wrong if insider’s have a better scoop.

My main fear with LaMelo is literally nobody likes playing with him and he’s as much of a burned #2 as Lonzo in LA. Between Okoro, Deni, Okongwu — there is talent that will likely make you regret it.

Is this your concern, or are you saying this has been an actual issue for him?

Ball seems so confusing for me. I’m starting to think I’d rather they just trade for Lonzo at this point since his value is so low and he at least plays defense. You could probably get him for Hutch or something.

Ha well I’m just speculating based on observation. I don’t mean it as some kind of concrete evidence, though the Lithuanian team clearly didn’t embrace him (and vice versa).

I mean, a very confident 19yo, already a multi-millionaire from all the Ball family hype, with a rather paved and hyped teenage career who dominates possession, doesn’t score/space, and isn’t known for high effort on defense. Just seems like a tough recipe for fellow NBAers to get behind, unless the dude really is a transcendental NBA talent. Nobody wasted any time going for Lonzo’s throat when he came into the league. And LaMelo’s got a more arrogant swag going on - Lonzo for all his dad’s loud talking seems like a really well-mannered and quiet guy with a good work ethic.

But hey, if he backs it up and is actually scoring and assisting on demand, then I take it all back.

[cjbulls]

Starting to think the thing to do might be take Toppin at 4 and see if anyone wants out of a mid-1st to grab Haliburton. We should be greedy like that.

If he's still there at 4. No on Haliburton. No upside. I'd rather run Coby

How is there no upside on a 6'5" pg with an excellent assist:TO ratio, solid shooting from 3 pt and on FT's, good defender getting over 2.5 steals per game, who is a very good passer? Ok, he's not going to be Ja Morant, but he could be a very solid player, which is plenty good in this draft at #4.

There is a concern about just drafting role players when you don’t have a star. It seems pretty clear no one on the current roster is a true star (top 5 type player). So by drafting role guys are you setting yourself up to be a middling team that is forced to rebuild again in a few years, or worse overpay all your young guys and get stuck with a middling team.

[PlayerUp]

Seems Ricky O’Donnell is very high on LaMelo and Hayes (while admitting the draft is bad). Low on Deni. FWIW he was high on UCLA Lonzo and Fultz. I guess a lot of people were.

Look at his recent mock drafts from 2018 and 2019. Ricky seems to do a better job than most at predicting draft talent. 2017 he was way off.

In other words, he got lucky in 18 and 19. You need more than a 2-3 year sample to be able to say whether someone is good at the draft or not.

With all this bleachreport and nbadraft.net garbage, guys like Ricky slightly standout though with their predictions. I follow around 6-8 draft talent predictors. He is one of them.

[PlayerUp]

How is there no upside on a 6'5" pg with an excellent assist:TO ratio, solid shooting from 3 pt and on FT's, good defender getting over 2.5 steals per game, who is a very good passer? Ok, he's not going to be Ja Morant, but he could be a very solid player, which is plenty good in this draft at #4.

Worth noting here that the Bulls desperately need a Point Guard.

2021 Draft as of now unless things change is not looking like a Point Guard draft. Of course things could change but if we're torn on which prospect to take then maybe should consider positional need as well.

[PlayerUp]

1. Edwards
2. Ball
3. Toppin
4. Nesmith
5. Okongwu
6. Wiseman

This is my updated board. Haven't seen anyone worth drafting at 4 outside of these 6. Have serious questions about most of them, especially Wiseman

Toppin should also not be ruled out here. If the Bulls think they can somewhat fix key areas of his defense and turn him into a consistent quality shooter, shouldn't rule him out. As Ricky pointed out in his podcast, defenses were setup to specifically swarm and stop Obi all season and they still couldn't do it. Obi just dominated NCAA basketball and the advanced stats show it.

For me if his predraft workouts are a success and the Bulls feel confident they can vastly improve his game, I'm perfectly fine with Toppin at #4.

[Chicagoat]

I would not say Haliburton has a role player ceilings. He has some nice tools and most of his weakness can be worked on by bulking up.

It all depends on his mentality and the way he views the game. So interview can make it or break it with him.

[Fastbrk4brkfast]

Starting to think the thing to do might be take Toppin at 4 and see if anyone wants out of a mid-1st to grab Haliburton. We should be greedy like that.

If he's still there at 4. No on Haliburton. No upside. I'd rather run Coby

Be greedy. I want em all. I want AK playing Pokemon out here.

[Dresden]

If he's still there at 4. No on Haliburton. No upside. I'd rather run Coby

How is there no upside on a 6'5" pg with an excellent assist:TO ratio, solid shooting from 3 pt and on FT's, good defender getting over 2.5 steals per game, who is a very good passer? Ok, he's not going to be Ja Morant, but he could be a very solid player, which is plenty good in this draft at #4.

There is a concern about just drafting role players when you don’t have a star. It seems pretty clear no one on the current roster is a true star (top 5 type player). So by drafting role guys are you setting yourself up to be a middling team that is forced to rebuild again in a few years, or worse overpay all your young guys and get stuck with a middling team.

I'd rather draft an effective player, even if he'll never be an all-star, than draft a guy who might be a bust. Shai GA has been a huge asset for OKC, and I see Halliburton as a similar type player.

[cjbulls]

How is there no upside on a 6'5" pg with an excellent assist:TO ratio, solid shooting from 3 pt and on FT's, good defender getting over 2.5 steals per game, who is a very good passer? Ok, he's not going to be Ja Morant, but he could be a very solid player, which is plenty good in this draft at #4.

There is a concern about just drafting role players when you don’t have a star. It seems pretty clear no one on the current roster is a true star (top 5 type player). So by drafting role guys are you setting yourself up to be a middling team that is forced to rebuild again in a few years, or worse overpay all your young guys and get stuck with a middling team.

I'd rather draft an effective player, even if he'll never be an all-star, than draft a guy who might be a bust. Shai GA has been a huge asset for OKC, and I see Halliburton as a similar type player.

So you’d rather draft SGA than Giannis?

Look I get that it’s all a balance of floor vs. ceiling, but balancing those two can change depending on your roster. The Bulls still don’t have a star. If you added a role player right now it would help them win some games but they aren’t winning a championship, possibly even a first round playoff series.

And to be fair, SGA was considered more of a high upside player than a role player at his draft. A better example would be Mikal Bridges or Doug McDermott.

Someone else compared Hali to George Hill and that is not a bad comp. Would you be happy with that?

[PaKii94]

There is a concern about just drafting role players when you don’t have a star. It seems pretty clear no one on the current roster is a true star (top 5 type player). So by drafting role guys are you setting yourself up to be a middling team that is forced to rebuild again in a few years, or worse overpay all your young guys and get stuck with a middling team.

I'd rather draft an effective player, even if he'll never be an all-star, than draft a guy who might be a bust. Shai GA has been a huge asset for OKC, and I see Halliburton as a similar type player.

So you’d rather draft SGA than Giannis?

Look I get that it’s all a balance of floor vs. ceiling, but balancing those two can change depending on your roster. The Bulls still don’t have a star. If you added a role player right now it would help them win some games but they aren’t winning a championship, possibly even a first round playoff series.

And to be fair, SGA was considered more of a high upside player than a role player at his draft. A better example would be Mikal Bridges or Doug McDermott.

Someone else compared Hali to George Hill and that is not a bad comp. Would you be happy with that?

Uhhh who's the Giannis in this draft

[Ugly Duckling]

Starting to think the thing to do might be take Toppin at 4 and see if anyone wants out of a mid-1st to grab Haliburton. We should be greedy like that.

If he's still there at 4. No on Haliburton. No upside. I'd rather run Coby

How is there no upside on a 6'5" pg with an excellent assist:TO ratio, solid shooting from 3 pt and on FT's, good defender getting over 2.5 steals per game, who is a very good passer? Ok, he's not going to be Ja Morant, but he could be a very solid player, which is plenty good in this draft at #4.

I totally agree with you that he should be a starting caliber PG, which is nothing to scoff at. But I don't see him being able to compete with the best of them (think 4th tier). He looks fairly solid across the board, without being exceptional at anything. You look for speed, handles, vision and athleticism from a modern floor general. Haliburton's not elite in any of those areas. At 4 I'm drafting for upside or trading the pick. We've played it safe long enough. Go big or go home, as they say

[TheSuzerain]

There is a concern about just drafting role players when you don’t have a star. It seems pretty clear no one on the current roster is a true star (top 5 type player). So by drafting role guys are you setting yourself up to be a middling team that is forced to rebuild again in a few years, or worse overpay all your young guys and get stuck with a middling team.

I'd rather draft an effective player, even if he'll never be an all-star, than draft a guy who might be a bust. Shai GA has been a huge asset for OKC, and I see Halliburton as a similar type player.

So you’d rather draft SGA than Giannis?

Look I get that it’s all a balance of floor vs. ceiling, but balancing those two can change depending on your roster. The Bulls still don’t have a star. If you added a role player right now it would help them win some games but they aren’t winning a championship, possibly even a first round playoff series.

And to be fair, SGA was considered more of a high upside player than a role player at his draft. A better example would be Mikal Bridges or Doug McDermott.

Someone else compared Hali to George Hill and that is not a bad comp. Would you be happy with that?

Calling SGA a known high upside prospect is revisionist history at it's finest. He went 11th in his draft.

I have no idea why you think sophomore Haliburton (who showed huge growth between his fresh - soph years) is comparable to college seniors.

[Ugly Duckling]

1. Edwards
2. Ball
3. Toppin
4. Nesmith
5. Okongwu
6. Wiseman

This is my updated board. Haven't seen anyone worth drafting at 4 outside of these 6. Have serious questions about most of them, especially Wiseman

Toppin should also not be ruled out here. If the Bulls think they can somewhat fix key areas of his defense and turn him into a consistent quality shooter, shouldn't rule him out. As Ricky pointed out in his podcast, defenses were setup to specifically swarm and stop Obi all season and they still couldn't do it. Obi just dominated NCAA basketball and the advanced stats show it.

For me if his predraft workouts are a success and the Bulls feel confident they can vastly improve his game, I'm perfectly fine with Toppin at #4.

100%. This makes me even more bullish on Obie-wan. I just hope he's still on the board at 4

[TheSuzerain]

If you want Obi, how can you not prefer Okongwu?

Similarly dominant offensively in the paint at the NCAA level. Maybe not as explosive athletically, but still pretty solid there.

And defensively it's no contest.

[Ugly Duckling]

Starting to think the thing to do might be take Toppin at 4 and see if anyone wants out of a mid-1st to grab Haliburton. We should be greedy like that.

If he's still there at 4. No on Haliburton. No upside. I'd rather run Coby

Be greedy. I want em all. I want AK playing Pokemon out here.

Haha I totally agree with with making multiple moves and I like his game. It's pretty clear that it'll translate to the next level. It just that he looks ordinary and I really want an electric PG. Someone with the speed of Accelgor, who's also an elite athlete, creates his own shot and has extraordinary vision. We deserve a floor general like that after all we've been through

[Ugly Duckling]

If you want Obi, how can you not prefer Okongwu?

Similarly dominant offensively in the paint at the NCAA level. Maybe not as explosive athletically, but still pretty solid there.

And defensively it's no contest.

I want a somewhat balanced roster in which everyone has at least some range. That'll keep the floor spread out and defenses honest. He looks to be a monster defensively though

[Leslie Forman]

Uhhh who's the Giannis in this draft

Pokusevski.

Unfortunately, he may also be the Tskitishvili of this draft.