NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs

[League Circles]

Whata about cops driving past a guy in civil clothes with a gun as tall as him?

And not arresting him until 24 hours later?

What do you mean what about it? What about it? What about that separate incident, whatever it is you're referring to?

You continue to evade the important, difficult, pertinent question I'm posing.

I am not seeing your question. How can I evade it if I dont see it?

I see rhetoric.

My questions are punctuated with question marks in the typical fashion. You started talking about some other vague thing.

[musiqsoulchild]

If we cant agree on what the beginning and the ending point of systemic oppression is...then we will be in an endless argument.

We never discussed this. Neither of us said where we said the beginning was, so how do you know we don't agree?

I see it plain as daylight.

Well as long as you see it, then it is fact. If someone else sees it differently they are automatically wrong. Oh wait, if everyone acted that way, then that would be a paradox wouldn't it? That's why discourse exists, because when people state things that are often wrong they can learn from other peoples view and perspective.

Cops have always been hotheaded and acted above the law.

What if I started my response with "Indian people have always been <insert negative stereotype here>? Glad you are willing to discriminate widely against a massive group of people based on the actions of a minority, but that seems like a very ironic stance to take while arguing for equal rights of people.

Is there a system problem with police treatment of minorities (in particular black minorites?). I would there probably is, but if you actually look at the studies done on the topic (by a black harvard professor) then it really isn't nearly so clear as you think. The causes and outcomes aren't as clear as people make them out to be, and we'll struggle to get real information, because people don't want real information. They want a witch hunt right now.

Its only now that the slaves have representation that they are being called out. And its starting to piss them off.

Completely untrue.

1: There are no slaves. Stating things which are complete lies removes any credibility from these statements.
2: The civil rights movement has likely been going on since before the slaves were freed (with the first step being to free them). Things have gotten gradually better from a rights perspective since then. Does it mean our work is done? No, obviously not. However, this isn't some new thing that people just noticed and for the first time ever someone is trying to improve the situation of African Americans.
3: I'm not black and can't understand how real the issue of systemic power abuse by the police is. However, from a million feet out, I can't imagine that it is remotely comparable to the massive economic and power imbalance that African Americans have and think that's actually a much more important issue. I would think the standard of living among African Americans was the same as whites on a percentile basis across the board that a ton of these issues would disappear nearly immediately and that we're fighting the wrong battle.

Doug, let's take a step back together.

Define the problem for me...the way you see it. Where does it begin. And what is the end goal.

And cops are not equivalent to a racial stereotype. The issue with Cops is that they abuse power and cut corners and take short cuts.

How many times have you seen a cop who puts on a siren just to get ahead in traffic?

[Shill]

Now if it was a car full of White women do you think the police would’ve acted that way?

Women, probably not. Men, very possible.

There are sh*tty cops out there. You can find countless incidents of white guys getting shot by the cops in eerily similar circumstances to the high-profile cases that get publicized.

[musiqsoulchild]

What do you mean what about it? What about it? What about that separate incident, whatever it is you're referring to?

You continue to evade the important, difficult, pertinent question I'm posing.

I am not seeing your question. How can I evade it if I dont see it?

I see rhetoric.

My questions are punctuated with question marks in the typical fashion. You started talking about some other vague thing.

You said I am evading this one singular most important, most difficult question.

What is this question?

And the issue I raised is most definitely connected to the events of poor policing in Kenosha. A young man with a BIG gun just shot 3 protesters. And cops just drive past him. And he is arrested 24 hours later.

Yup..he was "affiliated" with cops.

Its paints the picture of complete and utter incompetence by police departments in that area.

[Jcool0]

Read on Twitter

[MrSparkle]

Well, I respect a player’s choice to not finish out this season - There is a systematic problem and reason for this. But I do genuinely ask, does not playing at all make the NBA’s players’ powerful voices more heard or more silent? IMO as a listener, the latter.

It's most definitely the former.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

Today? Yes.

But who's been thinking about Kyrie's voice? The guy who was most vocal about canning the season as a form of protest. He's been out of sight and mind. Just providing an example.

People have A.D.D. unfortunately. It's the age of social media. IMO if they cancel the season, the NBA becomes an after-thought in 2 weeks. Back to watching more Trump news and less Black Lives Matters logos.

[League Circles]

It’s funny on this board. I love white people but I don’t think some people will ever understand the problems blacks have to face when it comes to dealing with the police unless you are close to the situation. The problem on these boards is that people look at stats to much not knowing that everything thing the police do are not documented especially in poor inner city communities. To tell you the truth most of all my black friends I know have been either roughed up by the police or had a gun stuck in their face. Absolutely none of my friends have a criminal record and all of them are professionals. Hell most of them don’t even drink or smoke. I’ve seen some white people say they are tired of all of the protesting, well that’s to bad because black people have been tired of being the target to racist, scared cops.

Worth noting there is no so-called black experience or white experience. Of course people share things in common but if you think that every black person has been feels they have been systematically oppressed by the police you're just factually incorrect. Youre also very much incorrect to think that that doesn't happen to white people sometimes. Especially young white males. I know I've been unfairly treated by the cops and so have a number of my friends, blacks and white. 4 of my closer friends got into a big serious fight in HS. The one white guy got a felony charge he's been hassled with his whole life. The black guy and the two hispanics got off.

Check out perspectives from some of my favorite intellectuals Glenn Loury and John McWhorter. As well as Colion Noir, Lil Wayne, etc.

I'm not suggesting in any way that everything is fine for black folks and that incredibly harmful racism by police hasn't been an enormous problem. But it's helpful to give scope and scale and to know that it's not all fine and dandy for whites with cops either.

[HomoSapien]

2. I would love for someone to explain how you could watch that video and come away with the conclusion that shooting Jacob Blake in the back seven times was the only way to stop him from slowly walking to his car.

Easy. First of all they didn't need to stop him from slowly walking to his car and in fact did not do so. They stopped him from reaching into his car. We have no idea if they had a valid reason to use lethal force or not because we don't have very much evidence. if he was threatening to kill people whether it was his own children or the police officers or some of the people around who included a woman who called the police on him who was quite possibly a woman that he was wanted for felony sexual assault and domestic abuse of, then it appears what transpired in that scenario was that they gave him until the absolute last possible second. They physically struggled with him on the other side of the vehicle they tried to tase him they pointed their guns at him and told him to stop he didn't stop he reached into the car and at the very last moment they use lethal Force to stop him. The reason they don't just run and tackle him is because that's almost certainly against training as it is just a very stupid. You do not get on the ground with your gun with a violent person who very well may take it away from you and use it on you. That person gives up their rights when they evade arrest which he was doing for an absolute fact. now of course there is the equally plausible scenario where he just said something along the lines of man you guys have no reason to stop me I'm getting out of here. If he said something like that then it appears the shooting was very much unjustified. we don't know and that's just a simple matter of fact. If you think it's important to round up or round down instead of waiting until we know more that's your prerogative. But it's just logically false to pretend like we know what happened.

Explain to me why 7 bullets to the back were needed to detain him? Is Jacob Blake Wolverine? Was he healing so quickly that the bullets were popping out of his body? Was he still moving slownly towards his car after 1 bullet? After 2? 3? 4? 5? 6?

Why didn’t they just tase or pepper spray him if he was resisting an arrest?

[League Circles]

I am not seeing your question. How can I evade it if I dont see it?

I see rhetoric.

My questions are punctuated with question marks in the typical fashion. You started talking about some other vague thing.

You said I am evading this one singular most important, most difficult question.

What is this question?

And the issue I raised is most definitely connected to the events of poor policing in Kenosha. A young man with a BIG gun just shot 3 protesters. And cops just drive past him. And he is arrested 24 hours later.

Yup..he was "affiliated" with cops.

Its paints the picture of complete and utter incompetence by police departments in that area.

You know how to read my questions. They are clear. you can pick the first one and answer that or pick any of them and answer that. You chose to pick none of them and bring up a completely separate incident.

I'm not in the middle of assessing the Kenosha Police department. I'm in the middle of discussing the Jacob Blake case. your problem is that you're viewing this is a picture or a story or a movie instead of a court case with precise details that matter.

[musiqsoulchild]

It’s funny on this board. I love white people but I don’t think some people will ever understand the problems blacks have to face when it comes to dealing with the police unless you are close to the situation. The problem on these boards is that people look at stats to much not knowing that everything thing the police do are not documented especially in poor inner city communities. To tell you the truth most of all my black friends I know have been either roughed up by the police or had a gun stuck in their face. Absolutely none of my friends have a criminal record and all of them are professionals. Hell most of them don’t even drink or smoke. I’ve seen some white people say they are tired of all of the protesting, well that’s to bad because black people have been tired of being the target to racist, scared cops.

Worth noting there is no so-called black experience or white experience. Of course people share things in common but if you think that every black person has been feels they have been systematically oppressed by the police you're just factually incorrect. Youre also very much incorrect to think that that doesn't happen to white people sometimes. Especially young white males. I know I've been unfairly treated by the cops and so have a number of my friends, blacks and white. 4 of my closer friends got into a big serious fight in HS. The one white guy got a felony charge he's been hassled with his whole life. The black guy and the two hispanics got off.

Check out perspectives from some of my favorite intellectuals Glenn Loury and John McWhorter. As well as Colion Noir, Lil Wayne, etc.

I'm not suggesting in any way that everything is fine for black folks and that incredibly harmful racism by police hasn't been an enormous problem. But it's helpful to give scope and scale and to know that it's not all fine and dandy for whites with cops either.

Use percentages to quantify...otherwise it looms like you are talking on both sides.

Not actual facts...just a percentage look inside your thought process.

For example:

I believe 10 percent of Cops are racist. And that the Black experience of racism is over-indexing by x percent.

[wonderboy2]

2. I would love for someone to explain how you could watch that video and come away with the conclusion that shooting Jacob Blake in the back seven times was the only way to stop him from slowly walking to his car.

Easy. First of all they didn't need to stop him from slowly walking to his car and in fact did not do so. They stopped him from reaching into his car. We have no idea if they had a valid reason to use lethal force or not because we don't have very much evidence. if he was threatening to kill people whether it was his own children or the police officers or some of the people around who included a woman who called the police on him who was quite possibly a woman that he was wanted for felony sexual assault and domestic abuse of, then it appears what transpired in that scenario was that they gave him until the absolute last possible second. They physically struggled with him on the other side of the vehicle they tried to tase him they pointed their guns at him and told him to stop he didn't stop he reached into the car and at the very last moment they use lethal Force to stop him. The reason they don't just run and tackle him is because that's almost certainly against training as it is just a very stupid. You do not get on the ground with your gun with a violent person who very well may take it away from you and use it on you. That person gives up their rights when they evade arrest which he was doing for an absolute fact. now of course there is the equally plausible scenario where he just said something along the lines of man you guys have no reason to stop me I'm getting out of here. If he said something like that then it appears the shooting was very much unjustified. we don't know and that's just a simple matter of fact. If you think it's important to round up or round down instead of waiting until we know more that's your prerogative. But it's just logically false to pretend like we know what happened.

League of Circles I worked as a POC firefighter/EMT for 4 years. I’ve seen plenty of altercations of fights and scuffles between the police and Civilians. While we don’t know the whole story. You can tell by the people’s reaction that they felt he shouldn’t have been shot in the back. Also there are 4-5 police officers on the scene. That’s the perfect scenario for the police because you need 4-5 cops to successfully restrain a VIOLENT subject. The police are trained for each of them to grab a limb while the other cop is talking to the subject either telling him what’s happening or talking him down and trying to reason with the person. Now does it always work out smoothly? Hell no. But I have seen cops tackle guys or slam guys onto the ground and make arrest. I’ve seen cops on the ground wrestling with subjects, pinning them down without killing the person. Looking at that video the cop was in position to do a takedown or grab the guy before entering the car but was to scared to do so. Like I’ve said before the guy only looked about 150 pounds and if 3-5 cops can’t handle that situation without shooting a guy 7 times in the back then that’s a problem. Working on the ambulance my crew had to subdue much Bigger, aggressive guys than that and we did so without even having to pull out guns.

[musiqsoulchild]

My questions are punctuated with question marks in the typical fashion. You started talking about some other vague thing.

You said I am evading this one singular most important, most difficult question.

What is this question?

And the issue I raised is most definitely connected to the events of poor policing in Kenosha. A young man with a BIG gun just shot 3 protesters. And cops just drive past him. And he is arrested 24 hours later.

Yup..he was "affiliated" with cops.

Its paints the picture of complete and utter incompetence by police departments in that area.

You know how to read my questions. They are clear. you can pick the first one and answer that or pick any of them and answer that. You chose to pick none of them and bring up a completely separate incident.

I'm not in the middle of assessing the Kenosha Police department. I'm in the middle of discussing the Jacob Blake case. your problem is that you're viewing this is a picture or a story or a movie instead of a court case with precise details that matter.

Stop with the back and forth. Do you have an argument or are you just looking to type more words.

You had several rhetorical questions starting with " Are you serious?????".

Tell me which question is the most vital one as you claim and I will engage.

[Portiseyes]

We've seen this story a thousand times. Enough's enough.

There are some really severe problems with your view:
1: Many people are advocating for guilty until proven innocent
2: People are unwilling to participate in even reasonable discourse and calling people racist who attempt reasonable discourse
3: People are using these incidents as excuses to commit massive amounts of crime against further innocents

I would not be surprised to see a strong backlash coming on the movement. I would count myself as generally extremely liberal, and the above things really bother me. There are aspects of this movement that have become a witch hunt. Facts are thrown out the window. Due process is thrown out the window. Crime is actively encouraged by some movement leaders. The many good police are punished for the actions of a few. Anyone who points out anything contrary to the movement is immediately branded a racist regardless of whether their thoughts are accurate and relevant.

I can’t say if I’m more frustrated by this post or your multi-page takeover of the Killian Hayes thread. Let me be blunt, and I can comprehend the english language so I’m not asking you to explain your post further thanks, there are NO “really severe problems” with the statement that enough is enough. What I’m observing by pro-boycott posters on this thread is really generous amounts of reasonable discourse, as per usual, given the circumstances where feelings are bound to run high. While this forum is generally the most respectful and thoughtful I know of on a range of basketball and non-basketball issues, I read a lot of the same nit-picking tropes we know so well. This isn’t politics, it’s a broad movement and it’s happening now... and it intersects basketball whether some like it or not. The particulars of the Blake shooting are not cut and dry at all, but sometimes history doesn’t have the luxury of waiting for the people on the right side of it to be ‘reasonable’ at every turn or be responsible for bad actors or specific actors making specific statements, or to unfold in the ideal way. But in any case You’re not the victim here Doug, and I don’t care how super duper liberal you are.

[dougthonus]

1. Many people? I was quoting a specific person who made it clear that he essentially is of the mindset that athletes need to shut up and dribble and that exercising civil disobedience is pointless.

Yes, in all of these issues there is a rush to judgment. You saw that with the recent Chicago riots where someone posted an inaccurate story on twitter and then people went and looted all of Michigan avenue. There is an amount of unrest/tension now where people are generally behaving in a guilty until proven innocent manner.

There are many times where people just throw "racism" out there really quickly and without a lot of evidence when discussing anything around it.

2. I would love for someone to explain how you could watch that video and come away with the conclusion that shooting Jacob Blake in the back seven times was the only way to stop him from slowly walking to his car.

Completely agree that they should have stopped him from getting to his car. That is at an absolute minimum awful policework. Whether something valid happened to cause the shooting at the car is obviously a possibility, but in the best case it was complete incompetence to let it get to this point and let that be a possibility. It may have been much worse than that too and a completely unjustified shooting.

3. What does number three have to do with supporting NBA players participating in a peaceful boycott?

Nothing. My commentary overall isn't specifically on this issue or your interaction with a single poster, but the general climate of quick accusations and lack of willingness of people to listen or engage in discourse.

With all due respect, I couldn't give you a bigger eye roll if I tried. Of all the things to find an issue with, if this is what you felt compelled to post was problematic (and not the police brutality aspect... at least not enough to write about it, but to write about a so-called witch hunt) then frankly I don't think you should describe yourself as extremely liberal.

I've posted many, many times in strong support of issues similar to this, but I say this and of course, you question everything about me, my views, and approach me in a completely insulting and disrespectful way. It is an example of the witch hunt climate and lack of willingness to have discourse that I am describing and find problematic, and I get it if you say well, so what, that isn't important right now. This other issue is more important than whether witch hunts are happening.

As Chris Rock said, some jobs can't have bad apples. The police unions aren't doing enough to stamp out systematic racism out of their own police forces and real change doesn't seem to be happening without athletes, celebrities, and protestors putting unprecedented amounts of pressure on politicians and lawmakers.

Agreed completely.

[FecesOfDeath]

League of Circles I worked as a POC firefighter/EMT for 4 years. I’ve seen plenty of altercations of fights and scuffles between the police and Civilians. While we don’t know the whole story. You can tell by the people’s reaction that they felt he shouldn’t have been shot in the back. Also there are 4-5 police officers on the scene. That’s the perfect scenario for the police because you need 4-5 cops to successfully restrain a VIOLENT subject. The police are trained for each of them to grab a limb while the other cop is talking to the subject either telling him what’s happening or talking him down and trying to reason with the person. Now does it always work out smoothly? Hell no. But I have seen cops tackle guys or slam guys onto the ground and make arrest. I’ve seen cops on the ground wrestling with subjects, pinning them down without killing the person. Looking at that video the cop was in position to do a takedown or grab the guy before entering the car but was to scared to do so. Like I’ve said before the guy only looked about 150 pounds and if 3-5 cops can’t handle that situation without shooting a guy 7 times in the back then that’s a problem. Working on the ambulance my crew had to subdue much Bigger, aggressive guys than that and we did so without even having to pull out guns.

I have a feeling that after the George Floyd incident, pinning a suspect down is no longer an option for these LEOs.

I'm telling y'all, present day LEOs have to do their jobs with one hand tied behind each of their backs. The entire nation is watching them now.

[musiqsoulchild]

2. I would love for someone to explain how you could watch that video and come away with the conclusion that shooting Jacob Blake in the back seven times was the only way to stop him from slowly walking to his car.

Easy.




First of all they didn't need to stop him from slowly walking to his car and in fact did not do so





They stopped him from reaching into his car.



then it appears what transpired in that scenario was that they gave him until the absolute last possible second.


They physically struggled with him on the other side of the vehicle they tried to tase him they pointed their guns at him and told him to stop he didn't stop he reached into the car and at the very last moment they use lethal Force to stop him.

The reason they don't just run and tackle him is because that's almost certainly against training as it is just a very stupid. You do not get on the ground with your gun with a violent person who very well may take it away from you and use it on you.

That person gives up their rights when they evade arrest which he was doing for an absolute fact.

I removed the scenario that is charitable to Mr.Blake.

I went with the scenario where he is evil personified.

Now look at the argument you are constructing. I didnt remove or change the chronology of anything you wrote...just spaced them to show chronology.

Step 1: This dangerous criminal who was resisting arrest was allowed to casually walk to his car.

( That is police incompetence. Why not shoot him then?)


Step 2: Why give this dangerous criminal more time to gather his thoughts and go to his vehicle? Was he going to find Jesus in those 3 seconds? Or was he going to find a Weapon?

Step 3: Shoot him anyway...because now you dont have any options left.

The cops and their collective tomfoolery took out so many non-lethal options off the table.

And even with lethal options, the cops allowed it to go from a less dangerous location to a more dangerous one.

Before shooting him anyway.

[wonderboy2]

It’s funny on this board. I love white people but I don’t think some people will ever understand the problems blacks have to face when it comes to dealing with the police unless you are close to the situation. The problem on these boards is that people look at stats to much not knowing that everything thing the police do are not documented especially in poor inner city communities. To tell you the truth most of all my black friends I know have been either roughed up by the police or had a gun stuck in their face. Absolutely none of my friends have a criminal record and all of them are professionals. Hell most of them don’t even drink or smoke. I’ve seen some white people say they are tired of all of the protesting, well that’s to bad because black people have been tired of being the target to racist, scared cops.

Worth noting there is no so-called black experience or white experience. Of course people share things in common but if you think that every black person has been feels they have been systematically oppressed by the police you're just factually incorrect. Youre also very much incorrect to think that that doesn't happen to white people sometimes. Especially young white males. I know I've been unfairly treated by the cops and so have a number of my friends, blacks and white. 4 of my closer friends got into a big serious fight in HS. The one white guy got a felony charge he's been hassled with his whole life. The black guy and the two hispanics got off.

Check out perspectives from some of my favorite intellectuals Glenn Loury and John McWhorter. As well as Colion Noir, Lil Wayne, etc.

I'm not suggesting in any way that everything is fine for black folks and that incredibly harmful racism by police hasn't been an enormous problem. But it's helpful to give scope and scale and to know that it's not all fine and dandy for whites with cops either.

Nobody said it’s all fine and dandy for young white males. But here’s the thing. A lot of my white friends agree on this. It’s very rare for a white guy who is minding his own business walking down the street to get harrased or asked questions by the police. It’s way more common for a young black guy who is in a predominantly white neighborhood who is minding his own business to be questioned by the police. They ask “do you live in this area?” “Where are you heading to?” “Where are you going?” The treatment is different. Not all white cops are like that but some are.

[musiqsoulchild]

It’s funny on this board. I love white people but I don’t think some people will ever understand the problems blacks have to face when it comes to dealing with the police unless you are close to the situation. The problem on these boards is that people look at stats to much not knowing that everything thing the police do are not documented especially in poor inner city communities. To tell you the truth most of all my black friends I know have been either roughed up by the police or had a gun stuck in their face. Absolutely none of my friends have a criminal record and all of them are professionals. Hell most of them don’t even drink or smoke. I’ve seen some white people say they are tired of all of the protesting, well that’s to bad because black people have been tired of being the target to racist, scared cops.

Worth noting there is no so-called black experience or white experience. Of course people share things in common but if you think that every black person has been feels they have been systematically oppressed by the police you're just factually incorrect. Youre also very much incorrect to think that that doesn't happen to white people sometimes. Especially young white males. I know I've been unfairly treated by the cops and so have a number of my friends, blacks and white. 4 of my closer friends got into a big serious fight in HS. The one white guy got a felony charge he's been hassled with his whole life. The black guy and the two hispanics got off.

Check out perspectives from some of my favorite intellectuals Glenn Loury and John McWhorter. As well as Colion Noir, Lil Wayne, etc.

I'm not suggesting in any way that everything is fine for black folks and that incredibly harmful racism by police hasn't been an enormous problem. But it's helpful to give scope and scale and to know that it's not all fine and dandy for whites with cops either.

Nobody said it’s all fine and dandy for young white males. But here’s the thing. A lot of my white friends agree on this. It’s very rare for a white guy who is minding his own business walking down the street to get harrased or asked questions by the police. It’s way more common for a young black guy who is in a predominantly white neighborhood who is minding his own business to be questioned by the police. They ask “do you live in this area?” “Where are you heading to?” “Where are you going?” The treatment is different. Not all white cops are like that but some are.

A theory that is easily proven in this situation itself.

A white kid decides to come all the way from Antioch, Il in response to a "call for action".

Shoots protesters. Let's assume that these protesters got what they deserved.

This plain clothes kid with a gun you cannot miss is standing in the middle of the street. And cops are racing past him towards the protesters.

It's like the cops are color blind. Not really. But you get the pun.

[dougthonus]

I can’t say if I’m more frustrated by this post or your multi-page takeover of the Killian Hayes thread. Let me be blunt, and I can comprehend the english language so I’m not asking you to explain your post further thanks, there are NO “really severe problems” with the statement that enough is enough. What I’m observing by pro-boycott posters on this thread is really generous amounts of reasonable discourse, as per usual, given the circumstances where feelings are bound to run high. While this forum is generally the most respectful and thoughtful I know of on a range of basketball and non-basketball issues, I read a lot of the same nit-picking tropes we know so well. This isn’t politics, it’s a broad movement and it’s happening now... and it intersects basketball whether some like it or not. The particulars of the Blake shooting are not cut and dry at all, but sometimes history doesn’t have the luxury of waiting for the people on the right side of it to be ‘reasonable’ at every turn or be responsible for bad actors or specific actors making specific statements, or to unfold in the ideal way. But in any case You’re not the victim here Doug, and I don’t care how super duper liberal you are.

Just to be clear, I don't think I am the victim, and don't want anyone else to think I am a victim. Fair enough to say the problems I point out aren't relevant or important enough in this moment to point out in this moment in time.

Also agree with much of what you are saying, I also don't like a lot of the nitpicking at time and missing the forest for the trees.

On the boycott, I'm not upset the players boycotted. I'll still watch basketball whenever it is back. I completely understand why they did it.

[wonderboy2]

League of Circles I worked as a POC firefighter/EMT for 4 years. I’ve seen plenty of altercations of fights and scuffles between the police and Civilians. While we don’t know the whole story. You can tell by the people’s reaction that they felt he shouldn’t have been shot in the back. Also there are 4-5 police officers on the scene. That’s the perfect scenario for the police because you need 4-5 cops to successfully restrain a VIOLENT subject. The police are trained for each of them to grab a limb while the other cop is talking to the subject either telling him what’s happening or talking him down and trying to reason with the person. Now does it always work out smoothly? Hell no. But I have seen cops tackle guys or slam guys onto the ground and make arrest. I’ve seen cops on the ground wrestling with subjects, pinning them down without killing the person. Looking at that video the cop was in position to do a takedown or grab the guy before entering the car but was to scared to do so. Like I’ve said before the guy only looked about 150 pounds and if 3-5 cops can’t handle that situation without shooting a guy 7 times in the back then that’s a problem. Working on the ambulance my crew had to subdue much Bigger, aggressive guys than that and we did so without even having to pull out guns.

I have a feeling that after the George Floyd incident, pinning a suspect down is no longer an option for these LEOs.

I'm telling y'all, present day LEOs have to do their jobs with one hand tied behind each of their backs. The entire nation is watching them now.

Fecesofdeath I get what you are saying but like I’ve said I’ve seen cops pin down subjects without killing them. You don’t have to put a knee on a person one into pin them down. I’ve seen plenty of situations where cops had guys pinned on the ground and guys could not get up but could still breathe. It all goes back to training and the heart. Some cops don’t have the heart to do the job and are scared. Believe me I worked with some cops that i dont know how in the world why and how they became cops. They just aren’t cut out for the job.