Around the League 2020 Playoffs

[TheNetsFan]

On the basketball side of things, who else is surprised Nate McMillan was fired?

[vincecarter4pres]

Both LA teams voting to boycott the season. I don't blame them. This country is a **** ing mess.

[MrDollarBills]

But no one believes for a second that the injustice will end once Biden is voted in.

The problem will continue to fester and fester until escalation occurs, and then things will become even more dangerous in the country. It's only a matter of time before the extremists make their presence felt. and then what?

And remember at the moment the right wing establishment from the media to grass roots organisations is focused on making the current government look good. Imagine the lengths they'll go to when they actively stand to benefit from amplifying chaos and the appearance of government incompetence. You can vote Trump out of office but you still have to live with his base, some of whom may just be there for conservative values. Others believe he's the christ figure Q, figthing a war against a global cabal of satan worshipping paedophile cannibals. The division is deep and ugly. Social change has to be fought for, because you can bet it will be fought against.

Voting him out won't do anything. Police departments are state/city run. The president/federal government doesn't have any standing there. Forming a single, national police force would infringe on state's rights, and is not feasible. The first time this happens under a Biden presidency, tensions will escalate again. The issue is that the current 2 party system forces everything into red & blue with no shades of purple anymore.

It should be ok to condemn unprovoked police violence, yet support the majority of police that are genuinely good people that put their lives on the line in crisis.

It should be ok to sympathize with African Americans, believe that something needs to be done to address the issue of unprovoked police violence against African Americans, yet also condemn the violence, rioting, looting & destruction of private property.

MLK, famously stated "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction ... The chain reaction of evil - hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars - must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation. (1963)"

Is it wrong to believe that MLK was right? To sympathize with BLM, but also believe that some of the destruction that has occurred during their demonstrations is actually making tensions higher, police (and civilians who fear for their businesses) more nervous/anxious, and that these images we see on TV are actually furthering that spiral/chain reaction?

Everything in life has shades of gray. You have to be willing to try to understand the perspective of both sides. Unfortunately over the last 8-10 years, cable (propaganda) news channels & social media echo chambers have taken all rational thought out of life's issues & tried to force everything into purely binary red or blue buckets.

I feel that the Democratic Party needs to be careful and toe a slightly more neutral line. I fear there's a strong chance that the BLM message gets lost, and the images of buildings on fire will push moderates towards Trump, because at the end of the day, no matter what politicians/media tries to feed you, most people vote based on an impact weighted handful of issues that impact THEIR lives most, especially with the binary political system (since there's no way to vote for 5 red & 5 blue stances). Trump is banking on people being worried about their wallet due to the shutdown (or China), and their safety. I fear the isolated, non-peaceful protests & soundbites Biden saying he would keep the nation shut down if required are playing right into Trump's plan.

I think you're projecting a lot of your personal opinion on the matter in regards to Biden saying he would shut the nation down to eradicate the Coronavirus in the US. I'm pretty sure that his stance on this plays well with the Democratic base, which frankly, is the only base that matters for Biden and who he needs to get out and vote. He's not going to win over anyone who is still claiming to be GOP right now. Now of course, a shut down would have to come with plenty of financial support for individuals who can't work and also small businesses. But that's a topic for another time.

Regarding your comments on BLM, let me ask you a serious question: when you look at the videos of the destruction, and of the police brutality occuring during these peaceful protests...who do you see mostly in the footage?

Because from what I've seen, especially regarding Portland and now Kenosha, Wisconsin...the majority of the protesters, and the ones feeding into your narrative about BLM regarding the rioting and destruction...are white people. We aren't the ones out here doing this stuff, this is the actions of privileged white people who come into communities of color, burn things down, and leave.

But, that's besides the point. What I really want to get at, is your quotations of MLK. Because i take offense to your use of his quotes to somehow tell us Black people to not be enraged or lash out. That is a typical tactic and one that I think you're above using to be honest, just based off of my conversations with you on here. You're a smart dude.

I want to offer you a quote from MLK, taken from his Letter from a Birmingham Jail in 1963:

Of course, there is nothing new about this kind of civil disobedience. It was evidenced sublimely in the refusal of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego to obey the laws of Nebuchadnezzar, on the ground that a higher moral law was at stake. It was practiced superbly by the early Christians, who were willing to face hungry lions and the excruciating pain of chopping blocks rather than submit to certain unjust laws of the Roman Empire. To a degree, academic freedom is a reality today because Socrates practiced civil disobedience. In our own nation, the Boston Tea Party represented a massive act of civil disobedience.

We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was "legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was "illegal." It was "illegal" to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler's Germany. Even so, I am sure that, had I lived in Germany at the time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers. If today I lived in a Communist country where certain principles dear to the Christian faith are suppressed, I would openly advocate disobeying that country's antireligious laws.

I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.

In your statement you assert that our actions, even though peaceful, must be condemned because they precipitate violence. But is this a logical assertion? Isn't this like condemning a robbed man because his possession of money precipitated the evil act of robbery? Isn't this like condemning Socrates because his unswerving commitment to truth and his philosophical inquiries precipitated the act by the misguided populace in which they made him drink hemlock? Isn't this like condemning Jesus because his unique God consciousness and never ceasing devotion to God's will precipitated the evil act of crucifixion? We must come to see that, as the federal courts have consistently affirmed, it is wrong to urge an individual to cease his efforts to gain his basic constitutional rights because the quest may precipitate violence. Society must protect the robbed and punish the robber. I had also hoped that the white moderate would reject the myth concerning time in relation to the struggle for freedom. I have just received a letter from a white brother in Texas. He writes: "All Christians know that the colored people will receive equal rights eventually, but it is possible that you are in too great a religious hurry. It has taken Christianity almost two thousand years to accomplish what it has. The teachings of Christ take time to come to earth." Such an attitude stems from a tragic misconception of time, from the strangely irrational notion that there is something in the very flow of time that will inevitably cure all ills. Actually, time itself is neutral; it can be used either destructively or constructively. More and more I feel that the people of ill will have used time much more effectively than have the people of good will. We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people. Human progress never rolls in on wheels of inevitability; it comes through the tireless efforts of men willing to be co workers with God, and without this hard work, time itself becomes an ally of the forces of social stagnation. We must use time creatively, in the knowledge that the time is always ripe to do right. Now is the time to make real the promise of democracy and transform our pending national elegy into a creative psalm of brotherhood. Now is the time to lift our national policy from the quicksand of racial injustice to the solid rock of human dignity.

I will hope that, in all honesty and good faith, you will read that entire quote and respond earnestly. Because in the above quote, he is talking directly to you.

[LOUiS-D]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

This portrayal is ****ing disgusting. Imagine conflating indescriminate murder with order... well I guess we don't have to imagine. That's what this whole thing is about.

For symantics, I class racially motivated violence as indescriminate because even though it's targeted it's done with no consideration for the victims or with any sense of justice that could hold water.

[Papi_swav]

All that struggle the NBA went thru to try to save the season, just for it to end like this is crazy. I highly doubt they end it. But honestly, I really don't know what can be done from the owners part. Maybe they got some connections but idk what else can be done from them in this situation . Any ideas?

[Papi_swav]

Kendrick Perkins has got to be the meanest-spirited media guy I've ever seen covering the NBA. He just seems to go after Kyrie and others without a shred of remorse, without any sense of humor or fair play or anything other than pure venom.

I don't get the thinking behind whoever hired him and keeps him around. Well, I mean I guess it makes sense for FOX, but even ESPN has to be a little better than that, I would hope.

lol nope. The same company that had Ryan Hollins up there with his hot takes. And also paul pierce with his guarantees after 1 game of the playoffs. And there are several others. They just hire anybody who was a former player or created a buzz with hot takes.

[TheNetsFan]

And remember at the moment the right wing establishment from the media to grass roots organisations is focused on making the current government look good. Imagine the lengths they'll go to when they actively stand to benefit from amplifying chaos and the appearance of government incompetence. You can vote Trump out of office but you still have to live with his base, some of whom may just be there for conservative values. Others believe he's the christ figure Q, figthing a war against a global cabal of satan worshipping paedophile cannibals. The division is deep and ugly. Social change has to be fought for, because you can bet it will be fought against.

Voting him out won't do anything. Police departments are state/city run. The president/federal government doesn't have any standing there. Forming a single, national police force would infringe on state's rights, and is not feasible. The first time this happens under a Biden presidency, tensions will escalate again. The issue is that the current 2 party system forces everything into red & blue with no shades of purple anymore.

It should be ok to condemn unprovoked police violence, yet support the majority of police that are genuinely good people that put their lives on the line in crisis.

It should be ok to sympathize with African Americans, believe that something needs to be done to address the issue of unprovoked police violence against African Americans, yet also condemn the violence, rioting, looting & destruction of private property.

MLK, famously stated "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction ... The chain reaction of evil - hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars - must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation. (1963)"

Is it wrong to believe that MLK was right? To sympathize with BLM, but also believe that some of the destruction that has occurred during their demonstrations is actually making tensions higher, police (and civilians who fear for their businesses) more nervous/anxious, and that these images we see on TV are actually furthering that spiral/chain reaction?

Everything in life has shades of gray. You have to be willing to try to understand the perspective of both sides. Unfortunately over the last 8-10 years, cable (propaganda) news channels & social media echo chambers have taken all rational thought out of life's issues & tried to force everything into purely binary red or blue buckets.

I feel that the Democratic Party needs to be careful and toe a slightly more neutral line. I fear there's a strong chance that the BLM message gets lost, and the images of buildings on fire will push moderates towards Trump, because at the end of the day, no matter what politicians/media tries to feed you, most people vote based on an impact weighted handful of issues that impact THEIR lives most, especially with the binary political system (since there's no way to vote for 5 red & 5 blue stances). Trump is banking on people being worried about their wallet due to the shutdown (or China), and their safety. I fear the isolated, non-peaceful protests & soundbites Biden saying he would keep the nation shut down if required are playing right into Trump's plan.

I think you're projecting a lot of your personal opinion on the matter in regards to Biden saying he would shut the nation down to eradicate the Coronavirus in the US. I'm pretty sure that his stance on this plays well with the Democratic base, which frankly, is the only base that matters for Biden and who he needs to get out and vote. He's not going to win over anyone who is still claiming to be GOP right now. Now of course, a shut down would have to come with plenty of financial support for individuals who can't work and also small businesses. But that's a topic for another time.

Regarding your comments on BLM, let me ask you a serious question: when you look at the videos of the destruction, and of the police brutality occuring during these peaceful protests...who do you see mostly in the footage?

Because from what I've seen, especially regarding Portland and now Kenosha, Wisconsin...the majority of the protesters, and the ones feeding into your narrative about BLM regarding the rioting and destruction...are white people. We aren't the ones out here doing this stuff, this is the actions of privileged white people who come into communities of color, burn things down, and leave.

But, that's besides the point. What I really want to get at, is your quotations of MLK. Because i take offense to your use of his quotes to somehow tell us Black people to not be enraged or lash out. That is a typical tactic and one that I think you're above using to be honest, just based off of my conversations with you on here. You're a smart dude.

I want to offer you a quote from MLK, taken from his Letter from a Birmingham Jail in 1963:

Of course, there is nothing new about this kind of civil disobedience. It was evidenced sublimely in the refusal of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego to obey the laws of Nebuchadnezzar, on the ground that a higher moral law was at stake. It was practiced superbly by the early Christians, who were willing to face hungry lions and the excruciating pain of chopping blocks rather than submit to certain unjust laws of the Roman Empire. To a degree, academic freedom is a reality today because Socrates practiced civil disobedience. In our own nation, the Boston Tea Party represented a massive act of civil disobedience.

We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was "legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was "illegal." It was "illegal" to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler's Germany. Even so, I am sure that, had I lived in Germany at the time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers. If today I lived in a Communist country where certain principles dear to the Christian faith are suppressed, I would openly advocate disobeying that country's antireligious laws.

I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.

In your statement you assert that our actions, even though peaceful, must be condemned because they precipitate violence. But is this a logical assertion? Isn't this like condemning a robbed man because his possession of money precipitated the evil act of robbery? Isn't this like condemning Socrates because his unswerving commitment to truth and his philosophical inquiries precipitated the act by the misguided populace in which they made him drink hemlock? Isn't this like condemning Jesus because his unique God consciousness and never ceasing devotion to God's will precipitated the evil act of crucifixion? We must come to see that, as the federal courts have consistently affirmed, it is wrong to urge an individual to cease his efforts to gain his basic constitutional rights because the quest may precipitate violence. Society must protect the robbed and punish the robber. I had also hoped that the white moderate would reject the myth concerning time in relation to the struggle for freedom. I have just received a letter from a white brother in Texas. He writes: "All Christians know that the colored people will receive equal rights eventually, but it is possible that you are in too great a religious hurry. It has taken Christianity almost two thousand years to accomplish what it has. The teachings of Christ take time to come to earth." Such an attitude stems from a tragic misconception of time, from the strangely irrational notion that there is something in the very flow of time that will inevitably cure all ills. Actually, time itself is neutral; it can be used either destructively or constructively. More and more I feel that the people of ill will have used time much more effectively than have the people of good will. We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people. Human progress never rolls in on wheels of inevitability; it comes through the tireless efforts of men willing to be co workers with God, and without this hard work, time itself becomes an ally of the forces of social stagnation. We must use time creatively, in the knowledge that the time is always ripe to do right. Now is the time to make real the promise of democracy and transform our pending national elegy into a creative psalm of brotherhood. Now is the time to lift our national policy from the quicksand of racial injustice to the solid rock of human dignity.

I will hope that, in all honesty and good faith, you will read that entire quote and respond earnestly. Because in the above quote, he is talking directly to you.

This is way too long to break into quoted sections, but the two main points:

1) Who I see in most of those videos: I 100% agree most of them, especially the Portland, & WI ones are white. Minny, especially the looting videos I saw were more black, but lets live in the present. I agree that it's heavily white instigated. For all I know they could be supremecists or radical right people looking to feed the narrative, they could be there to genuinely there to support, but get too caught up in the moment, or they're just anarchists with no affiliation that like to see things burn. My point is just that we, the voting public, and the world, shouldn't have to try to figure out that truth. I'm just saying that leadership, both for BLM & the Democratic party should come out and say we don't condone that sort of violence during protest. That's not us. By not doing that, it gives Trump political ammunition.

2) With respect to the MLK quote. By no means am I saying to slow or scale down the protests. I'm not trying to sweep anything other the rug or say that these things need to be allowed to slowly change over time (I hope you didn't interpret me saying that police are local entities & that any president wouldn't have that level of authority as me saying to stay patient & let evolve over 5 more generations). Don't let things stagnate. But my understanding of this MLK quote is that he's saying don't use our peaceful protests as an excuse/triggering event for violent retaliation. I agree, but I go back to #1. Without denouncing the destructive acts the way MLK always advocated for non-violence, whether it's BLM, some other organized anarchist group acting out under the guise of BLM, or just random individuals getting carried away, those acts are being associated with the BLM protests rightly or wrongly. Even if it's wrongly associated, you can't say definitively that peaceful actions are precipitating violent retaliation, because violent actions are occurring at the protests. I don't know if denouncing those acts would be enough to disassociate them completely, but it's a start.

[MrDollarBills]

Read on Twitter

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This portrayal is ****ing disgusting. Imagine conflating indescriminate murder with order... well I guess we don't have to imagine. That's what this whole thing is about.

For symantics, I class racially motivated violence as indescriminate because even though it's targeted it's done with no consideration for the victims or with any sense of justice that could hold water.

His little bitch ass needs a bullet in his head, **** all this.

Police want to abuse people, shoot people's eyes out, tear gas them, and now they are allowing white supremacists to kill people.

If folks started letting off at the cops during these confrontations, I won't give a damn. They have it coming

[brewbucks]

I might have to adopt the Nets as my second team. There’s a lot of great commentary and discussion on this board.

[GTR11]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

This portrayal is ****ing disgusting. Imagine conflating indescriminate murder with order... well I guess we don't have to imagine. That's what this whole thing is about.

For symantics, I class racially motivated violence as indescriminate because even though it's targeted it's done with no consideration for the victims or with any sense of justice that could hold water.

He really trying to justify murder and still has a job. These Fox ppl crossed the lines, I'm done with them.

[MrDollarBills]

1) My point is just that we, the voting public, and the world, shouldn't have to try to figure out that truth. I'm just saying that leadership, both for BLM & the Democratic party should come out and say we don't condone that sort of violence during protest. That's not us. By not doing that, it gives Trump political ammunition.

My issue with this is that the police have clearly been agitators in these protests turning into violent clashes. We have ample evidence that most protests go off peacefully until police come in waving batons and shooting tear gas. Who are you asking to be condemned here?

With that said, BLM doesn't have set leadership. It's a grass roots movement that really isn't connected to the original BLM that started up years ago. Right now what you're seeing is people who have had enough or are waking up to the reality of what Black Americans deal with at the hands of cops and are outraged. So there is no one to stand up and denounce anything.

The Democratic Party doesn't condone violence. You will never see Joe Biden or Kamala Harris saying hell yeah burn the city to the ground. To even insinuate that is just...I dunno. Where is this coming from exactly? Now, if you're asking them to condemn protesters for things becoming violent, and not the violent cops who shoot out eyeballs or tear gas women until they suffocate, or not the white supremacists who have been shooting people at these protests...well, that's what Trump has been doing.

I'm pretty sure that the Dem party line has been to denounce police brutality and call for peaceful protest, not violent civil unrest. But if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

2) With respect to the MLK quote. By no means am I saying to slow or scale down the protests. I'm not trying to sweep anything other the rug or say that these things need to be allowed to slowly change over time (I hope you didn't interpret me saying that police are local entities & that any president wouldn't have that level of authority as me saying to stay patient & let evolve over 5 more generations). Don't let things stagnate. But my understanding of this MLK quote is that he's saying don't use our peaceful protests as an excuse/triggering event for violent retaliation. I agree, but I go back to #1. Without denouncing the destructive acts the way MLK always advocated for non-violence, whether it's BLM, some other organized anarchist group acting out under the guise of BLM, or just random individuals getting carried away, those acts are being associated with the BLM protests rightly or wrongly. Even if it's wrongly associated, you can't say definitively that peaceful actions are precipitating violent retaliation, because violent actions are occurring at the protests. I don't know if denouncing those acts would be enough to disassociate them completely, but it's a start.

The problem is, you are solely focusing on the destructive acts being carried out by non peaceful actors during protests, and are overlooking the violence being perpetrated by the police during these protests. In a majority of these protests that turn violent, the police are the agitators. It doesn't matter who comes out to denounce someone throwing a brick through a bakery shop window when you have cops behaving like animals, and now allowing white supremacist to gun people down in the streets. Yelling "hey don't do that!" to protesters while looking the other way when cops shoot eyes out with rubber bullets isn't going to fix this issue.

That being said...how much do you expect people to take? Let's set aside the fact that we have outside agitators entering these protests and destroying stuff. What about the Black people who are really angry and are lashing out by yes, breaking stuff, setting buildings on fire? Why is property being valued more than the lives of Black people who are brutalized and murdered by police? This is exactly why we're all so **** ing angry. White people care more about a goddamn broken window than they do living and breathing human beings.

The destruction of property during these demonstrations should not be held synonymous with the violence being protested against. It's not on the same level.

Also, this is what MLK said about riots and looting, in 1967:

"Urban riots must now be recognized as durable social phenomena. They may be deplored, but they are there and should be understood. Urban riots are a special form of violence. They are not insurrections. The rioters are not seeking to seize territory or to attain control of institutions. They are mainly intended to shock the white community. They are a distorted form of social protest. The looting which is their principal feature serves many functions. It enables the most enraged and deprived Negro to take hold of consumer goods with the ease the white man does by using his purse. Often the Negro does not even want what he takes; he wants the experience of taking. But most of all, alienated from society and knowing that this society cherishes property above people, he is shocking it by abusing property rights. There are thus elements of emotional catharsis in the violent act. This may explain why most cities in which riots have occurred have not had a repetition, even though the causative conditions remain. It is also noteworthy that the amount of physical harm done to white people other than police is infinitesimal and in Detroit whites and Negroes looted in unity. "

Reference: https://www.apa.org/monitor/features/king-challenge

If it takes a police building being burned to the ground, so be it. Because clearly, athletes taking knees, and our cries for police to stop abusing and killing us continue to fall upon deaf ears

[MrDollarBills]

I might have to adopt the Nets as my second team. There’s a lot of great commentary and discussion on this board.

dude we love Brook, and personally I am now rooting for you guys to win it all if play resumes. you're more than welcome

[MrDollarBills]

Read on Twitter

No doubt about it coach

[gigantes]

This caught my eye and I wanted to comment a little:

...If it takes a police building being burned to the ground, so be it. Because clearly, athletes taking knees, and our cries for police to stop abusing and killing us continue to fall upon deaf ears

I fear many are under the impression that if enough attention is brought to police injustice that the police (and the factions & institutions that enable them) will eventually sort of realise 'hey, we're getting kind of out of control with this; it's time to lay off a bit and maybe reevaluate!'

Unfortunately, from what I gather of how these people think, American police moreso tend to feel insulted and challenged. Just like how a typical cop feels attacked if you challenge his authority in the field, if you similarly question the conduct of his brothers (the Thin Blue Line, etc) on a larger scale, then he'll feel disrespected and have all the more reason to swing his baton more freely in future. To fire his rubber bullets right at the skull instead of the ground in front of a person, what they were actually designed for.
To beat the dissent and lack of respect back down. To put people in their place, violently if need be.

So we're seeing this across a steady number of incidents across the country. Police feel attacked and deeply offended by the protests, by the pushback, by media scrutiny, by "defund the police!" initiatives, by the moralistic messages to shape up, and so forth. So they're angry; in battle mode; and they want to strike back for their side.

Obviously there's an important backstory as to why and how we got to this point, but I think one crucial, early step is for people to understand how most police think. Not just the tendency to feel insulted and to respond with knee-jerk aggression, but the fact that they are intrinsically herd creatures, not individual thinkers when it comes to this stuff.

A peaceful protest should be a significant public message that helps spur needed change, but in Trump's America, I think it can actually backfire to a significant extent... angering people in positions of power and authority (like the police), with innocent people everywhere then paying the price.

[vincecarter4pres]

The bottom line is, a lot of people just don't get it, or they don't care and are hiding behind their conservative beliefs to pretend they aren't bigoted. They'll jump through fiery hoops and balance on tight ropes above starving alligators to debate racism and oppression to the point they're flat out defending it, it's just facking gross.

I don't get too involved here on this board about it, not entirely sure why, because on other places on the internet I'm involved in a lot of these discussions. And I'm not trying to make it like I'm out there in the streets, in the protests, but I promise you I'm that dude who is constantly on co-workers, friends, family and strangers asses in person, shutting down their blatant and subtle bull **** and championing for civil rights, simply because if you can open even one person's eyes, it's better then none and maybe they then reciprocate it down the line. And simply because, if someone is a hardcore bigot who isn't going to change, that person needs to be dealt with accordingly, no free passes, eat a bag of dicks and suffocate. I've been doing this long before the present, before Trump, etc. I'm not looking for a medal, or a cookie, or some figurative pat on the back. I do it because it needs to be done, it's the right thing to do and I don't care if I piss off some soft ass snowflake even if they're never going to change their hateful, fear-mongering, paranoid, insecure ways. But that doesn't mean I substitute current racism and oppression, with the some of the new left's racism and oppression, where you get all these hardcore liberals telling black people and other POC and other regular Joe white people, what they're supposed to think and feel, how they're supposed to act and what the new set of parameters will be for them, that the racists and oppressive older white generation will find somewhat acceptable, especially in the case of the former 2 groups.

This country is a disaster right now, it has been bad for awhile, but Trump and the GOP have made it cool to be hardcore, out in the open racist and murderous again. Too many people in denial. Not enough actual good people in power and politics. No leadership. Systemic oppression, racist violent pigs, and the class war and discrepancy between wages and inflation, along with the scumbaggery of the MSM, pushing narratives to fuel civil unrest til maybe we see an actual civil war, lack of healthcare and safety, COVID-19 killing people in the hundreds of thousands, climate change being swept under the rug and the rich owning all of us and their own army and government, it's all just too much. I don't even know what the solution is, or even the proper place to start, but something legitimately positive needs to begin and it needs to begin with the quickness. And it can't be a band aid over a bullet wound. It needs to be the start, to an evolving long term turnover of everything as we know it. It's idealistic, it's naive, but it needs to become reality. We have lost our power as the people no matter what race we are, but it has to start with the atrocities which are currently at the forefront,before all of us can be free and that means truly liberating the black people and other POC of this country and making them equals, actually even further, to give them the same advantages over white people, which white people have had over them since forever. I'm not someone who feels I should apologize or feel guilty for being white, but I wish I could apologize for and suppress all the white people out there who are either actually racist, or those so up in their feels and filled with ignorance that the power struggle of their narcissistic egos and entitlement won't allow them to open their eyes and let go of the false sense of narrow minded security they think they have and just be better. I wish I had an answer other than rhetorical cliche-ish verbose, or the violent extremes on the other polar, but I do not. And that's the thing, I don't believe I'm saying anything profound. In fact it's tragic and embarrassing to me, that in the year 2020 these things are still such a big issue in developed nations like this and that it's even a debate. Like wtf is wrong with this place, with people, when it's a debate whether we should continue being racist, bigoted, violent and oppressive? Or that we continue to deny it's existence? It's going to be a long, arduous process, but it has to begin somewhere, maybe this will be that moment.

[vincecarter4pres]

This caught my eye and I wanted to comment a little:

...If it takes a police building being burned to the ground, so be it. Because clearly, athletes taking knees, and our cries for police to stop abusing and killing us continue to fall upon deaf ears

I fear many are under the impression that if enough attention is brought to police injustice that the police (and the factions & institutions that enable them) will eventually sort of realise 'hey, we're getting kind of out of control with this; it's time to lay off a bit and maybe reevaluate!'

Unfortunately, from what I gather of how these people think, American police moreso tend to feel insulted and challenged. Just like how a typical cop feels attacked if you challenge his authority in the field, if you similarly question the conduct of his brothers (the Thin Blue Line, etc) on a larger scale, then he'll feel disrespected and have all the more reason to swing his baton more freely in future. To fire his rubber bullets right at the skull instead of the ground in front of a person, what they were actually designed for.
To beat the dissent and lack of respect back down. To put people in their place, violently if need be.

So we're seeing this across a steady number of incidents across the country. Police feel attacked and deeply offended by the protests, by the pushback, by media scrutiny, by "defund the police!" initiatives, by the moralistic messages to shape up, and so forth. So they're angry; in battle mode; and they want to strike back for their side.

Obviously there's an important backstory as to why and how we got to this point, but I think one crucial, early step is for people to understand how most police think. Not just the tendency to feel insulted and to respond with knee-jerk aggression, but the fact that they are intrinsically herd creatures, not individual thinkers when it comes to this stuff.

A peaceful protest should be a significant public message that helps spur needed change, but in Trump's America, I think it can actually backfire to a significant extent... angering people in positions of power and authority (like the police), with innocent people everywhere then paying the price.

This is actually the sad reality of it, but you can't just let them win.

And pretty soon it's going to be fight fire with fire, hopefully Trump is out of office before that happens, because although I have very little faith in Biden, Trump will no doubt incite the new civil way to the umpth degree at that point and also send in the military to exterminate people in droves. Hopefully we won't have to see how the military would react to orders like that.

[Prokorov]

All that struggle the NBA went thru to try to save the season, just for it to end like this is crazy. I highly doubt they end it. But honestly, I really don't know what can be done from the owners part. Maybe they got some connections but idk what else can be done from them in this situation . Any ideas?

what ideas? they should end it... they should have never started it.

until every cop who beat or killed an innocent black man is in jail there should be no more sports

[Prokorov]

This caught my eye and I wanted to comment a little:

...If it takes a police building being burned to the ground, so be it. Because clearly, athletes taking knees, and our cries for police to stop abusing and killing us continue to fall upon deaf ears

I fear many are under the impression that if enough attention is brought to police injustice that the police (and the factions & institutions that enable them) will eventually sort of realise 'hey, we're getting kind of out of control with this; it's time to lay off a bit and maybe reevaluate!'

Unfortunately, from what I gather of how these people think, American police moreso tend to feel insulted and challenged. Just like how a typical cop feels attacked if you challenge his authority in the field, if you similarly question the conduct of his brothers (the Thin Blue Line, etc) on a larger scale, then he'll feel disrespected and have all the more reason to swing his baton more freely in future. To fire his rubber bullets right at the skull instead of the ground in front of a person, what they were actually designed for.
To beat the dissent and lack of respect back down. To put people in their place, violently if need be.

So we're seeing this across a steady number of incidents across the country. Police feel attacked and deeply offended by the protests, by the pushback, by media scrutiny, by "defund the police!" initiatives, by the moralistic messages to shape up, and so forth. So they're angry; in battle mode; and they want to strike back for their side.

Obviously there's an important backstory as to why and how we got to this point, but I think one crucial, early step is for people to understand how most police think. Not just the tendency to feel insulted and to respond with knee-jerk aggression, but the fact that they are intrinsically herd creatures, not individual thinkers when it comes to this stuff.

A peaceful protest should be a significant public message that helps spur needed change, but in Trump's America, I think it can actually backfire to a significant extent... angering people in positions of power and authority (like the police), with innocent people everywhere then paying the price.

This is actually the sad reality of it, but you can't just let them win.

And pretty soon it's going to be fight fire with fire, hopefully Trump is out of office before that happens, because although I have very little faith in Biden, Trump will no doubt incite the new civil way to the umpth degree at that point and also send in the military to exterminate people in droves. Hopefully we won't have to see how the military would react to orders like that.

If trump is re-elected there is 0 doubt in my mind he will use the military to kill blacks in mass. And he will encourage a civil war. it will go down in history as one of the worst genocides of all time. he will also seek to remove term limits and be president indefintely and if the democrats dont take the senate that is exactly what will happen since he owns the supreme court and AGs.

he already has half the US thinking protestors and blacks are at fault with a subset of those just being straight up white supremists.

we have already begun seeking dual citizenship in canada and italy in case we need to get out fast.

it is a scary time to be alive

[MrDollarBills]

This country makes me want to crawl in a hole and die. **** everything

[Stone]

I might have to adopt the Nets as my second team. There’s a lot of great commentary and discussion on this board.

We here at the Nets board are also known for our great party's. At the finally of the last one we blasted Prokorov out of a cannon.

Seriously, I am grateful for the great discussion and debates we have on this board. I'm not above admitting I have learned a lot on here.