OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc

[MrMiyagi]

2 officers. 3 showed up after fight. So yes, there is a difference in officers through every police department.

I am a Marine, and there are some marines that barely squeek by the training, that I would not want to go to the sandbox with.

Wow, you are so close to actually getting it, it's like you're just flat refusing to at this point.

I get it. There are cops who need more training. That is why I say do not defund them, but fund the training portion.

My ask from my original post was, what would you have done in that situation ?

Answer that?

How thick are you. I would not shoot the guy and physically apprehend him. The fact that he was able to walk around to his car door means there was a failure on the part of the officers. The fact that he was within arms reach when he was shot means that he could been grabbed and pulled away from the vehicle.

[GoodBehavior]

If you don't think a billion dollar corporation isn't a political vehicle since Citizens United, you're fooling yourself. Just about every billion dollar corporation lobbies the government in some fashion. The players should be looking at making the company they work for is working politically for them.

That's not how it work at all. Corporation uses SuperPac to influence towards their economic interest (trade, taxes, etc). It's white and black (for the most part). They funnel money towards candidate who will benefit their bottom the line the most. It's an easy equation for them.

A Superfac focusing in on police reform is illogical since every candidate has some police reform on their agenda. They also have other issues that makes it impractical to select one from another. How would the NBA know to fund one candidate from another? Do you go with the candidate who wants to fund better training? or Do you go with his opponent who wants to defund the police? What happens if the candidate is pro-gun while having a better police reform program? What if he doesn't supports same sex marriage? Are we sure all NBA players are okay with a SuperPac funding an anti-abortion candidate just because he's for police reform? etc.

We're wasting our time discussing these topics because at the end of the day, nothing will change.

People who think nothing can change are the biggest reason why nothing will change.

I refute your argument, and you reply with vague generalization that does nothing to push the conversation forward. We're talking about the NBA here, you think they have some higher power out there that they clearly don't possess. You are delusional if you think the NBA and its player will enact real change.

There are better medium and mechanism to enact changes. The NBA is not one of those, especially when they clearly are not willing to forgo the season, like Colin. We'll talk if they go down that route, but it looks like they're not willing to go down that sacrificial route. If the playoff resumes (with zero to show for in terms of changes/reforms), what's the point of all this, really?

[Wilber85]

Wow, you are so close to actually getting it, it's like you're just flat refusing to at this point.

I get it. There are cops who need more training. That is why I say do not defund them, but fund the training portion.

My ask from my original post was, what would you have done in that situation ?

Answer that?

How thick are you. I would not shoot the guy and physically apprehend him. The fact that he was able to walk around to his car door means there was a failure on the part of the officers. The fact that he was within arms reach when he was shot means that he could been grabbed and pulled away from the vehicle.

Yes that is why I said I blame the cops for allowing it to get that far. But you also have to blame Blake for fighting, resisting, and going aggressively to car and reaching. What other outcome do you expect?

[Wilber85]

Wow, you are so close to actually getting it, it's like you're just flat refusing to at this point.

I get it. There are cops who need more training. That is why I say do not defund them, but fund the training portion.

My ask from my original post was, what would you have done in that situation ?

Answer that?

How thick are you. I would not shoot the guy and physically apprehend him. The fact that he was able to walk around to his car door means there was a failure on the part of the officers. The fact that he was within arms reach when he was shot means that he could been grabbed and pulled away from the vehicle.

And you are the type of cop we would be reading about on the news "End of Watch"

[MrMiyagi]

I get it. There are cops who need more training. That is why I say do not defund them, but fund the training portion.

My ask from my original post was, what would you have done in that situation ?

Answer that?

How thick are you. I would not shoot the guy and physically apprehend him. The fact that he was able to walk around to his car door means there was a failure on the part of the officers. The fact that he was within arms reach when he was shot means that he could been grabbed and pulled away from the vehicle.

And you are the type of cop we would be reading about on the news "End of Watch"

I would rather be killed in the line of duty than murder in the line of duty.

[Wilber85]

How thick are you. I would not shoot the guy and physically apprehend him. The fact that he was able to walk around to his car door means there was a failure on the part of the officers. The fact that he was within arms reach when he was shot means that he could been grabbed and pulled away from the vehicle.

And you are the type of cop we would be reading about on the news "End of Watch"

I would rather be killed in the line of duty than murder in the line of duty.

Dude didn't die. Also the difference in justifying it. If the first attempts didn't work and dude reached for a weapon, that is the next step! Take action.

[Wilber85]

Playoffs back on. Guess the players were all talk for the show!

[MrMiyagi]

And you are the type of cop we would be reading about on the news "End of Watch"

I would rather be killed in the line of duty than murder in the line of duty.

Dude didn't die. Also the difference in justifying it. If the first attempts didn't work and dude reached for a weapon, that is the next step! Take action.

Tell me something, Mr. Marine, what do you fire a gun at according to gun safety protocol, targets you want to destroy or targets you want to impede?

Just because he didn't die (yet, he's still in critical condition), doesn't mean action wasn't taken to end his life.

[Wilber85]

I would rather be killed in the line of duty than murder in the line of duty.

Dude didn't die. Also the difference in justifying it. If the first attempts didn't work and dude reached for a weapon, that is the next step! Take action.

Tell me something, Mr. Marine, what do you fire a gun at according to gun safety protocol, targets you want to destroy or targets you want to impede?

Just because he didn't die (yet, he's still in critical condition), doesn't mean action wasn't taken to end his life.

I am done arguing with a wall. The dude was a sex offender and this could have been prevented if he didn't resist, fight, get tased, and aggressively go towards the car and reach for a weapon.

8 shots were excessive. Luckily the cop needed some range practice. I also blame the cops for being pussies and not being able to take him out the right away so this didn't happen.

He should be thankful he is still alive.

[Wilber85]

So ..........

What did the boycott accomplish?

[Wilber85]

Wonder if the players realized that a poorly trained group of cops in random cities across the US are likely to repeat this kind of incident every month for the rest of our lives and that you cannot just stop working or have a pro sports league cancel every time it happens.

I think they should be consistent on Police Brutality no matter race, and push sentencing to get more strict.

[Wilber85]

I think the police need to put money for additional training but not defunded.

Also

I think if the players want to do something positive. They should start a non-profit and if the person doesn't resist arrest and gets arrested they can reach out for legal guidance through the non-profit.

[sunsbum]

How thick are you. I would not shoot the guy and physically apprehend him. The fact that he was able to walk around to his car door means there was a failure on the part of the officers. The fact that he was within arms reach when he was shot means that he could been grabbed and pulled away from the vehicle.

And you are the type of cop we would be reading about on the news "End of Watch"

I would rather be killed in the line of duty than murder in the line of duty.

You would rather die at the hands of a life long criminal than go home to your family? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. When do people start holding these idiots accountable for their lifestyle?

[Wilber85]

And you are the type of cop we would be reading about on the news "End of Watch"

I would rather be killed in the line of duty than murder in the line of duty.

You would rather die at the hands of a life long criminal than go home to your family? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. When do people start holding these idiots accountable for their lifestyle?

Nobody sees how the sex offender could have prevented himself from being shot, all they see is the shooting.

They need to hold these people accountable and admit they should never have put themselves in the situation

Never should have had a warrant, never should have fought the cops, never should have said I am getting knife and going to car and reach in.

Also cops shouldn't have let him get to the point, and should have been able to take him down

[DroughtsOverPHX]

The preaching to the choir aspect of this bugs me. Being NBA fans we chose to closely follow a sport dominated by black men and most of us follow those players without a thought of color. I get that black lives matter even without them throwing it in my face constantly during the bubble experience. I don't know what I am supposed to do differently other than nod my head, vote for Biden and call out anyone who says blue lives or any other lives matter and never under any circumstances point out anything negative about the people who have been shot.

I guess maybe I'm not the fan I thought I was. They can cancel the season. I'm sick of the politics, hypocrisy and virtue signaling bs. They won't take on any empowering women messages any time soon or at least until the train is done.

I don't think that the message is for the casual NBA fan. There's a reason the players want the owners to do more. Nothing in this country happens unless the truly rich (not millionaires, but billionaires) decide something needs to be done. These guys have leverage over some of the wealthiest people in America (and the world) by hitting them in their pocket books. If they can get them to lobby for police reform across the country, they've got a shot to make real change.

I would not have picked up that the reason they are doing this is to get at Mark Cuban and the wealthy owners to make them influence policing policy.

The division will continue unfortunately. I'm one of those idiots who thinks maybe don't resist arrest or if you do, be at your peril. While we are reading the minds of players and guessing why they are doing this, I'll read the mind of a cop who was probably flipping out realizing he may have to shoot a black man in this time we are in. I don't get why it's impossible he was fearing for his life.

[Wilber85]

If black lives matter to these celebrities they should be telling them to not resist arrest and to call them or put a non profit in place to help with legal fees

[Revived]

I think by having this shoved down our throat more and more it will actually have the opposite effect and people will may feel this all to be nothing more than a political stunt. Casual fans watching sports are aware of the issue. However these fans aren’t usually cops and they don’t have the ability to make everything right in one day or one week or one month.

Someone on the GB brought up a good point but why did the NBA players not boycott when Travon Martin and Michael Brown were killed? Is it because it was the Democratic Party in power with presidency then?

If you really start looking into it, many people don’t care that Black people are being killed, their simply using the opportunity to push their favorite political party forward.

[bigfoot]

NBA owners have been very supportive of BLM. I am not a fan of NBA owners as a general rule, but they're being placed in a ridiculous situation, due to some misguided and poorly informed NBA players. Lebron and co. are asking something that owners cannot really deliver: reform, actual changes. They're targeting the wrong set of people. The entire wealth of owners is not going to change anything in the next month or so. It's pure fantasy.

Woj is reporting that there's optimism among players that the season will continue ... I think after a night of reflection and letting things calm down, I think players realize the limitation of what they can do. And it's back to business.

Sure it won't make a change in one month and I think the players are smart enough to know it won't. But ...what the Koch brothers did was invest their hundreds of millions of dollars in elections to influence state and local governments. Those local politicians then were able to redistrict their states to form advantageous boundaries at the U.S. level. Voting for Biden doesn't solve the police reform issue. Changing the makeup of local and state governments, one-at-time, is what will make the desired reforms. It is a slow, long, deliberate game the Koch brothers have been playing for many, many years.

Koch brothers are (allegedly) corrupt with questionable business practices. Do you think that's the right model for the NBA?

Absolutely. Until the Supreme Court rules that corporations can not make unlimited donations to PACs why would be it be questionable. There are no laws being broken. It's absurd to fight a battle with both hands tied behind your back. A major difference would be the PAC supports candidates on both sides of the aisle whose platform agrees with its standings on reforms in criminal justice, racial justice, and policing. The Koch brother supported only one side.

[bigfoot]

And you are the type of cop we would be reading about on the news "End of Watch"

I would rather be killed in the line of duty than murder in the line of duty.

You would rather die at the hands of a life long criminal than go home to your family? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. When do people start holding these idiots accountable for their lifestyle?

Look I agree that these people have criminal backgrounds. However, once they have served their time. It should not be used as justification for the types of brutality we are repeatedly seeing. Once I held the view of blue halos for all law enforcement. That they are all good guys and can do no wrong. When I was dating my wife, she shared an apartment with her girlfriend. We walked into her apartment and her girlfriends' significant other lunges for a pistol on the kitchen table even though he knew us. This paranoid, trigger happy MF is a cop in Virginia. He is racist pile of shat too. I've read articles in the paper about him being let go from a police force for shooting a neighbors dog ... only to get a job on another police force.

These are the types of guys that are causing problems and yet they are held up as upstanding first-line responders. Jacob Blake, who was shot, was held accountable for his lifestyle by serving time. Can you say the same about the majority of bad cops? Especially when police have the unwritten rule about protecting each other against internal investigations. Until good cops, who are supposed to uphold all laws, choose to address the issue of bad cops, we are going to have this problem and hence the need for massive police and criminal justice reform.

[MrMiyagi]

I would rather be killed in the line of duty than murder in the line of duty.

You would rather die at the hands of a life long criminal than go home to your family? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. When do people start holding these idiots accountable for their lifestyle?

Look I agree that these people have criminal backgrounds. However, once they have served their time. It should not be used as justification for the types of brutality we are repeatedly seeing. Once I held the view of blue halos for all law enforcement. That they are all good guys and can do no wrong. When I was dating my wife, she shared an apartment with her girlfriend. We walked into her apartment and her girlfriends' significant other lunges for a pistol on the kitchen table even though he knew us. This paranoid, trigger happy MF is a cop in Virginia. He is racist pile of shat too. I've read articles in the paper about him being let go from a police force for shooting a neighbors dog ... only to get a job on another police force.

These are the types of guys that are causing problems and yet they are held up as upstanding first-line responders. Jacob Blake, who was shot, was held accountable for his lifestyle by serving time. Can you say the same about the majority of bad cops? Especially when police have the unwritten rule about protecting each other against internal investigations. Until good cops, who are supposed to uphold all laws, choose to address the issue of bad cops, we are going to have this problem and hence the need for massive police and criminal justice reform.

I mean, Phoenix PD killed Ryan Whitaker for answering his door at night with his gun in hand because he didn't know who was knocking on his door at night. He was starting to kneel and had his hand up when he got shot. This happened a couple of months ago, but footage is circling the internet again.

Not to mention Ramon Lopez who was restrained on hot blacktop for 6 minutes earlier this month and was declared dead at the hospital. He stole a drink.

Punishment should fit the crime. And just think that Arizona as a state hasn't had someone receive capital punishment in over 6 years.

Makes you think if we have such rare circumstances for executing someone for their crimes, why do the law enforcement officers require such easy access to lethal force? I'm not even saying no cops should have guns. But should every cop really have a gun?