NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs

[musiqsoulchild]

I think you're trying to prove me wrong.

No, I'm trying to get you to stop applying things with a broad brush to everyone instead of the groups they apply to. That is it. Literally that is all. You even said a few posts back that you call bad cops bad cops and good cops good cops, and then here you are again, applying negative traits to all cops.

Again, literally, the only thing I'm saying is speak about the things that need to change and not painting with a broad brush over everyone that doesn't exhibit those traits.

There is no facts - there are only studies.

Okay, what study show cops negative behavior is due to aspiring to be like Dirty Harry. What study shows how many cops turn on their sirens to avoid stoplights. If you have studies behind these things that you seem to believe all cops do, then I'll completely agree if the studies show this is true.

I have arbitrary numbers like 15 percent and 40 percent to show relative size of problem. So we cab have a conversation and advance it forward.

If you are making up numbers to scope the problem, then you aren't scoping the problem are you?

If you have actual numbers please put them out.

My arbitrary numbers are:
15 percent of all cops are racist
40 percent of all cops abuse power

The point is NOT about the percentages. The point is that Abuse of Power is a superset of Racism.

I agree it's not about numbers. It's about grouping what ever number you believe is bad in the bad group, and not applying those traits to whatever the 100-X number is (in this case the 60% of cops by your numbers) which are being grossly maligned.

I have a different barrier/expectation of some professions Doug.

I'll give you some examples of why percentages are often not accurate representations of what people beleive the underlying issues are.


1) Fact: Bernie Madoff. Perception: Hedge Fund Managers are evil.

2) Fact: Lehmann Brothers. Perception: Wall Street is Evil.

3) Fact: A few banks in 2007 caused the foreclosure crisis. Perception: All banks are EVIL.

4) Fact: A few Muslims bombed USA. Perception: Islam is a religion of hate mongers.

5) Fact: A few pedophiles in the Catholic Clergy. Perception: Catholic priests are vile.

The list is endless.

The point here being...that we place so much implicit faith in some institutions like Banks, Finanical Markets, Religion, Schools etcetera that even a small minority of bad actors will sway the reality.

Now imagine this applied to the Criminal Justive and Policing systems in this country.

It's the sanctity of these institutions. And the power they have on our daily lives. And the damage they can do if they abuse that power.

That's why Police rot is systemic and needs to be overhauled completely.

[FecesOfDeath]

Now if it was a car full of White women do you think the police would’ve acted that way?

Women, probably not. Men, very possible.

There are sh*tty cops out there. You can find countless incidents of white guys getting shot by the cops in eerily similar circumstances to the high-profile cases that get publicized.

I'm sorry, but this is bull. If it was white people in general, the cops are NOT reacting that way. Period. The cognitive dissonance is real.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

13% of the population commits 50% of the country's murders and robberies. A behavior based on statistical analysis.

It's possible that underreported and unsolved murders and robberies by other demographics could skew the data if these instances are in a large volume. It's also possible that lawyers are more likely to reach plea agreements than go to trial for a certain demographic, which could also skew the data if these instances are in a large volume. However, this is the data we have. Is this systemic racism or statistical racism?

Is there a culture issue that glorifies criminality and thug behavior over staying straight and pursuing higher education? Do some communities of a certain demographic throw huge parties for those who just got out of prison but not do the same for those who just received a college or postgraduate degree?

[TheStig]

Read on Twitter

Holy$hit! That is crazy. I can't believe he is charge of running the police department in any city, let alone such a diverse one like Kenosha. Those statements are just very wrong on every level.

[moorhosj]

You have literally said that if you choose to be in a group, then it is okay to discriminate against that group. So again, if its Muslims, and people choose to be Muslim, is it okay to discriminate against them? I sure hope the answer is no.

I never said anything of the sort. I said that an adult choosing to join a professional group with a uniform they can remove is not the same as being born with a certain skin color. You are the one trying to put moral stance on it (whether discriminating is ok or not), I'm saying that the comparison itself is fundamentally flawed.

[dougthonus]

I have a different barrier/expectation of some professions Doug.

I'll give you some examples of why percentages are often not accurate representations of what people beleive the underlying issues are.


1) Fact: Bernie Madoff. Perception: Hedge Fund Managers are evil.

2) Fact: Lehmann Brothers. Perception: Wall Street is Evil.

3) Fact: A few banks in 2007 caused the foreclosure crisis. Perception: All banks are EVIL.

4) Fact: A few Muslims bombed USA. Perception: Islam is a religion of hate mongers.

5) Fact: A few pedophiles in the Catholic Clergy. Perception: Catholic priests are vile.

The list is endless.

The point here being...that we place so much implicit faith in some institutions like Banks, Finanical Markets, Religion, Schools etcetera that even a small minority of bad actors will sway the reality.

Now imagine this applied to the Criminal Justive and Policing systems in this country.

It's the sanctity of these institutions. And the power they have on our daily lives. And the damage they can do if they abuse that power.

That's why Police rot is systemic and needs to be overhauled completely.

Nothing with your last two lines means grouping innocent people in with the bad people makes sense. That is the point.

Again, i'll bring up the Muslim example, fact, there are muslim terrorists. Perception: Muslims are evil.

Terrorists have a disproportionately large affect on society, so I guess by your logic it is okay to discriminate against all Muslims.

Well it isn't. It isn't okay to lump innocents in with the guilty just because it's easier and the guilty had a large impact on you.

[Andi Obst]

Read the Player's Tribune article by Sterling Brown. If you can't tell what the difference between this and the China situation is for the players, you just actively don't want to understand it.

And then the more comprehensive bodycam video surfaced, which, while not excusing all of the LEOs' behaviors, showed that Mr. Floyd could have more likely died from the fentanyl overdose than from the knee on the back of his neck. A guy who claimed to be claustrophobic while also being the driver of a mid-sized SUV. A guy who said that he couldn't breathe long before he even had a knee on the back of his neck. A guy with the size of an NFL tight end or linebacker who was extremely high but still resisting arrest. A guy whose record includes helping rob a pregnant woman at gunpoint, and whose record would've shown up on every squad car's computer if they had his identification.

I don't know how this collection of excuses for a cop to kneel on someone's neck for more than 8 minutes is a response to my post (?)

[musiqsoulchild]

Read on Twitter

Holy$hit! That is crazy. I can't believe he is charge of running the police department in any city, let alone such a diverse one like Kenosha. Those statements are just very wrong on every level.

He is not alone. At least 40-50 percent of the country think like this.

In 2020.

[moorhosj]

Is there a culture issue that glorifies criminality and thug behavior over staying straight and pursuing higher education? Do some communities of a certain demographic throw huge parties for those who just got out of prison but not do the same for those who just received a college or postgraduate degree?

Is there? Do they? just say what you want to say.

[jc23]

Read on Twitter

Holy$hit! That is crazy. I can't believe he is charge of running the police department in any city, let alone such a diverse one like Kenosha. Those statements are just very wrong on every level.

dat fella is part of the problem, just like the quotes from some blm protesters that speak in support of the looting and rioting. Difference being "that" gentlemen has real power behind him.

[musiqsoulchild]

I have a different barrier/expectation of some professions Doug.

I'll give you some examples of why percentages are often not accurate representations of what people beleive the underlying issues are.


1) Fact: Bernie Madoff. Perception: Hedge Fund Managers are evil.

2) Fact: Lehmann Brothers. Perception: Wall Street is Evil.

3) Fact: A few banks in 2007 caused the foreclosure crisis. Perception: All banks are EVIL.

4) Fact: A few Muslims bombed USA. Perception: Islam is a religion of hate mongers.

5) Fact: A few pedophiles in the Catholic Clergy. Perception: Catholic priests are vile.

The list is endless.

The point here being...that we place so much implicit faith in some institutions like Banks, Finanical Markets, Religion, Schools etcetera that even a small minority of bad actors will sway the reality.

Now imagine this applied to the Criminal Justive and Policing systems in this country.

It's the sanctity of these institutions. And the power they have on our daily lives. And the damage they can do if they abuse that power.

That's why Police rot is systemic and needs to be overhauled completely.

Nothing with your last two lines means grouping innocent people in with the bad people makes sense. That is the point.

Again, i'll bring up the Muslim example, fact, there are muslim terrorists. Perception: Muslims are evil.

Terrorists have a disproportionately large affect on society, so I guess by your logic it is okay to discriminate against all Muslims.

Well it isn't. It isn't okay to lump innocents in with the guilty just because it's easier and the guilty had a large impact on you.

Ironically, I had the Muslim example in my post.

However, there is no standard of behavior for a Muslim.

There is first a Catholic Clergy member. Being Islanic is NOT a profession.

Clergy and Cops are. As are Bankers and Hedge Fund Managers.

[musiqsoulchild]

I have a different barrier/expectation of some professions Doug.

I'll give you some examples of why percentages are often not accurate representations of what people beleive the underlying issues are.


1) Fact: Bernie Madoff. Perception: Hedge Fund Managers are evil.

2) Fact: Lehmann Brothers. Perception: Wall Street is Evil.

3) Fact: A few banks in 2007 caused the foreclosure crisis. Perception: All banks are EVIL.

4) Fact: A few Muslims bombed USA. Perception: Islam is a religion of hate mongers.

5) Fact: A few pedophiles in the Catholic Clergy. Perception: Catholic priests are vile.

The list is endless.

The point here being...that we place so much implicit faith in some institutions like Banks, Finanical Markets, Religion, Schools etcetera that even a small minority of bad actors will sway the reality.

Now imagine this applied to the Criminal Justive and Policing systems in this country.

It's the sanctity of these institutions. And the power they have on our daily lives. And the damage they can do if they abuse that power.

That's why Police rot is systemic and needs to be overhauled completely.

Nothing with your last two lines means grouping innocent people in with the bad people makes sense. That is the point.

Again, i'll bring up the Muslim example, fact, there are muslim terrorists. Perception: Muslims are evil.

Terrorists have a disproportionately large affect on society, so I guess by your logic it is okay to discriminate against all Muslims.

Well it isn't. It isn't okay to lump innocents in with the guilty just because it's easier and the guilty had a large impact on you.

Ironically, I had the Muslim example in my post.

However, there is no standard of behavior for a Muslim.

There is one though for a Catholic Clergy member. Being Muslim is NOT a profession.

In contrast, Cops are. As are Bankers, Clergy and Hedge Fund Managers.

[FecesOfDeath]

I would also think that a LEO would initially respond differently to man looking like Steve Urkel compared to one looking like Edward Norton's character in American History X.

[musiqsoulchild]

Women, probably not. Men, very possible.

There are sh*tty cops out there. You can find countless incidents of white guys getting shot by the cops in eerily similar circumstances to the high-profile cases that get publicized.

I'm sorry, but this is bull. If it was white people in general, the cops are NOT reacting that way. Period. The cognitive dissonance is real.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

13% of the population commits 50% of the country's murders and robberies. A behavior based on statistical analysis.

It's possible that underreported and unsolved murders and robberies by other demographics could skew the data if these instances are in a large volume. It's also possible that lawyers are more likely to reach plea agreements than go to trial for a certain demographic, which could also skew the data if these instances are in a large volume. However, this is the data we have. Is this systemic racism or statistical racism?

Is there a culture issue that glorifies criminality and thug behavior over staying straight and pursuing higher education? Do some communities of a certain demographic throw huge parties for those who just got out of prison but not do the same for those who just received a college or postgraduate degree?

This is a very childish argument you are making.

Please read about why there is an incentive to incarcerate Black men.

And why recidivism exists.

[musiqsoulchild]

I would also think that a LEO would initially respond differently to man looking like Steve Urkel compared to one looking like Edward Norton's character in American History X.

You dont have to think.

You can see it in Charlottesville. And you can see it with the Kenosha PD in how they completely dropped the ball on 17 year old Ed Norton with a giant gun.

[Hangtime84]

Read on Twitter

Holy$hit! That is crazy. I can't believe he is charge of running the police department in any city, let alone such a diverse one like Kenosha. Those statements are just very wrong on every level.

I saw this and do not think it's racism. But I will say this man genuinely wants to help, but his profession has allowed him the opportunity to see some of the worst people in society and has distorted his view.

Giving his response was mainly about how young children are given poor parental examples. A couple of ideas showing children future and people who they can relate to what life after 18 can be, provide programs at schools where teamwork is required, and bring more social workers into the schools cause some of the children just need real therapy.

[musiqsoulchild]

Read on Twitter

Holy$hit! That is crazy. I can't believe he is charge of running the police department in any city, let alone such a diverse one like Kenosha. Those statements are just very wrong on every level.

I saw this and do not think it's racism. But I will say this man genuinely wants to help, but his profession has allowed him the opportunity to see some of the worst people in society and has distorted his view.

I dont think he is racist.

But I do think he is showing us how good cops also think.

That in a moment of emotional weakness the way they think about Law and Order comes out into the open.

[jc23]

quitting really wouldn't of solved anything unless all the major nba hitters got together after and became a leading voice in the blm movement. I think the short time to show support was a beneficial move and any decision in the moment was obviously not going to be the most clear headed one.

Curious what happens if there is another cop shooting situation. Even the most optimistic person knows these changes will take a long time.

[CBS7]

Again, i'll bring up the Muslim example, fact, there are muslim terrorists. Perception: Muslims are evil.

Terrorists have a disproportionately large affect on society, so I guess by your logic it is okay to discriminate against all Muslims.

Well it isn't. It isn't okay to lump innocents in with the guilty just because it's easier and the guilty had a large impact on you.

I understand you aren't arguing with me but I gotta say again, its different because "muslim" or "Islam" is not a concrete organization unlike PDs. And when a Muslim commits an undeniably evil and vile act, Muslims everywhere speak out against it. If they were part of a Muslim organization (at least a Western one), it is unlikely that that organization would scramble to defend the person. If they did, that organization could correctly be considered evil on some level.

When a police officer commits an evil and vile act, the PD seems to scramble to cover it up, defend the person, make excuses, justify the act, and let them off easily.

People are unhappy that it is just so hard to bring the bad cops to justice because the system is designed to protect them.

[League Circles]

It's like me giving an example of something negative a tattoo'd person did or a Muslim did, and saying "see, I guess they're all this way"

Whenever a person who identifies as a Muslim commits an act of terror, they are pretty much universally condemned by Muslims across social media and in reality. Especially Western Muslims.

Whenever a cop commits an act of extreme police brutality, their organization attempts to cover their asses, make excuses for them, is reluctant to punish them, and attempts to get them off easier.

I don't think ACAB. I think there are only a handful of truly evil, violent cops. However the fact that the entire organization seems to rally to protect those evil violent cops is a huge issue, and rots it to its core.

Islam/Muslims is/are not a concrete organization. Neither are tattooed people. Police forces are.

Regarding the first bolded.....except when they are prosecuted and convicted of their crimes against civilians, which happens, so no, not "whenever".

Regarding your last point, no, police forces are not at all a concrete organization.

The only reason that so many people cannot help themselves but to morally evaluate people based on group identity is because it's a convenient categorisation mechanism in our psychology. It's not warranted on a moral level and it's severely logically flawed. It's also completely unnecessary for any practical purposes.

[musiqsoulchild]

It's like me giving an example of something negative a tattoo'd person did or a Muslim did, and saying "see, I guess they're all this way"

Whenever a person who identifies as a Muslim commits an act of terror, they are pretty much universally condemned by Muslims across social media and in reality. Especially Western Muslims.

Whenever a cop commits an act of extreme police brutality, their organization attempts to cover their asses, make excuses for them, is reluctant to punish them, and attempts to get them off easier.

I don't think ACAB. I think there are only a handful of truly evil, violent cops. However the fact that the entire organization seems to rally to protect those evil violent cops is a huge issue, and rots it to its core.

Islam/Muslims is/are not a concrete organization. Neither are tattooed people. Police forces are.

Regarding the first bolded.....except when they are prosecuted and convicted of their crimes against civilians, which happens, so no, not "whenever".

Regarding your last point, no, police forces are not at all a concrete organization.

The only reason that so many people cannot help themselves but to morally evaluate people based on group identity is because it's a convenient categorisation mechanism in our psychology. It's not warranted on a moral level and it's severely logically flawed. It's also completely unnecessary for any practical purposes.

When I see a police uniform that automatically signals to be that I am dealing with a Cop.

Cops have hiring practices , internal affairs, budgets, HR, Unions, Pensions and Lobbying groups.

What am I missing?

How is that not a concrete institution?