2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th!

[Bulldog23]

I don’t view this as a weak draft. I think this is a young draft group with less information available to evaluate.

[Jvaughn]

Haven't seen this brought up at all but anyone know the deal with Killian Hayes's bundesliga contract? He has 2 years left so does that mean we're going to have to wait 2 years for this guy?

I can't find the link now, but I'm also 100% sure that contract had an NBA out clause in it. If not the buyout amount wasn't super high. There shouldn't be any issue with him coming over immediately.

[Ugly Duckling]

I don’t view this as a weak draft. I think this is a young draft group with less information available to evaluate.

I've only scouted the projected top 15-20 or so, who're pretty underwhelming.There'll likely be some good players who aren't being touted right now

[Ugly Duckling]

Nesmith is the only player I'd trade down for based on the current mocks. I'd consider 11 and Derrick White from San Antonio for it

[Andi Obst]

Nesmith is the only player I'd trade down for based on the current mocks. I'd consider 11 and Derrick White from San Antonio for it

The Spurs aren't doing that, not even close. Derrick White was phenomenal in the bubble, showed some real improvement.

[King Ken]

Just curious, what do you think about #4+OPJ for #6 assuming he opts in early

[Andi Obst]

Just curious, what do you think about #4+OPJ for #6 assuming he opts in early

Why would we trade down and give up an actual good player on top? He's overpaid and injury-prone, I get it, but OPJ can clearly play and we have 0 wings. He'll be expiring too. Not a chance.

[bad knees]

The more I look at Hayes and the others, the more I am convinced that he should be the Bulls' choice, if he is there at 4. I say "if he is there at 4" because Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer just named Hayes as # 1 on his Big Board, and with good reason. Here's the link to The Ringer article: https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

The most important player on any NBA roster is a lead guard/wing who can create for himself at all three levels, can run an offense, can pass and create for others, and play at least passable defense. Every good team has at least one of these players; the really good ones have two or more. The Bulls currently have none. I like LaVine, but his passing, defense and end-of-game decisionmaking make it extremely unlikely that he will grow into this role. Coby has potential, but he will have to improve his passing and decisionmaking significantly. Maybe that happens, maybe it won't.

Hayes is the one player in this draft who has best demonstrated that he has a decent chance of growing into such a lead guard. Here is why:

- Good size for the PG position - he's 6'5" tall with a 6'8" wingspan and weighs somewhere around 200 pounds (the numbers vary). He has broad shoulders, and since he just turned 19, he will get significantly stronger as he grows up.

- In his one year at Ulm in Germany, as the lead guard, he has demonstrated that he can score at all three levels. His step-back is beautiful, and he uses it to gain space for 3 pointers as well as in closer. He shot 42% on 3 pointers off the dribble last year, most of which were step-backs. As a comparison, Harden shot 37% and Lilliard, who led the NBA, shot 42% on step-back 3's this season. Of course, he is nowhere good as those guys now, but his high percentage - and the beauty of his footwork - provides hope. In addition, he already has shown a nice floater that he uses when he gets closer to basket. He is sneaky athletic - shifty with the ball - and the floater allows him to be effective in close when he is confronted with a shotblocking big.

- He is a gifted passer in the PnR, as well as showing a natural knack for drive and dish passes to open shooters on the wing. Per 36, he averaged 7.8 assists per game. As a comparison, Doncic, in his last year in Europe, averaged 6.6 assists per 36. I am not saying that he's Doncic, but he is a damn good passing point guard.

- He is also a great FT shooter, having shot 88% on 3.9 FT's per game. So he can be trusted at the end of games.

- Defensively, he runs hot and cold, but when he is on, he shows ability both on ball and off. He had 2.1 steals per 36 last season. The key thing is that he tries. As an 18 year old lead guard on a high level team in Europe, that's saying a lot. This should improve as he gets older - many of the draft evaluators say that he will be able to effectively guard both 1's and 2's, and the smaller 3's.

- Of course, he has things that he needs to work on, but all of them appear to be fixable. First, he has been horrible on catch-shoot 3's - 19% this past year. When you watch his film, you can see that this is due to some bad habits in how he prepares his feet and body when the ball is coming to him, plus an odd half step that he takes so that he shoots with one foot in front of the other. Ugh. The good news is that his off-the-dribble and FT percentages show that he is a good, if not very good, shooter. This problem seems eminently fixable to me. Second, he is currently very left hand dominant. This will improve with basic ballhandling drills. Per an article in the Detroit Free Press, he is working with Will Bynum as he prepares for the draft. Bynum will tighten up his ballhandling - that is certain. Third, he needs to improve his decisionmaking - sometimes he tries to make plays that are not there. Did I say that he was 18 this entire past season? This will improve as well. Fourth, he needs to become more of a vocal leader. See my comment about being 18. Here is the article about Bynum and Hayes. https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2020/08/09/detroit-piston-bynum-killian-hayes-nba-draft/3327098001/

- Finally, there is another point that comes out of the article about Bynum training him - Bynum is setting him up with Patrick Beverley and Tony Allen. In other words, he is getting a good dose of Chicago Tough. That sounds good to me.

For me, Hayes, if he is there at 4, will be both BPA and fill the Bulls' greatest need. The experts appear to agree. According to Yahoo's mock draft roundup, Hayes is named as the Bulls' pick by 3 national writers - all of the others under consideration (Ball, Toppin and Avdija) are currently at 2 votes each. https://sports.yahoo.com/2020-nba-mock-draft-roundup-170726844.html

Here is the article that notes Hayes' 3 pt shooting percentage off the dribble and catch/shoot. https://in.nba.com/news/nba-draft-2020-killian-hayes-scouting-report-strengths-weaknesses-and-player-comparison/m71jtfjtighmzh5yepae4tj2

[sco]

Just curious, what do you think about #4+OPJ for #6 assuming he opts in early

Why would we trade down and give up an actual good player on top? He's overpaid an injury-prone, I get it, but OPJ can clearly play and we have 0 wings. He'll be expiring too. Not a chance.

What about #4 + OPJ for Huerter or Hunter?

[Andi Obst]

Just curious, what do you think about #4+OPJ for #6 assuming he opts in early

Why would we trade down and give up an actual good player on top? He's overpaid an injury-prone, I get it, but OPJ can clearly play and we have 0 wings. He'll be expiring too. Not a chance.

What about #4 + OPJ for Huerter or Hunter?

No thanks. I like Huerter quite a bit, but I like our options at 4 more. Not a fan of Hunter. And again, healthy OPJ is actually good.

[King Ken]

Just curious, what do you think about #4+OPJ for #6 assuming he opts in early

Why would we trade down and give up an actual good player on top? He's overpaid an injury-prone, I get it, but OPJ can clearly play and we have 0 wings. He'll be expiring too. Not a chance.

What about #4 + OPJ for Huerter or Hunter?

We aren't trading anyone in our core for anyone in this class. It's the most tired question we tend to get on RealGM. Just curious to know if you wanted to dump Porter Jr. Salary

[sco]

Why would we trade down and give up an actual good player on top? He's overpaid an injury-prone, I get it, but OPJ can clearly play and we have 0 wings. He'll be expiring too. Not a chance.

What about #4 + OPJ for Huerter or Hunter?

We aren't trading anyone in our core for anyone in this class. It's the most tired question we tend to get on RealGM. Just curious to know if you wanted to dump Porter Jr. Salary

I think OPJ is too good to just be a salary dump. And dumping his salary does little for us cap-wise.

[TheSuzerain]

Why would we trade down and give up an actual good player on top? He's overpaid an injury-prone, I get it, but OPJ can clearly play and we have 0 wings. He'll be expiring too. Not a chance.

What about #4 + OPJ for Huerter or Hunter?

We aren't trading anyone in our core for anyone in this class. It's the most tired question we tend to get on RealGM. Just curious to know if you wanted to dump Porter Jr. Salary

You'd be insane to not trade Huerter for that package.

[Fastbrk4brkfast]

The more I look at Hayes and the others, the more I am convinced that he should be the Bulls' choice, if he is there at 4. I say "if he is there at 4" because Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer just named Hayes as # 1 on his Big Board, and with good reason. Here's the link to The Ringer article: https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

The most important player on any NBA roster is a lead guard/wing who can create for himself at all three levels, can run an offense, can pass and create for others, and play at least passable defense. Every good team has at least one of these players; the really good ones have two or more. The Bulls currently have none. I like LaVine, but his passing, defense and end-of-game decisionmaking make it extremely unlikely that he will grow into this role. Coby has potential, but he will have to improve his passing and decisionmaking significantly. Maybe that happens, maybe it won't.

Hayes is the one player in this draft who has best demonstrated that he has a decent chance of growing into such a lead guard. Here is why:

- Good size for the PG position - he's 6'5" tall with a 6'8" wingspan and weighs somewhere around 200 pounds (the numbers vary). He has broad shoulders, and since he just turned 19, he will get significantly stronger as he grows up.

- In his one year at Ulm in Germany, as the lead guard, he has demonstrated that he can score at all three levels. His step-back is beautiful, and he uses it to gain space for 3 pointers as well as in closer. He shot 42% on 3 pointers off the dribble last year, most of which were step-backs. As a comparison, Harden shot 37% and Lilliard, who led the NBA, shot 42% on step-back 3's this season. Of course, he is nowhere good as those guys now, but his high percentage - and the beauty of his footwork - provides hope. In addition, he already has shown a nice floater that he uses when he gets closer to basket. He is sneaky athletic - shifty with the ball - and the floater allows him to be effective in close when he is confronted with a shotblocking big.

- He is a gifted passer in the PnR, as well as showing a natural knack for drive and dish passes to open shooters on the wing. Per 36, he averaged 7.8 assists per game. As a comparison, Doncic, in his last year in Europe, averaged 6.6 assists per 36. I am not saying that he's Doncic, but he is a damn good passing point guard.

- He is also a great FT shooter, having shot 88% on 3.9 FT's per game. So he can be trusted at the end of games.

- Defensively, he runs hot and cold, but when he is on, he shows ability both on ball and off. He had 2.1 steals per 36 last season. The key thing is that he tries. As an 18 year old lead guard on a high level team in Europe, that's saying a lot. This should improve as he gets older - many of the draft evaluators say that he will be able to effectively guard both 1's and 2's, and the smaller 3's.

- Of course, he has things that he needs to work on, but all of them appear to be fixable. First, he has been horrible on catch-shoot 3's - 19% this past year. When you watch his film, you can see that this is due to some bad habits in how he prepares his feet and body when the ball is coming to him, plus an odd half step that he takes so that he shoots with one foot in front of the other. Ugh. The good news is that his off-the-dribble and FT percentages show that he is a good, if not very good, shooter. This problem seems eminently fixable to me. Second, he is currently very left hand dominant. This will improve with basic ballhandling drills. Per an article in the Detroit Free Press, he is working with Will Bynum as he prepares for the draft. Bynum will tighten up his ballhandling - that is certain. Third, he needs to improve his decisionmaking - sometimes he tries to make plays that are not there. Did I say that he was 18 this entire past season? This will improve as well. Fourth, he needs to become more of a vocal leader. See my comment about being 18. Here is the article about Bynum and Hayes. https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2020/08/09/detroit-piston-bynum-killian-hayes-nba-draft/3327098001/

- Finally, there is another point that comes out of the article about Bynum training him - Bynum is setting him up with Patrick Beverley and Tony Allen. In other words, he is getting a good dose of Chicago Tough. That sounds good to me.

For me, Hayes, if he is there at 4, will be both BPA and fill the Bulls' greatest need. The experts appear to agree. According to Yahoo's mock draft roundup, Hayes is named as the Bulls' pick by 3 national writers - all of the others under consideration (Ball, Toppin and Avdija) are currently at 2 votes each. https://sports.yahoo.com/2020-nba-mock-draft-roundup-170726844.html

Here is the article that notes Hayes' 3 pt shooting percentage off the dribble and catch/shoot. https://in.nba.com/news/nba-draft-2020-killian-hayes-scouting-report-strengths-weaknesses-and-player-comparison/m71jtfjtighmzh5yepae4tj2

I wouldn't be mad if the Bulls took Hayes. And in fact I think he's the most likely outcome of this draft for us. He seems like the kind of guy I imagine AK & Everett going for. We'll see if that's true.

It does seem like people are going a bit nuts off a 10 game sample size. And a tournament, it wasn't even league play. That 39% from 3 is pretty suspect and as you said he has struggled with catch & shoot. Glad you brought that up because people seem to assume Hayes is obviously a better shooter than Ball when I don't think that's been established at all.

[kodo]

Bulls specifically got OPJ to hold cap space until the actual FA class of '21, and that's also why they signed Thad & Sato. It's not an original plan, but like most teams they've planned their cap around '21.

The Bulls won't have any interest in cap space in 2020 where the best realistic FA that will change teams is Gallinari. FVV may move from Toronto, but I can't see Chicago being on his short list. Other than Gallo there's Harrell, Joe Harris, and Bertrans topping the list of this FA class. Chicago won't have interest in any of them IMO. Harris is the only fit and he'll be 29 next season.

That's all an assumption for now because the FO that set this up got cleaned out, but I'd be surprised if our VP decides to spend more on this core which he may not even like. I think he'd be looking forward to '21 and a chance to clean house.

[Pax for Prez]

More information that the Warriors would not be selecting C Wiseman at # 2.

"Believe it or not, the Warriors are actually higher on Southern Cal’s (Onyeka) Okongwu than James Wiseman," he wrote. "If they end up taking a big man in the top five, it’ll almost definitely be the 6-foot-9 Okongwu. His game is well-suited for the Warriors’ style.

"Unlike Wiseman, Okongwu can shuttle between multiple positions with ease."

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/nba-rumors-warriors-not-high-james-wiseman-wont-draft-him-no-2?fbclid=IwAR3jibxMwp-g8PJs77W_jm18qVO9CxPHR3a1RCy_NATKATSVRetx7Fq1mXw

[Jcool0]

If you are going off of what AK is looking for then they wont be picking Hayes. He has talked about adding talent and its up to the coaches to maximize it. I just don't see Hayes having the upside the Bulls are looking for. Anthony Edwards would be a lock but he wont be around by #4.

[bad knees]

The more I look at Hayes and the others, the more I am convinced that he should be the Bulls' choice, if he is there at 4. I say "if he is there at 4" because Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer just named Hayes as # 1 on his Big Board, and with good reason. Here's the link to The Ringer article: https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

The most important player on any NBA roster is a lead guard/wing who can create for himself at all three levels, can run an offense, can pass and create for others, and play at least passable defense. Every good team has at least one of these players; the really good ones have two or more. The Bulls currently have none. I like LaVine, but his passing, defense and end-of-game decisionmaking make it extremely unlikely that he will grow into this role. Coby has potential, but he will have to improve his passing and decisionmaking significantly. Maybe that happens, maybe it won't.

Hayes is the one player in this draft who has best demonstrated that he has a decent chance of growing into such a lead guard. Here is why:

- Good size for the PG position - he's 6'5" tall with a 6'8" wingspan and weighs somewhere around 200 pounds (the numbers vary). He has broad shoulders, and since he just turned 19, he will get significantly stronger as he grows up.

- In his one year at Ulm in Germany, as the lead guard, he has demonstrated that he can score at all three levels. His step-back is beautiful, and he uses it to gain space for 3 pointers as well as in closer. He shot 42% on 3 pointers off the dribble last year, most of which were step-backs. As a comparison, Harden shot 37% and Lilliard, who led the NBA, shot 42% on step-back 3's this season. Of course, he is nowhere good as those guys now, but his high percentage - and the beauty of his footwork - provides hope. In addition, he already has shown a nice floater that he uses when he gets closer to basket. He is sneaky athletic - shifty with the ball - and the floater allows him to be effective in close when he is confronted with a shotblocking big.

- He is a gifted passer in the PnR, as well as showing a natural knack for drive and dish passes to open shooters on the wing. Per 36, he averaged 7.8 assists per game. As a comparison, Doncic, in his last year in Europe, averaged 6.6 assists per 36. I am not saying that he's Doncic, but he is a damn good passing point guard.

- He is also a great FT shooter, having shot 88% on 3.9 FT's per game. So he can be trusted at the end of games.

- Defensively, he runs hot and cold, but when he is on, he shows ability both on ball and off. He had 2.1 steals per 36 last season. The key thing is that he tries. As an 18 year old lead guard on a high level team in Europe, that's saying a lot. This should improve as he gets older - many of the draft evaluators say that he will be able to effectively guard both 1's and 2's, and the smaller 3's.

- Of course, he has things that he needs to work on, but all of them appear to be fixable. First, he has been horrible on catch-shoot 3's - 19% this past year. When you watch his film, you can see that this is due to some bad habits in how he prepares his feet and body when the ball is coming to him, plus an odd half step that he takes so that he shoots with one foot in front of the other. Ugh. The good news is that his off-the-dribble and FT percentages show that he is a good, if not very good, shooter. This problem seems eminently fixable to me. Second, he is currently very left hand dominant. This will improve with basic ballhandling drills. Per an article in the Detroit Free Press, he is working with Will Bynum as he prepares for the draft. Bynum will tighten up his ballhandling - that is certain. Third, he needs to improve his decisionmaking - sometimes he tries to make plays that are not there. Did I say that he was 18 this entire past season? This will improve as well. Fourth, he needs to become more of a vocal leader. See my comment about being 18. Here is the article about Bynum and Hayes. https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2020/08/09/detroit-piston-bynum-killian-hayes-nba-draft/3327098001/

- Finally, there is another point that comes out of the article about Bynum training him - Bynum is setting him up with Patrick Beverley and Tony Allen. In other words, he is getting a good dose of Chicago Tough. That sounds good to me.

For me, Hayes, if he is there at 4, will be both BPA and fill the Bulls' greatest need. The experts appear to agree. According to Yahoo's mock draft roundup, Hayes is named as the Bulls' pick by 3 national writers - all of the others under consideration (Ball, Toppin and Avdija) are currently at 2 votes each. https://sports.yahoo.com/2020-nba-mock-draft-roundup-170726844.html

Here is the article that notes Hayes' 3 pt shooting percentage off the dribble and catch/shoot. https://in.nba.com/news/nba-draft-2020-killian-hayes-scouting-report-strengths-weaknesses-and-player-comparison/m71jtfjtighmzh5yepae4tj2

I wouldn't be mad if the Bulls took Hayes. And in fact I think he's the most likely outcome of this draft for us. He seems like the kind of guy I imagine AK & Everett going for. We'll see if that's true.

It does seem like people are going a bit nuts off a 10 game sample size. And a tournament, it wasn't even league play. That 39% from 3 is pretty suspect and as you said he has struggled with catch & shoot. Glad you brought that up because people seem to assume Hayes is obviously a better shooter than Ball when I don't think that's been established at all.

Thanks. I think my stats are from his entire season with ULM, during which he participated in Eurocup (10 games), Germany Cup (3 games), and Germany BBL (20 games). During the overall season, he shot 29.4% on 3's, which reflected 42% off the dribble and 20% catch and shoot. The 39% is from the Eurocup, I think. In any event, it seems pretty clear to me that he is a better shooter than Ball, by a long shot. Ball's shot mechanics are weird and suggest unreliability. Hayes' step-back form is really a thing of beauty. Plus he is an 88% free throw shooter. Hayes' numbers are substantially better than Ball's in every shooting measurement.

[bad knees]

If you are going off of what AK is looking for then they wont be picking Hayes. He has talked about adding talent and its up to the coaches to maximize it. I just don't see Hayes having the upside the Bulls are looking for. Anthony Edwards would be a lock but he wont be around by #4.

I think you are confusing athleticism and talent. Edwards has the former; Hayes has the latter.

[cjbulls]

More information that the Warriors would not be selecting C Wiseman at # 2.

"Believe it or not, the Warriors are actually higher on Southern Cal’s (Onyeka) Okongwu than James Wiseman," he wrote. "If they end up taking a big man in the top five, it’ll almost definitely be the 6-foot-9 Okongwu. His game is well-suited for the Warriors’ style.

"Unlike Wiseman, Okongwu can shuttle between multiple positions with ease."

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/nba-rumors-warriors-not-high-james-wiseman-wont-draft-him-no-2?fbclid=IwAR3jibxMwp-g8PJs77W_jm18qVO9CxPHR3a1RCy_NATKATSVRetx7Fq1mXw

Can’t see Wolves taking him so does Charlotte? I really don’t want the bulls to be in a position where Ball or Wiseman are on the board and there is pressure to take them for the name value.