Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory

[fendilim]

I wouldn't say Gobert is a top 15-20 player, but I am sure some GMs would make that argument. The difference between Isaac and Gobert is the position, and the versatility. Centers are not valuable in today's game, which is what impacts Gobert's value
Isaac is menace on the ball, and in team defense. Guard almost anybody. You can't put Gobert on a Doncic.

Now i have no idea how he comes back. Quickness is part of his skill. This could be the last of his injuries, or he could go the way of Jabari Parker. I also have no idea how Okeke comes back. Or Durant for that matter.

But I do know we shouldn't sell low on the highest ceiling player we have had in a while. And 1st in this crappy draft is selling low.

Dont really have much of a problem with Isaac tbh. I dont think it will be a problem like Jabari. Jabari had multiple ACL/MCL injuries if I’m not mistaken. Isaac’s is different injuries every time. I understand the lost of athleticism and all. But I definitely think Isaac can still succeed. Jabari’s game relies so much on his athleticism and he is a really bad player on the defensive end.

Isaac really just feeds off his teammates on offense and on defense I think playing against PF or Cs wont really require more athleticism, just think he wont be a versatile defender anymore.

[MagicStarwipe]

AG out for game 5. Anybody else getting the feeling like we've seen him play his last game for the Magic?

[Def Swami]

Who is anybody going to take at the top of this draft that has the upside of a healthy JI?

If JI could get to about 18 ppg on 2+ made 3s on good efficiency, while maintaining his defensive intensity, we are talking about a top 15 player in this league.

The likelihood of that happening is far greater than Edwards fixing every aspect of his game, or Ball fixing his shot and learning how to play defense.

When you are talking about a top 15 player contracts don't matter, as the excess value is far higher than the max, and especially whatever discounted extension JI would sign.

We would have to be crazy to give JI away for one of these dogs with fleas, knowing full well that JI may not return to what he was.

Couple things
A healthy JI would be better than most of the players in the draft..... But there's no such thing. He was hurt in HS, and hurt every year in the pros. His body can't seem to handle the game.
It's like saying Brandon Roy is better than anyone in the 2011 draft... Blazers would be stupid to trade his upside!
Isaac is turning into the same thing. Missed 60% of all games in the first 4 years of his career with different injuries, with a serious knee injury and a foot injury. Even he returns, not only will he rusty and a year list from his development, but you also have zero guarantee that his knee\leg will be the same or that he will be the same physically. He could just add easily come back a sleep if the guy we saw it the bubble for those 2 games

Also, JI had shown next to nothing when it comes self creating offense. All his points come from catch and shoot 3s, well timed cuts, and fast breaks. While those are great assets, he's not going to be s guy that puts the offense in his back and wind you the game. He's just an average offensive player and hasn't shown he's anything more than that. Also, 18ppg isn't a to 15 player in the game. Rudy gobert had been the best rim protector in the game for a few yesterday now and averaged 15ppg and no one talks about him as a top 15 player, why? because he's not much of a factor in offense. He's getting his points, but it's mostly done on put backs and ready dunks from good passes by his guards. And that's if Isaac can ever even get to 18. Hes only gone over 20pts 5 times in 3 years... Kinda hard to average 18 when you can rarely ever get 20


I know people here love Isaac like he's the second coming of Hakeem olajuwan or something, but at some point people need to realize he's more likely to Brandon Roy

Brandon Roy was a unique case of a degenerative joint problem.

Roy began experiencing trouble in 2008 when he had to get a piece of cartilage removed from his left knee. By the middle of the next season, he suffered bone bruise and meniscus tear in his right knee and underwent surgery.

Sadly, Roy’s knees wore down to the point where there was no cartilage left. The painful bone-on-bone condition prevented him from playing to his capabilities. Six surgeries and no cartilage later, Roy retired from the NBA when his doctor told him he may not be able to walk if he continued playing.

Isaac had a bone bruise and acute ACL tear. This isn't some long-standing issue. And it's not a death sentence to a career. Zach Lavine and Kristaps Porzingis are the most recent examples of players recovering from ACL injuries. ACL recovery has changed in the 2010's. He'll recover athletically.

If you believe there's truly a player with all-NBA potential in the draft that can carry an offense, then sure. Go ahead and trade Isaac. I personally don't believe that player exists. I don't believe many scouts or front office execs believe that. There are a bunch of good role players in the draft, and trading one good, known role player for one that's unknown isn't that appealing, IMHO.

[The Effect]

I wouldn't say Gobert is a top 15-20 player, but I am sure some GMs would make that argument. The difference between Isaac and Gobert is the position, and the versatility. Centers are not valuable in today's game, which is what impacts Gobert's value
Isaac is menace on the ball, and in team defense. Guard almost anybody. You can't put Gobert on a Doncic.

Now i have no idea how he comes back. Quickness is part of his skill. This could be the last of his injuries, or he could go the way of Jabari Parker. I also have no idea how Okeke comes back. Or Durant for that matter.

But I do know we shouldn't sell low on the highest ceiling player we have had in a while. And 1st in this crappy draft is selling low.

gorbert was back to back defensive player of the year, make any argument you want claiming JI is more vaulable, but gorbet IS the best defender in the league

And yeah, isaac is now having multiple injuries on his legs, which will very likely hinder his quickness, lateral movement and explosiveness, all things that make him a great defender, and thats not even mentioning the mental aspect of coming back from injuries. It could be a good 2 years before hes back to normal, if he ever gets there.

You bring up a good point, he could easily become the new jabari. Parker as hurt as a rookie and it took him basically 2 years to regain his college form and become a 20ppg player (hes clearly an offensive player where as JI is defensive), then what happened, injuries returned again and again and he became a shell of his old self.
considering his injury history, how can you possibly build around JI with that injury history knowing his body cant hold up??

Oh and 1st in any draft is more vaulable than an injury prone player who is still just a POTENTIALLY great player. Upside means nothing on the bench
Give me anthony edwards over JI all day long

[Orlando_Pride]

AG out for game 5. Anybody else getting the feeling like we've seen him play his last game for the Magic?

Yes, but I feel we have been saying this may be the last version of this team for a few season now so..who knows. I though last year with Vuc and TRoss free agency it was a done deal they were gone.

[fendilim]

I wouldn't say Gobert is a top 15-20 player, but I am sure some GMs would make that argument. The difference between Isaac and Gobert is the position, and the versatility. Centers are not valuable in today's game, which is what impacts Gobert's value
Isaac is menace on the ball, and in team defense. Guard almost anybody. You can't put Gobert on a Doncic.

Now i have no idea how he comes back. Quickness is part of his skill. This could be the last of his injuries, or he could go the way of Jabari Parker. I also have no idea how Okeke comes back. Or Durant for that matter.

But I do know we shouldn't sell low on the highest ceiling player we have had in a while. And 1st in this crappy draft is selling low.

gorbert was back to back defensive player of the year, make any argument you want claiming JI is more vaulable, but gorbet IS the best defender in the league

And yeah, isaac is now having multiple injuries on his legs, which will very likely hinder his quickness, lateral movement and explosiveness, all things that make him a great defender, and thats not even mentioning the mental aspect of coming back from injuries. It could be a good 2 years before hes back to normal, if he ever gets there.

You bring up a good point, he could easily become the new jabari. Parker as hurt as a rookie and it took him basically 2 years to regain his college form and become a 20ppg player (hes clearly an offensive player where as JI is defensive), then what happened, injuries returned again and again and he became a shell of his old self.
considering his injury history, how can you possibly build around JI with that injury history knowing his body cant hold up??

Oh and 1st in any draft is more vaulable than an injury prone player who is still just a POTENTIALLY great player. Upside means nothing on the bench
Give me anthony edwards over JI all day long

Idk man, But I never thought of building a team around JI.

[drsd]

The Magic need shot creators and shot makers. They lack both.

Amen brother!


..

[drsd]

Long range shooting is nice, but we need scorers, and there's a big difference between the two.

I am afraid I do not agree. Most of the top-20 elite players i the NBA have an elite long-range game. That is were contemporary scoring comes from.



..

[The Effect]

Long range shooting is nice, but we need scorers, and there's a big difference between the two.

I am afraid I do not agree. Most of the top-20 elite players i the NBA have an elite long-range game. That is were contemporary scoring comes from.



..

Would you consider Danny green and elite player\scorer? George hill? Kyle korver?

True that scorers now need deep range, but guys with deep shooting dont automatically equate to great scorers

[Bakomagic]

Long range shooting is nice, but we need scorers, and there's a big difference between the two.

I am afraid I do not agree. Most of the top-20 elite players i the NBA have an elite long-range game. That is were contemporary scoring comes from.



..

What do you mean by elite long range game ?

Shooting 5 or more 3’s a game at 40% or higher with the ability to do it off the dribble and other ways ?

I was looking at the list of top 20 scorers today and was surprised to see that only Tatum, Ingram, Lavine and dame shot over 38% from 3 ! If we use 40% as the line of demarcation than we only have Tatum and Dame.

Maybe it’s more appropriate to use something like 34-35% ad a marker but we’ve had AG shoot that well in a season and our team board would have you thinking he is the worst shooter in the history of basketball (a little hyperbole never hurt anyone).

Not looking to argue that shooting isn’t important, it is very important but I feel drawing fouls is an underrated aspect of a scorer on this board.

I’d rather have a guy who can shoot average from 3
And be Elite at drawing fouls than the other way around.

[KillMonger]

Wow so just got word on Bleacher report app that AG just left the bubble due to his injury and recent events........This might be hyperbole but we very well might have seen AG play his last game with us

[SOUL]

Wow so just got word on Bleacher report app that AG just left the bubble due to his injury and recent events........This might be hyperbole but we very well might have seen AG play his last game with us

F'ing Kyle Lowry

[basketballRob]

AG out for game 5. Anybody else getting the feeling like we've seen him play his last game for the Magic?

I was thinking the same thing. They just don't want to risk an injury or possibly having a bad series. They may already have something in the works. It was odd that Phoenix held Oubre out too. Reports were saying he wanted to play in the bubble.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[The Effect]

I wouldn't say Gobert is a top 15-20 player, but I am sure some GMs would make that argument. The difference between Isaac and Gobert is the position, and the versatility. Centers are not valuable in today's game, which is what impacts Gobert's value
Isaac is menace on the ball, and in team defense. Guard almost anybody. You can't put Gobert on a Doncic.

Now i have no idea how he comes back. Quickness is part of his skill. This could be the last of his injuries, or he could go the way of Jabari Parker. I also have no idea how Okeke comes back. Or Durant for that matter.

But I do know we shouldn't sell low on the highest ceiling player we have had in a while. And 1st in this crappy draft is selling low.

gorbert was back to back defensive player of the year, make any argument you want claiming JI is more vaulable, but gorbet IS the best defender in the league

And yeah, isaac is now having multiple injuries on his legs, which will very likely hinder his quickness, lateral movement and explosiveness, all things that make him a great defender, and thats not even mentioning the mental aspect of coming back from injuries. It could be a good 2 years before hes back to normal, if he ever gets there.

You bring up a good point, he could easily become the new jabari. Parker as hurt as a rookie and it took him basically 2 years to regain his college form and become a 20ppg player (hes clearly an offensive player where as JI is defensive), then what happened, injuries returned again and again and he became a shell of his old self.
considering his injury history, how can you possibly build around JI with that injury history knowing his body cant hold up??

Oh and 1st in any draft is more vaulable than an injury prone player who is still just a POTENTIALLY great player. Upside means nothing on the bench
Give me anthony edwards over JI all day long

Idk man, But I never thought of building a team around JI.

Me either
its no secret that i havent been isaacs biggest fan. I like the guy, but i never bought into this hype that he was gonna be a revolutionary player and one of the top 5 players etc
But on this board, thats how hes talked about. I mean even in this thread, the majority wouldnt trade him, (while injured and out for a while) for the #1 pick in the draft....sorry but you build around #1 picks. I know people think its a weak draft (im not one of those people), but the #1 pick has historically yielded franchise guys. If you look at the last 13 drafts, 9 have become, or looking like, franchise guys (rose, blake, wall, irving, AD,KAT, simmons, Ayton, zion) and of the 4 that didnt, 2 were because of injury (fultz, oden), one is a 20ppg that people expected too much from (wiggins) and one just flat out sucks (bennett). For people to say they wouldnt trade a often injured JI for the #1 is crazy to me, and the only reason they wouldnt do is that they think this team is going to be built around JI

[thelead]

Wow so just got word on Bleacher report app that AG just left the bubble due to his injury and recent events........This might be hyperbole but we very well might have seen AG play his last game with us

F'ing Kyle Lowry

And no one retaliated

[Skin]

Wow so just got word on Bleacher report app that AG just left the bubble due to his injury and recent events........This might be hyperbole but we very well might have seen AG play his last game with us

F'ing Kyle Lowry

And no one retaliated

One of the biggest gripes I have had with this team. Bunch of choir boys. We got no dawgs.

Guys I want to trade for Terry Rozier, Kelly Oubre... we need to get some infectious attitude makers.

Youtube "Terry Rozier fight" results. He's hilarious.

- Terry Rozier vs Eric Bledsoe scuffle (04/24/2018)
- Raptors vs Hornets CRAZY OT ENDING! TERRY ROZIER WANTS TO FIGHTS TERRENCE DAVIS! OT HIghlights
- Terry Rozier vs Brandon Jennings (03/20/2017)
- Brandon Jennings vs Terry Rozier, Brad Stevens gets mad (05/04/2017)
- Terry Rozier Of Charlotte Hornets SLAPS Photographer In Hollywood
- DeMarcus Cousins Shoves Jayson Tatum After Getting Angry At Aron Baynes & Terry Rozier Wanna Fight!
- Terry Rozier misses game tying shot in OT and nearly fights Raptors players
- Joel Embiid And Terry Rozier Scuffle! Celtics vs Sixers Game 4

[jonbob17]

Marcus Morris is a FA

[pepe1991]

F'ing Kyle Lowry

And no one retaliated

One of the biggest gripes I have had with this team. Bunch of choir boys. We got no dawgs.

Guys I want to trade for Terry Rozier, Kelly Oubre... we need to get some infectious attitude makers.

Youtube "Terry Rozier fight" results. He's hilarious.

- Terry Rozier vs Eric Bledsoe scuffle (04/24/2018)
- Raptors vs Hornets CRAZY OT ENDING! TERRY ROZIER WANTS TO FIGHTS TERRENCE DAVIS! OT HIghlights
- Terry Rozier vs Brandon Jennings (03/20/2017)
- Brandon Jennings vs Terry Rozier, Brad Stevens gets mad (05/04/2017)
- Terry Rozier Of Charlotte Hornets SLAPS Photographer In Hollywood
- DeMarcus Cousins Shoves Jayson Tatum After Getting Angry At Aron Baynes & Terry Rozier Wanna Fight!
- Terry Rozier misses game tying shot in OT and nearly fights Raptors players
- Joel Embiid And Terry Rozier Scuffle! Celtics vs Sixers Game 4

So fake tough guy that most players over 6'5 would b*** slap in real fight like a puppy? Overpayed Patric Beverly is execlly what nobody needs. That's why he plays on NBA trash wasteland Hornets.
If you need lockeroom d*** with some actual bad***ery, hire Rasheed or Ben Wallace to do something on bench.

I'm sick and tired of nba tough guys. Most of them can't fight. Every time they try to land a punch it looks like a drunk- nightclub chicks throwing wild haymakers that would miss 10 feet long wall even if stay stand inch away from it.

Since you mentioned Raptors game:
OT : Rozier shoots airball layup over Ibaka
OT: Rozier gets bodyslammed by Ibaka who also stomps him. Doesn't say *** because Ibaka might end him.
OT: Rozier shoots 3 for a tie or win- misses

After a game he goes at smallest Raptors player , while same player had no b*** to say a thing to Ibaka who literally addopted him for whole lengt of that OT

This is like Morris talking trash to Doncic while he is having 43 points, triple double over him. Just say nothing, you are getting embarrassed, shut up and learn how to actually defend.

[SOUL]

Yeah I don't like fake tough guys in the NBA. Most of these dudes won't ever fight. But I think grit/edge is important. Ibaka is someone that just doesn't **** around. Steven Adams doesn't like to fight but he will stand up for his teammates, etc.

Only people with grit/a lot of passion IMO are AG (at times), Fournier (at times), and MCW.

[drsd]

Would you consider Danny green and elite player\scorer? George hill? Kyle korver?

True that scorers now need deep range, but guys with deep shooting dont automatically equate to great scorers

I would love any of those players (in their prime) to be a Magician.

In particular Danny Green. He is this generation's Robert "Big Shot" Horry. Teams win by having such players.