The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

[Rastas]

Embiid and Simmons had a +16.4 net rating on the court together in the the Raptors series last year. That's better than any rotation two man combo the Raptors had in that series.

Glad someone said it. I sick of this Embiid and Simmons can't fit stuff. It takes the blame off the coach and front office and it just isn't true. A competent front office would be able to make it fit.

Then don't expect too much improvement from Simmon's.
+16.4 would be expected as a minimun from any 2 top players like Ben and Joel.
Ben's main weakness is his mindset, and unfortunatly he has conditioned himself to be part of a team that puts Embiid first on offence, so once Joel recieves the ball in his spot Ben and the other 3 players on the floor sort of switch off a little as Joel generally takes his time deciding what to do.
Ben's best games are all when Joel has been sidelined for several games, leading the team to a fast paced extra ball movement style big wins over the likes of full strength Celtics, Lakers and Clippers this season.
This mindset problem of Ben is also associated with his non shooting problem, its all to do with confidence.
I've observed that he does not go into this 'unleashed mode' when Joel misses say 1 game for rest management , only when he knows Joel will be out for a while he turns this switch on inside him.
So basically what I'm saying is Ben has a "mindset problem'' he needs to work on bigtime , however I feel sure his more aggressive Lebron/Magic hybrid mode would be unleashed more often if the team is built more around his strengths.
Imagine Ben with a prolonged Giannis killer mindset.

So if were voting - I vote to split up Joel and Ben.
If management can't or won't deal Joel then I would be ok with Ben being traded for all parties to move on for a chance at a brighter future.
As it is both these 2 top talents restrict each other from reaching their potentials , and management has failed so far to sort out the surrounding pieces - Please do a better job building around 1 of these guys.

[Mik317]

Trading one makes more sense if you get a perfect fit for them. If we can get Booker for Ben or Towns for Embiid...then sure.

but we can't.

Trading either for a collection of worse players who "might" fit better is a lateral move at best ATM. Again I think the most realistic deal is that Wiggins, 2nd pick and stuff trade...and no matter how much I am ready to cape for Wiggins like a clown, that is not a great deal...and even in the most optimistic view (being that Wiggins learns to love basketball again, the prospect is ROTY, and the stuff is great for bench depth), it means a step back or a similar end of second round at best or maybe even CF....but the most likely outcome is the exact same as keeping both and fixing the stuff around them IMO.

Ben frustrates the piss out of me. I will never understand needing to tell dudes to shoot. Just **** do it. However, Embiid, as much as I love the big oaf, can't do it alone and the piece needed to assist him, is not obtainable even for Ben IMO. So despite everything our best option is to keep those two together.

Teams aren't going to give us anything of value for either because they smell blood in the water. These dreams of getting stars for them is not realistic

[DT RAW]

We dont need stars for them. Ben isnt a star other than by name alone.

You guys dont think we can go to chicago and offer them ben simmons for lavine, markannen, and picks? Markennen is the perfect fit next to Embiid and super undervalued right now. There are deals like this available. Say what you want about lavine but the dude can score and shoot it. He's been on a losing team always, put him on a winning team with a good coach who can teach him winning basketball and effort on D and he ends up being a better player than simmons in the long run.

There are plenty of deals to be made where we can get value for simmons. People have to stop looking at simmons as some untouchable top 10 player, because he isnt even close to that.

[Sixerscan]

Embiid and Simmons had a +16.4 net rating on the court together in the the Raptors series last year. That's better than any rotation two man combo the Raptors had in that series.

Glad someone said it. I sick of this Embiid and Simmons can't fit stuff. It takes the blame off the coach and front office and it just isn't true. A competent front office would be able to make it fit.

Then don't expect too much improvement from Simmon's.
+16.4 would be expected as a minimun from any 2 top players like Ben and Joel.
Ben's main weakness is his mindset, and unfortunatly he has conditioned himself to be part of a team that puts Embiid first on offence, so once Joel recieves the ball in his spot Ben and the other 3 players on the floor sort of switch off a little as Joel generally takes his time deciding what to do.
Ben's best games are all when Joel has been sidelined for several games, leading the team to a fast paced extra ball movement style big wins over the likes of full strength Celtics, Lakers and Clippers this season.
This mindset problem of Ben is also associated with his non shooting problem, its all to do with confidence.
I've observed that he does not go into this 'unleashed mode' when Joel misses say 1 game for rest management , only when he knows Joel will be out for a while he turns this switch on inside him.
So basically what I'm saying is Ben has a "mindset problem'' he needs to work on bigtime , however I feel sure his more aggressive Lebron/Magic hybrid mode would be unleashed more often if the team is built more around his strengths.
Imagine Ben with a prolonged Giannis killer mindset.

So if were voting - I vote to split up Joel and Ben.
If management can't or won't deal Joel then I would be ok with Ben being traded for all parties to move on for a chance at a brighter future.
As it is both these 2 top talents restrict each other from reaching their potentials , and management has failed so far to sort out the surrounding pieces - Please do a better job building around 1 of these guys.

As I said it was better than any Raptors duo in that series.

[Sixerscan]

We dont need stars for them. Ben isnt a star other than by name alone.

You guys dont think we can go to chicago and offer them ben simmons for lavine, markannen, and picks? Markennen is the perfect fit next to Embiid and super undervalued right now. There are deals like this available. Say what you want about lavine but the dude can score and shoot it. He's been on a losing team always, put him on a winning team with a good coach who can teach him winning basketball and effort on D and he ends up being a better player than simmons in the long run.

There are plenty of deals to be made where we can get value for simmons. People have to stop looking at simmons as some untouchable top 10 player, because he isnt even close to that.

Says a lot about this line of argument that people absolve the Bulls guys for being career losers because their teammates are bad but Ben and Joel are supposed to make us be the best team in the league no matter what the supporting cast is.

[DT RAW]

Glad someone said it. I sick of this Embiid and Simmons can't fit stuff. It takes the blame off the coach and front office and it just isn't true. A competent front office would be able to make it fit.

Then don't expect too much improvement from Simmon's.
+16.4 would be expected as a minimun from any 2 top players like Ben and Joel.
Ben's main weakness is his mindset, and unfortunatly he has conditioned himself to be part of a team that puts Embiid first on offence, so once Joel recieves the ball in his spot Ben and the other 3 players on the floor sort of switch off a little as Joel generally takes his time deciding what to do.
Ben's best games are all when Joel has been sidelined for several games, leading the team to a fast paced extra ball movement style big wins over the likes of full strength Celtics, Lakers and Clippers this season.
This mindset problem of Ben is also associated with his non shooting problem, its all to do with confidence.
I've observed that he does not go into this 'unleashed mode' when Joel misses say 1 game for rest management , only when he knows Joel will be out for a while he turns this switch on inside him.
So basically what I'm saying is Ben has a "mindset problem'' he needs to work on bigtime , however I feel sure his more aggressive Lebron/Magic hybrid mode would be unleashed more often if the team is built more around his strengths.
Imagine Ben with a prolonged Giannis killer mindset.

So if were voting - I vote to split up Joel and Ben.
If management can't or won't deal Joel then I would be ok with Ben being traded for all parties to move on for a chance at a brighter future.
As it is both these 2 top talents restrict each other from reaching their potentials , and management has failed so far to sort out the surrounding pieces - Please do a better job building around 1 of these guys.

As I said it was better than any Raptors duo in that series.

this number was carried by embiid though we all know it. Simmons played great on defense as usual but was completely horrible on offense. Embiid's off/on numbers that series was insane, so of course simmons playing on the court with embiid is going to benefit from that... such a horrible flawed stat once again designed to make simmons look better than he is

[ProcessDoctor]

Say we could theoretically trade i.e. Simmons/Harris/Smith/Korkmaz/#34 for LaVine/Markannen/Porter/#4 (Hayes).

Totally unrealistic, but just as an example. Are we closer to contending compared to this year?


LaVine(33)/Milton(15)
Richardson(30)/Hayes(18)
Porter(18)/Thybulle(30)
Markannen(28)/Horford(10)/Porter(10)
Embiid(30)/Horford(18)


LaVine/Milton/Micic
Richardson/Hayes/#49
Porter/Thybulle/#36
Markannen/Scott/#21
Embiid/Horford/Pelle

[Sixerscan]

Then don't expect too much improvement from Simmon's.
+16.4 would be expected as a minimun from any 2 top players like Ben and Joel.
Ben's main weakness is his mindset, and unfortunatly he has conditioned himself to be part of a team that puts Embiid first on offence, so once Joel recieves the ball in his spot Ben and the other 3 players on the floor sort of switch off a little as Joel generally takes his time deciding what to do.
Ben's best games are all when Joel has been sidelined for several games, leading the team to a fast paced extra ball movement style big wins over the likes of full strength Celtics, Lakers and Clippers this season.
This mindset problem of Ben is also associated with his non shooting problem, its all to do with confidence.
I've observed that he does not go into this 'unleashed mode' when Joel misses say 1 game for rest management , only when he knows Joel will be out for a while he turns this switch on inside him.
So basically what I'm saying is Ben has a "mindset problem'' he needs to work on bigtime , however I feel sure his more aggressive Lebron/Magic hybrid mode would be unleashed more often if the team is built more around his strengths.
Imagine Ben with a prolonged Giannis killer mindset.

So if were voting - I vote to split up Joel and Ben.
If management can't or won't deal Joel then I would be ok with Ben being traded for all parties to move on for a chance at a brighter future.
As it is both these 2 top talents restrict each other from reaching their potentials , and management has failed so far to sort out the surrounding pieces - Please do a better job building around 1 of these guys.

As I said it was better than any Raptors duo in that series.

this number was carried by embiid though we all know it. Simmons played great on defense as usual but was completely horrible on offense. Embiid's off/on numbers that series was insane, so of course simmons playing on the court with embiid is going to benefit from that... such a horrible flawed stat once again designed to make simmons look better than he is

Embiid is obviously the better player, I'm saying if the issue is fit between those two (in other words, there's a fundamental flaw with the two of them playing together) then even if Embiid is great it wouldn't matter.

There's obviously an issue with adding another non-shooter to the two of them, so don't do that.

[DT RAW]

Say we could theoretically trade i.e. Simmons/Harris/Smith/Korkmaz/#34 for LaVine/Markannen/Porter/#4 (Hayes).

Totally unrealistic, but just as an example. Are we closer to contending compared to this year?


LaVine(33)/Milton(15)
Richardson(30)/Hayes(18)
Porter(18)/Thybulle(30)
Markannen(28)/Horford(10)/Porter(10)
Embiid(30)/Horford(18)


LaVine/Milton/Micic
Richardson/Hayes/#49
Porter/Thybulle/#36
Markannen/Scott/#21
Embiid/Horford/Pelle

I think without a doubt we are with the right coach that runs PnR and teaches proper defensive positioning and effort. Absolutely better

[DT RAW]

As I said it was better than any Raptors duo in that series.

this number was carried by embiid though we all know it. Simmons played great on defense as usual but was completely horrible on offense. Embiid's off/on numbers that series was insane, so of course simmons playing on the court with embiid is going to benefit from that... such a horrible flawed stat once again designed to make simmons look better than he is

Embiid is obviously the better player, I'm saying if the issue is fit between those two (in other words, there's a fundamental flaw with the two of them playing together) then even if Embiid is great it wouldn't matter.

There's obviously an issue with adding another non-shooter to the two of them, so don't do that.

so you are saying we can win with the 2 of them or no? I guess I'm confused.

I agree we shouldnt add any non shooters to those 2, though I am of the belief in today's nba you cant win with the 2 of them. one cant and wont shoot, and one is only a dominant star when he ISNT taking outside jump shots as his main source of offense, which he is forced to do if playing with the other.

Bulls continue to be our best trade partner IMO. Simmons and Harris as center pieces to get back lavine, porter, markannen seems like a no brainer for both teams IMO

[Sixerscan]

this number was carried by embiid though we all know it. Simmons played great on defense as usual but was completely horrible on offense. Embiid's off/on numbers that series was insane, so of course simmons playing on the court with embiid is going to benefit from that... such a horrible flawed stat once again designed to make simmons look better than he is

Embiid is obviously the better player, I'm saying if the issue is fit between those two (in other words, there's a fundamental flaw with the two of them playing together) then even if Embiid is great it wouldn't matter.

There's obviously an issue with adding another non-shooter to the two of them, so don't do that.

so you are saying we can win with the 2 of them or no? I guess I'm confused.

I agree we shouldnt add any non shooters to those 2, though I am of the belief in today's nba you cant win with the 2 of them. one cant and wont shoot, and one is only a dominant star when he ISNT taking outside jump shots as his main source of offense, which he is forced to do if playing with the other.

Bulls continue to be our best trade partner IMO. Simmons and Harris as center pieces to get back lavine, porter, markannen seems like a no brainer for both teams IMO

I'm saying there's plenty of evidence of the two of them working and if they don't it will be because the front office and/or coaching didn't do a good enough job building a team around them.

The fact that they had Simmons at the 4 last month, but the guard they inserted was a minimum contract 2nd round pick that had never played in a playoff game, and the guy they put on the bench was a center making $28 million, is a prime example of why they haven't "worked."

[DT RAW]

Embiid is obviously the better player, I'm saying if the issue is fit between those two (in other words, there's a fundamental flaw with the two of them playing together) then even if Embiid is great it wouldn't matter.

There's obviously an issue with adding another non-shooter to the two of them, so don't do that.

so you are saying we can win with the 2 of them or no? I guess I'm confused.

I agree we shouldnt add any non shooters to those 2, though I am of the belief in today's nba you cant win with the 2 of them. one cant and wont shoot, and one is only a dominant star when he ISNT taking outside jump shots as his main source of offense, which he is forced to do if playing with the other.

Bulls continue to be our best trade partner IMO. Simmons and Harris as center pieces to get back lavine, porter, markannen seems like a no brainer for both teams IMO

I'm saying there's plenty of evidence of the two of them working and if they don't it will be because the front office and/or coaching didn't do a good enough job building a team around them.

The fact that they had Simmons at the 4 last month, but the guard they inserted was a minimum contract 2nd round pick that had never played in a playoff game, and the guy they put on the bench was a center making $28 million, is a prime example of why they haven't "worked."

well I certainly agree the front office has been a royal joke, but I disagree they can work together unless the goal is just making the playoffs each year.

Our best squad was last year, and even then they had to hide simmons on offense the entire time. He sat in the dunkers spot and made things worse on the other 4 on the floor.

That isnt going to change moving him to PF, it just puts the ball in the hands of someone more able to create off the dribble, but doesnt fix the issues of him being a waste of space on offense and clogging up Embiid's area of dominance.

So I still maintain they do not, and will not work together if the goal is winning a championship. We will never win a championship with both of those 2 on the roster together

[Sixerscan]

so you are saying we can win with the 2 of them or no? I guess I'm confused.

I agree we shouldnt add any non shooters to those 2, though I am of the belief in today's nba you cant win with the 2 of them. one cant and wont shoot, and one is only a dominant star when he ISNT taking outside jump shots as his main source of offense, which he is forced to do if playing with the other.

Bulls continue to be our best trade partner IMO. Simmons and Harris as center pieces to get back lavine, porter, markannen seems like a no brainer for both teams IMO

I'm saying there's plenty of evidence of the two of them working and if they don't it will be because the front office and/or coaching didn't do a good enough job building a team around them.

The fact that they had Simmons at the 4 last month, but the guard they inserted was a minimum contract 2nd round pick that had never played in a playoff game, and the guy they put on the bench was a center making $28 million, is a prime example of why they haven't "worked."

well I certainly agree the front office has been a royal joke, but I disagree they can work together unless the goal is just making the playoffs each year.

Our best squad was last year, and even then they had to hide simmons on offense the entire time. He sat in the dunkers spot and made things worse on the other 4 on the floor.

That isnt going to change moving him to PF, it just puts the ball in the hands of someone more able to create off the dribble, but doesnt fix the issues of him being a waste of space on offense and clogging up Embiid's area of dominance.

So I still maintain they do not, and will not work together if the goal is winning a championship. We will never win a championship with both of those 2 on the roster together

And yet they were dominant in the minutes those two were on the court and were two points from beating the team that won the title.

They had 4 years, and all the cap space and assets in the world to cover for Simmons' obvious weaknesses in a way that you can take advantage of his obvious strengths, and this is what we got.

[DT RAW]

I'm saying there's plenty of evidence of the two of them working and if they don't it will be because the front office and/or coaching didn't do a good enough job building a team around them.

The fact that they had Simmons at the 4 last month, but the guard they inserted was a minimum contract 2nd round pick that had never played in a playoff game, and the guy they put on the bench was a center making $28 million, is a prime example of why they haven't "worked."

well I certainly agree the front office has been a royal joke, but I disagree they can work together unless the goal is just making the playoffs each year.

Our best squad was last year, and even then they had to hide simmons on offense the entire time. He sat in the dunkers spot and made things worse on the other 4 on the floor.

That isnt going to change moving him to PF, it just puts the ball in the hands of someone more able to create off the dribble, but doesnt fix the issues of him being a waste of space on offense and clogging up Embiid's area of dominance.

So I still maintain they do not, and will not work together if the goal is winning a championship. We will never win a championship with both of those 2 on the roster together

And yet they were dominant in the minutes those two were on the court and were two points from beating the team that won the title.

They had 4 years, and all the cap space and assets in the world to cover for Simmons' obvious weaknesses in a way that you can take advantage of his obvious strengths, and this is what we got.

wait, now you are again attributing simmons to those dominant minutes together. No, it was embiid that was responsible for those dominant minutes. Take any starter and see what their plus was with embiid as a duo..

ben simmons was our 5th best starter on that team last year on offense. And he's getting paid max money now. We had to HIDE him in the playoffs. We had to take the ball OUT of his hands. That is who you are comfortable saying we should build around with embiid moving forward?

I just dont know when people are going to stop lying to themselves. I honestly think Ben Simmons was a better player as a rookie than he is now

[Sixerscan]

well I certainly agree the front office has been a royal joke, but I disagree they can work together unless the goal is just making the playoffs each year.

Our best squad was last year, and even then they had to hide simmons on offense the entire time. He sat in the dunkers spot and made things worse on the other 4 on the floor.

That isnt going to change moving him to PF, it just puts the ball in the hands of someone more able to create off the dribble, but doesnt fix the issues of him being a waste of space on offense and clogging up Embiid's area of dominance.

So I still maintain they do not, and will not work together if the goal is winning a championship. We will never win a championship with both of those 2 on the roster together

And yet they were dominant in the minutes those two were on the court and were two points from beating the team that won the title.

They had 4 years, and all the cap space and assets in the world to cover for Simmons' obvious weaknesses in a way that you can take advantage of his obvious strengths, and this is what we got.

wait, now you are again attributing simmons to those dominant minutes together. No, it was embiid that was responsible for those dominant minutes. Take any starter and see what their plus was with embiid as a duo..

ben simmons was our 5th best starter on that team last year on offense. And he's getting paid max money now. We had to HIDE him in the playoffs. We had to take the ball OUT of his hands. That is who you are comfortable saying we should build around with embiid moving forward?

I just dont know when people are going to stop lying to themselves. I honestly think Ben Simmons was a better player as a rookie than he is now

I'm attributing it to the lack of an issue with the "fit" of Simmons and Embiid. The "fit" issue is when you give over $60 million among other assets to guys that don't fill in the cracks of the team.

They could have absolutely built a roster that had two other scorers that make Harris and Horford money and left Simmons as a 4th leading scorer (or 5th if you want to bring in another offense only guy like JJ) while still doing everything else he does.

You can trade Simmons for someone who can score and shoot better at the expense of every other aspect of basketball, but the result of paying Tobias Harris $35 million a year to now be the 3rd leading scorer when all he does well is score and Horford whatever to be Embiid insurance is still going to be a limiting factor.

[DT RAW]

but wait... if you cant pay harris that money to only score(which I agree with) then why can you pay simmons basically just as much when he cant do the most important thing in basketball, and that's score?

And no, that stat doesnt prove their is no fit issue with simmons and embiid. By definition of fit, those 2 strait up dont fit. Neither one of them compliment eachother's games what so ever. Even if simmons is now a PF full time, if we were looking at another team's roster none of us would say simmons and embiid compliment eachother at the 4 and 5. So why are some of us lying to ourselves and saying they fit here?

Embiid isnt good enough as an outside threat to allow simmons to play inside, and simmons isnt good enough as a post up threat to allow embiid to play outside. They dont compliment eachother what so ever on the offensive end.

Also, why do we keep using this myth that if a player isnt an individually exceptional defender, then their value isnt worth much on our team?

Did we not learn from boston who had kemba, heyward, theis/kanter as 3/5ths of their starting lineup that individual defensive ability is meaningless when you have the right coach and right defensive system and players buy into it?

We continue to use these same arguments year after year. So much so, that now some people are clamoring that now after the fact, our team was never really filled with good defenders from the start LOL. Some are seriously saying our current team didn't have ENOUGH defensively good players on it.

Defense has always been, and forever will be way more about effort and positioning than individual performance.

You are still ignoring that any one of our starters combined with embiid in that series had a positive rating together, that is not a stat that proves simmons and embiid fit together

[Sixerscan]

You are still ignoring that any one of our starters combined with embiid in that series had a positive rating together, that is not a stat that proves simmons and embiid fit together

We're going in circles at this point so I think I'll stop now, but just to reiterate, this is the whole point. When you get a lineup that makes sense around the 2 of them (including getting guys that can shoot and create) there is no issue with the fit. Instead after 4 years this is what we've got.

[eagereyez]

I mean any two players can "work" if you surround them with Curry, Kobe, and Bird. Simmons and Embiid "worked" last year because they had a third star in Butler who carried the load against the Raptors. When your PG has the ball taken out of his hands 3 years in a row (McConnell, Butler, Milton), I would think that's a problem. It means that with Simmons and Embiid, you still don't have a PG. You still don't have someone who can run the pick and roll or penetrate the offense in a half court set. And that's kind of a big deal. It means you can trot out the best starting lineup in the NBA by +/- and still get hit with a gentleman's sweep in the 2nd round. And if you can't sign that perimeter star in FA (Lebron, Kawhi, PG), draft that star (Fultz), or trade for and convince that star to stay (Butler), then you are kind of screwed. And obviously it doesn't help when the FO signs players who make those problems worse.

[Sixerscan]

I mean any two players can "work" if you surround them with Curry, Kobe, and Bird. Simmons and Embiid "worked" last year because they had a third star in Butler who carried the load against the Raptors. When your PG has the ball taken out of his hands 3 years in a row (McConnell, Butler, Milton), I would think that's a problem. It means that with Simmons and Embiid, you still don't have a PG. You still don't have someone who can run the pick and roll or penetrate the offense in a half court set. And that's kind of a big deal. It means you can trot out the best starting lineup in the NBA by +/- and still get hit with a gentleman's sweep in the 2nd round. And if you can't sign that perimeter star in FA (Lebron, Kawhi, PG), draft that star (Fultz), or trade for and convince that star to stay (Butler), then you are kind of screwed. And obviously it doesn't help when the FO signs players who make those problems worse.

Or just the team we had last year.

The idea was always to get another star. They had one last year, they're paying two other guys like they are stars now. Instead they put together a team that, as you said, just exacerbates the issues.

[eagereyez]

I mean any two players can "work" if you surround them with Curry, Kobe, and Bird. Simmons and Embiid "worked" last year because they had a third star in Butler who carried the load against the Raptors. When your PG has the ball taken out of his hands 3 years in a row (McConnell, Butler, Milton), I would think that's a problem. It means that with Simmons and Embiid, you still don't have a PG. You still don't have someone who can run the pick and roll or penetrate the offense in a half court set. And that's kind of a big deal. It means you can trot out the best starting lineup in the NBA by +/- and still get hit with a gentleman's sweep in the 2nd round. And if you can't sign that perimeter star in FA (Lebron, Kawhi, PG), draft that star (Fultz), or trade for and convince that star to stay (Butler), then you are kind of screwed. And obviously it doesn't help when the FO signs players who make those problems worse.

Or just the team we had last year.

The idea was always to get another star. They had one last year, they're paying two other guys like they are stars now. Instead they put together a team that, as you said, just exacerbates the issues.

Yeah and unfortunately without that third star, I don't think the Sixers will win a championship. It seems like everyone agrees what the problems are (spacing, pick and roll, dribble penetration), but the disagreements surface when we talk about what to do about it. There are basically three scenarios that get thrown around:

1) Trade Simmons
2) Trade Embiid
3) Keep both and find better complementary pieces

I think option 3 is the safest bet. You can find some combination of players to create a modified version of the '18 team with Redick, Covington, and Saric. However, you still run into issues if you can't find a traditional PG to run the half court offense. And that traditional PG should also have great spacing ability. What I just described is typically a star player in the NBA - hence the problem.

I am more interested in option 1. My hope is that the Sixers can target a player who, with the right coach, will blossom into an even better player. A scenario like what happened with Nash, Harden, Oladipo, Lowry, etc. The players I'd look at are Murray and LaVine. This option is definitely riskier, but I have held a championship or bust mindset since the beginning.