PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

[bondom34]

And it took like an hour and my feeling toward the return is changing a little lol. They're getting real action on voting it looks like. Still would be more powerful but looks like they're getting stuff done which is a real actionable item.

It would have been more powerful for sure if they didn't return, and I sort of am both-sidesing it, but they're getting some action done at least and the financial aspect is there for guys. It just sucks the shut up and dribble crowd will be back to the norm.

[PaulieWal]

And it took like an hour and my feeling toward the return is changing a little lol. They're getting real action on voting it looks like. Still would be more powerful but looks like they're getting stuff done which is a real actionable item.

It would have been more powerful for sure if they didn't return, and I sort of am both-sidesing it, but they're getting some action done at least and the financial aspect is there for guys. It just sucks the shut up and dribble crowd will be back to the norm.

Yeah, this is a very complicated issue obviously. I have literally gone thinking from it's better to keep on playing, to maybe a full boycott here will bring some change, to hmm maybe they should play and just try to be more politically active. I am not going to pretend that there is a right answer here, and some people don't understand the financial aspects here for the players if they think you make an X amount of dollars and that means you can withstand a sever reduction in your income for the foreseeable future. That's how the system does get you, the whole meme about, go to school, get a job, get a mortgage, get trapped etc. etc. This applies to a lot of the players for sure, especially the non-superstars who won't have any other income other than their NBA paycheques.

In case anyone cares, I have worked closely in asset management with a lot of "rich people", sure they have these nice investment portfolios but you look on the other side of their ledger and they also have multi-million dollar mortgages, maxed out LOCs, and have built lavish lifestyles where they need every penny of their income. Sure, that's not every client I am talking about, but I would say at least over 20% of these clients were over-extending themselves.

[E-Balla]

Also though I wouldn't use quite the same wording I kind of agree.

We just saw them going back changed focus. I'm not a minority so I guess don't have the same POV but changing games from Wednesday to Saturday and all the racist NBA fans will be right back at it. I understand some of the lower level guys don't have the money, but we did just see what happened when they went back. Wednesday really felt historic and not sure what happens now.

The brokest player in the bubble has enough money to sit out if he felt like it. This ain't nothing but greed because there's no significant gap in the lifestyle of someone making 600k (lets say that would be the new minimum contract) and 900k.

If they canceled the season this would forever be remembered as one of the biggest strikes ever. 2020 would be the one season with no champion and whenever someone asked why the answer would be "because players decided their lives were worth more than an extra million".

I'm less sure given the cba changes due to COVID, and remember McCollum talking about guys living paycheck to paycheck before all this.

That said, I do agree with your point, though to be totally honest I've been a bit less into it the last few weeks (I get a weird anxiety with watching for some reason) so may be biased and just not wanting it to return myself anyway. But I can't shake a feeling like you said it would be remembered forever. Also kind of wonder if fans woul find another sport to watch.

I think the same way the Bucks led to other teams in other leagues to start cancelling games, if LeBron James came out and said no NBA until something is done I think other athletes in other sports might follow suit. Especially with COVID killing fall sports anyway.

[bondom34]

The brokest player in the bubble has enough money to sit out if he felt like it. This ain't nothing but greed because there's no significant gap in the lifestyle of someone making 600k (lets say that would be the new minimum contract) and 900k.

If they canceled the season this would forever be remembered as one of the biggest strikes ever. 2020 would be the one season with no champion and whenever someone asked why the answer would be "because players decided their lives were worth more than an extra million".

I'm less sure given the cba changes due to COVID, and remember McCollum talking about guys living paycheck to paycheck before all this.

That said, I do agree with your point, though to be totally honest I've been a bit less into it the last few weeks (I get a weird anxiety with watching for some reason) so may be biased and just not wanting it to return myself anyway. But I can't shake a feeling like you said it would be remembered forever. Also kind of wonder if fans woul find another sport to watch.

I think the same way the Bucks led to other teams in other leagues to start cancelling games, if LeBron James came out and said no NBA until something is done I think other athletes in other sports might follow suit. Especially with COVID killing fall sports anyway.

Read on Twitter

I'm getting a little torn on it, between that and this actually seems like it might really help.

Read on Twitter

It would definitely have been bigger if they just cancelled though. This voting action might really help.

[bondom34]

Read on Twitter

Thread. He's got a point.

[E-Balla]

The brokest player in the bubble has enough money to sit out if he felt like it. This ain't nothing but greed because there's no significant gap in the lifestyle of someone making 600k (lets say that would be the new minimum contract) and 900k.

And you're saying this based on what? Sure, if someone manages their money well you can have enough savings accumulated earning 600K that you can survive for a few months to a year. But you would be surprised with a lot of these rich people - not just players. They are all on the earn and spend treadmill where they are living off maxed out LOCs, credit cards etc, and essentially live paycheque to paycheque. On top of that most of these guys usually don't manage their finances well, how many players go broke a few years after they stop playing? It's easy for you to sit here and say they ******** out or whatever, but you don't know if they checked with their advisors/accountants and realized that no, they actually couldn't afford to miss a quarter of their projected income for the year or risk serious financial troubles.

I'd have supported the players decision to not play at all or now if they want to play because of their own finances, it's silly to go around calling them names just because they didn't do what you think is the right thing here.

Well I've been calling them the same names since 2016 when I first felt all athletes should've sat out. Some things are more important than sports and honestly any player that needs that extra money is going to go broke anyway. They're just delaying the inevitable. JJ Hickson asked my dad to hold some cash like a month ago, if you're going to blow through a few million having an extra million is worthless.

[E-Balla]

I'm less sure given the cba changes due to COVID, and remember McCollum talking about guys living paycheck to paycheck before all this.

That said, I do agree with your point, though to be totally honest I've been a bit less into it the last few weeks (I get a weird anxiety with watching for some reason) so may be biased and just not wanting it to return myself anyway. But I can't shake a feeling like you said it would be remembered forever. Also kind of wonder if fans woul find another sport to watch.

I think the same way the Bucks led to other teams in other leagues to start cancelling games, if LeBron James came out and said no NBA until something is done I think other athletes in other sports might follow suit. Especially with COVID killing fall sports anyway.

Read on Twitter

I'm getting a little torn on it, between that and this actually seems like it might really help.

Read on Twitter

It would definitely have been bigger if they just cancelled though. This voting action might really help.

Ah yes now more people can vote for Joe Biden who wants to fund police more vs Donald Trump who also wants to fund police more. Voting is literally the most basic civil duty you can do and the bare minimum at making any societal change. Direct action will ALWAYS trump voting.

[E-Balla]

Read on Twitter

Thread. He's got a point.

And they couldn't do that if the players boycotted the season why exactly?

More actions > less

[PaulieWal]

The brokest player in the bubble has enough money to sit out if he felt like it. This ain't nothing but greed because there's no significant gap in the lifestyle of someone making 600k (lets say that would be the new minimum contract) and 900k.

And you're saying this based on what? Sure, if someone manages their money well you can have enough savings accumulated earning 600K that you can survive for a few months to a year. But you would be surprised with a lot of these rich people - not just players. They are all on the earn and spend treadmill where they are living off maxed out LOCs, credit cards etc, and essentially live paycheque to paycheque. On top of that most of these guys usually don't manage their finances well, how many players go broke a few years after they stop playing? It's easy for you to sit here and say they ******** out or whatever, but you don't know if they checked with their advisors/accountants and realized that no, they actually couldn't afford to miss a quarter of their projected income for the year or risk serious financial troubles.

I'd have supported the players decision to not play at all or now if they want to play because of their own finances, it's silly to go around calling them names just because they didn't do what you think is the right thing here.

Well I've been calling them the same names since 2016 when I first felt all athletes should've sat out. Some things are more important than sports and honestly any player that needs that extra money is going to go broke anyway. They're just delaying the inevitable. JJ Hickson asked my dad to hold some cash like a month ago, if you're going to blow through a few million having an extra million is worthless.

So your logic is that if some of these guys are going to go broke anyway, they should just do it now when they still have their earning potential? What in the world?

[E-Balla]

And it took like an hour and my feeling toward the return is changing a little lol. They're getting real action on voting it looks like. Still would be more powerful but looks like they're getting stuff done which is a real actionable item.

It would have been more powerful for sure if they didn't return, and I sort of am both-sidesing it, but they're getting some action done at least and the financial aspect is there for guys. It just sucks the shut up and dribble crowd will be back to the norm.

Yeah, this is a very complicated issue obviously. I have literally gone thinking from it's better to keep on playing, to maybe a full boycott here will bring some change, to hmm maybe they should play and just try to be more politically active.

The reason why you keep changing your mind is that you're not thinking only of effectiveness and nothing else. Cancelling the season will ALWAYS be the most effective way they can use their platform.

I get what you're saying financially but honestly that's another separate part of the issue of discussing athletes. It's really America's problem for killing our leaders and replacing them with athletes, then only giving those athletes a platform to discuss black issues while ignoring our intellectuals but that's the position we found ourselves in. There's always going to be a sacrifice here but some of the top level guys should be able to help the others if they really wanted to do this and really wanted to stand together but solidarity is sparse among us.

[bondom34]

Ah yes now more people can vote for Joe Biden who wants to fund police more vs Donald Trump who also wants to fund police more. Voting is literally the most basic civil duty you can do and the bare minimum at making any societal change. Direct action will ALWAYS trump voting.

Being entirely honest, getting this country out of the leadership it's in is really important. And the current admin is actively trying to undermine voting, something the NBA is standing up for, which is a real action.

And they couldn't do that if the players boycotted the season why exactly?

More actions > less

Agree here, but it's also a bit more complex as Paulie said, CP3 just said it, it wasn't a one man decision, they had to take everyone into account. Saying they could do both is fair, I don't like to both sides a debate but get it here. If they sat it would have really sent a powerful message like you said. I wonder if owners would have ceded as much in this if they did.

I don't want to blanket statement the NBA as cowards for coming back over this, they've actually accomplished something. But like you said at the same time see what you're saying somewhat too.

Edit: I think it would be MORE powerful if they did both, and totally get that sentiment. But they are doing something.

[E-Balla]

And you're saying this based on what? Sure, if someone manages their money well you can have enough savings accumulated earning 600K that you can survive for a few months to a year. But you would be surprised with a lot of these rich people - not just players. They are all on the earn and spend treadmill where they are living off maxed out LOCs, credit cards etc, and essentially live paycheque to paycheque. On top of that most of these guys usually don't manage their finances well, how many players go broke a few years after they stop playing? It's easy for you to sit here and say they ******** out or whatever, but you don't know if they checked with their advisors/accountants and realized that no, they actually couldn't afford to miss a quarter of their projected income for the year or risk serious financial troubles.

I'd have supported the players decision to not play at all or now if they want to play because of their own finances, it's silly to go around calling them names just because they didn't do what you think is the right thing here.

Well I've been calling them the same names since 2016 when I first felt all athletes should've sat out. Some things are more important than sports and honestly any player that needs that extra money is going to go broke anyway. They're just delaying the inevitable. JJ Hickson asked my dad to hold some cash like a month ago, if you're going to blow through a few million having an extra million is worthless.

So your logic is that if some of these guys are going to go broke anyway, they should just do it now when they still have their earning potential? What in the world?

My point is that there's no logic in mentioning their finances as a reason they shouldn't strike because anyone going broke due to a strike has major financial issues completely unrelated to the boycott already. Some things are more important than losing a few million when you're already making 10. This is one of them.

[E-Balla]

Being entirely honest, getting this country out of the leadership it's in is really important. And the current admin is actively trying to undermine voting, something the NBA is standing up for, which is a real action.

I'd argue the Republican Party has been undermining voting since 2000 at least and we've already been in the state of being a failed Democracy for the last 20 years. Democrats aren't doing **** to undo the rollback of voting rights and the vast majority of the population either doesn't care or openly cheers for my personal loss of rights. Remember I live in GA, I got out for Stacey, it still didn't matter in the end because votes were going in the trash anyway and no one was going to do anything about it.

That said, again there's nothing stopping them from doing this and also going on strike. Opening up arenas for voters is basic humanities. On the issue of police murdering people it's not helping at all and that's what this is about in the end.

Agree here, but it's also a bit more complex as Paulie said, CP3 just said it, it wasn't a one man decision, they had to take everyone into account. Saying they could do both is fair, I don't like to both sides a debate but get it here. If they sat it would have really sent a powerful message like you said. I wonder if owners would have ceded as much in this if they did.

I don't want to blanket statement the NBA as cowards for coming back over this, they've actually accomplished something. But like you said at the same time see what you're saying somewhat too.

Well I'll say they're cowards personally. I wish I had even a little bit of the financial freedom they had or the influence and wealth they had. It's like everyone is too scared to support direct action. How many people you think lost their jobs during the Montgomery Bus Boycott and the whole year plus that lasted? Change will come but it's like somewhere down the line we forgot exactly how hard the fight was and how tough the decisions made by our ancestors were. There's a reason we hold them in such high regard and it's not empty gestures like sitting out a single game.

[bondom34]

Being entirely honest, getting this country out of the leadership it's in is really important. And the current admin is actively trying to undermine voting, something the NBA is standing up for, which is a real action.

I'd argue the Republican Party has been undermining voting since 2000 at least and we've already been in the state of being a failed Democracy for the last 20 years. Democrats aren't doing **** to undo the rollback of voting rights and the vast majority of the population either doesn't care or openly cheers for my personal loss of rights. Remember I live in GA, I got out for Stacey, it still didn't matter in the end because votes were going in the trash anyway and no one was going to do anything about it.

That said, again there's nothing stopping them from doing this and also going on strike. Opening up arenas for voters is basic humanities. On the issue of police murdering people it's not helping at all and that's what this is about in the end.

Agree here, but it's also a bit more complex as Paulie said, CP3 just said it, it wasn't a one man decision, they had to take everyone into account. Saying they could do both is fair, I don't like to both sides a debate but get it here. If they sat it would have really sent a powerful message like you said. I wonder if owners would have ceded as much in this if they did.

I don't want to blanket statement the NBA as cowards for coming back over this, they've actually accomplished something. But like you said at the same time see what you're saying somewhat too.

Well I'll say they're cowards personally. I wish I had even a little bit of the financial freedom they had or the influence and wealth they had. It's like everyone is too scared to support direct action. How many people you think lost their jobs during the Montgomery Bus Boycott and the whole year plus that lasted? Change will come but it's like somewhere down the line we forgot exactly how hard the fight was and how tough the decisions made by our ancestors were. There's a reason we hold them in such high regard and it's not empty gestures like sitting out a single game.

Don't get me wrong, I do think it would be more powerful if they did both.

I also think they're in a negotiation, and the owners had to agree as well. They've got more money than I do and than most people do, but won't call them cowards for agreeing to something that did see actionable change.

Doing both would be a bigger stance (and we can say Kyrie was right now I'd think), but I understand them doing this too. While I do think that them sitting out would be an incredibly powerful move that sends the message, it's also something where they got more done than has been done by people actually in charge of these things.

How sad is it that we're really relying on NBA players to bring about changes toward equality in the US?

[HeartBreakKid]

And it took like an hour and my feeling toward the return is changing a little lol. They're getting real action on voting it looks like. Still would be more powerful but looks like they're getting stuff done which is a real actionable item.

It would have been more powerful for sure if they didn't return, and I sort of am both-sidesing it, but they're getting some action done at least and the financial aspect is there for guys. It just sucks the shut up and dribble crowd will be back to the norm.

Yeah, this is a very complicated issue obviously. I have literally gone thinking from it's better to keep on playing, to maybe a full boycott here will bring some change, to hmm maybe they should play and just try to be more politically active. I am not going to pretend that there is a right answer here, and some people don't understand the financial aspects here for the players if they think you make an X amount of dollars and that means you can withstand a sever reduction in your income for the foreseeable future. That's how the system does get you, the whole meme about, go to school, get a job, get a mortgage, get trapped etc. etc. This applies to a lot of the players for sure, especially the non-superstars who won't have any other income other than their NBA paycheques.

In case anyone cares, I have worked closely in asset management with a lot of "rich people", sure they have these nice investment portfolios but you look on the other side of their ledger and they also have multi-million dollar mortgages, maxed out LOCs, and have built lavish lifestyles where they need every penny of their income. Sure, that's not every client I am talking about, but I would say at least over 20% of these clients were over-extending themselves.

You're being generous saying at least 20%. Some of those guys also invested a lot of their cash flow into businesses and generally speaking entertainers are quite poor with their money - as they did not really acquire their means of lavish life through financial or business savvy.

Most people in general live beyond their means, at least in the developed world. I'm not much different to be honest.

[Dr Positivity]

The #1 rule is you never bow to the mob because they will never be satisfied. The moment you become more woke for them they will immediately ask for more. The NBA should be wary of a strategy of appeasing the activists at every step. You don't know what the end point is. They had already done a ton going into the season from putting BLM on the court and jerseys and they're still being pressured to do more. This pattern will just repeat itself.

[PaulieWal]

You're being generous saying at least 20%. Some of those guys also invested a lot of their cash flow into businesses and generally speaking entertainers are quite poor with their money - as they did not really acquire their means of lavish life through financial or business savvy.

Most people in general live beyond their means, at least in the developed world. I'm not much different to be honest.

Yep, 20% is probably the low side of that estimate. I like to think I live a balanced life with decent savings (but not that much really), however, if I was told that I would have to take a 25% pay-cut for the next 6months + I don't think I'd be able to survive on my own and may actually have to move back home with my parents lol. It's quite unreasonable to expect players to pick between not being able to survive financially and just sit out the entire season to make a statement. That mortgage really does trap you man

[E-Balla]

Being entirely honest, getting this country out of the leadership it's in is really important. And the current admin is actively trying to undermine voting, something the NBA is standing up for, which is a real action.

I'd argue the Republican Party has been undermining voting since 2000 at least and we've already been in the state of being a failed Democracy for the last 20 years. Democrats aren't doing **** to undo the rollback of voting rights and the vast majority of the population either doesn't care or openly cheers for my personal loss of rights. Remember I live in GA, I got out for Stacey, it still didn't matter in the end because votes were going in the trash anyway and no one was going to do anything about it.

That said, again there's nothing stopping them from doing this and also going on strike. Opening up arenas for voters is basic humanities. On the issue of police murdering people it's not helping at all and that's what this is about in the end.

Agree here, but it's also a bit more complex as Paulie said, CP3 just said it, it wasn't a one man decision, they had to take everyone into account. Saying they could do both is fair, I don't like to both sides a debate but get it here. If they sat it would have really sent a powerful message like you said. I wonder if owners would have ceded as much in this if they did.

I don't want to blanket statement the NBA as cowards for coming back over this, they've actually accomplished something. But like you said at the same time see what you're saying somewhat too.

Well I'll say they're cowards personally. I wish I had even a little bit of the financial freedom they had or the influence and wealth they had. It's like everyone is too scared to support direct action. How many people you think lost their jobs during the Montgomery Bus Boycott and the whole year plus that lasted? Change will come but it's like somewhere down the line we forgot exactly how hard the fight was and how tough the decisions made by our ancestors were. There's a reason we hold them in such high regard and it's not empty gestures like sitting out a single game.

Don't get me wrong, I do think it would be more powerful if they did both.

I also think they're in a negotiation, and the owners had to agree as well. They've got more money than I do and than most people do, but won't call them cowards for agreeing to something that did see actionable change.

Doing both would be a bigger stance (and we can say Kyrie was right now I'd think), but I understand them doing this too. While I do think that them sitting out would be an incredibly powerful move that sends the message, it's also something where they got more done than has been done by people actually in charge of these things.

How sad is it that we're really relying on NBA players to bring about changes toward equality in the US?

You're right that it's a negotiation. That's the whole problem here. What is there to negotiate? When I say people forgot how hard the fight was that's what I mean. In the 60s and 70s they weren't negotiating, they were demanding and holding the capital they create hostage to get those demands addressed.

The pacification of the American left by the FBI and government is why we're in this place still having these same conversations.

[E-Balla]

The #1 rule is you never bow to the mob because they will never be satisfied. The moment you become more woke for them they will immediately ask for more. The NBA should be wary of a strategy of appeasing the activists at every step. You don't know what the end point is. They had already done a ton going into the season from putting BLM on the court and jerseys and they're still being pressured to do more. This pattern will just repeat itself.

Bro stay your ass in discussions about Canada.

[bondom34]

The #1 rule is you never bow to the mob because they will never be satisfied. The moment you become more woke for them they will immediately ask for more. The NBA should be wary of a strategy of appeasing the activists at every step. You don't know what the end point is. They had already done a ton going into the season from putting BLM on the court and jerseys and they're still being pressured to do more. This pattern will just repeat itself.

The pattern of black people getting shot? Because yeah that seems to keep repeating and some have no issue with it. There's no place anywhere for the racism and xenophobia I've seen posted in this thread or elsewhere by a few posters.

I'd argue the Republican Party has been undermining voting since 2000 at least and we've already been in the state of being a failed Democracy for the last 20 years. Democrats aren't doing **** to undo the rollback of voting rights and the vast majority of the population either doesn't care or openly cheers for my personal loss of rights. Remember I live in GA, I got out for Stacey, it still didn't matter in the end because votes were going in the trash anyway and no one was going to do anything about it.

That said, again there's nothing stopping them from doing this and also going on strike. Opening up arenas for voters is basic humanities. On the issue of police murdering people it's not helping at all and that's what this is about in the end.


Well I'll say they're cowards personally. I wish I had even a little bit of the financial freedom they had or the influence and wealth they had. It's like everyone is too scared to support direct action. How many people you think lost their jobs during the Montgomery Bus Boycott and the whole year plus that lasted? Change will come but it's like somewhere down the line we forgot exactly how hard the fight was and how tough the decisions made by our ancestors were. There's a reason we hold them in such high regard and it's not empty gestures like sitting out a single game.

Don't get me wrong, I do think it would be more powerful if they did both.

I also think they're in a negotiation, and the owners had to agree as well. They've got more money than I do and than most people do, but won't call them cowards for agreeing to something that did see actionable change.

Doing both would be a bigger stance (and we can say Kyrie was right now I'd think), but I understand them doing this too. While I do think that them sitting out would be an incredibly powerful move that sends the message, it's also something where they got more done than has been done by people actually in charge of these things.

How sad is it that we're really relying on NBA players to bring about changes toward equality in the US?

You're right that it's a negotiation. That's the whole problem here. What is there to negotiate? When I say people forgot how hard the fight was that's what I mean. In the 60s and 70s they weren't negotiating, they were demanding and holding the capital they create hostage to get those demands addressed.

The pacification of the American left by the FBI and government is why we're in this place still having these same conversations.

Understood, and again think it would have been more powerful if they got everything done but at this point they at least did something. I wish it were more powerful too, and to be honest it sucks that this is falling on the NBA and not people who should be doing it.