2020 Pre-Draft Discussion

[MasterIchiro]

Jesus when was the last NBA Finals where a traditional center dominated? I feel like you have to go back to Hakeem Olajuwon (when Michael Jordan was playing baseball). I'm sure I'm missing a few due to confirmation bias. Or am I?

[MasterIchiro]

Lol, Gobert and Jokic are playing against each other, so one of them is going to the 2nd round. Turners team is missing their 2nd best player to injury and their best player just returned from a brutal knee injury and surgery a couple weeks ago. Vucevic's team just isn't good and is playing the Bucks. Embiid plays on a poorly constructed roster with a bad coach and their other all-star is out with an injury. Bam Adebayo won his series in a sweep. Jarrett Allen is on a bad team playing against the Raptors. Porzingis's team is only down 2-3 against the Clippers with two of their three losses coming in a game he was ejected after 19 minutes and the other he didn't play because of injury. Nurkic is only down 2-3 against the Lebron Lakers and was only an 8th seed being forced to go against the Lakers because he missed the entire regular season to injury. Lopez is about to win his series 4-1. Adams is tied 2-2 in his series.

So, out of 11 players listed, three have already won or definitely will win their series, one is tied 2-2, two are down 2-3 and could still possibly win, and 5 have lost or will lose. Of the teams that have or will definitely lose, two of them are dealing with major injury issues. One of the teams down 2-3 is dealing with a significant injury that has affected the series. Also, there are 16 teams total in this round, so 8 of them have to lose by definition, and even if every listed players team thats still in contention loses that would mean 3 of the 8 winners from this round will be players that play a center 30+ mpg. If one of the teams thats 2-2 or 2-3 right now wins it will be an even split of series wins between teams that play a center 30+ mpg and teams that dont.

You have one of the worst confirmation bias I've ever seen.

You've already been told twice now upthread.

Lol, this is why I normally just ignore your posts.

That's okay Broham, I've been taking yours with a salt shaker ever since our debate and split over MKG vs. Beal. I think we've shared a hatred of Batum though. I always find posts bashing him exhilarating.

[MasterIchiro]

Jesus when was the last NBA Finals where a traditional center dominated? I feel like you have to go back to Hakeem Olajuwon (when Michael Jordan was playing baseball). I'm sure I'm missing a few due to confirmation bias. Or am I?

Oh yes, Shaquille O'Neal. I'm a biased SOB. It's confirmed.

[yosemiteben]

We get it dude, you don't like using high picks on centers. Please move on.

[LofJ]

I'm confident we're going to get a good player at 3, it's going to be exciting to see how it plays out.

[Braggins]

You've already been told twice now upthread.

Lol, this is why I normally just ignore your posts.

That's okay Broham, I've been taking yours with a salt shaker ever since our debate and split over MKG vs. Beal. I think we've shared a hatred of Batum though. I always find posts bashing him exhilarating.

Lol, its all good man. That didn't come off quite right. I just meant with regards to these specific draft arguments. We've obviously had plenty of discussions over the years, but its obvious we aren't going to agree about this draft, so I haven't bothered.

You've always been one of my favorite posters because you will go after anyone and have a knack for causing chaos (why I referred to you as the Joker the other day, it was a compliment).

[BigSlam]

User @NataTheScribe on twitter today said "Just a Feeling. I think the Hornets have this guy [Avdija] at the top of their board. That said, I do not believe they're alone." Then he responded to a user saying "there's a reason I feel really confident about this." He's one of the hosts of the Locked on Hornets podcast and has been covering the team in some capacity for a couple of years now. Not sure if he actually knows anyone in the building or he's just trying to piece stuff together. His first tweet said "just a feeling" then he goes on to tease "there's a reason I feel really confident about this" so who knows. But if there is any rumor out there right now I will find it lmao.

That Nata guy is terrible. Just horrible. I listen to the Locked On Hornets pod and he is clueless.

Walker isn’t too bad. Doug is annoying. But Nata is just a dolt.


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[MasterIchiro]

Lol, this is why I normally just ignore your posts.

That's okay Broham, I've been taking yours with a salt shaker ever since our debate and split over MKG vs. Beal. I think we've shared a hatred of Batum though. I always find posts bashing him exhilarating.

Lol, its all good man. That didn't come off quite right. I just meant with regards to these specific draft arguments. We've obviously had plenty of discussions over the years, but its obvious we aren't going to agree about this draft, so I haven't bothered.

You've always been one of my favorite posters because you will go after anyone and have a knack for causing chaos (why I referred to you as the Joker the other day, it was a compliment).

Yeah it's all good and I did take the Joker comment as you intended. It's no great secret I like to shake it up and stir discussion. Whatever happens in the draft Kupchak is making the pick not Cho, so while Okongwu is my least favorite prospect (didn't shoot a single 3 ALL YEAR), you won't see my crying on draft night if Kupchak selects him. Our GM has a very solid track record of talent evaluation. I mean he passed on SGA but he scooped up Devonte' Graham. And I believe Miles Bridges has unlocked upside and we caught a glimpse in the futures game. No matter what happens, it won't be catastrophic. How many centers has Kupchak pursued only to balk at the asking price? He's patient, not panicked. He was rumored to: inquire about Drummond, talk to Houston (Capela was later dealt to Atlanta), balk at the Grizz demand for Monk and/or a first for Gasol, offer a contract at the MLE to WCS...

[UNCNYC]

I have become a fan of this guy as of late. I think he could be better than Wiseman. He has a small forward style to his game but he is a center. I posted him before but here is more footage. I HOPE he is there for us at pick 56. He did have a foot injury and he is a tinsy bit undersized at 6'9''

Rayshaun Hammonds

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I think that wings and guards win playoff games more than centers do for most teams these days.

I agree that lots of teams have been drafting big guys way too early in the draft over the last few years ... with the exception of last year.

I view modern centers a bit like guards were back in the 90s. Back then guards had to have a post up game. In any given night they might be shooting from range or backing a guy down into the paint depending on the matchups and what their team needed. Centers are like that today. It's not good enough to be able to guard the paint and dunk. Big guys have to have some degree of passing, outside shooting, or ability to defend the perimeter all in addition to doing their traditional stuff like guarding the paint and anchoring a defense. We don't see tons of guys who can really do all that.

I would take Edwards over any center prospect.

I would feel comfortable rolling the dice on some of the guards like Ball, Hayes, or Haliburton.

But I'm also OK with Okongwu as a pick. I get the appeal of Wiseman even if I would prefer Okongwu. Obi is the one guy we've talked about that really makes me nervous.

This is a year when we really get to see what Mitch and his staff can do draft wise.

[Braggins]

That's okay Broham, I've been taking yours with a salt shaker ever since our debate and split over MKG vs. Beal. I think we've shared a hatred of Batum though. I always find posts bashing him exhilarating.

Lol, its all good man. That didn't come off quite right. I just meant with regards to these specific draft arguments. We've obviously had plenty of discussions over the years, but its obvious we aren't going to agree about this draft, so I haven't bothered.

You've always been one of my favorite posters because you will go after anyone and have a knack for causing chaos (why I referred to you as the Joker the other day, it was a compliment).

Yeah it's all good and I did take the Joker comment as you intended. It's no great secret I like to shake it up and stir discussion. Whatever happens in the draft Kupchak is making the pick not Cho, so while Okongwu is my least favorite prospect (didn't shoot a single 3 ALL YEAR), you won't see my crying on draft night if Kupchak selects him. Our GM has a very solid track record of talent evaluation. I mean he passed on SGA but he scooped up Devonte' Graham. And I believe Miles Bridges has unlocked upside and we caught a glimpse in the futures game. No matter what happens, it won't be catastrophic. How many centers has Kupchak pursued only to balk at the asking price? He's patient, not panicked. He was rumored to: inquire about Drummond, talk to Houston (Capela was later dealt to Atlanta), balk at the Grizz demand for Monk and/or a first for Gasol, offer a contract at the MLE to WCS...

I don't expect Mitch to hit on all his picks, but he does have a good enough draft record that I will consider his vote of confidence as a positive sign even if he drafts a prospect I don't like. His (and Borregos) vote of confidence alone isn't going to make me completely change my mind about a prospect, but I respect both of them enough to take it into consideration, as opposed to the Cho/Clifford where I would just instantly assume they blew it again if they made a questionable pick.

[DY_nasty]

I've only got a few rules for the draft, but one of the biggest -> never take 'project' guards in the lottery

[MasterIchiro]

Only 'project' centers like Biz, Cody Zeller, Frank Kaminsky and Noah Vonleh.

[MasterIchiro]

At any rate, Kupchak seems to favor polish in the lottery if Miles and PJ being sophomores are any indication. It's a vote of confidence for Toppin, Avdija and Haliburton if Ball or Edwards don't fall.

[James Gatz]

I've only got a few rules for the draft, but one of the biggest -> never take 'project' guards in the lottery

I'm interested in this idea. What constitutes a project guard? Like would Ja be considered one coming into the draft considering his shooting issues? Most felt he could be good/great if he could shoot at a decent clip which wasn't a certainty, still isn't but he's looked great.

Is Coby White seen as a non project as he didn't have any specific skill that was completely lacking?

Most players project to improve but does project mean one skill is far behind the others? Or simply someone lacking in skill but has great tools like a Mudiay?

[driveandkick]

I'm fairly confident we'd select either of Edwards or Ball if one makes it to 3, but the huge question for me is where the team may or may not stand on Wiseman. I could see him being Mitch's top player on the board or not even in the top 10. That's the huge question mark for me, and if we aren't high on Wiseman I could see like five dudes being in contention for us at 3 if both Ball and Edwards are gone.

[BigSlam]

I've only got a few rules for the draft, but one of the biggest -> never take 'project' guards in the lottery

I think that most every prospect is a project, regardless of playing position or where they are drafted. The draft is just such a crap shoot 99% of the time.

One of my only rules is: “how hard is it to find a player with this skill set or characteristic in any draft class”?

Eg;
How common are wings with the size/skill set of Edwards?

How common are PG’s with the BBIQ and passing of Ball?

How common is the fluidity and mobility coupled with the size of Wiseman?

Etc..


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[DY_nasty]

Only 'project' centers like Biz, Cody Zeller, Frank Kaminsky and Noah Vonleh.

every big is a project lol

I can't think of a single 'project' guard to pan out

edit: to clarify - the #1 question for any big is if they can even stay on the floor. NBA speed is by far the biggest wall for any big. Then you get to physicality. Can they rebound, will they absolutely hamstring your entire defense - then the questions of can they be an actual positive start coming into play. How fast those questions get answered vary, but they're a constant for every big while those factors are more or less a concern for every other position

[DY_nasty]

I've only got a few rules for the draft, but one of the biggest -> never take 'project' guards in the lottery

I'm interested in this idea. What constitutes a project guard? Like would Ja be considered one coming into the draft considering his shooting issues? Most felt he could be good/great if he could shoot at a decent clip which wasn't a certainty, still isn't but he's looked great.

Is Coby White seen as a non project as he didn't have any specific skill that was completely lacking?

Most players project to improve but does project mean one skill is far behind the others? Or simply someone lacking in skill but has great tools like a Mudiay?

A project guard is anyone with a singular nba ready skill/asset and everything else dramatically behind.

Coby White brought essentially the whole package. There was nothing "2 years away"/ESPNapologeticjargonisms or a huge work in progress about the guy. Same with Ja, the guy just needed to put on muscle and develop consistency. Meanwhile, Dennis Smith may be headed out the league soon right along with Frank Ntilikina. Dante Exum still can't run a pick and roll or finish to save his life. Limitless range Jimmer still can't play PG. MCW was a complete bust - but Philly had the luxury of running whatever jank offense they needed to in order inflate the value of their busts no matter the type of player.

The biggest outlier is basically the UCLA pipeline with Russ and Lavine.

I don't count them next to gambles like Cameron Payne or CJ - who produced at smaller colleges but the question falls more on can it eventually translate.

[driveandkick]

Read on Twitter

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Interesting consensus board here from draft Twitter. LaMelo considered the best prospect in those circles and it’s not even close