Pursuing the right 2nd PG: Trade? Free Agent? Draft? All three?

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

From my perspective (and I gather I'm not alone), it is essential this off-season that Schlenk brings to the roster a combo guard who is both such an offensive asset and a defensive one that he gets deployed as the starting SG--at minimum, occasionally, and potentially even being the natural choice above Reddish, if his pedigree merits it.

What's great about that as an objective is that you really can attack it this off-season through any of three methods of acquisition, and what's additionally great is you really do have justification to consider filling all three current voids in the depth chart with one of those. (Mind you, yes, we have Brandon Goodwin, but given how he fell out of favor in those last few weeks of our season, I think it's more than plausible that his non-guaranteed contract is vulnerable.)

There are a couple of options I've been on-record as favoring big-time, and a couple that are only more recently emerging.

Among the more recently emerging is Shaq Harrison, who's an RFA this off-season. The left-handed Harrison has always had a reputation for solid defense, and as a college PG who has gotten significant minutes professionally at SG, he has solid handles and doesn't turn the ball over, while also being a pretty good finisher. It wasn't until this past year, though, that he put things together beyond the arc. Now that he has (38%), there's good evidence that at age 27 (in Oct), Shaq can begin to make a name for himself on someone's roster. His on-court/off-court for this season was by far the Bulls' best (+11) among those who received any substantial minutes.

And so you'd think the Bulls would regard him as a keeper. But then you go to read-up on the guy, and enthusiasm among Bulls writers seems surprisingly modest. They like him. He's referenced as an up-and-comer, one of the Bulls' FO better decisions bringing him in, one of the most underappreciated players on their roster. But evidently because of the other options on the roster in which the Bulls are invested, it seems they're generally accepting of the idea that he'll get a better offer as an RFA than what the Bulls will be willing to pay. If Schlenk can get this guy for $5m or less, I say go for it. If Schlenk can get this guy at a higher number, but for just one year, I say go for it. I'm in.

The other one who has more recently come to light is Delon Wright. I've followed Wright since TOR first drafted him, and now that he's 28 and achieved all that he has in TOR, MEM, and just this past season in DAL, I'm stoked about the value he would add in ATL. In short, he is a more accomplished version of Shaq Harrison. Like Harrison, his history shows both good and bad from the perimeter, and like Harrison, he's always been regarded for his defensive chops. But with more accomplishment comes a somewhat more significant price tag. Acquiring Wright means accepting a $9m cost in 20-21, and a $8.5m in 21-22. It's that second year that might be more problematic, since there remains the prospect that Schlenk will want to have as few veteran commitments on his books as possible, allowing him fullest possible opportunity in the 2021 FA marketplace.

So, why would DAL even be considering trading him if he's that good? I've spoken with DAL fans about it, and they seem to believe it's a 50/50 proposition that Wright will remain b/c of just that reason for DAL as well--his 21-22 salary is an obstacle to clearing enough space for the 2021 off-season market. And in spite of numbers that are fairly stout, some even career bests in DAL this season, there is a perception that Carlisle went away from using him and instead using the well-traveled Trey Burke in the bubble because he just doesn't appear to be the fit beside Luka that was originally anticipated.

Perhaps opportunity knocks, then(?). The sense you get from those same DAL fans is that if you're willing to part with that conditional late 2nd round pick, a deal could be struck.

Then, one of the two who I've been, not only on their train, but in the conductor's seat is Tyrese Haliburton. I'm among the congregation singing his praises for his BBIQ on both ends of the court, his unconventional but quick and accurate perimeter shot, and the fundamentals that over time could make him among the best regarded 6-5 defenders in the league. Travis is well aware of my avid belief that he should use the #6 pick on him. Haliburton's not an immediate answer, but we're not in a big hurry. He could be an exceptional one by the time ATL evolves into a serious contender.

Finally, I've already written ad nauseum about how I consider Victor Oladipo to be at the top of this list.

Honestly, I don't see a more ideal fit. He brings to the roster the same elements that Iggy brought to the GSW roster back-when. Unlike others, you know that it's not just a theoretical thing that maybe he might have the ability to play at the highest level, and in the post-season. He's shown what he's capable of doing.

Still, the questions surrounding him are substantial: (1) Can he get back to where he was, or is what we just saw in the bubble (which wasn't terrible, but also wasn't elite) now his ceiling?... (2) If you acquire him now, will he play well enough in 20-21 to make his Bird rights worth having, or will he not, and so you're in no better a situation to be able to retain him than if you had never given up something for him in the first place?... (3) Though this latest injury is the only major one--ie, one that has ever derailed him for a considerable number of games--what are the chances that hindsight will show that this was just the beginning of a series of setbacks?

And the question that envelopes all of that is "what would he cost?" If it were as easy as offering a conditional late 2nd round pick, there surely would be almost no ATL fan who would recoil, and no fan who would not, to the contrary, get very, very excited to know we effectively have 2-time ASG selection, 28 year-old Dipo on a "prove it" one-year deal.

If he makes it all the way back, you've added a serious high-caliber asset to your weaponry, both in terms of his production and in terms of the attitude and character that he's regarded for... and you're at advantage to re-sign him over any others. If he doesn't, then, as-is the nature of prove-it deals, he's not in-the-way of your going after a better option next off-season.

But it's almost certainly NOT going to be that you acquire Dipo for a late-round 2nd round pick. What will it take to persuade IND to deal him, and is that an acceptable price? That's where I think this thing probably fizzles, as much as I hate to say so. Sending IND the #6 plus Huerter has been floated, but the risk/reward from where I sit says that's a significant overpay. I for one am not even persuaded the #6 should be part of the deal, at least unless there's more benefit to the deal than just Dipo. So, when Schlenk called to ask what he should do, I told him sending out Huerter straight-up is the most he should be willing to pay.

So which one? Or two? Or three? Heck, maybe all four? Not likely, but not inconceivable either. Think of the luxury of having 5 different guards who have spent legitimate and significant time playing both PG and SG, and your 6th being Ice.

Dang.

Behind Ice and Cam, assuming you were to somehow successfully flip Huerter for Dipo, assuming you keep #6 and take Haliburton, assuming you get Wright on-the-cheap, and assuming you get Harrison on a deal that fits the plan, you could have for yourself quite a stable of solid backcourt guys who all contribute, if not contribute significantly. I'll be very, very content with Schlenk acquiring even just a couple of the four, though.

[King Ken]

I don't see things the way you do but you are one hell of a writer.

[King Ken]

I like this thread. Because it's a tremendous post by sturt even if we disagree where we need to go.

What I see is different. I don't believe we need to add an older core piece. I just think we need serious competition at SF to challenge Hunter that's a big wing. Hunter who I always said was one year away at the SF position had a -1.1 WAR after rocking a -0.2 WAR in early DEC, it said to me teams figured out what he was struggling at and exposed it but I always knew due to his style of defense, it was always going to be a multi-year task to adjust as he will use strength as his weapon on D. The positive is, his on/off RAPTOR was 2nd highest on those who played games for the Hawks which says, we aren't worse with him, he just needs to produce more on both ends. Adding competition like someone as small as T. Prince+19 could really help us considering our 4th wings are Bembry/Turner/Graham. I believe Hunter with Capela plus his adjustment in year 2 could have a 2-3 WAR year.

I don't see the need for a combo guard like you do. I honestly think we have our starting SG in Cam Reddish. Rocking a -2.9 WAR in early DEC, he was our worst player and by far the worst player in the NBA by a considerable margin. He finished the season with a -0.1 WAR which is a +2.8 as a rookie, only rookie with that type of improvement was Trae who had a WAR in early DEC of last year at -2.0 improved as much within a year finishing at +.8 which is also a +2.8 improvement. Because of this, I really don't see any need for a core starting SG piece.

Also, Kevin was troublesome in 2019-20. His -0.1 WAR was not good but I predicted it. His +1 WAR as a rookie was fool's gold to me as he had a 1.2 WAR in early DEC and ended the year with 1 WAR. That's -.2 WAR with Trae. While he produced on offense with Trae, his defensive fit with Trae been bad since their rookie years. One of the reasons I wasn't drinking the Kool-Aid going into last season with their fit which is great on offense but no so much on defense. That said, Kevin's fit as a 6th man is natural, and considering his playmaking+shooting value, he's more valuable to us than any other potential 6th man in the league.

Jeff Teague is another one. Since the trade, he has a +.3 WAR with us. Dedmon, same. While both of these guys can clearly be upgraded, unless it's significant, I don't see why to spend a top draft pick on it (PG or C). Both are merely average players but they add value. Jeff has turned our offense around with the 2nd unit rocking a decent offensive rating. The downside is, our 2nd unit defense is ASS now with Jeff. Dedmon mainly been a starter since coming back but our spacing instantly improved and it's clear, Dedmon is a good backup center and a great fit for us. Obviously both of these guys will likely not be Hawks in 2021-22 so we do need to look for future replacements. If that's Bruno for Dedmon or Goodwin for Teague is up for discussion.

In my view, we just need to add two more quality vets and two more quality rookies. That's it. If we keep:

Trae/Jeff
Cam/Kevin
Hunter or vet/-/another vet or rookie
JC/rookie or vet
Capela/Dedmon/Bruno

I am good with it honestly. We finished the 12-15 since JAN. We don't need much, we just need someone to compete with Hunter. A young PG of the future. Obviously a young PF of the future or signing a key FA. That's really all we need. Dipo is nice to have but at what cost. I honestly don't see him as this Iggy you keep hyping up. I felt we traded for our Iggy with Capela.

[atlantabbq99]

Go for Markus Howard in the 2nd round. If he is not around, hopefully Cassius Winston or Ashton Hagans still is

[atlantabbq99]

Payton Pritchard also looks pretty good.

[Jamaaliver]

Read on Twitter

With all this in mind, I'm in favor of taking a big swing on a secondary playmaker who can both play alongside Trae and relieve him as the primary backup.

I'm thinking Ty Halliburton or Killian Hayes in the draft.

[Radioblacktive1]

If Okoro is off the board then sure.

[myrak433]

Trade for Zach Lavine.


I couldn’t help myself

[atlantabbq99]

No thanks for Killian. He reminds me of Childress or Shelden, in that there is nothing special or exciting about him.

Halliburton is not my first choice but i wouldn't be upset either. Going back to a two PG system like with Dennis and Teague but now with Trae and Halliburton could be fun again.

[saloonyk8]

The athletic chat today was discussing Derrick White and Marcus Smart as being ideal fits.

From the sound of it we would need to trade Huerter and trade down from 6 to get those guys. It's a high price but hard to see Celtics trading Smart for anything less.

[Jamaaliver]

The athletic chat today was discussing Derrick White and Marcus Smart as being ideal fits.

From the sound of it we would need to trade Huerter and trade down from 6 to get those guys. It's a high price but hard to see Celtics trading Smart for anything less.

I'd consider trading #6 and #50 for Derrick White and #11. I'd throw in Bruno Fernando...though that seems unlikely to move the needle at all.

[tbhawksfan1]

Bring in a vet to back up PG (JT is fine). Draft BPA. The vet is to help PO push, the BPA is to continue acquiring the best young core in the league

[TheNetsFan]

Saw this posted. Wondering what the Hawks would be shopping for a guy like Dinwiddie.

Buddy Hield and Spencer Dinwiddie are among the trade candidates that the Hawks might pursue to pair with Trae Young, Chris Kirschner of The Athletic opines. Kirschner and Peachtree Hoops’ Andrew Kelly take an in-depth look at what type of trades Atlanta might explore this offseason using the team’s cap room.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/08/southeast-notes-bamba-okeke-fultz-hield-howard.html

Hawks have some interesting young pieces or could be part of a larger 3 team deal. I don't have an Athletic subscription, so not sure what type of deals were discussed.[/quote]

[jayu70]

Saw this posted. Wondering what the Hawks would be shopping for a guy like Dinwiddie.

Buddy Hield and Spencer Dinwiddie are among the trade candidates that the Hawks might pursue to pair with Trae Young, Chris Kirschner of The Athletic opines. Kirschner and Peachtree Hoops’ Andrew Kelly take an in-depth look at what type of trades Atlanta might explore this offseason using the team’s cap room.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/08/southeast-notes-bamba-okeke-fultz-hield-howard.html

Hawks have some interesting young pieces or could be part of a larger 3 team deal. I don't have an Athletic subscription, so not sure what type of deals were discussed.

[/quote]
Here you go:
For both players, consensus is, good on offense, bad of defense.

Hield:
As for the cost to acquire him, given his tenuous position in Sacramento, he could be had a bit cheaper — perhaps Atlanta and Sacramento could swap picks in the lottery, with the Hawks also taking Hield in the deal. That way, Atlanta adds a nice player who dramatically helps its shooting problem and Sacramento moves up in the draft and sheds a large contract in Hield with no money coming back due to Atlanta’s cap space, increasing its flexibility to re-sign restricted free agent Bogdan Bogdanovic.

Dinwiddie:
If Atlanta could find the right price — maybe some sort of trade down (Brooklyn has Philadelphia’s pick at No. 19) or perhaps a deal involving future draft capital if Brooklyn is open to that — Dinwiddie could make a lot of sens

None of the 'Core Five: Trae, Huerter, Reddish, Hunter, Collins' are available.

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

Saw this posted. Wondering what the Hawks would be shopping for a guy like Dinwiddie.

Buddy Hield and Spencer Dinwiddie are among the trade candidates that the Hawks might pursue to pair with Trae Young, Chris Kirschner of The Athletic opines. Kirschner and Peachtree Hoops’ Andrew Kelly take an in-depth look at what type of trades Atlanta might explore this offseason using the team’s cap room.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/08/southeast-notes-bamba-okeke-fultz-hield-howard.html

Hawks have some interesting young pieces or could be part of a larger 3 team deal. I don't have an Athletic subscription, so not sure what type of deals were discussed.

It just amounted to the ramblings of the Hawks beat writer talking with a blogger.

So, it's more interesting than it is compelling, and at that, not necessarily that much more so than one might gather from reading what any one of us might propose.

Unless I read over top of it, they did not propose any specific trades, but just indicated they thought those two are a fit.

Hield?... see viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1991181 ("Were price no object... ")

Problem with acquiring Diwiddie is the same but different.

The defense, while not terrible, is not good enough given that the starting PG is by almost any measure among the worst unfortunately. So, that's the same. That's probably not what rules out acquiring him, though. What probably rules him out is what's different from Hield--i.e., is that Dinwiddie doesn't represent the upside that Hield does, so his contract is a bigger problem even though it's for less money and for less years.

As discussed in the introducing the topic in the linked thread, Schlenk is likely more than happy to pay big and for multiple years for a top-tier talent. But because of that very point, committing to paying $12m for a player in 2021-22 who isn't that is counterproductive to being able to accommodate a big money contract for whoever would prove to be that top-tier talent.

So, Dinwiddie's player option for 21-22 is the speed bump, if not the ditch, because next off-season will be Schlenk's likely last time to have max-contract capacity. Of course, all of that concern changes if/when Schlenk is able to check-off his top priority. I wouldn't totally rule him out, then. In my calculus anyway, it just can't happen ahead of a bigger acquisition.

[kg01]

Saw this posted. Wondering what the Hawks would be shopping for a guy like Dinwiddie.

Buddy Hield and Spencer Dinwiddie are among the trade candidates that the Hawks might pursue to pair with Trae Young, Chris Kirschner of The Athletic opines. Kirschner and Peachtree Hoops’ Andrew Kelly take an in-depth look at what type of trades Atlanta might explore this offseason using the team’s cap room.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/08/southeast-notes-bamba-okeke-fultz-hield-howard.html

Hawks have some interesting young pieces or could be part of a larger 3 team deal. I don't have an Athletic subscription, so not sure what type of deals were discussed.

[/quote]

To answer your question, in general though, I doubt any of our young pieces would be sacrificed to bring in Dinwiddie. For Hield, maybe but I'd be generally against it since I'm not real high on him.

[TheNetsFan]

Saw this posted. Wondering what the Hawks would be shopping for a guy like Dinwiddie.

Buddy Hield and Spencer Dinwiddie are among the trade candidates that the Hawks might pursue to pair with Trae Young, Chris Kirschner of The Athletic opines. Kirschner and Peachtree Hoops’ Andrew Kelly take an in-depth look at what type of trades Atlanta might explore this offseason using the team’s cap room.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/08/southeast-notes-bamba-okeke-fultz-hield-howard.html

Hawks have some interesting young pieces or could be part of a larger 3 team deal. I don't have an Athletic subscription, so not sure what type of deals were discussed.

Here you go:
For both players, consensus is, good on offense, bad of defense.

Hield:
As for the cost to acquire him, given his tenuous position in Sacramento, he could be had a bit cheaper — perhaps Atlanta and Sacramento could swap picks in the lottery, with the Hawks also taking Hield in the deal. That way, Atlanta adds a nice player who dramatically helps its shooting problem and Sacramento moves up in the draft and sheds a large contract in Hield with no money coming back due to Atlanta’s cap space, increasing its flexibility to re-sign restricted free agent Bogdan Bogdanovic.

Dinwiddie:
If Atlanta could find the right price — maybe some sort of trade down (Brooklyn has Philadelphia’s pick at No. 19) or perhaps a deal involving future draft capital if Brooklyn is open to that — Dinwiddie could make a lot of sens

None of the 'Core Five: Trae, Huerter, Reddish, Hunter, Collins' are available.[/quote]
I think if the Hawks were willing to do a pure trade down with cap space for Dinwiddie, they'd be a very interesting team in a 3 way trade if the Nets go star hunting.

[jayu70]

Saw this posted. Wondering what the Hawks would be shopping for a guy like Dinwiddie.

Hawks have some interesting young pieces or could be part of a larger 3 team deal. I don't have an Athletic subscription, so not sure what type of deals were discussed.

Here you go:
For both players, consensus is, good on offense, bad of defense.

Hield:
As for the cost to acquire him, given his tenuous position in Sacramento, he could be had a bit cheaper — perhaps Atlanta and Sacramento could swap picks in the lottery, with the Hawks also taking Hield in the deal. That way, Atlanta adds a nice player who dramatically helps its shooting problem and Sacramento moves up in the draft and sheds a large contract in Hield with no money coming back due to Atlanta’s cap space, increasing its flexibility to re-sign restricted free agent Bogdan Bogdanovic.

Dinwiddie:
If Atlanta could find the right price — maybe some sort of trade down (Brooklyn has Philadelphia’s pick at No. 19) or perhaps a deal involving future draft capital if Brooklyn is open to that — Dinwiddie could make a lot of sens

None of the 'Core Five: Trae, Huerter, Reddish, Hunter, Collins' are available.

I think if the Hawks were willing to do a pure trade down with cap space for Dinwiddie, they'd be a very interesting team in a 3 way trade if the Nets go star hunting.[/quote]
It depends on how far they are willing to trade down.

[graymule]

_S_T_U_R_T - - I really, really want the Hawks to obtain Tyreese Haliburton. To me, he is the ideal back up for Trae and an occasionally fill in for the 2 guard.

Skal Labissiere is a Hawk and the forgotten man. I believe he will make some noise next season from the bench. Our weak bench was terrible last season. It already looks better and we ain't finished working on it.

[DarkXaero]

Saw this posted. Wondering what the Hawks would be shopping for a guy like Dinwiddie.

Buddy Hield and Spencer Dinwiddie are among the trade candidates that the Hawks might pursue to pair with Trae Young, Chris Kirschner of The Athletic opines. Kirschner and Peachtree Hoops’ Andrew Kelly take an in-depth look at what type of trades Atlanta might explore this offseason using the team’s cap room.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/08/southeast-notes-bamba-okeke-fultz-hield-howard.html

Hawks have some interesting young pieces or could be part of a larger 3 team deal. I don't have an Athletic subscription, so not sure what type of deals were discussed.

The defense, while not terrible, is not good enough given that the starting PG is by almost any measure among the worst unfortunately. So, that's the same. That's probably not what rules out acquiring him, though. What probably rules him out is what's different from Hield--i.e., is that Dinwiddie doesn't represent the upside that Hield does, so his contract is a bigger problem even though it's for less money and for less years.

I'm confused, why does Hield have higher upside than Dinwiddie, when they're the same age, and Dinwiddie just had the better season?