NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs

[CBS7]

I am a basketball fan. I support black lives matter (not the organization). I also support blue lives matter. I believe in fairness and justice. Although I am a minority, I view myself as an American. I don’t view myself as anything else. I would like to know how long these players will protest to...please cancel this season and continue to protest. They will protest as far as it doesn’t affect their pockets. Look at the Hong Kong situation. These guys are nothing but talk.

HK/China always gets brought up but it isn't really fair to NBA players. I wish they would speak out against all injustice but it isn't their responsibility. It is understandable why some young black men in America want to speak out against injustice towards.... young black men in America, but choose not to dabble in foreign affairs which some of them probably have no connection to or understanding of. Especially when some of them have directly experienced that injustice themselves.

Sure, some of it may be money/greed. But they also just relate to some issues more.

How is it not fair? How is it not their responsibility? They make millions from China. Injustice? Their shoes are being sold for hundreds of dollars. They cost pennies to make in China. Is that labor abuse? Is that injustice? These players directly benefit from that.

I mentioned that I really do wish they used their platform to speak out about all injustice. But I'm not sure why it's that hard to understand that a bunch of young black men in the US are more likely to speak out about injustice against young black men in the US than they are about another country's crimes. They relate to one far more. It doesn't make than hypocrites. One issue just hits home for them, and the other doesn't. I don't give LeBron as much of a pass, as he's one of the few people who did speak out about it, and he took a seemingly slight pro China stance.

as far as connecting and understanding, these guys have zero experience of being a police officer. The BIG ELEPHANT in the room is "COMPLY". When I get pulled over, I comply. PERIOD.

This again. What about the cases where the person was complying? Taylor was sleeping for God's sake. And should cops have the right to execute (or attempt to execute) everyone who doesn't comply? Blake is an idiot for the way he reacted here, sure. But the issue here is that this particular group of cops had no idea how to de escalate the situation. The way they allowed Blake to briskly walk to his car and then shoot him in the back is gross. They had more than enough opportunity to tackle him to the ground. Almost looked like they were looking for a reason to kill him while claiming self defense at that point.

I agree with the sentiment some people had in this thread that the Blake case isn't as bad as George Floyd or Breanna Taylor, but it was still mishandled by the cop in question.

[DuckIII]

Ok, to stay on topic here is my plea to the players:

Theres other ways to make a statement. Boycotting playing a game that brings so many different people together is not the answer.

This would make a lot more sense if what the players did had not worked. They got the owners to contribute huge resources to voter advocacy, with the goal of removing a sitting administration.

As for the rest of your post, I love your optimism. But it just doesn’t work. It’s 2020 and look at the shambles, socially, our nation is in. We are a global disgrace. And we don’t even need to get in the weeds of individual events regarding police to know it. We elected, and may re-elect, a president who is an overt racist. If it were not for the mountains of other evidence, even this would be enough.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Ok, to stay on topic here is my plea to the players:

Theres other ways to make a statement. Boycotting playing a game that brings so many different people together is not the answer.

This would make a lot more sense if what the players did had not worked. They got the owners to contribute huge resources to voter advocacy, with the goal of removing a sitting administration.

As for the rest of your post, I love your optimism. But it just doesn’t work. It’s 2020 and look at the shambles, socially, our nation is in. We are a global disgrace. And we don’t even need to get in the weeds of individual events regarding police to know it. We elected, and may re-elect, a president who is an overt racist. If it were not for the mountains of other evidence, even this would be enough.

I don't know. Not doing something is not doing anything. They want to boycott games then fine. But use that time to do something positive. Dig deeper into the issues and forget about politics. How about take the time and meet with the police in your state. Meet them, get to know them. Have discussions, have suggestions. Go on some ride alongs, lets gain some perspective. Actually work towards a resolution. Sending messages through the media or through boycotting is only causing negative reactions and we are seeing that way too often now. Do something truly meaningful with the time. Set a positive example out there.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Oh and I'm sorry but voting is not going to fix anything. No president, racist or not, has the magic wand to fix this.

[dougthonus]

I don't know. Not doing something is not doing anything. They want to boycott games then fine. But use that time to do something positive. Dig deeper into the issues and forget about politics. How about take the time and meet with the police in your state. Meet them, get to know them. Have discussions, have suggestions. Go on some ride alongs, lets gain some perspective. Actually work towards a resolution. Sending messages through the media or through boycotting is only causing negative reactions and we are seeing that way too often now. Do something truly meaningful with the time. Set a positive example out there.

I don't think doing those types of activities does anything to solve the problem at hand. How does getting to know the police and doing ridealongs stop systemic abuse of black people by police officers? It doesn't.

[dougthonus]

Oh and I'm sorry but voting is not going to fix anything. No president, racist or not, has the magic wand to fix this.

You can only take a step in the direct direction with elections. Getting rid of Trump, even if you could replace him with a different republican president with an attitude similar to Reagon, Bush, or Bush jr, would be a massive step in the right direction. Obviously that's not possible to replace him with a different republican, but I only mean it as this is not a partisan thing, Trump is singularly awful regardless of party affiliation.

He's the only president in my life time to use game theory to get elected and completely ignore and give the finger to half the country to secure the other half more completely. This has created a wider spread in our policy and our political parties than ever before. I'm actually pretty concerned that this will become a new trend, and if so, it will be devastating overall.

[Red Larrivee]

Ok, to stay on topic here is my plea to the players:

Theres other ways to make a statement. Boycotting playing a game that brings so many different people together is not the answer. Racism wins when we stop doing these things we love together. This goes for any sport. Whether you are playing professionally or just a pickup game at the park, we work together no matter what color our skin is. We enjoy competition amongst each other. I've witnessed first hand many friendships made no matter where we've come from. The game brings us together. Don't stop doing what you do best. Don't let racism break us up. We need positive reactions that will actually make a difference. As a fan I need you now more than ever

Oh and I'm sorry but voting is not going to fix anything. No president, racist or not, has the magic wand to fix this.

You want NBA players to emphathize with you by entertaining you and distracting from your life, but you don't want to empathize with their issues, like the ones that are actually endangering their lives.

I don't think you realize how selfish and sickening that sounds.

For many black athletes, basketball and football weren't just hobbies; they were a way out of difficult circumstances. Jimmy Butler said it best. If they weren't blessed with the talent to play basketball and gain a platform, there's an increased chance that they're in the situations that many of these black civilians have fatally encountered. And even then, they're still put in these positions. Just look at Sterling Brown.

Personally, I'm tired of reading and hearing opinions from people who want to consume our culture and monetize from it, but want to stay silent on the issues that have plagued us for decades. Some people really couldn't give less of a **** about us and it shows. You can miss me with your false generalizaation of sports "bringing us together" when there are people who love sports, but simultaneously further the racial division in this country.

One of them is sitting in the White House right now.

I don't give a **** about what other ways you think NBA players should have made a statement when their actions just led to an increased contribution to voter advocacy. That's how you use the power that you earned. These athletes were on the streets protesting with everyday people, visiting and talking with local and national leaders, and organizing events to raise awareness to issues. They are doing everything they can to maximize their platform for the greater good of this country's present and future.

Don't tell me that voting isn't going to fix anything. At one point, we couldn't even vote; hell, at one point we weren't even counted as actual **** people---3/5's of a man is the phrase. And to this day there are people in the government who fight tooth and nail to suppress our vote and dismiss our rights. They wouldn't be doing that if they didn't understand the power of voting, especially for black people. They don't care about black people, nor do they care about the issues that follow us every single day.

Nobody expects to solve systemic racism, racial injustice, and police brutality overnight. If Joe Biden wins the election, it still won't be solved during his administration. This election is about getting back on the path to make sure these are issues that we work to solve going forward. Professional athletes are playing a key role in creating that bridge, rather than sticking to sports like you want them to.

[cjbulls]

Ok, to stay on topic here is my plea to the players:

Theres other ways to make a statement. Boycotting playing a game that brings so many different people together is not the answer.

This would make a lot more sense if what the players did had not worked. They got the owners to contribute huge resources to voter advocacy, with the goal of removing a sitting administration.

As for the rest of your post, I love your optimism. But it just doesn’t work. It’s 2020 and look at the shambles, socially, our nation is in. We are a global disgrace. And we don’t even need to get in the weeds of individual events regarding police to know it. We elected, and may re-elect, a president who is an overt racist. If it were not for the mountains of other evidence, even this would be enough.

Looks more like the walkout was a loss. They got no real concessions that the owners wouldn’t already have done anyways. No reform resulted from their efforts, which was seemingly their initial goal. And now the games go on and it’s forgotten. What happens if another police incident happens again in a week? Another holdout?

I don’t know if losing the season would have really mattered (probably not), but the little half step in and back out makes them look disorganized at best.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Ok, to stay on topic here is my plea to the players:

Theres other ways to make a statement. Boycotting playing a game that brings so many different people together is not the answer. Racism wins when we stop doing these things we love together. This goes for any sport. Whether you are playing professionally or just a pickup game at the park, we work together no matter what color our skin is. We enjoy competition amongst each other. I've witnessed first hand many friendships made no matter where we've come from. The game brings us together. Don't stop doing what you do best. Don't let racism break us up. We need positive reactions that will actually make a difference. As a fan I need you now more than ever

Oh and I'm sorry but voting is not going to fix anything. No president, racist or not, has the magic wand to fix this.

You want NBA players to emphathize with you by entertaining you and distracting from your life, but you don't want to empathize with their issues, like the ones that are actually endangering their lives.

I don't think you realize how selfish and sickening that sounds.

For many black athletes, basketball and football weren't just hobbies; they were a way out of difficult circumstances. Jimmy Butler said it best. If they weren't blessed with the talent to play basketball and gain a platform, there's an increased chance that they're in the situations that many of these black civilians have fatally encountered. And even then, they're still put in these positions. Just look at Sterling Brown.

Personally, I'm tired of reading and hearing opinions from people who want to consume our culture and monetize from it, but want to stay silent on the issues that have plagued us for decades. Some people really couldn't give less of a **** about us and it shows. You can miss me with your false generalizaation of sports "bringing us together" when there are people who love sports, but simultaneously further the racial division in this country.

One of them is sitting in the White House right now.

I don't give a **** about what other ways you think NBA players should have made a statement when their actions just led to an increased contribution to voter advocacy. That's how you use the power that you earned. These athletes were on the streets protesting with everyday people, visiting and talking with local and national leaders, and organizing events to raise awareness to issues. They are doing everything they can to maximize their platform for the greater good of this country's present and future.

Don't tell me that voting isn't going to fix anything. At one point, we couldn't even vote; hell, at one point we weren't even counted as actual **** people---3/5's of a man is the phrase. And to this day there are people in the government who fight tooth and nail to suppress our vote and dismiss our rights. They wouldn't be doing that if they didn't understand the power of voting, especially for black people. They don't care about black people, nor do they care about the issues that follow us every single day.

Nobody expects to solve systemic racism, racial injustice, and police brutality overnight. If Joe Biden wins the election, it still won't be solved during his administration. This election is about getting back on the path to make sure these are issues that we work to solve going forward. Professional athletes are playing a key role in creating that bridge, rather than sticking to sports like you want them to.

Im going to tell you voting will not fix this. This is a people problem that starts with us and has to end with us and its not going to get fixed until we cone together and realize it. No bs politician is going to fix this. We cant sit back and think the government is going to put in a system that is going to change people. Anyways thats my opiniin and you dont have to agree. But I will say it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

No politician will "fix" this. No athlete will either. That doesn't mean their contributions are worthless.

We are heading toward a voter suppression crisis that could change the fabric of this country. On a personal level, I am terrified about what will happen when polling locations are successfully closed and mail-in ballots invalidated. Not just for this election, but the future of free elections, period.

The NBA players' wildcat strike he won a concession from the owners that goes some way toward addressing that, which is particularly meaningful in cities like Milwaukee, where access to the polls for Black voters is in really sorry shape.

So while I hear you, ILiketheBullsnBearstoo, about putting the onus on ourselves to drive change, and not putting faith in empty suits or the government to save us - least of which a government led by the author of the goddamn crime bill - I think there's an urgent concern here that can't be taken lightly. If we let the perfect become the enemy of the good, we'll lose something we won't get back.

[dougthonus]

I agree with the sentiment some people had in this thread that the Blake case isn't as bad as George Floyd or Breanna Taylor, but it was still mishandled by the cop in question.

Based on what I believe to be the current known sequence of events:

Things Blake did wrong:
Blake resisted arrest physically.
Blake refused to comply with commands.
Blake had a knife the whole time? or was getting a knife from his car?
Blake refused to disarm himself moments before being shot.

Things the cops did wrong:
Allow Blake to walk to his car and arm himself (presuming he wasn't armed?)

What the cops knew about Blake prior to the incident:
He had a felony arrest warrant for domestic violence.
They were called to the scene because of a non violent disturbance he was causing.

The biggest problem is you don't 100% know he was armed/arming himself or when this happened or what kind of knife this was. The cop does yell at him to drop the knife multiple times (reported by other people there) and a knife is recovered from the floor of is drivers side door. From what I can tell, the role of the knife is very unclear, it's not clear whether he got the knife in his car or had the knife the whole time while walking to the car.

This seems like a situation gone bad for sure without knowing when he got the knife, when he was armed, what type of knife etc, it's hard to make a full, accurate judgment.

If he was armed the whole time then I would put a lot more blame on the cops, whom already were wrestling with him, if he had a knife that whole time and is walking away from you with a knife then there really is no reason to feel you are in mortal danger vs what you already experienced later which you managed without resorting to potentially lethal violence.

If the knife was obtained in the car, and he now escalates the situation by arming himself, then it's way more on Blake (really nearly 100% on Blake).

The second of those situations feels like it was the more reasonable of those things to have happened, only because if he was in a physical altercation with them earlier with a knife then it feels like they would have shot him earlier. I just can't see cops trying to tackle/taze someone that has a knife out rather than taking out guns immediately and having him drop the knife. Maybe there's something in between (like he has the knife in his back pocket and takes it out after the physical altercation).

Either way, I don't think this case should be the standard bearer for police abuse. At a minimum, it appears they shot an armed man that refused to disarm after a physical altercation where he resisted arrest and refused to comply with multiple commands. Could there still have been police error and even significant police error? Sure, but there was a heck of a lot of Blake error here no matter how you slice it.

This isn't Floyd/Taylor or even something where a Black man was targeted and turns out to have a history after the fact. This was someone with a warrant out for his arrest, that the people called 911 on to alert police to the scene because he was causing problems whom then escalated the situation repeatedly.

[League Circles]

I actually think the league, protestors, etc would probably have a much bigger impact to further their (our) worthwhile goals if they literally took the exact opposite stance on Jacob Blake than they are taking.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

I actually think the league, protestors, etc would probably have a much bigger impact to further their (our) worthwhile goals if they literally took the exact opposite stance on Jacob Blake than they are taking.

I’ve read your posts. You do not have the same goals as the protesters, I promise you that.

[FecesOfDeath]

Nor whack him in the back of the head with a skateboard while he was running away.

Now that I'm more versed in the sequence of events, he had already shot someone in the head and killed them at the point the guy him in the head with a skateboard.

Still irrelevant to bring up their histories. No one deserves to be judge jury and executioner. The shooter didn't know the histories of the people he killed.

He also broke the law because the gun wasn't his.

I'm sure a 17-year-old with a rifle attempting to run away from an angry mob or from a guy tossing a molotov cocktail at him was playing Judge Dredd.

Watch on YouTube

[League Circles]

I actually think the league, protestors, etc would probably have a much bigger impact to further their (our) worthwhile goals if they literally took the exact opposite stance on Jacob Blake than they are taking.

I’ve read your posts. You do not have the same goals as the protesters, I promise you that.

Perhaps. I don't know how to conceptualize the protestors as having a monolithic set of goals, but I think we'd agree they want to come as close to eliminating racist abuse of police power, and I certainly have that as my goal. If you're suggesting that they just want to borrow more money from the rich to fund social programs and less to fund police, I'd have to see specifics to know if I agree or disagree.

What I was trying to say is that the more that activists show discrimination in how they view events, the greater hope there is for politicians and voters to be encouraged to show discrimination in how they view police. Basically, the more activists can view the Blake case as probably very different from say the Floyd case, the more likely their policy opponents will view actual police work as very different from "overwhelmingly great heroic (insert platitude) work".

[League Circles]

Nor whack him in the back of the head with a skateboard while he was running away.

Now that I'm more versed in the sequence of events, he had already shot someone in the head and killed them at the point the guy him in the head with a skateboard.

Still irrelevant to bring up their histories. No one deserves to be judge jury and executioner. The shooter didn't know the histories of the people he killed.

He also broke the law because the gun wasn't his.

I'm sure a 17-year-old with a rifle attempting to run away from an angry mob or from a guy tossing a molotov cocktail at him was playing Judge Dredd.

Watch on YouTube

I watched that last night. Great breakdown.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

I actually think the league, protestors, etc would probably have a much bigger impact to further their (our) worthwhile goals if they literally took the exact opposite stance on Jacob Blake than they are taking.

I’ve read your posts. You do not have the same goals as the protesters, I promise you that.

Perhaps. I don't know how to conceptualize the protestors as having a monolithic set of goals, but I think we'd agree they want to come as close to eliminating racist abuse of police power, and I certainly have that as my goal. If you're suggesting that they just want to borrow more money from the rich to fund social programs and less to fund police, I'd have to see specifics to know if I agree or disagree.

What I was trying to say is that the more that activists show discrimination in how they view events, the greater hope there is for politicians and voters to be encouraged to show discrimination in how they view police. Basically, the more activists can view the Blake case as probably very different from say the Floyd case, the more likely their policy opponents will view actual police work as very different from "overwhelmingly great heroic (insert platitude) work".

We've seen activists swing moderate for decades. There isn't much evidence that it's produced policy gains.

[dougthonus]

Looks more like the walkout was a loss. They got no real concessions that the owners wouldn’t already have done anyways. No reform resulted from their efforts, which was seemingly their initial goal. And now the games go on and it’s forgotten. What happens if another police incident happens again in a week? Another holdout?

I don’t know if losing the season would have really mattered (probably not), but the little half step in and back out makes them look disorganized at best.

Literally have no idea how on Earth you could reasonably think this is true.

Outside of the NBA:
The Bucks, after refusing to play, were on the phone within hours with high ranking Wisconsin political officials. A special session of the wisconsin senate was then called specifically to address this issue.

Is that all because of the Bucks? Maybe not, but it sure as heck was obviously a contributor to the situation.

Inside the NBA:
In every city where there is an arena, that arena will be attempted to be set up as a voting center. This was the case for maybe 6-8 arenas prior to this, but they now added 20+ more to that list.

They added advertising spots to promote social justice during playoff games which did not exist before.

They started a coalition between owners/players to advance social justice (who knows what this will do or if it will have teeth of course).

There absolutely was a huge affect by doing this.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Oh and I'm sorry but voting is not going to fix anything. No president, racist or not, has the magic wand to fix this.

You can only take a step in the direct direction with elections. Getting rid of Trump, even if you could replace him with a different republican president with an attitude similar to Reagon, Bush, or Bush jr, would be a massive step in the right direction. Obviously that's not possible to replace him with a different republican, but I only mean it as this is not a partisan thing, Trump is singularly awful regardless of party affiliation.

He's the only president in my life time to use game theory to get elected and completely ignore and give the finger to half the country to secure the other half more completely. This has created a wider spread in our policy and our political parties than ever before. I'm actually pretty concerned that this will become a new trend, and if so, it will be devastating overall.

People are so blinded by politics. It doesn't matter who our president is. Which one of the great candidates is going to fix this problem? Give me a break, thats fantasyland. Reality is down here at our level where we live and work everyday. This is where it starts. And it will take leaders that are people we look up to, people that we can trust to come down and have conversations with us. Talking things out resolves a lot. You get to see different perspectives of different peoples' lives instead of only looking through your own eyes and only seeing one side. I've seen videos where black men and white police officers are hugging and that is the bond we need to be making with each other. Our government system is only splitting us more. It would be a way more powerful statement if not one person voted as opposed to everyone voting. There's nobody real running for president. We need to come together find resolutions and rocking the vote and sitting back and waiting for it to happen is not one of them.

[dougthonus]

We've seen activists swing moderate for decades. There isn't much evidence that it's produced policy gains.

Things aren't good for black people in this country and they aren't improving fast enough either. That said, really since the end of slavery (and really the politics leading up to the end of slavery) things have consistently been moving in the right direction.

Two generations ago, you had legalized segregation still. I've personally seen the importance of diversity hiring grow 10 fold over my professional career from nothing, to needing to fill a quota anywhere in the company, to an important strategic initiative to add diversity in leadership positions.

I completely get that it isn't good enough, especially when I travel to different regions of the country that have a view radically different than where I live (which I'm sure still isn't good enough but is light years ahead of some other areas), but I have a hard time believing anything other than through the slow march of time things are better and that each passing generation has it better than the previous one.

Fixing this problem has forever been too slow, simply because you often can't fix people or change people, and effectively you are waiting for the younger generations whom are more open to take over.

I'm not sure that swinging for moderates is going to us there faster or slower than not doing so. You may very well be right that getting moderate votes won't help. However, I think it's a mistake to say that progress hasn't been consistently made over any extended period of time. My personal guess is that without broad support of the white majority, blacks will never see the changes they want.

I think that support is there right now and this is a key moment because it is not only passively there now, but it is actively there now which has been different than in the past where most people wouldn't support racism, but few were actively trying to fight it.