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NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs

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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#461 » by johnnyvann840 » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:04 pm

musiqsoulchild wrote:
johnnyvann840 wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:
I would have condoned a shoot to kill in all 3 situations.

Regardless of the race of the officer or the criminal.

Those situations arent very similar to what occurred in Floyd or Blake's case.

Even with Rayshard in ATL.

Or Laquan in Chicago or Michael Brown in St. Louis.

Heres what I would do if it was a dangerous area where as a cop I am going in for a call:

1) The precinct I work for MUST have protocols of escalation because it's a more dangerous neighborhood that we police in

2) The goal should always be to apprehend a criminal. Not to kill him/her. We have all heard of "Suicide by Cop". A few criminals prefer that go going away for a long time. A protocol needs to exist for that. For protecting the criminal and the Cops.

3) A team always responds...with backup in place.

4) The community leadership is actively involved in such situations to de-escalate.

5) Cops are trained in de-escalation


The question is in the 2 scenarios why does the criminal get belligerent with a Cop? When they wont with a Civilian?

Are they in the midst of a criminal act? Is it better to let them complete the criminal.act and then pick them up when things are naturally unexpected and deescalated.




Insight.

Not saying any of this justifies what happened, but it certainly changes the way I look at the entire scenario. If the cops were aware of all of this and Blake really was resisting arrest, fighting with the cops prior to the video we all saw a million times. If he really just essentially broke into a woman's home, finger raped this woman while she was sleeping and had a history of domestic abuse with her. Also, he had just stole her vehicle as well, according to her. Btw, this is the same woman who he had just sexually assaulted in July which is the reason he had a warrant for his arrest in the first place. She called 911 after he sexually assaulted her and she realized her car was gone and her keys had been taken from her purse by Blake.

I just hate that the media only reports half the story, which winds up inciting riots and violence. Perhaps if people got the whole story from the media, they would react differently or at least wait until all the facts are known.

The responding officers were aware he had an open warrant for felony sexual assault, according to dispatch records and the Kenosha Professional Police Association, which released a statement on the incident on Friday.

That police union statement also claimed that Blake was armed with a knife at the time of the shooting — and had put one cop in a headlock and shrugged off two Taser attempts while resisting arrest.

Blake, who was paralyzed in the shooting, had been handcuffed to his hospital bed due to the warrant, which was vacated Friday, according to a statement released by his lawyer, Benjamin Crump. His restraints were removed, but he is still facing the criminal charges, Crump said.

Blake is accused in the criminal complaint, which was obtained by The Post, of breaking into the home of a woman he knew and sexually assaulting her.

The victim, who is only identified by her initials in the paperwork, told police she was asleep in bed with one of her children when Blake came into the room around 6 a.m. and allegedly said “I want my sh-t,” the record states.

She told cops Blake then used his finger to sexually assault her, sniffed it and said, “Smells like you’ve been with other men,” the criminal complaint alleges.

The officer who took her statement said she “had a very difficult time telling him this and cried as she told how the defendant assaulted her.”

The alleged victim said Blake “penetrating her digitally caused her pain and humiliation and was done without her consent” and she was “very humiliated and upset by the sexual assault,” the record states.

She told police she “was upset but collected herself” and then allegedly ran out the front door after Blake, the complaint says. She then realized her car was missing, checked her purse and saw the keys were missing and then “immediately called 911,” the complaint alleges.

The alleged victim told cops she has known him for eight years and claims that he physically assaults her “around twice a year when he drinks heavily.”

Police filed charges against him for felony sexual assault, trespassing and domestic abuse in July when a warrant was issued for his arrest.

On Sunday, within three minutes of responding to the 911 call, Blake was shot 7 times in the back as he attempted to get into his car.


Let's apply that insight now.

I arrive on the scene. I ascertain that those are HIS kids and are rightfully with the correct custodian.

And, I let him drive away.

I then collect all the information from the person who called in the cops. And then, assign a cop to protect her UNTIL we arrest Blake later that day when the kids are not in danger.

I mean, there's a million ways to go about it that is better than current police procedure.


I agree with you 100% on that. I'm just saying that he is not just some innocent dude who was shot up for trying to get into his car. He was a dangerous criminal who may or may not have threatened the cops with a knife. We just don't know. We do know that he is pretty much a scumbag though. Again, not saying that justifies the actions of the police in this instance, but I have a lot less sympathy for him and am willing to wait for the facts to surface before I condemn the cops. They very well may have been threatened by somebody they knew was a criminal with violent tendencies and may or may not have had a knife.
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#462 » by musiqsoulchild » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:12 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:
johnnyvann840 wrote:


Insight.

Not saying any of this justifies what happened, but it certainly changes the way I look at the entire scenario. If the cops were aware of all of this and Blake really was resisting arrest, fighting with the cops prior to the video we all saw a million times. If he really just essentially broke into a woman's home, finger raped this woman while she was sleeping and had a history of domestic abuse with her. Also, he had just stole her vehicle as well, according to her. Btw, this is the same woman who he had just sexually assaulted in July which is the reason he had a warrant for his arrest in the first place. She called 911 after he sexually assaulted her and she realized her car was gone and her keys had been taken from her purse by Blake.

I just hate that the media only reports half the story, which winds up inciting riots and violence. Perhaps if people got the whole story from the media, they would react differently or at least wait until all the facts are known.



Let's apply that insight now.

I arrive on the scene. I ascertain that those are HIS kids and are rightfully with the correct custodian.

And, I let him drive away.

I then collect all the information from the person who called in the cops. And then, assign a cop to protect her UNTIL we arrest Blake later that day when the kids are not in danger.

I mean, there's a million ways to go about it that is better than current police procedure.


I agree with you 100% on that. I'm just saying that he is not just some innocent dude who was shot up for trying to get into his car. He was a dangerous criminal who may or may not have threatened the cops with a knife. We just don't know. We do know that he is pretty much a scumbag though. Again, not saying that justifies the actions of the police in this instance, but I have a lot less sympathy for him and am willing to wait for the facts to surface before I condemn the cops. They very well may have been threatened by somebody they knew was a criminal with violent tendencies and may or may not have had a knife.


And in his case, especially because he had a known history as a bad actor, Cops should NOT engage.

Our cops are trained to engage if the person has a violent history.

That's ass backwards and puts innocent bystanders and cops lives at risk.
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#463 » by dougthonus » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:15 pm

musiqsoulchild wrote:Let's apply that insight now.

I arrive on the scene. I ascertain that those are HIS kids and are rightfully with the correct custodian.

And, I let him drive away.

I then collect all the information from the person who called in the cops. And then, assign a cop to protect her UNTIL we arrest Blake later that day when the kids are not in danger.

I mean, there's a million ways to go about it that is better than current police procedure.


This is a completely ridiculous solution.

It literally makes absolutely no sense if you remove hindsight from the equation.

Going into a situation where a 911 call is placed against someone whom has a felony arrest warrant out for him, I can't imagine you thinking the correct thing to do is let him leave with three kids and catch up with him later. Why would you think later will result in a better confrontation than now? Why would you think going into the situation that he will arm himself and not comply with commands, and if you did think that, why would you think it wouldn't happen later?

As a protocol that you set for officers, letting people with felony arrest warrants leave the scene without attempting to arrest them because you'll try to arrest them later simply makes no sense. When is it ever the right time to make an arrest in these circumstances then?

Sure, based on the outcome of what happened, it would have led to a better result, but that's kind of like playing the lotto and then afterwards saying you know what I should have played the numbers that won instead. Well yeah, of course, but you had no way to know those numbers before hand.
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#464 » by dougthonus » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:21 pm

musiqsoulchild wrote:And in his case, especially because he had a known history as a bad actor, Cops should NOT engage.

Our cops are trained to engage if the person has a violent history.

That's ass backwards and puts innocent bystanders and cops lives at risk.


So someone commits armed robbery on a store, just let him go? Hope he doesn't do it again? Don't engage someone that might be violent and let those guys walk away? That doesn't seem like a good way to stop violent crime.
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#465 » by League Circles » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:27 pm

musiqsoulchild wrote:
johnnyvann840 wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:
Let's apply that insight now.

I arrive on the scene. I ascertain that those are HIS kids and are rightfully with the correct custodian.

And, I let him drive away.

I then collect all the information from the person who called in the cops. And then, assign a cop to protect her UNTIL we arrest Blake later that day when the kids are not in danger.

I mean, there's a million ways to go about it that is better than current police procedure.


I agree with you 100% on that. I'm just saying that he is not just some innocent dude who was shot up for trying to get into his car. He was a dangerous criminal who may or may not have threatened the cops with a knife. We just don't know. We do know that he is pretty much a scumbag though. Again, not saying that justifies the actions of the police in this instance, but I have a lot less sympathy for him and am willing to wait for the facts to surface before I condemn the cops. They very well may have been threatened by somebody they knew was a criminal with violent tendencies and may or may not have had a knife.


And in his case, especially because he had a known history as a bad actor, Cops should NOT engage.

Our cops are trained to engage if the person has a violent history.

That's ass backwards and puts innocent bystanders and cops lives at risk.

How are they supposed to apprehend him without "engaging"?
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#466 » by musiqsoulchild » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:34 pm

League Circles wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:
johnnyvann840 wrote:
I agree with you 100% on that. I'm just saying that he is not just some innocent dude who was shot up for trying to get into his car. He was a dangerous criminal who may or may not have threatened the cops with a knife. We just don't know. We do know that he is pretty much a scumbag though. Again, not saying that justifies the actions of the police in this instance, but I have a lot less sympathy for him and am willing to wait for the facts to surface before I condemn the cops. They very well may have been threatened by somebody they knew was a criminal with violent tendencies and may or may not have had a knife.


And in his case, especially because he had a known history as a bad actor, Cops should NOT engage.

Our cops are trained to engage if the person has a violent history.

That's ass backwards and puts innocent bystanders and cops lives at risk.

How are they supposed to apprehend him without "engaging"?


They do this all the time when it's a high risk target.

Definitely dont dont do it like they did with Breonna Taylor though.
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#467 » by musiqsoulchild » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:37 pm

dougthonus wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:And in his case, especially because he had a known history as a bad actor, Cops should NOT engage.

Our cops are trained to engage if the person has a violent history.

That's ass backwards and puts innocent bystanders and cops lives at risk.


So someone commits armed robbery on a store, just let him go? Hope he doesn't do it again? Don't engage someone that might be violent and let those guys walk away? That doesn't seem like a good way to stop violent crime.


Not at all what I am saying.

I am saying that they access to so many databases and so much time to make an arrest in several cases.

I beleive shoot to kill is necessary when the public and cops are in danger.

Also, there is only one kind of shooting...shoot to kill. Once a gun is drawn, the intent has to be to kill.

Which means, it should be drawn at a very high barrier of evidence and assessment.
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#468 » by musiqsoulchild » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:39 pm

dougthonus wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:Let's apply that insight now.

I arrive on the scene. I ascertain that those are HIS kids and are rightfully with the correct custodian.

And, I let him drive away.

I then collect all the information from the person who called in the cops. And then, assign a cop to protect her UNTIL we arrest Blake later that day when the kids are not in danger.

I mean, there's a million ways to go about it that is better than current police procedure.


This is a completely ridiculous solution.

It literally makes absolutely no sense if you remove hindsight from the equation.

Going into a situation where a 911 call is placed against someone whom has a felony arrest warrant out for him, I can't imagine you thinking the correct thing to do is let him leave with three kids and catch up with him later. Why would you think later will result in a better confrontation than now? Why would you think going into the situation that he will arm himself and not comply with commands, and if you did think that, why would you think it wouldn't happen later?

As a protocol that you set for officers, letting people with felony arrest warrants leave the scene without attempting to arrest them because you'll try to arrest them later simply makes no sense. When is it ever the right time to make an arrest in these circumstances then?

Sure, based on the outcome of what happened, it would have led to a better result, but that's kind of like playing the lotto and then afterwards saying you know what I should have played the numbers that won instead. Well yeah, of course, but you had no way to know those numbers before hand.


I think anytime family and ex-fanily are involved it's a highly volatile situation. Especially when you throw in someone like a Blake's past into play.

That was a situation tailor made for a Social Worker/Cop.

I am saying that we have so much computing power now that it should be fairly easy to create scenarios as the 911 call is being completed and then sent out to the responding cops Computing machine.
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#469 » by League Circles » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:41 pm

musiqsoulchild wrote:
League Circles wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:
And in his case, especially because he had a known history as a bad actor, Cops should NOT engage.

Our cops are trained to engage if the person has a violent history.

That's ass backwards and puts innocent bystanders and cops lives at risk.

How are they supposed to apprehend him without "engaging"?


They do this all the time when it's a high risk target.

Definitely dont dont do it like they did with Breonna Taylor though.

Once again you deflect a very straightforward question. It's becoming quite a pattern.

Ultimately Doug's point is the bottom line. Why do you think circumstances will be improved later?
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#470 » by dougthonus » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:44 pm

musiqsoulchild wrote:Not at all what I am saying.

I am saying that they access to so many databases and so much time to make an arrest in several cases.

I beleive shoot to kill is necessary when the public and cops are in danger.

Also, there is only one kind of shooting...shoot to kill. Once a gun is drawn, the intent has to be to kill.

Which means, it should be drawn at a very high barrier of evidence and assessment.


I'm not sure how any of this follows from they shouldn't engage with violent criminals. These seem like completely different statements that are in no way related.

I mean in this specific case, this seems especially non applicable as there is no reason going in to think that this situation will escalate into a shooting conflict.
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#471 » by musiqsoulchild » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:51 pm

dougthonus wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:Not at all what I am saying.

I am saying that they access to so many databases and so much time to make an arrest in several cases.

I beleive shoot to kill is necessary when the public and cops are in danger.

Also, there is only one kind of shooting...shoot to kill. Once a gun is drawn, the intent has to be to kill.

Which means, it should be drawn at a very high barrier of evidence and assessment.


I'm not sure how any of this follows from they shouldn't engage with violent criminals. These seem like completely different statements that are in no way related.

I mean in this specific case, this seems especially non applicable as there is no reason going in to think that this situation will escalate into a shooting conflict.


Didnt I already say that that's the massive disconnect?

When a woman calls a cops on you, the emotions are HIGH. You're already feeling attacked.

And worried given your past run ins with the law.

Not a good time to engage him in escalation. In de-escalation, absolutely. But not a lot of cops are trained in that.
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#472 » by dougthonus » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:51 pm

musiqsoulchild wrote:I think anytime family and ex-fanily are involved it's a highly volatile situation. Especially when you throw in someone like a Blake's past into play.

That was a situation tailor made for a Social Worker/Cop.

I am saying that we have so much computing power now that it should be fairly easy to create scenarios as the 911 call is being completed and then sent out to the responding cops Computing machine.


So say your ex wife, whom has been physically abusive to you in the past, and has a felony warrant out for her arrest due to repeated abuse against you is at your house, has stolen your car keys, and you call 911 on her. The cops show up, and your hope is that they take your statement and let her drive away?

Or say your daughter/sister/mother is in a situation where her ex has been abusive with them in the past, has obtained a felon arrest warrant for them, they show up at her house, steal her car keys, she calls 911, you want the cops to show up and let the person go away rather than attempt to arrest them?

I just don't think that would be my expectation as a citizen of what the police to do if I were presently being victimized by someone whom had repeated crimes against me and I call 911. My expectation would be that they attempt to immediately arrest this person and remove this threat from my life.

If that person is stupid enough for whatever reason to resist arrest and arm himself against the police then what happens next is on them and that same situation could have happened later.

Now, maybe he wasn't armed and this cop was a psycho or freaked out and its all his fault. However, there's no circumstance where I would want the cops to behave like you are asking here. I would want them to attempt arrest. If the cop was in the wrong because the guy wasn't really armed, then the cop is in the wrong, and this is a tragedy. If the guy does arm himself and refuses to comply, then I'm not sure what you expect. I'm okay with police shooting people whom arm themselves against them after resisting arrest and do not comply with commands while an arrest attempt is being made.

Either way, the principle of attempting arrest in this situation isn't something I'd change.
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#473 » by League Circles » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:55 pm

League Circles wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:
League Circles wrote:How are they supposed to apprehend him without "engaging"?


They do this all the time when it's a high risk target.

Definitely dont dont do it like they did with Breonna Taylor though.

Once again you deflect a very straightforward question. It's becoming quite a pattern.

Ultimately Doug's point is the bottom line. Why do you think circumstances will be improved later?

Musiq, please allow me to retract this first statement here. Kind of a jerk move, I'm sorry. I trust you're discussing these issues in good faith.
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#474 » by musiqsoulchild » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:56 pm

League Circles wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:
League Circles wrote:How are they supposed to apprehend him without "engaging"?


They do this all the time when it's a high risk target.

Definitely dont dont do it like they did with Breonna Taylor though.

Once again you deflect a very straightforward question. It's becoming quite a pattern.

Ultimately Doug's point is the bottom line. Why do you think circumstances will be improved later?


They can apprehend him later when he is by himself.

After he has dropped off his kids.

Just a tap on the door in plain clothes. And a quick arrest.

You know what helps with assessing those kinds of situations? Community inputs.

Which are solely lacking now in present day policing.
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#475 » by musiqsoulchild » Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:00 pm

League Circles wrote:
League Circles wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:
They do this all the time when it's a high risk target.

Definitely dont dont do it like they did with Breonna Taylor though.

Once again you deflect a very straightforward question. It's becoming quite a pattern.

Ultimately Doug's point is the bottom line. Why do you think circumstances will be improved later?

Musiq, please allow me to retract this first statement here. Kind of a jerk move, I'm sorry. I trust you're discussing these issues in good faith.



All good...see how we both allow ourselves charitable explanations for high emotions?

Its because we know each other and the places we come from when we post.

Now imagine a cop going into a situation where they know so little other than the database of past crimes and a situation they are walking into with only their eyes and their guns.

And just a 911 call as information.

Its just putting them in a tough spot more often not.
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#476 » by League Circles » Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:00 pm

musiqsoulchild wrote:
League Circles wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:
They do this all the time when it's a high risk target.

Definitely dont dont do it like they did with Breonna Taylor though.

Once again you deflect a very straightforward question. It's becoming quite a pattern.

Ultimately Doug's point is the bottom line. Why do you think circumstances will be improved later?


They can apprehend him later when he is by himself.

After he has dropped off his kids.

Just a tap on the door in plain clothes. And a quick arrest.

You know what helps with assessing those kinds of situations? Community inputs.

Which are solely lacking now in present day policing.

See I think when someone is potentially facing many years in prison and is known to be a violent offender the last thing on Earth you want to do is let them get into a situation where they have the opportunity and the motive to hold their own children hostage. I mean this guy had already been evading a violent felony arrest warrant for like 7 weeks. this interaction with the police was an enormous notice to him that they had found him. He was definitely liable to do anything to continue to secure his freedom. These are the types of situations where people can kill their own children and I am not exaggerating. he lost the benefit of the doubt that he would comply when he evaded felony arrest for 7 weeks and then continued to return to try to abuse his victim further.
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#477 » by dougthonus » Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:00 pm

musiqsoulchild wrote:Didnt I already say that that's the massive disconnect?

When a woman calls a cops on you, the emotions are HIGH. You're already feeling attacked.

And worried given your past run ins with the law.

Not a good time to engage him in escalation. In de-escalation, absolutely. But not a lot of cops are trained in that.


Let's say they do that, and then, this peron whom is feeling attacked, desperate, knows a warrant is out for him and the cops are coming, drives off with three kids, decides its over and kills all the kids and himself.

What would we say about the police for letting him drive off?

Why would you predict that to be a less likely outcome than him arming himself against police?
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#478 » by FecesOfDeath » Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:13 pm

Why are we all acting like the police at the scene had no access to Blake's record before undertaking the actions that they did? Facial recognition software is more available and affordable than ever, and the GF may have easily dropped his name on the 911 call. It's extremely likely the LEOs at the scene knew exactly who he was.

In the case of Rittenhouse, he did not carry the rifle across state lines but picked it up from a friend in Wisconsin.

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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#479 » by musiqsoulchild » Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:14 pm

dougthonus wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:Didnt I already say that that's the massive disconnect?

When a woman calls a cops on you, the emotions are HIGH. You're already feeling attacked.

And worried given your past run ins with the law.

Not a good time to engage him in escalation. In de-escalation, absolutely. But not a lot of cops are trained in that.


Let's say they do that, and then, this peron whom is feeling attacked, desperate, knows a warrant is out for him and the cops are coming, drives off with three kids, decides its over and kills all the kids and himself.

What would we say about the police for letting him drive off?

Why would you predict that to be a less likely outcome than him arming himself against police?


I think this odds of that happening are less than that of a bullet ricocheting and hitting one of the kids inside the car.

And the very real trauma that the kids have to live with for the rest of their lives.

I dont want our discussion to be endemic to just this one case.

I am saying that policing should be better equipped with Scenario Analysis.

Imagine if that Precint had 2 full time Case Workers on payroll.

And the protocols calculate that the Cops must go in with a Social Worker/ Case Worker , then that's what should happen.

If the Scenarios are generated that the Cops are going in locked and loaded ( an armed robbery like you said earlier) then, by all means do so.

This helps the Cops. It helps the Citizens.

AI will ensure that new case data keep skewing decision making to the correct trend.

A cop will still be the one making the decision...but Scenarios are crucial in eliminating NOISE in a cops head.
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Re: NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs 

Post#480 » by musiqsoulchild » Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:19 pm

League Circles wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:
League Circles wrote:Once again you deflect a very straightforward question. It's becoming quite a pattern.

Ultimately Doug's point is the bottom line. Why do you think circumstances will be improved later?


They can apprehend him later when he is by himself.

After he has dropped off his kids.

Just a tap on the door in plain clothes. And a quick arrest.

You know what helps with assessing those kinds of situations? Community inputs.

Which are solely lacking now in present day policing.

See I think when someone is potentially facing many years in prison and is known to be a violent offender the last thing on Earth you want to do is let them get into a situation where they have the opportunity and the motive to hold their own children hostage. I mean this guy had already been evading a violent felony arrest warrant for like 7 weeks. this interaction with the police was an enormous notice to him that they had found him. He was definitely liable to do anything to continue to secure his freedom. These are the types of situations where people can kill their own children and I am not exaggerating. he lost the benefit of the doubt that he would comply when he evaded felony arrest for 7 weeks and then continued to return to try to abuse his victim further.


I answered Doug's post as both your posts were along the same lines.

Heres my quick answer to you in addition to what I wrote in response to Doug's post:

A violent criminal is NOT always a violent criminal.


They order food
They go to Church
They go to the grocery store
They do regular ****

A cop is a cop. Until his shift ends.

That's how you pick them up. When the criminal is NOT being a violent criminal and being a regular civilian and when you're still a cop.

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