The Offseason thread

[pepe1991]

Watch on YouTube

kind a solid explanation with Magic issue.

They simply are stuck. Even if they opt for another rebuild, it's just more mediocre player, more dead salary, more eggs in lottery basket that could just as easly play out as it did in 2013-16 tanking

[zaymon]

Watch on YouTube

kind a solid explanation with Magic issue.

They simply are stuck. Even if they opt for another rebuild, it's just more mediocre player, more dead salary, more eggs in lottery basket that could just as easly play out as it did in 2013-16 tanking

I think there is also more positive way to look at it. We are flexible. We are not stuck, we can go in many directions actually. You can think we are stuck if you dont have ideas how to move forward.
1. We can resign Dj and MCW. Fournier opts in. We draft with #15(Bolmaro or Pokusevski stash) and #45 (Winston). Good scenario if we are not pleased with AG offers. We can showcase him some more, this time with more shooting ( Okeke, Fultz makes progress)
2. We can retool trading Gordon for future picks, players on rookie contracts or somebody like Levert, Hayward . Aminu and Okeke starting. More balanced aproach.
3. Trading Vucevic and Gordon ( preferably to GSW). We rebuild in a year without Isaac, try to get Cunningham. Fournier trade before allstar break to highest bidder.
4. We can even trade some of our younger players for proven veterans. I am against it but its still an option

We would be stuck if we had no young talent, no veterans on movable contracts, no picks. We are basically the opposite of stuck. Is any of those scenarios a path to contention ? Who knows....

[Howard Mass]

I think if he opts in, he's getting traded. So it's up to Fournier to decide whether he wants to opt out and decide his own destination in a rather dry free agency market, or keep his $17 million for next season and just play where ever he gets traded to.

I'd watch the Sacramento Kings. Buddy Hield is clearly on the trading block after getting an extension last off-season. He was openly not pleased with his role off the bench this year. Hield getting traded is almost assured. Fournier, who apparently dreams to play for the Kings?, could be sent to the Kings as an expiring contract for Hield once the extension kicks in. You could argue Hield isn't that much of an upgrade over Fournier. I personally think he's a better fit on this team as a player who doesn't need the ball in his hands and can play well off a guard like Fultz. For his career, he shoots 41% from 3. Their efficiency is similar, but Hield's BPM and VORP are consistently higher than Fournier's. They're both weak defenders. But, I think Hield's shooting and offensive potential is better than Fournier's.

Help Evan Fournier's dream come true.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I'd love it if The Magic could acquire Buddy Hield.

Big fan of making a move for him.

[Ducklett]

Watch on YouTube

kind a solid explanation with Magic issue.

They simply are stuck. Even if they opt for another rebuild, it's just more mediocre player, more dead salary, more eggs in lottery basket that could just as easly play out as it did in 2013-16 tanking

I think there is also more positive way to look at it. We are flexible. We are not stuck, we can go in many directions actually. You can think we are stuck if you dont have ideas how to move forward.
1. We can resign Dj and MCW. Fournier opts in. We draft with #15(Bolmaro or Pokusevski stash) and #45 (Winston). Good scenario if we are not pleased with AG offers. We can showcase him some more, this time with more shooting ( Okeke, Fultz makes progress)
2. We can retool trading Gordon for future picks, players on rookie contracts or somebody like Levert, Hayward . Aminu and Okeke starting. More balanced aproach.
3. Trading Vucevic and Gordon ( preferably to GSW). We rebuild in a year without Isaac, try to get Cunningham. Fournier trade before allstar break to highest bidder.
4. We can even trade some of our younger players for proven veterans. I am against it but its still an option

We would be stuck if we had no young talent, no veterans on movable contracts, no picks. We are basically the opposite of stuck. Is any of those scenarios a path to contention ? Who knows....

Yall been saying this for YEARS and nothing has changed.

We might have young players but we don't have any young talent, at least not yet.

[Knightro]

Whether they should or they shouldn't, I simply do not believe that Magic ownership is going to allow this front office to make trades that will send the Magic significantly backwards.

I genuinely believe the organization would rather win between 35-45 games and make the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed than they would be in the bottom five winning 20-25 games.

Just can't see Vucevic being traded.

Could see Gordon moved, if only because he could bring a decent return and they will have Aminu, Okeke and Clark to fill the power forward position next year.

Otherwise, I expect more of the same. A mostly veteran-laden roster with Clifford grinding out wins against the bottom feeders and the Magic putting up little fight against the better teams.

If the Magic stay super healthy next year and get some breaks, they could maybe match what they did in Clifford's first year. Somewhere in the 40-45 win range and like a 6 or 7 seed.

But if they have normal health, they're firmly in that 35-40 win range and battling for the 8 seed.

[MasterGMer]

Whether they should or they shouldn't, I simply do not believe that Magic ownership is going to allow this front office to make trades that will send the Magic significantly backwards.

I genuinely believe the organization would rather win between 35-45 games and make the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed than they would be in the bottom five winning 20-25 games.

Just can't see Vucevic being traded.

Could see Gordon moved, if only because he could bring a decent return and they will have Aminu, Okeke and Clark to fill the power forward position next year.

Otherwise, I expect more of the same. A mostly veteran-laden roster with Clifford grinding out wins against the bottom feeders and the Magic putting up little fight against the better teams.

If the Magic stay super healthy next year and get some breaks, they could maybe match what they did in Clifford's first year. Somewhere in the 40-45 win range and like a 6 or 7 seed.

But if they have normal health, they're firmly in that 35-40 win range and battling for the 8 seed.

What is the point of winning 40-45 games and lose in the first round of playoff by a better team? PHI did it and Brett Brown got fired. Pacers did it and McMillan got fired. The goal of rebuilding is always to avoid mediocrity and win championships.

I do not want Magic to bring it back again next season. I think AG is gone.

[Def Swami]

Whether they should or they shouldn't, I simply do not believe that Magic ownership is going to allow this front office to make trades that will send the Magic significantly backwards.

I genuinely believe the organization would rather win between 35-45 games and make the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed than they would be in the bottom five winning 20-25 games.

Just can't see Vucevic being traded.

Could see Gordon moved, if only because he could bring a decent return and they will have Aminu, Okeke and Clark to fill the power forward position next year.

Otherwise, I expect more of the same. A mostly veteran-laden roster with Clifford grinding out wins against the bottom feeders and the Magic putting up little fight against the better teams.

If the Magic stay super healthy next year and get some breaks, they could maybe match what they did in Clifford's first year. Somewhere in the 40-45 win range and like a 6 or 7 seed.

But if they have normal health, they're firmly in that 35-40 win range and battling for the 8 seed.

What is the point of winning 40-45 games and lose in the first round of playoff by a better team? PHI did it and Brett Brown got fired. Pacers did it and McMillan got fired. The goal of rebuilding is always to avoid mediocrity and win championships.

I do not want Magic to bring it back again next season. I think AG is gone.

I agree with you, but I believe our goals are not aligned with those of the ownership. They would rather have mediocrity year in and year out as long as it means selling "PLAYOFFS" to season ticket holders and casual fans. They're too concerned about the potential hit to loss of TV ratings, attendance, and fan interest.

And I get it. It's really hard to tank or be bad in a small market for all the financial reasons. I also believe if the intent is to maintain some level of competitiveness, your front office has to be A1. They have to be great at scouting, drafting, developing players, trades, free agency, etc. They basically have to be the Miami Heat, Denver Nuggets, or Utah Jazz. It's possible to try to be good and get better at the same time. Over 3 years, that's what Weltman and Hammond's vision was supposed to be. They just haven't produced the same way those other franchises have.

[Skybox]

Whether they should or they shouldn't, I simply do not believe that Magic ownership is going to allow this front office to make trades that will send the Magic significantly backwards.

I genuinely believe the organization would rather win between 35-45 games and make the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed than they would be in the bottom five winning 20-25 games.

Just can't see Vucevic being traded.

Could see Gordon moved, if only because he could bring a decent return and they will have Aminu, Okeke and Clark to fill the power forward position next year.

Otherwise, I expect more of the same. A mostly veteran-laden roster with Clifford grinding out wins against the bottom feeders and the Magic putting up little fight against the better teams.

If the Magic stay super healthy next year and get some breaks, they could maybe match what they did in Clifford's first year. Somewhere in the 40-45 win range and like a 6 or 7 seed.

But if they have normal health, they're firmly in that 35-40 win range and battling for the 8 seed.

What is the point of winning 40-45 games and lose in the first round of playoff by a better team? PHI did it and Brett Brown got fired. Pacers did it and McMillan got fired. The goal of rebuilding is always to avoid mediocrity and win championships.

I do not want Magic to bring it back again next season. I think AG is gone.

I really hate the" new" (probably 20 years?) playoff format of every series going best of 7 games. It pretty much eliminates upsets and, IMO, interest in the early rounds. I'm not saying ORL wins in 4, but it just takes away hope of a cheap thrill, a playoff success building block even if Cinderella gets smashed in the second round. It's why March Madness is SO much better than NBA playoffs (and I hardly follow NCAA anymore)...point is, it's tougher than ever to grow organically...it's either a group of UFA's taking their talents somewhere or a whole lot of luck and patience with the draft. Lack of upsets in the playoffs definitely makes "winning" the 7th or 8th seed more of a curse than a goal.

[Def Swami]

If Fournier opts-in, he's on the trade block immediately. It's probably a better scenario for us that he opts-in. Him opting out is just losing an asset for nothing.

Read on Twitter

[TheGlyde]

Whether they should or they shouldn't, I simply do not believe that Magic ownership is going to allow this front office to make trades that will send the Magic significantly backwards.

I genuinely believe the organization would rather win between 35-45 games and make the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed than they would be in the bottom five winning 20-25 games.

Just can't see Vucevic being traded.

Could see Gordon moved, if only because he could bring a decent return and they will have Aminu, Okeke and Clark to fill the power forward position next year.

Otherwise, I expect more of the same. A mostly veteran-laden roster with Clifford grinding out wins against the bottom feeders and the Magic putting up little fight against the better teams.

If the Magic stay super healthy next year and get some breaks, they could maybe match what they did in Clifford's first year. Somewhere in the 40-45 win range and like a 6 or 7 seed.

But if they have normal health, they're firmly in that 35-40 win range and battling for the 8 seed.

What is the point of winning 40-45 games and lose in the first round of playoff by a better team? PHI did it and Brett Brown got fired. Pacers did it and McMillan got fired. The goal of rebuilding is always to avoid mediocrity and win championships.

I do not want Magic to bring it back again next season. I think AG is gone.

I see a lot of people confused on the board thinking that posts like Knightro's are what he wants to happen

I think this is just what he sees as the most realistic outcome, and I think given the combination of the following three factors, all us hardcore fans who have had enough of the current lineup need to temper expectations.

1. The pandemic basketball era.
- No teams would have made money this year. No fans means teams have 40% less revenue, but the players didn't take a 40% paycut, so those salaries get paid, and the teams lose money.
- I don't know the specifics of where the other 60% comes from, but I am guessing its a mix of TV deals, revenue sharing, sponsorship deals and merchandise (maybe other things).
- The Magic have a 10 year deal with Fox Sports Florida that runs through to 2025-26, but the extension was negotiated in 2013 even though it didn't start until 2016-17... So the Magic and Fox could be negotiating an extension in say 2022 and the more games the Magic are winning by that point is going to mean the potential for a bigger local TV contract.
- Last season at the All Star break the Magic had the lowest ratings in the league, but the playoff run saw a substantial increase in TV ratings. Casual fans drive ratings and they care more about who wins the game than who is on the team or who takes the shots.
- If the Magic go into another 3+ year rebuild, ratings will further tank and this will undoubtedly cost the team millions on that TV deal, and as we saw this year, they have to play a certain number of games to even get that money and that is not a given in the pandemic era.
- Some small market teams have expressed fears about whether revenue sharing would continue in the pandemic era, as larger market teams may have to worry about themselves first.
- Team sponsorship deals will be driven by wins firtly, and then things like TV ratings and ticketsales (when fans are back). As above TV ratings and ticket sales are driven by casuals which are driven by wins.
- With merchandise I think there are two groups of people who buy things, there are the hardcores who will buy the latest items no matter what team is on the floor (and hate themselves for it), and the casuals who will buy merch if the Magic make the playoffs. I 100% agree that many of the hardcores are turned off by the roster and will buy less gear, but 50 hardcores buying less gear doesn't outweight the 1000 casuals that will buy a 2020 playoff shirt.
- Overall, in the pandemic era with no ticket sales, playoffs will equate to the team losing less money.

2. The China money drying up/friction with China, and the size of the salary cap
- Pepe has spoken about this a lot and he would be a better person to drop knowledge, but it is pretty clear the Yao inspired China honeymoon period that saw salaries and revenue grow exponentially, has dried up.
- Tensions between China and the US governments have trickled across to the population bases, with Americans upset that the NBA is taking a stand on local human rights issues (BLM), but not international ones (Hong Kong etc).
- For anyone who can look at the NBA's position objectively as a business you can see they are in a tough spot, and they are trying to toe a very shaky line that equates to the least money loss: ie Standing up for international humanitarian issues will mean losing more money (through further alienating China), while Not standing up for domestic humanitarian issues will mean losing more money (through upsetting players, causing strikes and then losing TV revenue if no games are played). For those paying close enough attention, it is of course a somewhat hypocritical stance (I only say somewhat because if your kid has cancer, and you drive the cause for cancer, people shouldn't really be asking you why you aren't pushing the cause for diabetes as well).
- Both of the above issues point to the salary cap shrinking, (possibly dramatically, unless fans can be let back in buildings next season).

3. The NBA changes to tanking rules.
- Let's say the Magic decide well yeah, pandemic, China money, I don't care, we need to blow it up and take a risk. Ship AG, Vuc and Evan off for picks, young players, and bad contracts as filler...
- The New York Knicks won 21 games this season and they get the #8 pick in the draft.
- The Magic are not a marquee destination for big name free agents, they can no expect to accrue cap space and sign a game changer.
- How much more money do the Magic lose if they have a 21win season? TV ratings and Merch sales would be even further in the toilet, when fans are allowed back, the ticket sales are in the toilet...
- The 50 hardcores will sit in the stands and watch Fultz' reverse layups and fawn over his midrange game, analyse how his 3 point shot is coming along...
- The 1000 casuals come along to the game if word on the street is the Magic are winning, and do something else it if they are not.

So you add it all up and I think Knightro isn't saying 'lets run it back' I think he is saying if you take a step back and look at the worldwide picture of how current events are impacting the NBA, you can make some fairly confident predictions;
- Cliff will be back. Us hardcores care about rotations, we care about in game adjustments, we care about developing young talent. The Magic brass care about wins and putting the players who are the best today on the court. As much as we may hate to admit it, Cliff got a team missing two starters and 5 of its top 10 (or 11) players to the playoffs, won a game in the first round (more that the Pacers, 76ers and Nets could do), and competed fairly well in most of the games.
- Evan will opt in. No team would offer him more than $17milion, and he will be better off hoping that the pandemic is over by the end of next season rather than sign a multi-year deal now that could leave millions on the table if things improve. He could be traded at the deadline but it would depend how the Magic were playing next season (If they are playing well, they may just keep him rather than move him for a player that could disrupt a playoff run or take on bad money).
- Given no Isaac next season, Gordon will probably not be traded until at least at the trade deadline, and then only if either the Magic are underperforming, or if Aminu/Okeke have showed they can plug the gap at forward until Isaac is back.
- Vucevic I don't see being moved, because as much as he is maligned by many on this board, he does provide a modern NBA skillset and if healthy will keep the Magic in the playoff hunt no matter what other pieces are shuffled around him. Like him or hate him, for now he is our cornerstone peeps.
- DJ/MCW. I predict only one of these two will be brought back. MCW will be cheaper but he can't shoot. Having two PGs who can't shoot is not ideal in todays NBA. Despite that personally I would prefer MCW be brought back over DJ just due to his tenacity, but my prediction is DJ on a 1-2 year deal while they either draft a PG at #15 or rotate through 3rd string minimum guys/2nd round picks hoping to unearth someone who can backup Fultz when DJ's deal expires.
- Ennis. I predict he opts out of his contract but the Magic may bring him back. He is a good fit for what the Magic are trying to accomplish (Play tough, low turnover, shoot reasonably, don't overplay your skillset, win games with effort).
- Clark. I predict the Magic give him a contract similar to Khem Birch's kind of range and he comes back, though if Okeke is as good as hoped he may regret it as Cliff will give Aminu big minutes.
- Iwundu/Frazier. I predict they are both gone. Iwundu should latch on somewhere but Frazier might be G-League bound.
- Isaac. I don't predict he is given an extension given the above climates unless he can be had for a bargain price the Magic will wait to see if he can stay healthy upon return.
- Fultz, is honestly hardest to predict for me. The Magic locked him in for 2020-21 for 12.3million before he even played a game for the Magic. They showed confidence in the kid and it payed off with him having a strong season this year. Will they try and sign him to an extension given all the financial uncertainty above, and continue to show confidence in him? Or will they risk making him wait while the NBA's finances shake out, make him proove himself more, and risk either losing him or him costing more money to sign if he blows up next year...

[basketballRob]

I could see a scenario where Fournier opts in and we let him play out his contract. If we trade AG for James Johnson and a pick or Kelly Oubre, they're both expiring contracts. Assuming we sign Fultz and Isaac to reasonable contracts, we could have enough to sign a max player in 2021.

I wouldn't mind a lineup of Vuc, Aminu, Oubre, Fournier, and Fultz for one more year. Maybe they could retain DJ for a season.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[MasterGMer]

Whether they should or they shouldn't, I simply do not believe that Magic ownership is going to allow this front office to make trades that will send the Magic significantly backwards.

I genuinely believe the organization would rather win between 35-45 games and make the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed than they would be in the bottom five winning 20-25 games.

Just can't see Vucevic being traded.

Could see Gordon moved, if only because he could bring a decent return and they will have Aminu, Okeke and Clark to fill the power forward position next year.

Otherwise, I expect more of the same. A mostly veteran-laden roster with Clifford grinding out wins against the bottom feeders and the Magic putting up little fight against the better teams.

If the Magic stay super healthy next year and get some breaks, they could maybe match what they did in Clifford's first year. Somewhere in the 40-45 win range and like a 6 or 7 seed.

But if they have normal health, they're firmly in that 35-40 win range and battling for the 8 seed.

What is the point of winning 40-45 games and lose in the first round of playoff by a better team? PHI did it and Brett Brown got fired. Pacers did it and McMillan got fired. The goal of rebuilding is always to avoid mediocrity and win championships.

I do not want Magic to bring it back again next season. I think AG is gone.

I see a lot of people confused on the board thinking that posts like Knightro's are what he wants to happen

I think this is just what he sees as the most realistic outcome, and I think given the combination of the following three factors, all us hardcore fans who have had enough of the current lineup need to temper expectations.

1. The pandemic basketball era.
- No teams would have made money this year. No fans means teams have 40% less revenue, but the players didn't take a 40% paycut, so those salaries get paid, and the teams lose money.
- I don't know the specifics of where the other 60% comes from, but I am guessing its a mix of TV deals, revenue sharing, sponsorship deals and merchandise (maybe other things).
- The Magic have a 10 year deal with Fox Sports Florida that runs through to 2025-26, but the extension was negotiated in 2013 even though it didn't start until 2016-17... So the Magic and Fox could be negotiating an extension in say 2022 and the more games the Magic are winning by that point is going to mean the potential for a bigger local TV contract.
- Last season at the All Star break the Magic had the lowest ratings in the league, but the playoff run saw a substantial increase in TV ratings. Casual fans drive ratings and they care more about who wins the game than who is on the team or who takes the shots.
- If the Magic go into another 3+ year rebuild, ratings will further tank and this will undoubtedly cost the team millions on that TV deal, and as we saw this year, they have to play a certain number of games to even get that money and that is not a given in the pandemic era.
- Some small market teams have expressed fears about whether revenue sharing would continue in the pandemic era, as larger market teams may have to worry about themselves first.
- Team sponsorship deals will be driven by wins firtly, and then things like TV ratings and ticketsales (when fans are back). As above TV ratings and ticket sales are driven by casuals which are driven by wins.
- With merchandise I think there are two groups of people who buy things, there are the hardcores who will buy the latest items no matter what team is on the floor (and hate themselves for it), and the casuals who will buy merch if the Magic make the playoffs. I 100% agree that many of the hardcores are turned off by the roster and will buy less gear, but 50 hardcores buying less gear doesn't outweight the 1000 casuals that will buy a 2020 playoff shirt.
- Overall, in the pandemic era with no ticket sales, playoffs will equate to the team losing less money.

2. The China money drying up/friction with China, and the size of the salary cap
- Pepe has spoken about this a lot and he would be a better person to drop knowledge, but it is pretty clear the Yao inspired China honeymoon period that saw salaries and revenue grow exponentially, has dried up.
- Tensions between China and the US governments have trickled across to the population bases, with Americans upset that the NBA is taking a stand on local human rights issues (BLM), but not international ones (Hong Kong etc).
- For anyone who can look at the NBA's position objectively as a business you can see they are in a tough spot, and they are trying to toe a very shaky line that equates to the least money loss: ie Standing up for international humanitarian issues will mean losing more money (through further alienating China), while Not standing up for domestic humanitarian issues will mean losing more money (through upsetting players, causing strikes and then losing TV revenue if no games are played). For those paying close enough attention, it is of course a somewhat hypocritical stance (I only say somewhat because if your kid has cancer, and you drive the cause for cancer, people shouldn't really be asking you why you aren't pushing the cause for diabetes as well).
- Both of the above issues point to the salary cap shrinking, (possibly dramatically, unless fans can be let back in buildings next season).

3. The NBA changes to tanking rules.
- Let's say the Magic decide well yeah, pandemic, China money, I don't care, we need to blow it up and take a risk. Ship AG, Vuc and Evan off for picks, young players, and bad contracts as filler...
- The New York Knicks won 21 games this season and they get the #8 pick in the draft.
- The Magic are not a marquee destination for big name free agents, they can no expect to accrue cap space and sign a game changer.
- How much more money do the Magic lose if they have a 21win season? TV ratings and Merch sales would be even further in the toilet, when fans are allowed back, the ticket sales are in the toilet...
- The 50 hardcores will sit in the stands and watch Fultz' reverse layups and fawn over his midrange game, analyse how his 3 point shot is coming along...
- The 1000 casuals come along to the game if word on the street is the Magic are winning, and do something else it if they are not.

So you add it all up and I think Knightro isn't saying 'lets run it back' I think he is saying if you take a step back and look at the worldwide picture of how current events are impacting the NBA, you can make some fairly confident predictions;
- Cliff will be back. Us hardcores care about rotations, we care about in game adjustments, we care about developing young talent. The Magic brass care about wins and putting the players who are the best today on the court. As much as we may hate to admit it, Cliff got a team missing two starters and 5 of its top 10 (or 11) players to the playoffs, won a game in the first round (more that the Pacers, 76ers and Nets could do), and competed fairly well in most of the games.
- Evan will opt in. No team would offer him more than $17milion, and he will be better off hoping that the pandemic is over by the end of next season rather than sign a multi-year deal now that could leave millions on the table if things improve. He could be traded at the deadline but it would depend how the Magic were playing next season (If they are playing well, they may just keep him rather than move him for a player that could disrupt a playoff run or take on bad money).
- Given no Isaac next season, Gordon will probably not be traded until at least at the trade deadline, and then only if either the Magic are underperforming, or if Aminu/Okeke have showed they can plug the gap at forward until Isaac is back.
- Vucevic I don't see being moved, because as much as he is maligned by many on this board, he does provide a modern NBA skillset and if healthy will keep the Magic in the playoff hunt no matter what other pieces are shuffled around him. Like him or hate him, for now he is our cornerstone peeps.
- DJ/MCW. I predict only one of these two will be brought back. MCW will be cheaper but he can't shoot. Having two PGs who can't shoot is not ideal in todays NBA. Despite that personally I would prefer MCW be brought back over DJ just due to his tenacity, but my prediction is DJ on a 1-2 year deal while they either draft a PG at #15 or rotate through 3rd string minimum guys/2nd round picks hoping to unearth someone who can backup Fultz when DJ's deal expires.
- Ennis. I predict he opts out of his contract but the Magic may bring him back. He is a good fit for what the Magic are trying to accomplish (Play tough, low turnover, shoot reasonably, don't overplay your skillset, win games with effort).
- Clark. I predict the Magic give him a contract similar to Khem Birch's kind of range and he comes back, though if Okeke is as good as hoped he may regret it as Cliff will give Aminu big minutes.
- Iwundu/Frazier. I predict they are both gone. Iwundu should latch on somewhere but Frazier might be G-League bound.
- Isaac. I don't predict he is given an extension given the above climates unless he can be had for a bargain price the Magic will wait to see if he can stay healthy upon return.
- Fultz, is honestly hardest to predict for me. The Magic locked him in for 2020-21 for 12.3million before he even played a game for the Magic. They showed confidence in the kid and it payed off with him having a strong season this year. Will they try and sign him to an extension given all the financial uncertainty above, and continue to show confidence in him? Or will they risk making him wait while the NBA's finances shake out, make him proove himself more, and risk either losing him or him costing more money to sign if he blows up next year...

I don't want to tank either and I like Coach Clifford a lot. What I mean is to reject the status quo by being a mediocre playoff team. Instead, we need to think about making moves to improve the roster. We might not get exactly what we want but we can invest in the future.

I think we will sign both JI and Fultz to a larger contract when their RFA comes up. JI and Fultz are our future, no matter the injury or obstacles they face.

This year's Playoff was tough, without AG, MCW, JI, Okeke and Aminu plus Bamba. Those are all key rotational players on the team.

I think this team is built to trade AG. He might be the only chip we have as an asset in the trade market. Suns wanted him and GSW might be interested in AG also. Who knows?

If I were the GM, I will seriously think about getting the No.2 pick and Wiggins this year.

[swarlesbarkley]

I'd watch Fultz, Wiggins, Okeke, AG, and Bamba next year. We'd lose a lot but we'd also probably have a lot of fun.

[The Effect]

Man I hate watching this Denver Utah series and seeing Murray and Mitchell.......
Those two remind me not only of how orlando isn't on the same level as the truly elite teams, but how fair away we really are

[zaymon]

Saying our ownership is too cheap too tank is not fair imo. We have been intentionally tanking for many years ( well some of it intenionally). Weltman has always drafted the rawest, highest upside prospects available ( or injured), he intentionally overloaded roster with wings/forwards becouse they have the highest trade value( sacrificing some team balance), he has traded for redemption project instead of veterans. I dont see the mediocrity strategy here.

[pepe1991]

I'd watch Fultz, Wiggins, Okeke, AG, and Bamba next year. We'd lose a lot but we'd also probably have a lot of fun.

You would, most of fans would not.
History proved that Orlando Magic fans have zero interest in watching sub 25 wins young team getting steamrolled during 60% of games.
During Magic 2013-2019 period, tv ratings were dumpster fire, as team was dumpster fire.

During 2015 Magic had huge bump during opening game, as there was some hope team is turning around ( Dipo, Payton, rookie Hezonja, Gordon ). But as soon as team went to ***t , viewership slipped.

From team perspective, any lineup with Fultz and Wiggins is instant tank team as it's guaranteed teams offense won't pass bottom 5 in ratings due no shooting, and odds are, below average on defense as well.

In whole Wiggins thing people simply can't wrap their heads around fact that he is negative asset.
Not only that he is 26 next year, that he is negative contributor from playing pespective, he is also payed freaking $32M a year.

Whole business side of nba, given outside factors ( dry and declining economy, empty arenas, moving less merchandise ) and NBAPA not taking paycuts for now ,yet salary decline is pending and ongoing , and it looks like inevitable scenario, you can easly end up being in situation where in 2021-22 you pay Andrew Wiggins 1/3 of your whole cap space. Good luck with that contract.

Some experts belive that salary will shrink from projected $115M to $90M.
And this reports were before it was announced that nba bubble is actually not watched at all.
Not only that all nba games have crappy ratings, nba talk shows are on huge decline as well.

And now, mix in with it political crap, that half of fans simply hate as politics don't belong in sports in general, and even Trump call for boycot

[Bensational]

Throwing this out for discussion, but I found these numbers interesting.

I understand the DJ hate and frustration, but look at these lineup splits for 2 man lineups.

In our wins, DJ is most frequent amongst our top performing 2 man lineups. Hate him all you want, he doesn't hurt the team on paper, and seems to be bringing out the best in most of our guys. Maybe he's better than we give him credit for?

Fultz isn't as prevalent in the successful lineups, though he is #3 with Iwundu, which is interesting. Indicator of a potential future tandem? Wes is hopefully on track to be James Ennis, with better ball handling and decision making.

Either way, I think WeHam see things like that and value DJ as a steadying hand more than most fans do. So I'm 99% sure they'll keep him.

If they let him go, that's a big gamble on Fultz being able to step up and carry the team.

[Bensational]

One thing WeHam might be nervous about is 'the future' and the state of the youth they've brought in. They've done well in polishing what was handed over, but none of their youth have been able to stay healthy enough to contribute significantly.

Fultz doesn't look like someone ready to take over a team. Isaac is out at least another season. Bamba is unknown. Okeke has yet to set foot on a court for us.

That's the one thing they might look to be more aggressive on this offseason. Stockpiling some backup options. Because they know the standard the team can run at as is, but what takes them further? That, even they would be worried about, surely.

[Knightro]

Saying our ownership is too cheap too tank is not fair imo. We have been intentionally tanking for many years ( well some of it intenionally). Weltman has always drafted the rawest, highest upside prospects available ( or injured), he intentionally overloaded roster with wings/forwards becouse they have the highest trade value( sacrificing some team balance), he has traded for redemption project instead of veterans. I dont see the mediocrity strategy here.

Your conflating draft strategy and roster management with tanking and those two things aren't connected in this case.

The fact is, the Magic are actively trying to win as many games as they can every year. They hired Steve Clifford who is one of the most "we're going to grind out victories, particularly in March and April when most bad teams are really packing it in" coaches in the sport for goodness sake. There is zero hint of anything other than "we want to field the best team we can" going on at this point and time.

Tanking is when a team decides at the organizational level that they are not concerned with winning basketball games on a nightly basis. The main objective shifts away from competitiveness and towards the accumulate of assets in the form of draft picks and financial flexibility in the hopes of being able to acquire a star talent or multiple star talents via the draft. Then in a perfect world, you'd have extra assets (picks/cap space) available for supplement your drafted stars with additional talent.

The only seasons in recent history that the Magic were actively TRYING to be bad were the three Rob Hennigan/Jacque Vaughn years.

Once they hired Scott Skiles and later Frank Vogel, the goals of the organization shifted. They were actively trying to win games and just didn't because of how inept they built the rosters in those seasons.

The fan support eroded so badly when the Magic tried to tank last time that I just don't see a situation where ownership would go for it again anytime soon.

Like many others have pointed out, when you're in a small market like the Magic are in and don't have a particularly big local television contract, you gotta keep the arena packed.

The Magic will tell you (whether this is actually true or not is firmly up-for-debate, but that's a different conversation) that they can't survive without a building full of people who are paying for parking, buying concessions, spending money on merchandise in the team shop, etc. Local businesses need to keep buying the luxury suites. Fans who can't come to the games need to be watching them on TV.

But when the team is intentionally trying to be bad, casual fans (and a lot of serious fans if we're being candid) check out and simply stop giving money to the organization in the form of buying tickets, merch, watching on television etc. I just don't believe the Magic are willingly going to go down that path again anytime soon.

[pepe1991]

I would try to reboot whole thing. Use Gordon, Bamba, Evan (after PO ) to add more versitale or simply more talented younger players.

For example you can trade to Bulls : Gordon and our pick for their pick and Thad Young ( + additional salary dump)

Magic add veteran PF and whoever they pick. They don't really get any worst today, yet have better upside via pick.


If Wiseman is out of table for Hornets, offer them Bamba and Gordon for pick and salary dump. (draft whoever)

Hield and Bjelica for Evan and Gordon? Throw in their 12# pick and go for it.

Ntilikina and Portis for Gordon and filler ? Why not? Just add pick