NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs

[Red Larrivee]

I understand the moral indignation, but the facts are still in dispute.

The defense attorney (who could be lying) says he was asked to provide security for the business, and that's when he was attacked.

Rosenbaum apparently threw something at him, then a shot rang out (unclear who fired).

That's when Rittenhouse shot, then got chased.

Read on Twitter

Nobody yet KNOWS exactly what happened.

None of this means a damn thing. His actions are a result of the situation he sought out.

The fact that he's still alive to go through the justice system is an example of the frustration that so many have in this country.

[musiqsoulchild]

There is not even a question in my kind that business message have the right to defend themselves.

Just like how protesters can protest peacefully.

However, there are some actions that once started...cause a chain of events where it doesnt matter who is right or wrong.

The only party I blame in this is Kenosha PD.

So the violent protesters that were destroying buildings and property have no blame in these situations? That's a really weird take to me. Like literally, none of this happens if people aren't criminally protesting and destroying property.

I get why people are protesting, and I get why there is pent up rage and those protests turn violent, but my guess is the Kenosha PD doesn't have remotely the resources to properly manage a violent protest.

Nope they dont.

Ultimately, if the Cops used resources from local areas...then they are responsible for the blowback that comes from it.

I guarantee you that there will be phone calls and an electronic trail of communication linking Militia members to the Cops leading upto that event and after that event.

The WORST thing is that Kyle went all the way back to Antioch and then only after social media showed up and did its thing surrendered himself.

That's all choreographed. Surrendering himself makes him look responsible.

There is no question in my mind that the Militia and Kyle had the explicit blessing of at least 2 Police departments ( Antioch and Kenosha).

[musiqsoulchild]

I'll try to put this in context:

Do you understand why a lot of Black people were happy that OJ escaped punishment?

Because, FINALLY, one of their own was able to "white people" the system. They didnt care if he was guilt or not...just that he had the privilege and the power to afford a lawyer to beat the system.

The converse will apply here.

Just like Dylann Roof was carefully placed into custody, the way Kyle was handled by cops AFTER the incidents show a lot of bias ( latent, subconscious etc).

You cannot separate the emotion from this situation with cold legalese and logic.

[dougthonus]

Nope they dont.

Ultimately, if the Cops used resources from local areas...then they are responsible for the blowback that comes from it.

I guarantee you that there will be phone calls and an electronic trail of communication linking Militia members to the Cops leading upto that event and after that event.

The WORST thing is that Kyle went all the way back to Antioch and then only after social media showed up and did its thing surrendered himself.

That's all choreographed. Surrendering himself makes him look responsible.

There is no question in my mind that the Militia and Kyle had the explicit blessing of at least 2 Police departments ( Antioch and Kenosha).

Yeah, the cops relying on militia is ridiculous and crazy. Attempt to call in the national guard or get other police resources if you can or whatever. Completely agree. That is absolutely part of the element of fault here.

That said, this situation simply doesn't happen if a ton of people don't decide to go out and burn down the town and destroy everything in sight. There is only a lack of police to deal with this situation because a riotous mob has formed to commit an amount of crime too large for the police to handle.

I think it's weird that people have normalized violent, destructive, criminal behavior as if because it is supporting racial injustice we should not care about destruction of property, theft, or death that has happened in these protests and just blame the police.

[musiqsoulchild]

Nope they dont.

Ultimately, if the Cops used resources from local areas...then they are responsible for the blowback that comes from it.

I guarantee you that there will be phone calls and an electronic trail of communication linking Militia members to the Cops leading upto that event and after that event.

The WORST thing is that Kyle went all the way back to Antioch and then only after social media showed up and did its thing surrendered himself.

That's all choreographed. Surrendering himself makes him look responsible.

There is no question in my mind that the Militia and Kyle had the explicit blessing of at least 2 Police departments ( Antioch and Kenosha).

Yeah, the cops relying on militia is ridiculous and crazy. Attempt to call in the national guard or get other police resources if you can or whatever. Completely agree. That is absolutely part of the element of fault here.

That said, this situation simply doesn't happen if a ton of people don't decide to go out and burn down the town and destroy everything in sight. There is only a lack of police to deal with this situation because a riotous mob has formed to commit an amount of crime too large for the police to handle.

I think it's weird that people have normalized violent, destructive, criminal behavior as if because it is supporting racial injustice we should not care about destruction of property, theft, or death that has happened in these protests and just blame the police.

Your last paragraph...I try to read that like I am Black. I am not.

I imagine that a lot of older black people have actually normalized themselves to violent, destructive and legally sanctioned criminal behavior for centuries now.

Younger black people - now that they see it in social media - which didnt exist in the past, are a lot more aware of what needs to happen.

I'd say the same for younger white and any other race or peoples that are committed to rebalancing systemic racism.

I think they've had enough. And things are at a head.

Guess who is playing up on that by calling them "thugs" and sending in the national guard.

This is all political now. For one side.

For another its about survival.

[Shill]

Your last paragraph...I try to read that like I am Black. I am not.

I imagine that a lot of older black people have actually normalized themselves to violent, destructive and legally sanctioned criminal behavior for centuries now.

Younger black people - now that they see it in social media - which didnt exist in the past, are a lot more aware of what needs to happen.

I'd say the same for younger white and any other race or peoples that are committed to rebalancing systemic racism.

I think they've had enough. And things are at a head.

Guess who is playing up on that by calling them "thugs" and sending in the national guard.

This is all political now. For one side.

For another its about survival.

I am black, and I don't see the police protests as a fight for "survival."

I don't speak for all black people, and others don't speak for me.

I think we're in the throes of a moral panic based on emotional anecdotes, i.e. the cops are systemically killing black people.

It's not true.

Roughly 1,000 people are killed by the police every year, and a little over 200 are black.

Of those 200+, around 15-20 are unarmed.

For the sake of argument, let's stipulate that ALL 200+ shootings were unjustified and emblematic of racism.

That still leaves 6,500-7,000 black people killed every year by someone other than the police.

If we want to talk about the reasons why that is, we can, but we're not. Not really.

We SHOULD be talking about ending the war on drugs, which would significantly reduce the number of police interactions with people in socioeconomically depressed areas.

That won't fix all problems, but it's a start.

[dougthonus]

Your last paragraph...I try to read that like I am Black. I am not.

I imagine that a lot of older black people have actually normalized themselves to violent, destructive and legally sanctioned criminal behavior for centuries now.

Younger black people - now that they see it in social media - which didnt exist in the past, are a lot more aware of what needs to happen.

I'd say the same for younger white and any other race or peoples that are committed to rebalancing systemic racism.

I think they've had enough. And things are at a head.

Guess who is playing up on that by calling them "thugs" and sending in the national guard.

This is all political now. For one side.

For another its about survival.

It's political until a protester destroys your business or home or causes you bodily harm. Literally I know several people this has happened to, whom are devastated and destroyed due to this. I guess screw those people that had nothing to do with systemic racism though and just happened to own a small business in a city where some event happened.

Do you not think they should send in the national guard? Literally, you just said you can't rely on a militia (I agree), and the police are clearly overwhelmed. The national guard is literally whom you call in this situation. Do you think we should just continue to allow a violent mob to go through cities and rampantly destroy things? You think that will somehow heal things?

There are no good choices or solutions here, and I couldn't be anymore anti-Trump, I'm literally in the "vote for anyone but Trump" camp, but I'm not sure what you expect the outcome to be.

It doesn't seem that a reasonable choice is to do nothing and hope people just get bored. I'm all for halting racism and systemic injustice, but you need to stop rioting, looting, and destruction. I don't see how any of these things help those causes, I think they hurt them, quite significantly in fact. Obviously that isn't the majority of the movement, but that is the flashpoint of all of our worst problems right now.

[HomoSapien]

I reordered your post t move this up to the front, because I think it is relevant to address first.

The first person he murdered was shot in the back (or possibly in the back of the head). That person ran at Rittenhouse, but Rittenhouse shot him from behind when he wasn't facing "mortal peril" from him. The guy had already retreated. That's murder. The second guy he shot had a handgun --- that is self-defense.

I've not seen any evidence or seen it presented in video or eyewitness report that Rosenbaum tried to flee and was shot in the back. I did read in the written report he had bullet wounds to the hand, thigh, and back. If the back one was first, then that would obviously be important, but otherwise he gets shot in the hand reaching for the gun, spun around and next shot takes him in the leg or back, then I don't think it's important.

From the eyewitness report, Rosenbaum is shot as he is trying to disarm Rittenhouse after chasing him down, so based on that piece of knowledge (and the video that shows for sure Rosenbaum is at least chasing him), I presume Rosenbaum to be the aggressor.

If there is evidence that shows after chasing him, Rittenhouse stands his ground and Rosenbaum turns and attempts to flee and is then shot in the back, I would completely withdraw every single thing I said, admit that I'm 100% wrong, and beg forgiveness for ever supporting anything about this situation.

That doesn't currently match my understanding of the facts though.

If you can stomach it, rewatch the video. It's a little hard to see at first because it happens fast, but once you rewatch it, it's pretty clear (to me at least) that Rosenbaum is shot while retreating.

That doesn't appear to be what happened though. In terms of the shooting, in both cases he attempts to flee an assailant prior to shooting. He is being chased and threatened. That isn't him playing police and shooting people. Maybe he was playing police earlier or trying to order people around, I don't know, but in the situation where he shoots people that clearly isn't happening.

Obviously everything is "alleged" right now, but there are reports that he was pointing his gun at people in cars and ordering them to get out of their vehicles. If true, that goes beyond simply protecting property.

No one in my fictional situation or in this situation that actually happened fits this description of what happened though. No one just shows up and starts shooting people as you have described. That just isn't what happened as best as I can tell. Seeing above, that if there is some piece of evidence I have missed in this, then I certainly would be very open to changing my opinion.

My point is, regardless of race or motive, I'm not going to condone someone actively seeking out a violent situation and shooting people in the process. That needs to be left for law enforcement.

So you advocate for the protesters to play police and take his gun away?

I don't. I wouldn't have. But it's possible they thought (right or wrong) they had to takedown a soon-to-be active shooter. As you saw later on in the video, the cops had no intention of arresting him (even when he tried to surrender) and were giving him preferential treatment throughout the night.

You have mentioned intent, what do you think the intent of these protesters was this night?

This is a bad question. The protestors aren't one singular person or group. Some may have been exercising their constitutional right to protest. Others may have been looking to destroy property. Some probably got more than they bargained for since cops slashed their tires, and prevented them from leaving. Anyone looting should be arrested by law enforcement.

[musiqsoulchild]

Your last paragraph...I try to read that like I am Black. I am not.

I imagine that a lot of older black people have actually normalized themselves to violent, destructive and legally sanctioned criminal behavior for centuries now.

Younger black people - now that they see it in social media - which didnt exist in the past, are a lot more aware of what needs to happen.

I'd say the same for younger white and any other race or peoples that are committed to rebalancing systemic racism.

I think they've had enough. And things are at a head.

Guess who is playing up on that by calling them "thugs" and sending in the national guard.

This is all political now. For one side.

For another its about survival.

It's political until a protester destroys your business or home or causes you bodily harm. Literally I know several people this has happened to, whom are devastated and destroyed due to this. I guess screw those people that had nothing to do with systemic racism though and just happened to own a small business in a city where some event happened, they had it coming for sure.

Do you not think they should send in the national guard? Literally, you just said you can't rely on a militia (I agree), and the police are clearly overwhelmed. The national guard is literally whom you call in this situation. Do you think we should just continue to allow a violent mob to go through cities and rampantly destroy things? You think that will somehow heal things?

There are no good choices or solutions here, and I couldn't be anymore anti-Trump, I'm literally in the "vote for anyone but Trump" camp, but I'm not sure what you expect the outcome to be.

It doesn't seem that a reasonable choice is to do nothing and hope people just get bored.

That leaves protesters with no real coordination other than an email or FB notification that's saying...please come to Place XYZ at time ABC to assemble PEACEFULLY.

What happens then if someone doesn't assemble peacefully?

What happens if the Proud Boys show up or the Bugaloo Boys and make massive destruction and ruckus?

How do you know? How does anyone know?

Cops are supposed to act as one. That's why they have a hierarchy and an organizational structure. And communication protocols and a chain of command.

Protestors have nothing in common other than to protest. So, a few stray incidents MUST not dilute the movement.

If you did let that happen to you ( not you as in you Doug...just a pronoun), then maybe your investment in fighting systemic oppression has some limitations.

I can respect that.

What I cannot respect is calling out the protesters as if they are a SINGLE, HIGHLY COORDINATED organism.

[dougthonus]

If you can stomach it, rewatch the video. It's a little hard to see at first because it happens fast, but once you rewatch it, it's pretty clear (to me at least) that Rosenbaum is shot while retreating.

I don't know of a video that shows Rosenbaum being shot, so I haven't seen this at all, do you have a link?

My point is, regardless of race or motive, I'm not going to condone someone actively seeking out a violent situation and shooting people in the process. That needs to be left for law enforcement.

Agreed. I don't think that's what happened based on my current understanding, but based on the video you have mentioned above, maybe my current understanding will shift rapidly.

I don't. I wouldn't have. But it's possible they thought (right or wrong) they had to takedown a soon-to-be active shooter. As you saw later on in the video, the cops had no intention of arresting him (even when he tried to surrender) and were giving him preferential treatment throughout the night.

Of course, I can completely understand why they felt that way (right or wrong). I can also understand why someone that is being chased and someone by someone that is previously taunted him and is attempting to take his gun away is threatening him (right or wrong).

This is a bad question. The protestors aren't one singular person or one group. Some may have been exercising their constitutional right to protest. Others may have been looking to destroy property. Some probably got more than they bargained for since cops slashed their tires, and prevented them from leaving. Anyone looting should be arrested by law enforcement.

Yeah, good point, intent of protesters in general was surely widely varied. I would assume the same is true of people protecting businesses. Some probably were out there looking to start a fight and have an excuse to create violence and others were out there legitimately trying to protect property.

[musiqsoulchild]

Your last paragraph...I try to read that like I am Black. I am not.

I imagine that a lot of older black people have actually normalized themselves to violent, destructive and legally sanctioned criminal behavior for centuries now.

Younger black people - now that they see it in social media - which didnt exist in the past, are a lot more aware of what needs to happen.

I'd say the same for younger white and any other race or peoples that are committed to rebalancing systemic racism.

I think they've had enough. And things are at a head.

Guess who is playing up on that by calling them "thugs" and sending in the national guard.

This is all political now. For one side.

For another its about survival.

I am black, and I don't see the police protests as a fight for "survival."

I don't speak for all black people, and others don't speak for me.

I think we're in the throes of a moral panic based on emotional anecdotes, i.e. the cops are systemically killing black people.

It's not true.

Roughly 1,000 people are killed by the police every year, and a little over 200 are black.

Of those 200+, around 15-20 are unarmed.

For the sake of argument, let's stipulate that ALL 200+ shootings were unjustified and emblematic of racism.

That still leaves 6,500-7,000 black people killed every year by someone other than the police.

If we want to talk about the reasons why that is, we can, but we're not. Not really.

We SHOULD be talking about ending the war on drugs, which would significantly reduce the number of police interactions with people in socioeconomically depressed areas.

That won't fix all problems, but it's a start.

Cops arent systematically killing people. The system is systematically killing people.

Derick Chauvin just pleaded for his charges to be dismissed.

Arburys killers are asking for the trial area to be changed. And they are coming into court without masks. And asking masks that say "I cant Breathe" to be removed from court.

The Attorney General in the Breonna Taylor case ( Black himself) hasn't moved an inch in that case.

The lawyer couple from St. Louis got a speaking invitation in Day 1 of the RNC and scared the bejeezus out of suburban America.

Kyle just got VIP treatment from half the country. He is already ordained a Patriot.

Can you see how that makes the disenfranchised feel? Can you see how all of that is just confirmation bias of what they have known tibe true for centuries?

[HomoSapien]

Your last paragraph...I try to read that like I am Black. I am not.

I imagine that a lot of older black people have actually normalized themselves to violent, destructive and legally sanctioned criminal behavior for centuries now.

Younger black people - now that they see it in social media - which didnt exist in the past, are a lot more aware of what needs to happen.

I'd say the same for younger white and any other race or peoples that are committed to rebalancing systemic racism.

I think they've had enough. And things are at a head.

Guess who is playing up on that by calling them "thugs" and sending in the national guard.

This is all political now. For one side.

For another its about survival.

It's political until a protester destroys your business or home or causes you bodily harm. Literally I know several people this has happened to, whom are devastated and destroyed due to this. I guess screw those people that had nothing to do with systemic racism though and just happened to own a small business in a city where some event happened, they had it coming for sure.

Do you not think they should send in the national guard? Literally, you just said you can't rely on a militia (I agree), and the police are clearly overwhelmed. The national guard is literally whom you call in this situation. Do you think we should just continue to allow a violent mob to go through cities and rampantly destroy things? You think that will somehow heal things?

There are no good choices or solutions here, and I couldn't be anymore anti-Trump, I'm literally in the "vote for anyone but Trump" camp, but I'm not sure what you expect the outcome to be.

It doesn't seem that a reasonable choice is to do nothing and hope people just get bored.

That leaves protesters with no real coordination other than an email or FB notification that's saying...please come to Place XYZ at time ABC to assemble PEACEFULLY.

What happens then if someone doesn't assemble peacefully?

What happens if the Proud Boys show up or the Bugaloo Boys and make massive destruction and ruckus?

How do you know? How does anyone know?

Cops are supposed to act as one. That's why they have a hierarchy and an organizational structure. And communication protocols and a chain of command.

Protestors have nothing in common other than to protest. So, a few stray incidents MUST not dilute the movement.

If you did let that happen to you ( not you as in you Doug...just a pronoun), then maybe your investment in fighting systemic oppression has some limitations.

I can respect that.

What I cannot respect is calling out the protesters as if they are a SINGLE, HIGHLY COORDINATED organism.

That's a point that people reguarly miss when they talk about BLM protestors as if it's some scary shadow group. Typically when people attend protests, they go with one or two friends. They usually don't know other people at these events, unless they are actual people in the organization. Take the story of Swann Street and the 70+ protestors that were chased into a DC man's house. Those 70+ people did not know one another.

[dougthonus]

Protestors have nothing in common other than to protest. So, a few stray incidents MUST not dilute the movement.

https://nypost.com/2020/08/13/blm-organizer-who-called-looting-reparations-doubles-down/
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/aug/11/ariel-atkins-blm-chicago-organizer-says-looting-is/

This is one of the organizers of the movement. Encouraging criminal and violent behavior, suggesting that only violent revolt will solve this problem.

So this isn't just a few stray incidents. This is the black lives matter organization calling for revolution, endorsing criminal conduct on innocents, etc.. This isn't just some rando that showed up here or an accidental slip of people going a little too far.

If you did let that happen to you ( not you as in you Doug...just a pronoun), then maybe your investment in fighting systemic oppression has some limitations.

Reading the above links, there is absolutely a part of this movement that I believe goes way too far. When people are calling for violence and criminal behavior, then I think that goes too far.

[musiqsoulchild]

Protestors have nothing in common other than to protest. So, a few stray incidents MUST not dilute the movement.

https://nypost.com/2020/08/13/blm-organizer-who-called-looting-reparations-doubles-down/
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/aug/11/ariel-atkins-blm-chicago-organizer-says-looting-is/

This is one of the organizers of the movement. Encouraging criminal and violent behavior, suggesting that only violent revolt will solve this problem.

So this isn't just a few stray incidents. This is the black lives matter organization calling for revolution, endorsing criminal conduct on innocents, etc.. This isn't just some rando that showed up here or an accidental slip of people going a little too far.

If you did let that happen to you ( not you as in you Doug...just a pronoun), then maybe your investment in fighting systemic oppression has some limitations.

Reading the above links, there is absolutely a part of this movement that I believe goes way too far.

I have seen this video before. There are others like that.

There are some who believe BLM should be used to eradicate Latin gangs from Chicago.

I dont condone ANY of that.

Again, every major movement has a few nefarious people under the umbrella of the movement.

That doesnt delegitimize the movement. It shouldn't. If it does, it does. But it shouldnt.

[Shill]

Cops arent systematically killing people. The system is systematically killing people.

Derick Chauvin just pleaded for his charges to be dismissed.

Arburys killers are asking for the trial area to be changed. And they are coming into court without masks. And asking masks that say "I cant Breathe" to be removed from court.

The Attorney General in the Breonna Taylor case ( Black himself) hasn't moved an inch in that case.

The lawyer couple from St. Louis got a speaking invitation in Day 1 of the RNC and scared the bejeezus out of suburban America.

Kyle just got VIP treatment from half the country. He is already ordained a Patriot.

Can you see how that makes the disenfranchised feel? Can you see how all of that is just confirmation bias of what they have known tibe true for centuries?

I'm not going to address this point by point because we don't/won't see eye to eye, but this is the moral panic I'm talking about.

If emotion is the only thing that matters, then we'll always be prisoners of the moment.

Watch on YouTube

[MrSparkle]

Nope they dont.

Ultimately, if the Cops used resources from local areas...then they are responsible for the blowback that comes from it.

I guarantee you that there will be phone calls and an electronic trail of communication linking Militia members to the Cops leading upto that event and after that event.

The WORST thing is that Kyle went all the way back to Antioch and then only after social media showed up and did its thing surrendered himself.

That's all choreographed. Surrendering himself makes him look responsible.

There is no question in my mind that the Militia and Kyle had the explicit blessing of at least 2 Police departments ( Antioch and Kenosha).

Yeah, the cops relying on militia is ridiculous and crazy. Attempt to call in the national guard or get other police resources if you can or whatever. Completely agree. That is absolutely part of the element of fault here.

That said, this situation simply doesn't happen if a ton of people don't decide to go out and burn down the town and destroy everything in sight. There is only a lack of police to deal with this situation because a riotous mob has formed to commit an amount of crime too large for the police to handle.

I think it's weird that people have normalized violent, destructive, criminal behavior as if because it is supporting racial injustice we should not care about destruction of property, theft, or death that has happened in these protests and just blame the police.

Well Doug, I am totally against looting and burning down towns, but I think you have to ask what's in the climate if it's happening (and normalized).

Every single time protests erupted in history, it was caused by these 4 things:

- Students/young adults feeling threatened ideologically
- Mistrust/lack of transparency in the government
- Economic disparity
- Racial/ethnic injustice

The pandemic was just the ignition for all this stuff.

But this is what happens. It doesn't make much imagination to ask what a good, intelligent leader would do. They would plead with the protestors to stop the looting and violence. He would meet with protest leaders and discuss endlessly what can be done.

Trump has been fighting back both with aggressive rhetoric and literally sending in secret service and national guard against city wishes. The POTUS is supposed to be smarter and the "better man" than an angry 20yo, yet he's basically stubbornly duking it out.

You really can't blame the mob... because the mob is a mob. It's chaotic, unpredictable. A practical thing is blaming the leaders. Trump administration is absolutely handling this protest climate as badly as the pandemic: F-

I would say Lori Lightfoot for example, while she has had a tough job, she's made a lot of bad gaffes with the police and protestors. She's also done a bad job. Her and Pritzker have done alright with the pandemic. Atleast they accepted the science. Perhaps economically, their decisions weren't the best in the long-run; we will see.

Rodney King riots lasted less than one week. There has been a big build-up of these Police brutality protests the last 10 years. We have reached a tipping point. I hate to over-simplify this, but to simplify it... the reason we are 4 months into violent riots with no end in sight, is because the POTUS is a sociopath and horrible leader, unwilling to discuss or acknowledge. I mean, he's screaming Law & Order in return. It's like having a misbehaving teenager with major depression issues and continuing to spank them really hard to teach them a lesson.

[Susan]

Rittenhouse KILLED two people.

His history is 100% relevant.

He wasn't victim of police brutality, he was an idiot who murdered people. Jesus this thread is **** depressing.

I'm sorry, are you implying that someone in this situation was a victim of police brutality and that somehow that is relevant? Were his assailants victims of police brutality? How would that factor into their decision to chase him down as a gang while he attempts to flee, get him on the ground, surround him, hit him in the head with a skateboard, then point a gun at him prior to him firing?

Have you watched the video? What do you think he should have done?

You brought up how rightwingers bring up the past victims of police brutality and then equated it to homo bringing up the past of this killer.

I think he shouldn't have played Rambo and shouldn't have brought a **** AR15 to an extremely charged situation as a 17 year old.

**** this kid and his stupid mom for bringing him.

[League Circles]

Your last paragraph...I try to read that like I am Black. I am not.

I imagine that a lot of older black people have actually normalized themselves to violent, destructive and legally sanctioned criminal behavior for centuries now.

Younger black people - now that they see it in social media - which didnt exist in the past, are a lot more aware of what needs to happen.

I'd say the same for younger white and any other race or peoples that are committed to rebalancing systemic racism.

I think they've had enough. And things are at a head.

Guess who is playing up on that by calling them "thugs" and sending in the national guard.

This is all political now. For one side.

For another its about survival.

I am black, and I don't see the police protests as a fight for "survival."

I don't speak for all black people, and others don't speak for me.

I think we're in the throes of a moral panic based on emotional anecdotes, i.e. the cops are systemically killing black people.

It's not true.

Roughly 1,000 people are killed by the police every year, and a little over 200 are black.

Of those 200+, around 15-20 are unarmed.

For the sake of argument, let's stipulate that ALL 200+ shootings were unjustified and emblematic of racism.

That still leaves 6,500-7,000 black people killed every year by someone other than the police.

If we want to talk about the reasons why that is, we can, but we're not. Not really.

We SHOULD be talking about ending the war on drugs, which would significantly reduce the number of police interactions with people in socioeconomically depressed areas.

That won't fix all problems, but it's a start.

Cops arent systematically killing people. The system is systematically killing people.

Derick Chauvin just pleaded for his charges to be dismissed.

Arburys killers are asking for the trial area to be changed. And they are coming into court without masks. And asking masks that say "I cant Breathe" to be removed from court.

The Attorney General in the Breonna Taylor case ( Black himself) hasn't moved an inch in that case.

The lawyer couple from St. Louis got a speaking invitation in Day 1 of the RNC and scared the bejeezus out of suburban America.

Kyle just got VIP treatment from half the country. He is already ordained a Patriot.

Can you see how that makes the disenfranchised feel? Can you see how all of that is just confirmation bias of what they have known tibe true for centuries?

The bold is an absolutely preposterous claim beyond belief.

Of course Chauvin and Arbery's killers are trying to defend themselves. Hopefully it won't work. They should rot forever in jail.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Rittenhouse KILLED two people.

His history is 100% relevant.

He wasn't victim of police brutality, he was an idiot who murdered people. Jesus this thread is **** depressing.

I'm sorry, are you implying that someone in this situation was a victim of police brutality and that somehow that is relevant? Were his assailants victims of police brutality? How would that factor into their decision to chase him down as a gang while he attempts to flee, get him on the ground, surround him, hit him in the head with a skateboard, then point a gun at him prior to him firing?

Have you watched the video? What do you think he should have done?

You brought up how rightwingers bring up the past victims of police brutality and then equated it to homo bringing up the past of this killer.

I think he shouldn't have played Rambo and shouldn't have brought a **** AR15 to an extremely charged situation as a 17 year old.

**** this kid and his stupid mom for bringing him.

Yes, you're right. He should have waited until he turned 18 because that is the real age we send kids out to fight terrorism.

[Chi town]

Protestors have nothing in common other than to protest. So, a few stray incidents MUST not dilute the movement.

https://nypost.com/2020/08/13/blm-organizer-who-called-looting-reparations-doubles-down/
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/aug/11/ariel-atkins-blm-chicago-organizer-says-looting-is/

This is one of the organizers of the movement. Encouraging criminal and violent behavior, suggesting that only violent revolt will solve this problem.

So this isn't just a few stray incidents. This is the black lives matter organization calling for revolution, endorsing criminal conduct on innocents, etc.. This isn't just some rando that showed up here or an accidental slip of people going a little too far.

If you did let that happen to you ( not you as in you Doug...just a pronoun), then maybe your investment in fighting systemic oppression has some limitations.

Reading the above links, there is absolutely a part of this movement that I believe goes way too far.

I have seen this video before. There are others like that.

There are some who believe BLM should be used to eradicate Latin gangs from Chicago.

I dont condone ANY of that.

Again, every major movement has a few nefarious people under the umbrella of the movement.

That doesnt delegitimize the movement. It shouldn't. If it does, it does. But it shouldnt.

Have you been to any protests? I’ve been to 4. One with my son and 3 by myself. One turned violent quick and stuff got crazy. I personally saw plenty of white people stirring the pot and antagonizing and none of them seemed to be for Justice. Didn’t say justice chants or carry signs. Just screamed a lot and were aggressive.

If you think this isn’t organized I don’t know what to tell you as Doug cited above.

The left and BLM needs to demand a stop to violence and looting just like MLK did consistently... and he was criticized for it a lot.

The right needs to recognize and name racism and support police reform.

Militias are INSANE! We know traditionally what type of people join these... let’s just say they aren’t marching w BLM. National Guard has to be sent in before the demonstrations happen. Not after it gets out of hand.

NBA absolutely should have suspended Harrel for his slur against Luka too. Luka says anything about race to him and you know he’s suspended. Racism itself can not be tolerated. The same for all hate speech.