Around The NBA: 2019-20 RESTART

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[R3AL1TY]

Murray is shooting the ball as if it's NBA 2K on the easiest level.

[dice]

I like to compare it to QB progressions. Obviously first read passes are optimal but sometimes the 2-3rd option are a better situation. If you knew it was going to be all first read or nothing (cough cough Mitch) then the defense can overload it.

Same thing with basketball. Sometimes you need the 4th option mid range shot just to keep the defense honest. But obviously 3s and rim is preferred

i think that's a pretty good way of looking at it. but kinda like this:

1st read: open 3 pointer (open jerry rice downfield)
2nd read: contested 3 pointer (tight single coverage on jerry rice downfield)
3rd read: find open man (dump off to running back for short gain)
4th read: open mid-range (allen robinson beginning to separate from defender over the middle)

while if you're a decent QB you're confident in your ability to hit allen robinson over the middle, there's little home run potential and it's not a super high percentage throw either

Yeah I mean mid range shots are much further down reads. That's why in my eyes they are "bail out shots" and why I get frustrated with Lavine's shot selection sometimes.

But it's hard to quantify the balance. Would you rather andre roberson try an open 3 or CP3 a semi contested mid range shot from his go to spot?

The open 3 is the preferred shot but I'd rather bet on cp3 if I had to choose a shot

well, andre roberson is a 25.5% career 3 pt shooter, so...

[dice]

Read on Twitter

"so, uh...maybe we should play it safe and just stay in the bubble another year" - jamal murray in postseason NBAPA meeting

[kodo]

Read on Twitter

He's shooting 59/57/91

[dice]

Not going here right now. We both know midrange setsbutger things up and gets him in rhythm.

we don't know that. we don't know that at all. where's your research? how does shooting a shot that he only shoots at 40% develop a rhythm? how many of those bad shots does he have to take before he feels more comfortable shooting the 3 and is it worth it?

Wonder how these guys would do if the crosses half court and chucked bombs on every possession.

depends on the player. for some of them, better than settling for a mid-ranger. but the obvious point is that neither is a good first option. they're both "settle" shots. i'd bet that not too damn many of kawhi's mid-range shots are early in the shot clock

i love it when people advocate for the mid-range shot after a guy has a good game from there but are radio silent when he doesn't (the majority of games). it's like the grandmother who responds to her granddaughter's pleas to stop smoking with "it can't be that bad for me, i'm 92 and i've been smoking since i was 20." if you narrow your focus to a single game or a single life, you can make an argument for just about anything

Possibly you're right, but I can just imagine if analytics had been around in Jordan's day, and you told he couldn't take any more mid range jumpers and had to focus on 3's primarily.

let's be honest, nobody was going to tell MJ to do anything. but i do think he was a smart enough competitor that he would have adjusted. just as he did to the triangle offense, the concept of which many star players would have turned their nose up at

He was good enough he would have adjusted I imagine, but his whole scoring repetoire was built around fade aways, post ups, and other varieties of mid range shots. I would hate to have seen that taken away from him.

this is clearly part of the reason people dislike the heightened focus on the 3 pt shot - it changes the game from the one they grew up with and pine for. creates less variety

[kodo]

this is clearly part of the reason people dislike the heightened focus on the 3 pt shot - it changes the game from the one they grew up with and pine for. creates less variety

For me it's definitely the less variety, the product feels more homogenous and the NBA popularity was always on based on its individuals, both in personality and play style.

Kawhi probably would be better off shooting mostly 3s, and joining everyone else. He's an incredible shooter from all ranges, there's no reason why he wouldn't be a deadly 3 shooter as well.

3s are also the shot that have the most strict rules about how you can defend them, with post having the most lenient. Post play 1 on 1 matches had more of a competitive element to them. Two guys shooting 3s are mainly watching each other with a hand up, or getting mauled by screens.

[PaKii94]

i think that's a pretty good way of looking at it. but kinda like this:

1st read: open 3 pointer (open jerry rice downfield)
2nd read: contested 3 pointer (tight single coverage on jerry rice downfield)
3rd read: find open man (dump off to running back for short gain)
4th read: open mid-range (allen robinson beginning to separate from defender over the middle)

while if you're a decent QB you're confident in your ability to hit allen robinson over the middle, there's little home run potential and it's not a super high percentage throw either

Yeah I mean mid range shots are much further down reads. That's why in my eyes they are "bail out shots" and why I get frustrated with Lavine's shot selection sometimes.

But it's hard to quantify the balance. Would you rather andre roberson try an open 3 or CP3 a semi contested mid range shot from his go to spot?

The open 3 is the preferred shot but I'd rather bet on cp3 if I had to choose a shot

well, andre roberson is a 25.5% career 3 pt shooter, so...

Exactly. in this case the open 3 is not the best option even though overall it's the preferred option. But cp3 mid range should still be 4-5th read/ open 3 by andre 5-6th not 1-2

[Chi town]

Murray is a shooting scorer. Similar to Curry. Doesn’t make it happen from the FT line or a bunch from midrange or at the cup.

Murray gives me hope for Coby. Coby has a long way to go. He’s shown flashes of heating up before.

[MrFortune3]

Its crazy how fandom is concerning Pascal. Toronto has been killing him since the playoffs started. They are probably feeling like he is trash etc. Us here would probably trade half our team for someone like Pascal. Funny how fandom works.

Once you become the man, you get all the smoke.

[MrFortune3]

Murray is shooting the ball as if it's NBA 2K on the easiest level.

When Murray is aggressive, he's on another level. That's what frustrates fans about him. He's not consistently, I don't know if the better phrase would be nasty enough or dialed in. When he's on, he's one of the best in the league but the consistency is not where it needs to be.

[Dresden]

this is clearly part of the reason people dislike the heightened focus on the 3 pt shot - it changes the game from the one they grew up with and pine for. creates less variety

For me it's definitely the less variety, the product feels more homogenous and the NBA popularity was always on based on its individuals, both in personality and play style.

Kawhi probably would be better off shooting mostly 3s, and joining everyone else. He's an incredible shooter from all ranges, there's no reason why he wouldn't be a deadly 3 shooter as well.

3s are also the shot that have the most strict rules about how you can defend them, with post having the most lenient. Post play 1 on 1 matches had more of a competitive element to them. Two guys shooting 3s are mainly watching each other with a hand up, or getting mauled by screens.

I agree. 3 pt shots have a certain level of excitement to them, but it also seems less creative. I really miss post play- watching guys like Hakeem or Ewing or Jabbar (in his prime) go to work inside on somebody. Don't miss Shaq one bit though. Yes, there's a lot less variety in today's game, esp. with some teams. Of course it's hard to generalize. Boston plays a really team oriented style of ball, with a lot of passing, and a mix of 3 pt shooting and guys taking it to the rack. It was also a bit boring watching guys try to isolate and go one and one repeatedly too. I can't stand watching Lebron play, it's so repetitive. I'd rather watch James Harden.

[MrSparkle]

Murray is shooting the ball as if it's NBA 2K on the easiest level.

When Murray is aggressive, he's on another level. That's what frustrates fans about him. He's not consistently, I don't know if the better phrase would be nasty enough or dialed in. When he's on, he's one of the best in the league but the consistency is not where it needs to be.

He is really young - just 22. His rookie season was Coby-ish. In fact, virtually identical: https://stathead.com/tiny/y8k9b

I do think the story is this: shooting PGs are streaky. He gets going outside, not inside or creating. So it’s largely a roll of momentum and confidence.

I think you do live and die by that. He’s not gonna turn opponents upside down with assists and defensive plays.

But I’ve said for 11 months now, Coby has a very similar thing going on. When he’s off, the numbers look terrible. When he’s on, it’s an unguardable 30+ pt explosion.

[jc23]

Curry has had such a huge influence on todays game. So many players today have this confidence in their 3 point shot that just wasnt accessible in the past. He broke a mental barrier; similar to the 4 minute mile.

[MrFortune3]

Murray is shooting the ball as if it's NBA 2K on the easiest level.

When Murray is aggressive, he's on another level. That's what frustrates fans about him. He's not consistently, I don't know if the better phrase would be nasty enough or dialed in. When he's on, he's one of the best in the league but the consistency is not where it needs to be.

He is really young - just 22. His rookie season was Coby-ish. In fact, virtually identical: https://stathead.com/tiny/y8k9b

I do think the story is this: shooting PGs are streaky. He gets going outside, not inside or creating. So it’s largely a roll of momentum and confidence.

I think you do live and die by that. He’s not gonna turn opponents upside down with assists and defensive plays.

But I’ve said for 11 months now, Coby has a very similar thing going on. When he’s off, the numbers look terrible. When he’s on, it’s an unguardable 30+ pt explosion.

Agreed. Murray is going to be streaky given his age and that his impact is mostly scoring and forcing the defense to account for him when he's on.
He has so much talent to be lethal though.

[MrFortune3]

Curry has had such a huge influence on todays game. So many players today have this confidence in their 3 point shot that just wasnt accessible in the past. He broke a mental barrier; similar to the 4 minute mile.

I don't even think it was a confidence issue. Curry takes and makes shots that most coaches used to yank players for and tell them to never take in games.
He mastered the art of shooting so well that you have to ask "Why isn't he taking that shot" whereas before it was "That's just a heat check"

[TheStig]

Underrated Candidate for worst GM: Elton Brand

He's completely squandering the process. He had a full war chest of extra picks, young players and young stars. He's literally traded almost every pick, young player (outside of Embid and Simmons) and asset they've had for basically a rental of Butler and Tobias Harris. He didn't pay Jimmy after trading for him and a strong playoff performance. He signed another center to huge money in a old Hortford. He has basically traded a huge amount of assets and payed Tobias Harris an obscene amount of money. He traded away Fultz for nothing who has only become better after. He has two stars that don't work well together and couldn't put around the one thing to help in shooting around them.

[MrFortune3]

Underrated Candidate for worst GM: Elton Brand

He's completely squandering the process. He had a full war chest of extra picks, young players and young stars. He's literally traded almost every pick, young player (outside of Embid and Simmons) and asset they've had for basically a rental of Butler and Tobias Harris. He didn't pay Jimmy after trading for him and a strong playoff performance. He signed another center to huge money in a old Hortford. He has basically traded a huge amount of assets and payed Tobias Harris an obscene amount of money. He traded away Fultz for nothing who has only become better after. He has two stars that don't work well together and couldn't put around the one thing to help in shooting around them.

Philly has to get roster balance. Simmons either has to develop his 3 point shooting and space the floor or they have to move one of he or Embiid because it's not going to work without significant spacing and a 3rd guy who can come in and get his.

[MrSparkle]

I expected PHI to be a dark-horse in a best-case scenario, and of course the shooting was going to be a problem, but I didn't expect them to be as bad. I still refused to believe that a hyper athletic and sizable defense could muster such mediocre results, but I guess I was still wrong. Your team's ceiling is officially mediocre, if the 3P shooting/spacing is below-average.

Of course, when your best and only ball-handler goes down, you can't really evaluate a whole lot. I don't think they'd have beaten BOS, but it sure would've been a different series.

But having a rotation with 8 guys whose bread-and-butter is slashing, defense and mid-range... and zero confident 3P shooters... it's about the dumbest thing possible when you have 2 all-stars who don't make a living scoring outside the paint.

I don't know what they're waiting for. Brand should be relieved of duty. He built a team for 1975.

Well, I guess if PHX doesn't build on this bubble and regresses back to losing, PHI has the Suns' unprotected FRP next year. Zhaire seems like a burn of a 1st pick from that trade. Mikal wouldn't have entirely addressed PHI's 3P woes, though he's improved. Already showing strong signs of becoming the 3D guy they hoped.

[Chi town]

Curry has had such a huge influence on todays game. So many players today have this confidence in their 3 point shot that just wasnt accessible in the past. He broke a mental barrier; similar to the 4 minute mile.

I don't even think it was a confidence issue. Curry takes and makes shots that most coaches used to yank players for and tell them to never take in games.
He mastered the art of shooting so well that you have to ask "Why isn't he taking that shot" whereas before it was "That's just a heat check"

Analytics helps a ton too. It validated the volume of 3s