HarthorneWingo wrote:KnicksGadfly wrote:HarthorneWingo wrote:(Since 2004?
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Anyhow, great post. We don't have the patience around here for things like that.
And then we waste time and money on trying to develop the wrong players (e.g. Mudiay, DSJ)
I don't agree unfortunately. I'm sure management would love it if we had a team of Jokic, Green, Covington, Duncan Robinson, Ariza, etc, but the truth is, finding those guys and players are hard, and then we gotta develop. Teams generally don't get too much of those. If FVV is worth a max or getting paid 20+ mill, it's because there are so few guys in the NBA of his caliber (hopefully...we all know human psychology comes into play) that he's going to get paid that, no matter where he got drafted. It ain't easy to find them. As a 2nd rounder, sometimes just getting a TJ McConnell type is a win. Getting a championship caliber, playoff tested PG? That's gold, man. As the Warriors said, if they knew Draymond was that good, they would have gotten him earlier, especially before drafting Ezeli. On our end, we found Mitch in the 2nd and I want him to get paid; it means we did something right if he did. And if Mitch became a star, I would not say "well, he's a dime a dozen..." and "let's find the next 2nd rounder." Guys like Bertans and Harris? It ain't always that easy. Even the Clippers, a team with a shyt ton of depth, ended up trading a 1st for Morris.
We still gotta develop but finding those guys and developing them is not easy. Getting a 3&D guy is pretty good in the 2nd. Getting even a strong backup is good...a lot of those 2nd rounders bust. Getting a stud requires luck and some innovative skill no one else has picked up on.
And hell, if we sign FVV and then we sign the next version of FVV as a 2nd rounder? That's a damn nice problem to have, and a very good sign for us.
So you want to sign FVV? Just him or with someone else to go with him? Because if you think that FVV is going to come to the Knicks to play with a bunch of kids after winning close to 60 games in Toronto, I think you may be looking through rose-colored glasses, as they say (unless you're willing to seriously overpay for him but that would be crazy for us to do).
If you're going to sign FVV, then you're going to have to also sign a Big Dawg to go with him. Who's that player?
Before I answer your questions, I do want to reiterate the point of my post, which is that we should not assume that FVV talents are lurking everywhere in the 2nd and undrafted pool. Finding 2nd round talent that goes beyond role player and passable starter is exceedingly rare. Moreover, FVV has outplayed his draft status. What he ends up signing for, he will have earned. Similar to Covington. Everyone wants the next Covington and they still haven't found the next one, and Houston still ended up trading a shyt ton for him. If everyone could find the next FVV that easily, he would not be getting paid this summer.
Now let's move onto the your points. I think there's two separate questions there.
1. Will FVV come? That one, I can't answer. Leon Rose will have to deal with that...I assume this is part of the reason he got hired. As for overpaying, I do expect to overpay, yes. But the thing is this, we've overpaid for Randle, Portis, Ellington, Payton to such an awful degree. So, from my POV, we have room on our cap to overpay, once we dump those guys, and we should still be able to conserve space, do salary dumps, etc. The big factor here is COVID and how that affects the cap and what FAs get. The other hope is that he facilitates the development of guys like RJ and Mitch and help them deliver plus value on their cheap contracts, which will also take the sting out of paying him extra.
2. For the Big Dawg, I don't actually see a max contract guy this summer beyond AD, but if we do sign a max cat or trade for the max cat later down the line (which I think is the plan), then I know FVV can play with any of them. What's FVV contract look like? Based on Spotrac's AAV, where do you think he should go?
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/point-guard/ For me, I'm expecting above Brogdon, below Jrue. At some point, I would bow out and I might even reconsider based on our draft, but again, my point is, don't expect FVVs to magically pop out of the 2nd round. He's earned respect as an NBA player.
