Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner?

[Pacercoltboiler]

Is there a way to build around Sabonis? How do you cover not having a shot blocker at the 5. Pritchard has said without a shot blocker, it is like a layup drill for the other team. I agree. Sabonis is my favorite Pacer, would a Rodman like defender next to him make it doable defensively?

[Moooose]

Myles could've been better than Gobert in a lot of ways. In fact, his postseason numbers are better than Gobert. The problem is, he never had the same effort all year long. He played better in the playoffs because he had to.

You look at Gobert and you see a slow big man with limited mobility. A traditional big with limited range and offensive skillset. Just in that description alone he seems like someone who wouldn't survive the modern day NBA. But why is he thriving? Why is he better than Myles in a lot of way? Two things - Consistency and EFFORT.

Myles only play well when he has to. Just look at his postseason play. Look at how he posts up out of urgency. He never showed that grit all season long. Something is wrong with him and I really think it is matters of mental maturity. Every season he seems to prepare himself for something better but nothing ever happens. Until Myles overcome his mentality issues, he'll always be the same player.

[Moooose]

Is there a way to build around Sabonis? How do you cover not having a shot blocker at the 5. Pritchard has said without a shot blocker, it is like a layup drill for the other team. I agree. Sabonis is my favorite Pacer, would a Rodman like defender next to him make it doable defensively?

The idea of playing Myles alongside Domas is for that purpose. The problem is Myles' inconsistencies on defense. Imagine having someone like a Jarrett Allen alongside Domas. Someone who contests shots no matter how many times he ends up in posters.

And for this reason, I really think we need someone better to pair up with Domas up front. I wouldn't mind someone less talented than Myles as long as he covers the defensive end consistently and has the smarts and intangibles on offense.

[8305]

Is there a way to build around Sabonis? How do you cover not having a shot blocker at the 5. Pritchard has said without a shot blocker, it is like a layup drill for the other team. I agree. Sabonis is my favorite Pacer, would a Rodman like defender next to him make it doable defensively?

I think you can build around Sabonis. You need a scheme and players manning the other positions that control dribble penetration. I don't think a shot blocker is essential. An athlete who can guard multiple positions is the 5th piece I's like to see with a Sabonis, Vic, TJ, Brogdan group.

[PerkinsFor3]

I actually liked what I saw of Alize in the few minutes I've seen him play. Any thoughts on his future?

[Wizop]

I actually liked what I saw of Alize in the few minutes I've seen him play. Any thoughts on his future?

I believe he is a restricted free agent. He's done well in Ft Wayne when he's been sent there but Nate had him behind Sampson. I'd give him a one year deal maybe with a team option but I'm not sure you can do options on a one year deal,

[Moooose]

I actually liked what I saw of Alize in the few minutes I've seen him play. Any thoughts on his future?

Not too much playing time for him this season but I think he's deserving to be re-signed. He did well in very limited minutes. Nate can't play him enough as we needed much of the more experienced Sampson. But since Sampson may be gone next season, I hope they give Alize a chance at relevant playing time.

He's got a budding offensive game in addition to his hustling defense and solid rebounding skills. I know this can't be realistic, but the guy has a 14.6 rpg value per 36 minutes. It could only help the Pacers who are ranked 29th in rebounding.

I hope this won't be a Georges Niang situation once again.

[Scoot McGroot]

I actually liked what I saw of Alize in the few minutes I've seen him play. Any thoughts on his future?

I believe he is a restricted free agent. He's done well in Ft Wayne when he's been sent there but Nate had him behind Sampson. I'd give him a one year deal maybe with a team option but I'm not sure you can do options on a one year deal,

A one year deal with a team option is a 2 year deal. Can't have an option on a one year deal, as the option would be "picked up" merely in the signing of the contract. Could have a non-guaranteed contract for one year though.

He is a restricted free agent, and it's hard to say what our plans are. Nate sent Alize up to Ft. Wayne even when we were SUPER short handed in a late regular season (non-bubble) game which didn't bode well, but Nate's gone. He played him quite a bit in the bubble, though, and he produced pretty ok there. I think it'll all depend on how the rest of the roster shakes out. We have 12 guys signed for next year already, so hypothetically, only 3 roster spots available, and maybe about $8-10m available via the MLE before the tax. We could dump TJ Leaf and get an extra $4.3m in breathing room, and an extra roster spot, but if we're to have any turnover (barring other bigger trades that are likely inevitable) and fresh additions, then we're tight on roster spots. I would imagine that Pritchard would have interest in Justin, Jakarr, and Alize all returning, depending on what coach we hire and team needs, and obviously the price. But, I would assume that Alize could be "gettable" with a decent qualifying offer, or even made unrestricted as a courtesy if we're not totally sure on his involvement in our plans.

[Wizop]

A one year deal with a team option is a 2 year deal. Can't have an option on a one year deal, as the option would be "picked up" merely in the signing of the contract. Could have a non-guaranteed contract for one year though.

I meant a team option for a second year. should've used more words. a partially guaranteed deal is also a possibility.

[Grang33r]

I don't think Myles is the problem, but the Pacers are in no shape to be calling anybody untouchable. I'd look at every and any trade idea that comes their way, including for Oladipo.

[Scoot McGroot]

I don't think Myles is the problem, but the Pacers are in no shape to be calling anybody untouchable. I'd look at every and any trade idea that comes their way, including for Oladipo.

I would agree. I would go two steps forward though and say:
1) As soon as the season ends, there’s a lot of extreme feelings, but it’s rarely as bad as it seems, and rarely as good as it might have looked.
2) Remember that this team was built to improve for 2-3 years as Oladipo was out when it was built, and most of the team was overhauled. Yes, If we learned something of a major material, it’s better to adjust early, but don’t let the disappointment that we overachieved By a lot, but not By a record amount cause you to act rashly and overreact an opposite way.

[Topofthekey]

What I really want to see is the next head coach do a few things:

1. Make the Domas-Myles pairing work

Then we can stop reading about all those trades on the TB where Pacers solve their "problem" with Domas and Myles

In theory it is a pairing that should work, since they both complement each other's strength and weaknesses

Ideally the new HC maximizes Domas' playmaking capabilities, turning him into Jokic-lite but with a post game

Also ideally, the new HC maximizes Myles' 3pt shooting capabilities and also teaches him how to exploit mismatches, turning him into a KP-lite on offense but without the injury issues


2. Make better use of Doug

Doug shot 44% 3pts. Duncan Robinson shot 45%

Doug is every bit as good as shooter as Duncan Robinson, except Doug is also a lot more athletic. There really is no reason why Doug isn't averaging like 14-16ppg and a 6moty candidate


3. Develop Goga and Aaron (and maybe Sumner too)

It really aggravates me that Pacers have been terrible in developing their rookies in the past few seasons, while another team like the Heat are plucking players like Duncan Robinson and Kendrick Nunn from the undrafted pool and turning them into borderline stars

Goga and Aaron have the talent. They just need to be developed properly and given a role, instead of being told to "figure it out"


This post got a little ranty towards the end, sorry

But yes, those are the top 3 things I'd like to see the next HC do (aside from the obvious, like implementing better offense)

Side benefit if the HC can do everything mentioned above is it would greatly boost the trade value for every one of the players mentioned, which will be a big help if the team decides to remake the roster

[Scoot McGroot]

What I really want to see is the next head coach do a few things:

1. Make the Domas-Myles pairing work

Then we can stop reading about all those trades on the TB where Pacers solve their "problem" with Domas and Myles

In theory it is a pairing that should work, since they both complement each other's strength and weaknesses

Ideally the new HC maximizes Domas' playmaking capabilities, turning him into Jokic-lite but with a post game

Also ideally, the new HC maximizes Myles' 3pt shooting capabilities and also teaches him how to exploit mismatches, turning him into a KP-lite on offense but without the injury issues


2. Make better use of Doug

Doug shot 44% 3pts. Duncan Robinson shot 45%

Doug is every bit as good as shooter as Duncan Robinson, except Doug is also a lot more athletic. There really is no reason why Doug isn't averaging like 14-16ppg and a 6moty candidate


3. Develop Goga and Aaron (and maybe Sumner too)

It really aggravates me that Pacers have been terrible in developing their rookies in the past few seasons, while another team like the Heat are plucking players like Duncan Robinson and Kendrick Nunn from the undrafted pool and turning them into borderline stars

Goga and Aaron have the talent. They just need to be developed properly and given a role, instead of being told to "figure it out"


This post got a little ranty towards the end, sorry

But yes, those are the top 3 things I'd like to see the next HC do (aside from the obvious, like implementing better offense)

Side benefit if the HC can do everything mentioned above is it would greatly boost the trade value for every one of the players mentioned, which will be a big help if the team decides to remake the roster

Solely on 3.

Miami has played their young guys early in the season, and consistently throughout the season, developing them and the team throughout, even at the cost of a few games during the regular season. As a result, by the time the playoffs come, the training wheels are off and the players are known commodity’s. We have been the opposite. We have fought and clawed for every regular season game, leaning on our starters and veterans the whole way. Now, some of that is understandable super early on, as we weren’t expecting to be so safely into the playoffs, but rather fighting to make the playoffs at all. However, once we solidified our standing, we should’ve been working in new sets and players, and seeing that a Sumner, Goga, or Alize would be ready for the playoffs.

[pacers33granger]

Tbf Sumner got some run early before getting injured again and Aaron was developed at least ok this year. But it has always irked me that we don't get prospects more time when there are clear opportunities to do so.

[Wizop]

Mami has played their young guys early in the season, and consistently throughout the season, developing them and the team throughout, even at the cost of a few games during the regular season.

and they are two up on the one seed suggesting that they are playing much better than their seeding.

I think Pat Riley may have learned from his own mistakes. his teams always won 50 games but didn't do as well in the playoffs as other 50 win teams. were they worn out or just lacked the playoff gear other teams could shift into because they'd been using that gear all year long? sounds familiar doesn't it?

[Topofthekey]

Solely on 3.

Miami has played their young guys early in the season, and consistently throughout the season, developing them and the team throughout, even at the cost of a few games during the regular season. As a result, by the time the playoffs come, the training wheels are off and the players are known commodity’s. We have been the opposite. We have fought and clawed for every regular season game, leaning on our starters and veterans the whole way. Now, some of that is understandable super early on, as we weren’t expecting to be so safely into the playoffs, but rather fighting to make the playoffs at all. However, once we solidified our standing, we should’ve been working in new sets and players, and seeing that a Sumner, Goga, or Alize would be ready for the playoffs.

Not that wins are ever bad, but yes it was a little eye-roll inducing to see Nate claw for every single win in the regular season, when a few loses would have been a fair price to pay if it meant getting the third tier players ready

Maybe it bugged Pritchard as well, maybe that's what they meant when they said they want a programme builder for the next HC

Over relying on the starters and vets while relegating the rest of the team to outside looking in status doesn't sound like a great programme

[Scoot McGroot]

Real interesting read on what a possible Myles-less Pacers team could achieve long term.

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[Topofthekey]

Interesting

As expected, the main argument is that Domas as the sole big at 5 results in a tamer defense compared to one that is anchored by Myles, but in turn it benefits from Domas' positive impact on offense - "the sky is the limit" the article says

One thing stood out to me though; the writer also mentioned that TJ Warren can be "unleashed" playing the 4

So how about trading Domas, and playing Myles and Warren at 5 and 4?

You get the benefit of a defense anchored by Myles, and at the same time benefiting from Warren being "unleashed" on offense playing the 4

Of course, most of all, I just want to see a coach who bring out the best of Domas and Myles playing together

[pacers33granger]

TJ played well as a smallball 4, but it was next to Myles. I'm skeptical that it would work at all on defense with Domas.

I'm still in the camp that says keep Myles. But if we do end up trading him and running with a frontcourt of Domas/TJ and (presumably) another non-defender, then it better be with a D'Antoni run offense. I'm not confident in the other know former HC candidates to make it work honestly.

[Moooose]

I honestly believe that Domas will strive at the 5 with a willing and lengthy defender next to him at 4. Someone who can be switched at times and also play 5 when Domas is not in play. Myles would have been perfect, if not for his inconsistencies. If we think the next head coach can "unleash" Myles and turn him into a man, then we got a solution. But if not, then I think the Pacers can trade him for someone more fitting for the role.

I wouldn't mind someone less talented on offense, but is always reliable on defense. Not to mention someone who can rebound. I can't help but think of the Smits - Dale Davis combo back in the days.

I agree Warren can play at the 4 too, depending on the matchup's and small ball option.