Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season

[Prokorov]

Buddy Hield and Spencer Dinwiddie are among the trade candidates that the Hawks might pursue to pair with Trae Young, Chris Kirschner of The Athletic opines. Kirschner and Peachtree Hoops’ Andrew Kelly take an in-depth look at what type of trades Atlanta might explore this offseason using the team’s cap room.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/08/southeast-notes-bamba-okeke-fultz-hield-howard.html

Hawks have some interesting young pieces or could be part of a larger 3 team deal. I don't have an Athletic subscription, so not sure what type of deals were discussed.

Nets in:
Teague, Bembry, Dedmond

Hawks in:
Dinwiddie

would love bembry. he is a dog

[TheNetsFan]

DJ outplayed Fro this year. He may outplay him next year. He's been pretty durable for his whole career, but he's still a 32 year old big. It should surprise no one if he starts breaking down in a year or two. He could be a 12-15mpg player before the end of his contract. For that reason, I would hold on tight to Allen. He's cheap depth this year. At worst, you're paying him and Jordan big money at the same time for only two years.

but the question isnt really should we dump allen to ride with Jordan... its do you pass on an upgrade to levert/dinwiddie because you want to keep allen.

Choose the name... Lavine, Porter, Beal, Jrue whomever.

I'm not letting allen stand in the way of adding a guy like that. I think you can find an Allen or 80% of him alot easier than an impact wing and DJ gives you great insurance for a couple years

Scratch the two Bulls off the list. I'm not sure what your obsession with them is.

Beal is a young star. You back the truck up for him. For Jrue, it depends on what the rest of the package looks like, but if you can add picks to retain Allen, you do it.

[DarkXaero]

I think it's safe to say that basically all of us agree that the team needs more defense. But finding good fits for this roster will be a challenge, as two way players are perhaps rightfully valued highly in the league right now. I'm gonna suggest some names that I think could help:

Guards/wings:

Jrue Holiday
Derrick White
Marcus Smart
Kris Dunn
Will Barton
Gary Harris
Danny Green
Wesley Matthews
Dillon Brooks
Mikal Bridges
OG Anuoby
Justin Holiday
Trevor Ariza
Wes Iwundu

PFs:

Larry Nance Jr.
Paul Millsap
Marvin Williams
PJ Washington
Dorian Finney-Smith
Aaron Gordon
Maxi Kleber
JaMychal Green
Thad Young
Royce O'Neale


A lot of these names aren't that exciting, and majority of the best options are hard to get. Some options like Marcus Smart, and OG Anuoby are almost impossible to get. I still maintain that Jrue Holiday is easily the best two way option for us, that we could realistically get. Derrick White could be a really good alternative as well, but I think Spurs would be reluctant to trade him. Kris Dunn is intriguing as he's an All NBA Defense caliber defender, who is likely to have his restricted free agent rights renounced by the Bulls. But he's a lost cause on the other end of the floor, so he would need to be surrounded by excellent offensive options.

Among PFs, Millsap and Marvin Williams could still be really good FA options with the tax payer MLE. Through a trade, I think Larry Nance Jr. can be a really good trade target. He's a good, mobile, smart defender, who has added very solid 3pt shooting ability recently, and he's a high energy, athletic player as well. He can also play small ball 5. With the Cavs' rebuild situation, I can see them selling LNJ for assets. Dorian Finney-Smith would be a good option as well but I'm not sure if Dallas give him up. Likewise with Kleber. PJ Washington was a 2019 lotto pick for Charlotte so he would be near impossible to get, but I threw his name in there because of fit. I'm not a Thad Young fan at all at this point, but he's probably the easiest one to get here through a trade.

Ideally, I think if we pair someone like Jrue or White with one of those PF options (maybe not Thad), I think we'd be making huge improvements to our defense, and balancing our starting lineup.

[Prokorov]

DJ outplayed Fro this year. He may outplay him next year. He's been pretty durable for his whole career, but he's still a 32 year old big. It should surprise no one if he starts breaking down in a year or two. He could be a 12-15mpg player before the end of his contract. For that reason, I would hold on tight to Allen. He's cheap depth this year. At worst, you're paying him and Jordan big money at the same time for only two years.

but the question isnt really should we dump allen to ride with Jordan... its do you pass on an upgrade to levert/dinwiddie because you want to keep allen.

Choose the name... Lavine, Porter, Beal, Jrue whomever.

I'm not letting allen stand in the way of adding a guy like that. I think you can find an Allen or 80% of him alot easier than an impact wing and DJ gives you great insurance for a couple years

Scratch the two Bulls off the list. I'm not sure what your obsession with them is.

Beal is a young star. You back the truck up for him. For Jrue, it depends on what the rest of the package looks like, but if you can add picks to retain Allen, you do it.

im not an otto porter guy but marks love him and he is an initely better fit/need.

Lavine i like. dude is outstanding. he can score from anywhere on the court, finish, is relatively clutch. good on and off ball. still youngish and improving. tools to be a good defender. i think you put him on a good team and he plays consistently harder and becomes a beast.

I mean 25/5/4 on 38% from three is better then what levert posted in a small sample in the bubble and this is year 2 of him showing that production. we also lack elite athleticism

[Prokorov]

I think it's safe to say that basically all of us agree that the team needs more defense. But finding good fits for this roster will be a challenge, as two way players are perhaps rightfully valued highly in the league right now. I'm gonna suggest some names that I think could help:

Guards/wings:

Jrue Holiday
Derrick White
Marcus Smart
Kris Dunn
Will Barton
Royce O'Neale
Gary Harris
Danny Green
Wesley Matthews
Dillon Brooks
Mikal Bridges
OG Anuoby
Wes Iwundu

PFs:

Larry Nance Jr.
Paul Millsap
Marvin Williams
PJ Washington
Dorian Finney-Smith
Aaron Gordon
Maxi Kleber
JaMychal Green
Thad Young


A lot of these names aren't that exciting, and majority of the best options are hard to get. Some options like Marcus Smart, and OG Anuoby are almost impossible to get. I still maintain that Jrue Holiday is easily the best two way option for us, that we could realistically get. Derrick White could be a really good alternative as well, but I think Spurs would be reluctant to trade him. Kris Dunn is intriguing as he's an All NBA Defense caliber defender, who is likely to have his restricted free agent rights renounced by the Bulls. But he's a lost cause on the other end of the floor, so he would need to be surrounded by excellent offensive options.

Among PFs, Millsap and Marvin Williams could still be really good FA options with the tax payer MLE. Through a trade, I think Larry Nance Jr. can be a really good trade target. He's a good, mobile, smart defender, who has added very solid 3pt shooting ability recently, and he's a high energy, athletic player as well. He can also play small ball 5. With the Cavs' rebuild situation, I can see them selling LNJ for assets. Dorian Finney-Smith would be a good option as well but I'm not sure if Dallas give him up. Likewise with Kleber. PJ Washington was a 2019 lotto pick for Charlotte so he would be near impossible to get, but I threw his name in there because of fit. I'm not a Thad Young fan at all at this point, but he's probably the easiest one to get here through a trade.

Ideally, I think if we pair someone like Jrue or White with one of those PF options (maybe not Thad), I think we'd be making huge improvements to our defense, and balancing our starting lineup.

I co-sign all of this.

I dont see the hangup with wanting to bring in a 20/7 all-nba defender. i mean he posted 19/7 this year as a second/third option as well. he is the kind of guy EVERY team wants. unselfish 2 way player who can defend all over the floor and hustles. people want a marcus smart type. Jrue is marcus smart with all-star offense

[DarkXaero]

but the question isnt really should we dump allen to ride with Jordan... its do you pass on an upgrade to levert/dinwiddie because you want to keep allen.

Choose the name... Lavine, Porter, Beal, Jrue whomever.

I'm not letting allen stand in the way of adding a guy like that. I think you can find an Allen or 80% of him alot easier than an impact wing and DJ gives you great insurance for a couple years

Scratch the two Bulls off the list. I'm not sure what your obsession with them is.

Beal is a young star. You back the truck up for him. For Jrue, it depends on what the rest of the package looks like, but if you can add picks to retain Allen, you do it.

im not an otto porter guy but marks love him and he is an initely better fit/need.

Lavine i like. dude is outstanding. he can score from anywhere on the court, finish, is relatively clutch. good on and off ball. still youngish and improving. tools to be a good defender. i think you put him on a good team and he plays consistently harder and becomes a beast.

I mean 25/5/4 on 38% from three is better then what levert posted in a small sample in the bubble and this is year 2 of him showing that production. we also lack elite athleticism

Yeah, I think Lavine is one of those players who can blossom into a legit star in the right situation. Dude has an insane work ethic, and determination to win. In a more stable, winning situation with better coaching, he can be molded into a nice positive impact star.

I've said it before that I want no part of Otto Porter Jr. The player himself is a decent fit here, but his injury history/projection is a massive red flag.

[Paradise]

We actually need some guys who contribute to WINNING basketball. Meaning, we should be targeting guys who are currently on contenders or consistently good defensive teams. Marvin Williams, Jae Crowder, Justin Holiday, llyasova, etc.

Tyler Johnson looked really good because it wasn’t hard for him to get back to his Miami level of play due to the similarity in culture.

We need guys who can come in and add to what we already have built. Some of these guys being mentioned are on losing teams and don’t offer much value to winning and adding any elements of that right now is going to really hurt our team going forward.

I want guys who are already familiar with 50 and 60 win seasons.

[TheNetsFan]

Buddy Hield and Spencer Dinwiddie are among the trade candidates that the Hawks might pursue to pair with Trae Young, Chris Kirschner of The Athletic opines. Kirschner and Peachtree Hoops’ Andrew Kelly take an in-depth look at what type of trades Atlanta might explore this offseason using the team’s cap room.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/08/southeast-notes-bamba-okeke-fultz-hield-howard.html

Hawks have some interesting young pieces or could be part of a larger 3 team deal. I don't have an Athletic subscription, so not sure what type of deals were discussed.

Nets in:
Teague, Bembry, Dedmond

Hawks in:
Dinwiddie

would love bembry. he is a dog

Teague & Bembry are FAs. I wouldn't want to be hard capped by a S&T. Dedmond is a pricey addition at C that would only make sense if Allen is moved in a different deal.

Would Marks have any interest in Reddish or Huerter? I doubt Collins would be offered unless Atlanta doesn't plan on paying him. Would Atlanta deal #6 for Dinwiddie or #6 for Dinwiddie & #19? That large trade exception and pick could be extremely valuable asset in another trade or a 3 team trade for a guy like Beal.

[MrDollarBills]

I'm starting jordan until he is 50 if he is the better player. right now, he seems like the better player although it is very very close and allen in an offseason may surpass him.

in either event, if you can move allen for a better player at G/W while still having someone as good/better then allen at C you do that 100 times out of 100.

If Allen looks even remotely like he did during the bubble games or even improved from there, there is no way you can sell me on a 33 year old DeAndre Jordan on the decline being better.

Now, if we have to move Allen because of a can't miss deal, that's one thing. But if not, I'm not keen on hitching our wagon to a center past his prime. People on here were calling DJ lazy af this season and it seems like all of a sudden now he's a keeper because of locker room politics and who his buddies are.

The bubble is 8 games. we had 60 games to see allen vs DJ and DJ was outplaying him for the majority of it. Even if Allen is better or improves to be better you are not talking about a huge gap between the two.

Also, the bubble should not really be gauged as any kind of realistic measure. Those games were super high scoring. They were after a huge layoff. 75% of the games had no playoff implication as almost all the seeding was locked in prior to the restart. There was no travel. There were no fans. There was no pressure. Many top players didnt join, including beal which put us in a no pressure situation as wiz had no shot to close that gap with 3rd string guys.

I put alot more stock in games 1-60 then i do in the 12 bubble games. That isnt to say allen didnt look good, he did. But thats kind of a foot note. I dont see a scenario were if Jordan was in the bubble and allen wasnt that jordan doesnt post like 13/12/3 or something like that. Maybe even a few more points given how many more possessions bubble games had and how few scoring options we had.

What metrics are you using to gauge how much better Jordan was over Allen during the course of the regular season? This notion that he was blowing Jarrett out of the water this season is revisionist...both of them had their ups and downs.

The sample size is irrelevant. If Allen is bringing that kind of focus and consistency next season, 33 year old DeAndre Jordan, a player who didn't even bring a consistent effort in half of those 60 games, is not better than him at this point.

This thread will look really bad in about a season and a half when father time really starts kicking in.

[MrDollarBills]

We actually need some guys who contribute to WINNING basketball. Meaning, we should be targeting guys who are currently on contenders or consistently good defensive teams. Marvin Williams, Jae Crowder, Justin Holiday, llyasova, etc.

Tyler Johnson looked really good because it wasn’t hard for him to get back to his Miami level of play due to the similarity in culture.

We need guys who can come in and add to what we already have built. Some of these guys being mentioned are on losing teams and don’t offer much value to winning and adding any elements of that right now is going to really hurt our team going forward.

I want guys who are already familiar with 50 and 60 win seasons.

[Prokorov]

We actually need some guys who contribute to WINNING basketball. Meaning, we should be targeting guys who are currently on contenders or consistently good defensive teams. Marvin Williams, Jae Crowder, Justin Holiday, llyasova, etc.

Tyler Johnson looked really good because it wasn’t hard for him to get back to his Miami level of play due to the similarity in culture.

We need guys who can come in and add to what we already have built. Some of these guys being mentioned are on losing teams and don’t offer much value to winning and adding any elements of that right now is going to really hurt our team going forward.

I want guys who are already familiar with 50 and 60 win seasons.

guys go from losing situations to winners all the time and it works. its more about the player than the team. I mean AD was on the same pelicans teams as Holiday was and the lakers are a #1 seed. Covington was on the wolves/76ers tank commanders before the rockets. Bogs was on 15 win nets teams before the pacers/jazz. Crowder himself was on trash teams before boston and miami.

[Prokorov]

Hawks have some interesting young pieces or could be part of a larger 3 team deal. I don't have an Athletic subscription, so not sure what type of deals were discussed.

Nets in:
Teague, Bembry, Dedmond

Hawks in:
Dinwiddie

would love bembry. he is a dog

Teague & Bembry are FAs. I wouldn't want to be hard capped by a S&T. Dedmond is a pricey addition at C that would only make sense if Allen is moved in a different deal.

Would Marks have any interest in Reddish or Huerter? I doubt Collins would be offered unless Atlanta doesn't plan on paying him. Would Atlanta deal #6 for Dinwiddie or #6 for Dinwiddie & #19? That large trade exception and pick could be extremely valuable asset in another trade or a 3 team trade for a guy like Beal.

didnt realize that. id mak a putch for both teague (vet min) and Bembry in FA. i think both fit well.

i think reddish/Huerter/#6 is 3-way trade stuff

[ProspectPark]

Jrue and Beal will never play for the Nets. No championship team spends more than half their cap on guards. It’s a wing player’s league.

Lol at Jrue guarding AD or Kawhi. Just because you look like you’re putting in a lot of effort, doesn’t mean you’re actually getting stops. He can’t guard the elite wings, Can’t shoot, Is already over 30 and is about to demand a max contract when he hits unrestricted free agency next year.

You don’t spend $30 million on role players. Ask the 76ers.

Hard pass.

[Prokorov]

What metrics are you using to gauge how much better Jordan was over Allen during the course of the regular season? This notion that he was blowing Jarrett out of the water this season is revisionist...both of them had their ups and downs.

Hold on MDB, i never said he blew him out of the water. I said that he outplayed him to earn that spot. I dont dismiss that Jordan/Dinwiddie were vocal and maybe KD/Kyrie prefered he start. but the 2 months prior to the bubble Jordan outplayed him to earn that spot. it wasnt just gifted to him.

I'm not saying Jordan is better. I'm not saying Allen wont improve between now and next season to be better. I'm saying right now Jordan is as good or better and there should be no outrage if Jordan started over him next year, barring a massive improvement. I think you give the 2 a camp to battle it out.

The sample size is irrelevant. If Allen is bringing that kind of focus and consistency next season, 33 year old DeAndre Jordan, a player who didn't even bring a consistent effort in half of those 60 games, is not better than him at this point.

The sample size is mostly irrelevant. both due to be a really small sample (12 games) and a really odd scenario (mostly irrelevant bubble games with odd rosters after a huge layoff). What nakes those 12 bubble games a better sample than the prior 60 regular season games?

This thread will look really bad in about a season and a half when father time really starts kicking in.

It would be hard for me to look back and say it was a bad idea id we have upgraded levert or dinwiddie and jordan was center. Allen and centers in general are not all that important in todays game. You can get guys like Allen or 80% of him without giving up the farm

[Prokorov]

Jrue and Beal will never play for the Nets. No championship team spends more than half their cap on guards. It’s a wing player’s league.

Lol at Jrue guarding AD or Kawhi. Just because you look like you’re putting in a lot of effort, doesn’t mean you’re actually getting stops. He can’t guard the elite wings, Can’t shoot, Is already over 30 and is about to demand a max contract when he hits unrestricted free agency next year.

You don’t spend $30 million on role players. Ask the 76ers.

Hard pass.

He has shown for half a decade he can guard the leagues best wings.

"cant shoot" is flat out false. Career 45/35/80 player.

[ProspectPark]

Holiday at $26 million is not worth it. Yes he’s good at guarding players his size, but he’s too small to guard the Tatum, Siakam, Giannis, Kawhi, Luka, AD types that we will have to play to win the championship. For $26 million I need a knockdown shooter who is big enough to guard 1-4.

Holiday regularly locks down largers players. in fact he has locked down a few of the guys you mentioned on this list already. you dont make the all-nba team because you can defend 1 position or size.

id MUCH rather have a 20/7 all-nba Defender at 26 million then a 19/4 player with subpar defense at 18 million.

Holiday = Role Player.

Al Horford...Tobias Harris...Jrue Holiday...Role Players.

You don’t spend $30 million on a role player, especially a guard role player.

You don’t trade young asset on cheap contract, for a 30 year old role player.

[Prokorov]

Holiday = Role Player.

20/7 all-nba defender = role player. if he is a role player than what do you consider levert, temple, and prince... towel boys?

You don’t spend $30 million on a role player, especially a guard role player.

You don’t trade young asset on cheap contract, for a 30 year old role player.

what young asset?

[MrDollarBills]

What metrics are you using to gauge how much better Jordan was over Allen during the course of the regular season? This notion that he was blowing Jarrett out of the water this season is revisionist...both of them had their ups and downs.

Hold on MDB, i never said he blew him out of the water. I said that he outplayed him to earn that spot. I dont dismiss that Jordan/Dinwiddie were vocal and maybe KD/Kyrie prefered he start. but the 2 months prior to the bubble Jordan outplayed him to earn that spot. it wasnt just gifted to him.

I'm not saying Jordan is better. I'm not saying Allen wont improve between now and next season to be better. I'm saying right now Jordan is as good or better and there should be no outrage if Jordan started over him next year, barring a massive improvement. I think you give the 2 a camp to battle it out.

The sample size is irrelevant. If Allen is bringing that kind of focus and consistency next season, 33 year old DeAndre Jordan, a player who didn't even bring a consistent effort in half of those 60 games, is not better than him at this point.

The sample size is mostly irrelevant. both due to be a really small sample (12 games) and a really odd scenario (mostly irrelevant bubble games with odd rosters after a huge layoff). What nakes those 12 bubble games a better sample than the prior 60 regular season games?

This thread will look really bad in about a season and a half when father time really starts kicking in.

It would be hard for me to look back and say it was a bad idea id we have upgraded levert or dinwiddie and jordan was center. Allen and centers in general are not all that important in todays game. You can get guys like Allen or 80% of him without giving up the farm

I agree, give them a camp to battle it out.

I'll be very honest, the fact that Jordan was complaining kind of soured me on him. But Allen was playing better than Jordan pre ASB. Post ASB, yes, DeAndre was better. But it wasn't for an entire 60 games that DJ was wrongfully being brought off of the bench, he was not outplaying Allen for a bulk of the season. If anything, Jordan's small sample size in February and March is the one that should be scrutinized more, especially in light of the fact that he was apart of a mutiny that got the coach fired and gets preferential treatment because of who his pals are on this team.

I dunno. Seems to me that Allen also looked better not having to worry about some cranky vet in his 30s crying about his role.

[MrDollarBills]

We need a wing defender that can match up at 2, 3, and even 4 in some situations. We have to deal with Ben, Siakam, Giannis, Butler, and Tatum.

We need someone 6'8, good wingspan and some defensive chops on this roster. Who fits that bill in free agency or via trade? Jrue Holiday or Bradley Beal isn't answering that question.

[TheNetsFan]

We need a wing defender that can match up at 2, 3, and even 4 in some situations. We have to deal with Ben, Siakam, Giannis, Butler, and Tatum.

We need someone 6'8, good wingspan and some defensive chops on this roster. Who fits that bill in free agency or via trade? Jrue Holiday or Bradley Beal isn't answering that question.

We need Nets era KMart, but versatile defenders like that are not common. I'm good with Jrue guarding Tatum and Butler. If Ben is wasting his talent on the perimeter, I'm good there too. You have to get creative with Giannis.