Hayward opt in and trade up on draft night. (Trade ideas)

[Buzzard]

I can respect that, my trade idea was Hayward and the 26th for Huerter. Who in my opinion and I am not a hawks fan so I will defer to them i f my thought process was faulty. I see Huerter, Reddish and hunter fighting for the same min. to me this is not ideal in having 3 wing players all needing development at the same time and also shooting for the playoffs. Hayward is something in thier back pocket if they are unable to land a star in 2021, they can then turn back to Hayward for an extension. For that and the 26 I suggested Huerter. While a positive return something that I certainly thought was reasonable in light of Atl playoffs hopes.

I don’t see it too much of an issue with Huerter being a 1/2/3, Reddish being a 2/3, and Hunter being a 3/4. I think there’s even room for a long term 1/2 to be added at 6 and still develop well. Collins ability to play some 4/5 allows you to still bring in another wing-ish type player and it not be an issue.

yeah, I see them going haliburton with the 6th to try to get the ball out of tre hands to free him up to move more. But again that is one more guy you are trying to develop at the same time while trying to win games. Now if they were the cavs or the Pistions, two years away from competing, hell just roll the kids out there. But hayward brings much more to the table if a goal is to make the playoffs for the first time in a few years. I am not putting the hawks or thier fanbase down, but you can buy tickets game day most days. I think the fans need a nudge.

I think Haliburton, Hayes, or Deni are options, as well as any big that might drop. I am totally against a one year overpay for someone like Hayward. Can't stress that enough. The Celtics did not make a big free agent move until they were established making the playoffs. I see no reason the Hawks should have a knee jerk reaction either. They got Capela, see if that is enough to get there. Then decide on who to chase.

[Scoot McGroot]

I can respect that, my trade idea was Hayward and the 26th for Huerter. Who in my opinion and I am not a hawks fan so I will defer to them i f my thought process was faulty. I see Huerter, Reddish and hunter fighting for the same min. to me this is not ideal in having 3 wing players all needing development at the same time and also shooting for the playoffs. Hayward is something in thier back pocket if they are unable to land a star in 2021, they can then turn back to Hayward for an extension. For that and the 26 I suggested Huerter. While a positive return something that I certainly thought was reasonable in light of Atl playoffs hopes.

I don’t see it too much of an issue with Huerter being a 1/2/3, Reddish being a 2/3, and Hunter being a 3/4. I think there’s even room for a long term 1/2 to be added at 6 and still develop well. Collins ability to play some 4/5 allows you to still bring in another wing-ish type player and it not be an issue.

yeah, I see them going haliburton with the 6th to try to get the ball out of tre hands to free him up to move more. But again that is one more guy you are trying to develop at the same time while trying to win games. Now if they were the cavs or the Pistions, two years away from competing, hell just roll the kids out there. But hayward brings much more to the table if a goal is to make the playoffs for the first time in a few years. I am not putting the hawks or thier fanbase down, but you can buy tickets game day most days. I think the fans need a nudge.

Oh, I don't know. I don't think they are really needing to super accelerate the rebuild. Maybe one more year away from starting to make a major move to really accelerate, but I think one more across the board guy may make sense. See if it's Huerter they need to move, or maybe this pick replaces Reddish? Or replaces Hunter? It's all about the right base, and if you try and push it too far, too fast, you run the risk of having to kind of blow it up again and start over again.

I also just don't know that Hayward is the guy to really motivate them to flip the switch. He's only signed one year, he's quite a bit older than the crew, and he's more of a do all kind of guy that isn't a primary of anything. Granted, they have Trae, but I just feel like they might be more motivated for a more long-term kind of piece.

[drosereturn]

So Hayward opts in before draft night if the likely consequence of him opting in that early is being traded to the Pistons or the Knicks?

hayward, 14, 26, and 30 for 8 is not unreasonable at all. a lot less if we take Randle back too.

I would do hayward, Langford,14, 26, 30 for 4 and Porter.
If Hayward does sign and trade, would do it without langford bc i want the long term commitment.

[patman66]

I think ATL is two years away from being two years away. Huerter is a young guy with some value as a shooter and they should think about his fit, but right now they should be accumulating talent and not rushing things.

I certainly do not, I think they are on the cusp of the playoffs. Once teague was acquired I thought they played ok. Add the 6th pick and some exp I think they are close to returnig to the playoffs which is the first step. You follow OKC, let me know how you feel when OKC goes three years without making the playoffs.

It’s never happened but I’d be happy to let you know since you’re so interested in a perennial playoff team, but if the objective is to not just be the 8 seed they absolutely have a lot more work to do and any competent GM sees that

And I am not interested in OKC, just how you would feel after not being in the playoffs for 3 years. So what life experience do you have as a fan following a team that has not gone to the playoffs for 3 years and how they should feel about it. No the object is not just to be the 8th seed, but the 8th seed next year and get the fans re-energized as they were 4 years ago with the Horford and Milsap team. You have to start somewhere. if you don't think use the cap money on Haywood at the cost of trading Huerter for a low 1st, fine. I understand. But I think it is a valid move for an organization. What are they going to use the cap money for and still be a player next year and have to pay Collins at the same time. Teams are going to want them to take salary in for cap, and the salary may be more than one year, they won't be the skill level of haywood either and ATL fans have expressed their disdain for more low draft choices.

I want haywood to stay, players of his skill are not easy to find. Wyc has said and has done so in the past that he will pay the tax for a good team. I don't know of one celtic fan that wants to trade haywood.

[MoneyTalks41890]

I certainly do not, I think they are on the cusp of the playoffs. Once teague was acquired I thought they played ok. Add the 6th pick and some exp I think they are close to returnig to the playoffs which is the first step. You follow OKC, let me know how you feel when OKC goes three years without making the playoffs.

It’s never happened but I’d be happy to let you know since you’re so interested in a perennial playoff team, but if the objective is to not just be the 8 seed they absolutely have a lot more work to do and any competent GM sees that

And I am not interested in OKC, just how you would feel after not being in the playoffs for 3 years. So what life experience do you have as a fan following a team that has not gone to the playoffs for 3 years and how they should feel about it. No the object is not just to be the 8th seed, but the 8th seed next year and get the fans re-energized as they were 4 years ago with the Horford and Milsap team. You have to start somewhere. if you don't think use the cap money on Haywood at the cost of trading Huerter for a low 1st, fine. I understand. But I think it is a valid move for an organization. What are they going to use the cap money for and still be a player next year and have to pay Collins at the same time. Teams are going to want them to take salary in for cap, and the salary may be more than one year, they won't be the skill level of haywood either and ATL fans have expressed their disdain for more low draft choices.

I want haywood to stay, players of his skill are not easy to find. Wyc has said and has done so in the past that he will pay the tax for a good team. I don't know of one celtic fan that wants to trade haywood.

As far as I know Haywood retired some years ago and you’re talking about Hayward. So correctly identifying the player has some impact

[patman66]

I don’t see it too much of an issue with Huerter being a 1/2/3, Reddish being a 2/3, and Hunter being a 3/4. I think there’s even room for a long term 1/2 to be added at 6 and still develop well. Collins ability to play some 4/5 allows you to still bring in another wing-ish type player and it not be an issue.

yeah, I see them going haliburton with the 6th to try to get the ball out of tre hands to free him up to move more. But again that is one more guy you are trying to develop at the same time while trying to win games. Now if they were the cavs or the Pistions, two years away from competing, hell just roll the kids out there. But hayward brings much more to the table if a goal is to make the playoffs for the first time in a few years. I am not putting the hawks or thier fanbase down, but you can buy tickets game day most days. I think the fans need a nudge.

Oh, I don't know. I don't think they are really needing to super accelerate the rebuild. Maybe one more year away from starting to make a major move to really accelerate, but I think one more across the board guy may make sense. See if it's Huerter they need to move, or maybe this pick replaces Reddish? Or replaces Hunter? It's all about the right base, and if you try and push it too far, too fast, you run the risk of having to kind of blow it up again and start over again.

I also just don't know that Hayward is the guy to really motivate them to flip the switch. He's only signed one year, he's quite a bit older than the crew, and he's more of a do all kind of guy that isn't a primary of anything. Granted, they have Trae, but I just feel like they might be more motivated for a more long-term kind of piece.

What flipping the switch, It is huerter, he is a nice player but nobody is thinking he is going to be haywood someday. they may hope that as you do with all kids, but this move does not set them back at all. What if like Buzzard says they draft Demi or Vassall another wing, now you got 4 of them that can't play the NBA game yet. What are yo going to do, trade huerter for a non-lottery pick next year? Becasue you don't want to take on salary and since he is the one they move, that means his value is even lessened. It seems like people are trying to find a reason not to like the trade - with a bunch of but this could, or that could.

[patman66]

It’s never happened but I’d be happy to let you know since you’re so interested in a perennial playoff team, but if the objective is to not just be the 8 seed they absolutely have a lot more work to do and any competent GM sees that

And I am not interested in OKC, just how you would feel after not being in the playoffs for 3 years. So what life experience do you have as a fan following a team that has not gone to the playoffs for 3 years and how they should feel about it. No the object is not just to be the 8th seed, but the 8th seed next year and get the fans re-energized as they were 4 years ago with the Horford and Milsap team. You have to start somewhere. if you don't think use the cap money on Haywood at the cost of trading Huerter for a low 1st, fine. I understand. But I think it is a valid move for an organization. What are they going to use the cap money for and still be a player next year and have to pay Collins at the same time. Teams are going to want them to take salary in for cap, and the salary may be more than one year, they won't be the skill level of haywood either and ATL fans have expressed their disdain for more low draft choices.

I want haywood to stay, players of his skill are not easy to find. Wyc has said and has done so in the past that he will pay the tax for a good team. I don't know of one celtic fan that wants to trade haywood.

As far as I know Haywood retired some years ago and you’re talking about Hayward. So correctly identifying the player has some impact

only to people who who can't follow along unless you speak slowly, and repeat yourself.

[patman66]

So Hayward opts in before draft night if the likely consequence of him opting in that early is being traded to the Pistons or the Knicks?

hayward, 14, 26, and 30 for 8 is not unreasonable at all. a lot less if we take Randle back too.

I would do hayward, Langford,14, 26, 30 for 4 and Porter.
If Hayward does sign and trade, would do it without langford bc i want the long term commitment.

I bet you would. How does that makes sense for the Celts.

[MoneyTalks41890]

And I am not interested in OKC, just how you would feel after not being in the playoffs for 3 years. So what life experience do you have as a fan following a team that has not gone to the playoffs for 3 years and how they should feel about it. No the object is not just to be the 8th seed, but the 8th seed next year and get the fans re-energized as they were 4 years ago with the Horford and Milsap team. You have to start somewhere. if you don't think use the cap money on Haywood at the cost of trading Huerter for a low 1st, fine. I understand. But I think it is a valid move for an organization. What are they going to use the cap money for and still be a player next year and have to pay Collins at the same time. Teams are going to want them to take salary in for cap, and the salary may be more than one year, they won't be the skill level of haywood either and ATL fans have expressed their disdain for more low draft choices.

I want haywood to stay, players of his skill are not easy to find. Wyc has said and has done so in the past that he will pay the tax for a good team. I don't know of one celtic fan that wants to trade haywood.

As far as I know Haywood retired some years ago and you’re talking about Hayward. So correctly identifying the player has some impact

only to people who who can't follow along unless you speak slowly, and repeat yourself.

You understand Haywood isn’t Hayward right? Just want to make sure I’m taking to a sentient person

[hugepatsfan]

Do not see Hayward as a trade chip to move up in the draft for except maybe Golden State. And even then, I think #2 is probably too high. But Wiggins is such a terrible contract and Hayward is such a perfect fit and Golden State is such a title contending team when healthy that I think there could be a match. Taking back Wiggins is tough for Boston though so it might take an intermediary team with cap space (Detroit, ATL) to take on Wiggins into cap room to move up to #2, and then Boston uses Hayward to move up to that new spot from #14. And that depends on how much those cap teams want #2 and how much Boston loves the guy they can get mid lottery because we’re win now too.

Beyond that scenario, I think he holds solid value around the league in a REASONABLE deal. There are teams who want to contend but leave flexibility open. Teams like Miami, Memphis or Dallas who would love to keep building momentum but not hurt future cap space for runs at Giannis. A team like Portland who needs a SF desperately. A team like Sacramento who keeps trying to push into the playoffs. Orlando might be tough with the Isaac injury hurting their momentum but they were another one.

Not saying we’re going to get super high picks or stud prospects for Hayward but I think lots of teams would be willing to move some salary weight plus a really well-fitting role player or two for Boston. If we decide we want to get a little more rounded depth over a 4th “star” and/or the financials need to be trimmed a bit, I think we can find that deal. But I think that return would be disappointing to most Celtics fans. And as a win now team there’s also real value in just keeping him even if we view at as a rental because of money.

One thing to note on Hayward’s contract is that he can easily be extended. His next deal will be for less than his salary so any team, Boston or someone else, can just tack on years. You can let him play out the bloated option year and then try and lock him in early for a few more years.

[Buzzard]

yeah, I see them going haliburton with the 6th to try to get the ball out of tre hands to free him up to move more. But again that is one more guy you are trying to develop at the same time while trying to win games. Now if they were the cavs or the Pistions, two years away from competing, hell just roll the kids out there. But hayward brings much more to the table if a goal is to make the playoffs for the first time in a few years. I am not putting the hawks or thier fanbase down, but you can buy tickets game day most days. I think the fans need a nudge.

Oh, I don't know. I don't think they are really needing to super accelerate the rebuild. Maybe one more year away from starting to make a major move to really accelerate, but I think one more across the board guy may make sense. See if it's Huerter they need to move, or maybe this pick replaces Reddish? Or replaces Hunter? It's all about the right base, and if you try and push it too far, too fast, you run the risk of having to kind of blow it up again and start over again.

I also just don't know that Hayward is the guy to really motivate them to flip the switch. He's only signed one year, he's quite a bit older than the crew, and he's more of a do all kind of guy that isn't a primary of anything. Granted, they have Trae, but I just feel like they might be more motivated for a more long-term kind of piece.

What flipping the switch, It is huerter, he is a nice player but nobody is thinking he is going to be haywood someday. they may hope that as you do with all kids, but this move does not set them back at all. What if like Buzzard says they draft Demi or Vassall another wing, now you got 4 of them that can't play the NBA game yet. What are yo going to do, trade huerter for a non-lottery pick next year? Becasue you don't want to take on salary and since he is the one they move, that means his value is even lessened. It seems like people are trying to find a reason not to like the trade - with a bunch of but this could, or that could.

I don't think you understand where most Hawks fans think the team is at. Those of us that follow them daily, like on this board, think they will be a playoff team next year. They have five primary players who are 22 or younger and another one in Capela who is 26. The pick this year is one more swing for the fence opportunity. With the way the Hawks GM/President has drafted, #6 could be a good to great player. Read #6 as icing on the cake.

The nuts and bolts of the rebuild is this: If this young team makes the playoffs next season, that is not their ceiling. That is their floor. So understand this from a Hawks fans perspective, trading away one or two of these young players before they even finish a 2nd year together is a waste of a lot of hard work put in over the last three seasons.

[patman66]

Oh, I don't know. I don't think they are really needing to super accelerate the rebuild. Maybe one more year away from starting to make a major move to really accelerate, but I think one more across the board guy may make sense. See if it's Huerter they need to move, or maybe this pick replaces Reddish? Or replaces Hunter? It's all about the right base, and if you try and push it too far, too fast, you run the risk of having to kind of blow it up again and start over again.

I also just don't know that Hayward is the guy to really motivate them to flip the switch. He's only signed one year, he's quite a bit older than the crew, and he's more of a do all kind of guy that isn't a primary of anything. Granted, they have Trae, but I just feel like they might be more motivated for a more long-term kind of piece.

What flipping the switch, It is huerter, he is a nice player but nobody is thinking he is going to be haywood someday. they may hope that as you do with all kids, but this move does not set them back at all. What if like Buzzard says they draft Demi or Vassall another wing, now you got 4 of them that can't play the NBA game yet. What are yo going to do, trade huerter for a non-lottery pick next year? Becasue you don't want to take on salary and since he is the one they move, that means his value is even lessened. It seems like people are trying to find a reason not to like the trade - with a bunch of but this could, or that could.

I don't think you understand where most Hawks fans think the team is at. Those of us that follow them daily, like on this board, think they will be a playoff team next year. They have five primary players who are 22 or younger and another one in Capela who is 26. The pick this year is one more swing for the fence opportunity. With the way the Hawks GM/President has drafted, #6 could be a good to great player. Read #6 as icing on the cake.

The nuts and bolts of the rebuild is this: If this young team makes the playoffs next season, that is not their ceiling. That is their floor. So understand this from a Hawks fans perspective, trading away one or two of these young players before they even finish a 2nd year together is a waste of a lot of hard work put in over the last three seasons.

I entirely agree with you, maybe I am not expressing myself correctly. I also think Atlanta could make the playoffs next year. The addition of hayward and the 6th pick assures it imo, and positions them to have a max slot while coming off a good season and a most likely a strong showing against the top teams in the east during the playoffs. But if they don't make the playoffs however likely/unlikely you find it the window then close quickly for teams that don't print money like the big market teams. And yes I know Atlanta is larger than Boston and SF.

[enzino]

to Celtics: James Johnson, Evan Turner, #1
to Spurs: #14, #26, #30
to Timberwolves: Gordon Hayward, #11

[patman66]

to Celtics: James Johnson, Evan Turner, #1
to Spurs: #14, #26, #30
to Timberwolves: Gordon Hayward, #11

I would not trade the first for that. Now I could see the wolves being interested in hayward but not with anything that affects the first, something like Culver and Johnson for haywood.

[jayu70]

to Celtics: James Johnson, Evan Turner, #1
to Spurs: #14, #26, #30
to Timberwolves: Gordon Hayward, #11

#1 for a Gordon rental? Minny says No.

[enzino]

to Celtics: James Johnson, Evan Turner, #1
to Spurs: #14, #26, #30
to Timberwolves: Gordon Hayward, #11

#1 for a Gordon rental? Minny says No.

what if hayward agrees to extend?

[Resistance]

to Celtics: James Johnson, Evan Turner, #1
to Spurs: #14, #26, #30
to Timberwolves: Gordon Hayward, #11

#1 for a Gordon rental? Minny says No.

what if hayward agrees to extend?

Minnesota

Ignore James Johnson since you have him going out in the trade.

Is Hayward in synch (agewise) with the rest of the Minnesota roster?

[enzino]

#1 for a Gordon rental? Minny says No.

what if hayward agrees to extend?

Minnesota

Ignore James Johnson since you have him going out in the trade.

Is Hayward in synch (agewise) with the rest of the Minnesota roster?

he is younger (30) then any player of min outgoing package (James Johnson (33), Evan Turner (31)).

[jayu70]

to Celtics: James Johnson, Evan Turner, #1
to Spurs: #14, #26, #30
to Timberwolves: Gordon Hayward, #11

#1 for a Gordon rental? Minny says No.

what if hayward agrees to extend?

Is that an extention to his current $34 million dollar contract. I wouldn't if I was Minny considering his injury history.
Or is it a decline option and resign for a smaller deal with more years? Say 3/$60. So there is still a risk he can bail like Al did from Celtics chasing a bigger payday in Philly.

[gswhoops]

Do not see Hayward as a trade chip to move up in the draft for except maybe Golden State. And even then, I think #2 is probably too high. But Wiggins is such a terrible contract and Hayward is such a perfect fit and Golden State is such a title contending team when healthy that I think there could be a match. Taking back Wiggins is tough for Boston though so it might take an intermediary team with cap space (Detroit, ATL) to take on Wiggins into cap room to move up to #2, and then Boston uses Hayward to move up to that new spot from #14. And that depends on how much those cap teams want #2 and how much Boston loves the guy they can get mid lottery because we’re win now too.

Beyond that scenario, I think he holds solid value around the league in a REASONABLE deal. There are teams who want to contend but leave flexibility open. Teams like Miami, Memphis or Dallas who would love to keep building momentum but not hurt future cap space for runs at Giannis. A team like Portland who needs a SF desperately. A team like Sacramento who keeps trying to push into the playoffs. Orlando might be tough with the Isaac injury hurting their momentum but they were another one.

Not saying we’re going to get super high picks or stud prospects for Hayward but I think lots of teams would be willing to move some salary weight plus a really well-fitting role player or two for Boston. If we decide we want to get a little more rounded depth over a 4th “star” and/or the financials need to be trimmed a bit, I think we can find that deal. But I think that return would be disappointing to most Celtics fans. And as a win now team there’s also real value in just keeping him even if we view at as a rental because of money.

One thing to note on Hayward’s contract is that he can easily be extended. His next deal will be for less than his salary so any team, Boston or someone else, can just tack on years. You can let him play out the bloated option year and then try and lock him in early for a few more years.

In theory I'm fine with the idea of Wiggins/2 for Hayward/14, assuming GH is on board with a reasonable extension. I'm not sure our FO would buy in though, they seem like they believe in the Wiggins renaissance.

The devil is in the details finding someone willing to take on Wiggins for an expiring and a lower pick.