Trade Ideas Thread

[keevsnick1]

Look, Hayward is a very nice player but he's a fifth wheel with a monster contract. Who else can the Celtics trade and get something immediately useful in return?

If Bain Capital is willing to pay luxury tax, I'd offer Hayward and all three picks to Washington for Bradley Beal. Harrison Barnes would be another target of mine.

To get beal the convo starts with Jaylen brown

Ya I wouldn't trade Brown for Beal. Beal is the better player for sure, but on a team that already has Walker and Tatum to carry the scoring load i think there's a little bit of value lost adding another primary scoring option. And that's a pretty massive lost of defensive versatility, not to mention Brown is on a value contract going forward and Beal only has two years left.

[CeltsfaninDC]

Yeah, let's just move on from salivating over Donovan Mitchell for now. It's not happening.

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Put it like this... If Hayward was on another team right now, would you trade them Tatum for Gordon++? Or even Tatum for Brown++?

Thats a VERY different conversation though since Tatum doesn't appear to want to leave while Mitchell does.

[MagicBagley18]

Look, Hayward is a very nice player but he's a fifth wheel with a monster contract. Who else can the Celtics trade and get something immediately useful in return?

If Bain Capital is willing to pay luxury tax, I'd offer Hayward and all three picks to Washington for Bradley Beal. Harrison Barnes would be another target of mine.

To get beal the convo starts with Jaylen brown

Ya I wouldn't trade Brown for Beal. Beal is the better player for sure, but on a team that already has Walker and Tatum to carry the scoring load i think there's a little bit of value lost adding another primary scoring option. And that's a pretty massive lost of defensive versatility, not to mention Brown is on a value contract going forward and Beal only has two years left.

Walker is 30+ with a bad knee and an undersized point guard. Beal is 27 and great friends with Tatum. Kemba every day is closer and closer to being the 3rd option here

[ConstableGeneva]

Yeah, let's just move on from salivating over Donovan Mitchell for now. It's not happening.

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Put it like this... If Hayward was on another team right now, would you trade them Tatum for Gordon++? Or even Tatum for Brown++?

Thats a VERY different conversation though since Tatum doesn't appear to want to leave while Mitchell does.

Mitchell wants to leave Utah?

And even if he does, Jazz have four or five more years of control. He's RFA. What's he gonna do, turn down a max extension to play for the qualified offer? Sit out a season like Davis?

[keevsnick1]

As for the draft pick trade discussion I'd be pretty surprised if we had three more rookies on the team next year. That means one of three things

1) Packaging picks to move up. Maybe its 14+26 to get to about 9, or 26+30 to get to about 20. It really just depends on how the board falls and how the C's evaluate the talent in those ranges.

2) Pick(s)+ salary to get a proven bench guy. The salary would likely be Kanter since he's the only midlevel expendable salary we have.

3) Flipping picks to get a future draft pick, like what the c's did last year. If some team falls in love with someone at 26 maybe they transfer a protected 21 or 22 draft pick.

[keevsnick1]

To get beal the convo starts with Jaylen brown

Ya I wouldn't trade Brown for Beal. Beal is the better player for sure, but on a team that already has Walker and Tatum to carry the scoring load i think there's a little bit of value lost adding another primary scoring option. And that's a pretty massive lost of defensive versatility, not to mention Brown is on a value contract going forward and Beal only has two years left.

Walker is 30+ with a bad knee and an undersized point guard. Beal is 27 and great friends with Tatum. Kemba every day is closer and closer to being the 3rd option here

Sure, but I still wouldn't do that trade. Wings win in the NBA and with Browns youth, better contract, far superior defense I think I'd just rather have him moving forward.

Maybe its just that I've watched enough of Beals defense that I don't think there's anyway it would really work with both him and Kemba in the back court, and Kemba has three more years left so 3rd option or not he's on the team during that time. It just feels like Jaylen is a better fit on a team with Kemba and Tatum then Beal would be.

I think its kind of a moot point, if Washington does decide to trade Beal I think they'd go full on picks/rookie approach and try to just shed salary until wall's contract expires so while Brown might be the bets player they could get back I think they'd rather just get really bad.

[djFan71]

Everyone is coming up with Hayward trade ideas, but if we would offer him an extension in place of his option, something like 3 for 90. Would he take it ? We would have to structure it the right way, but it might keep us out of the repeater tax a year early. Start it at 26 next season, saving us 8 mil off the lux tax, second year at 30, and third year at 34. This way, he still gets his 34 mil salary, just a couple years later, and he gets an additional 2 years for 56 mil.
We would be way over the tax in year 2 and and 3 of the contract, but structured this way may keep us out of the repeater tax a year early. This way would also have Kemba and Hayward s contract ending the same time.

I think the first thru 7th options are to resign him - just more fun to talk trades. Ideally it would be more like 3/80 with descending salary. 3/90 is 2/$56M extension - which is pretty close to market value. Not a ton of reason for Danny to commit to that early imo.

[Curmudgeon]

Look, Hayward is a very nice player but he's a fifth wheel with a monster contract. Who else can the Celtics trade and get something immediately useful in return?

If Bain Capital is willing to pay luxury tax, I'd offer Hayward and all three picks to Washington for Bradley Beal. Harrison Barnes would be another target of mine.

To get beal the convo starts with Jaylen brown

Ya I wouldn't trade Brown for Beal. Beal is the better player for sure, but on a team that already has Walker and Tatum to carry the scoring load i think there's a little bit of value lost adding another primary scoring option. And that's a pretty massive lost of defensive versatility, not to mention Brown is on a value contract going forward and Beal only has two years left.

Beal is owned a ton of money over the next 5 years. Actually he has 3 years left, with the last being a player option. With three picks and Hayward's expiring contract they could start to rebuild, even if Wall never plays another game. Beal would fit in with Brown and Tatum just fine.

As for Brown, I view him as untouchable at this point. He's a max player talent-wise on a team friendly non-max contract that runs through 2024. And he doesn't turn 24 until October.

Sacramento fans thought that Boogie was worth more the Buddy Hield, too.

[Celts17Pride]

If Hayward opts in I wouldn’t be surprised if he is traded in the offseason. Celtics are going to have to do something with the lower salary cap

[djFan71]

To get beal the convo starts with Jaylen brown

Ya I wouldn't trade Brown for Beal. Beal is the better player for sure, but on a team that already has Walker and Tatum to carry the scoring load i think there's a little bit of value lost adding another primary scoring option. And that's a pretty massive lost of defensive versatility, not to mention Brown is on a value contract going forward and Beal only has two years left.

Beal is owned a ton of money over the next 5 years. Actually he has 3 years left, with the last being a player option. With three picks and Hayward's expiring contract they could start to rebuild, even if Wall never plays another game. Beal would fit in with Brown and Tatum just fine.

As for Brown, I view him as untouchable at this point. He's a max player talent-wise on a team friendly non-max contract that runs through 2024. And he doesn't turn 24 until October.

Sacramento fans thought that Boogie was worth more the Buddy Hield, too.

Something around:

BOS: Beal for Hayward
IND: Hayward for Oladipo, salary
WAS: Oladipo, salary for Beal

Add picks to even it out, McDermott & Leaf for salary.

[Curmudgeon]

I like Hayward and however many picks it takes to Sacrament for Barnes and Bjelica.
Let me add that people are undervaluing picks this year. Oh, it's supposed to be a terrible draft-- but it's not that terrible, and with the cap going down, every team is going to want cost-controlled young players.

And in a flat draft, picks towards the end of round one and the beginning of round 2 become almost as valuable as picks 1-5, because you have to pay top picks so much more. Look at how much the Sixers had to pay Embiid and Fultz for years in which neither one played.

[MagicBagley18]

To get beal the convo starts with Jaylen brown

Ya I wouldn't trade Brown for Beal. Beal is the better player for sure, but on a team that already has Walker and Tatum to carry the scoring load i think there's a little bit of value lost adding another primary scoring option. And that's a pretty massive lost of defensive versatility, not to mention Brown is on a value contract going forward and Beal only has two years left.

Beal is owned a ton of money over the next 5 years. Actually he has 3 years left, with the last being a player option. With three picks and Hayward's expiring contract they could start to rebuild, even if Wall never plays another game. Beal would fit in with Brown and Tatum just fine.

As for Brown, I view him as untouchable at this point. He's a max player talent-wise on a team friendly non-max contract that runs through 2024. And he doesn't turn 24 until October.

Sacramento fans thought that Boogie was worth more the Buddy Hield, too.

Never would they accept Hayward for beal. Brown is far from untouchable also but we can agree to disagree on both points. The owner doesn’t want to completely tank and even if they did they’d want to get someone to pair with rui and picks to off load walls deal

[djFan71]

I like Hayward and however many picks it takes to Sacrament for Barnes and Bjelica.
Let me add that people are undervaluing picks this year. Oh, it's supposed to be a terrible draft-- but it's not that terrible, and with the cap going down, every team is going to want cost-controlled young players.

And in a flat draft, picks towards the end of round one and the beginning of round 2 become almost as valuable as picks 1-5, because you have to pay top picks so much more. Look at how much the Sixers had to pay Embiid and Fultz for years in which neither one played.

Yeah, I like the idea of Barnes too. Had a few iterations of trades for him before in this thread. Couple issues for me are, 1) I doubt Hayward wants to go there, but you 3 team it with IND or something. I would opt-out if I were him and you tried to send me to SAC.... I know, 34M reasons not to. 2) Barnes isn't nearly as good. And if you just extend Hayward, his $ in the years when Tatum's max kicks in will be pretty similar to Barnes. 3) You gotta pay Bjelicia starting the following year as well, or treat him as a rental.

So, you're kinda downgrading the team next year and going forward for not much benefit. Unless you just love those 2 guys and think the combo of them is better than Hayward, it works out better to just keep Gordon and draft well.

[MagicBagley18]

Someone help me out...can a player like Mitchell be signed and traded if he signs his max extension? What r the restrictions

[Curmudgeon]

So, you're kinda downgrading the team next year and going forward for not much benefit. Unless you just love those 2 guys and think the combo of them is better than Hayward, it works out better to just keep Gordon and draft well.

Why is Hayward for Barnes and Bjelica a downgrade? Barnes is a better defender than Hayward and Bjelica is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league.

The only reason the Kings do it is to save money, because Barnes is signed long term. I also believe that one or more of the Celtics' first rounders might be attractive to a rebuilding team. And what are the Celtics going to do with three more guaranteed contracts if they actually use those picks? Do you see anyone out there who is clearly better than Javonte Green, Tacko Fall or Tremont Waters? I don't.

[djFan71]

So, you're kinda downgrading the team next year and going forward for not much benefit. Unless you just love those 2 guys and think the combo of them is better than Hayward, it works out better to just keep Gordon and draft well.

Why is Hayward for Barnes and Bjelica a downgrade? Barnes is a better defender than Hayward and Bjelica is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league.

The only reason the Kings do it is to save money, because Barnes is signed long term. I also believe that one or more of the Celtics' first rounders might be attractive to a rebuilding team. And what are the Celtics going to do with three more guaranteed contracts if they actually use those picks? Do you see anyone out there who is clearly better than Javonte Green, Tacko Fall or Tremont Waters? I don't.

I'm not sure Barnes is a better defender, but will admit to not digging into his defense enough to argue. He's taller, but Gordon outrebounds him. He scores less and less efficiently on offense and Gordon has more playmaking ability. Bjelica is a great shooter, I'd worry about what we do with him on D - basically the Kanter treatment. I like both as players and wouldn't mind having either, I just think Hayward is better.

I'm not in the least bit concerned about Green, Fall & Waters. You definitely could improve on them with 3 shots at it. I do think we could consolidate or do some trade if it makes sense, but I'm not doing it because I'm worried about keeping spots for any of those 3. Or Semi. None of whom are guaranteed anything beyond Javonte's $100k.

[djFan71]

From Constable Geneva's post in the Hayward Bucks thread:

Kemba/Brown/Tatum/Theis with Gordo: 116.6 ORtg (92nd percentile), 104.7 DRtg (93rd percentile), +11.9 NRtg (97th percentile)
Kemba/Brown/Tatum/Theis with Smart: 105.0 ORtg (13th percentile), 100.0 DRtg (99th percentile), +5.0 NRtg (80th percentile)
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1991742#p84560112

Hayward's really good.

[ConstableGeneva]

From Constable Geneva's post in the Hayward Bucks thread:

Kemba/Brown/Tatum/Theis with Gordo: 116.6 ORtg (92nd percentile), 104.7 DRtg (93rd percentile), +11.9 NRtg (97th percentile)
Kemba/Brown/Tatum/Theis with Smart: 105.0 ORtg (13th percentile), 100.0 DRtg (99th percentile), +5.0 NRtg (80th percentile)
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1991742#p84560112

Hayward's really good.

If he ever gets traded, it would not be for basketball reasons.

[Curmudgeon]

My problem with Hayward is durability. He's a fine player, but would you be happy giving him the kind of extension that Horford got from the Sixers?

[bucknersrevenge]

My problem with Hayward is durability. He's a fine player, but would you be happy giving him the kind of extension that Horford got from the Sixers?

That is something I DEFINITELY don't want to see nor can we really afford. If he wants to opt-out and let us re-sign him for 3/65-70M, I could be talked into that. But if he opts in, I'm opting out after that. I know he's a good player. But sorry not sorry. Gotta draw the line.