Trade Talk (Part Four)

[KGdaBom]

Ok the trade board sucked me in. But I thought a wonderful but crazy thought exercise here.

We know Rosas has Rockets roots. What if Rockets get bounced in first round. Any chance — as suggested on main trade board — Wolves would make a call on Harden? If he was remotely made available, do Timberwolves consider?

I would assume it would be:

Russell + Culver + #1 Overall + #17 + Future Draft Consideration for Harden.

Does that get Rockets to move Harden?

Does a Towns & Harden pairing excite the Wolves fan base?

If we are trading for Harden, this is as high as I go.

MIN: James Harden
OUT: James Johnson, Jarrett Culver, Omari Spellman, #1, #17, and multiple firsts*

The entire point of getting Harden would be to add him to our two existing stars, in my opinion. I laid out a three way trade with Golden State below.

Spoiler:

GSW: James Johnson (TPE), Omari Spellman, and #17
OUT: Minnesota's 2021 First Round Draft Pick (1-3 Protected)

Why for Golden State? Cash in on Minnesota's pick this year and get a large, tradeable salary in place of their TPE.

HOU: Jarrett Culver, #1, and multiple firsts*
OUT: James Harden

Why for Houston? Get the first overall draft pick, a talented young wing, a multitude of firsts, and save massive amounts of money by ducking the Luxury-Tax (which is important to Houston's owner).

MIN: James Harden
OUT: James Johnson, Jarrett Culver, Omari Spellman, #1, #17, and multiple firsts*

Why for Minnesota? James Harden.

*Multiple Firsts:

2021 First Round Draft Pick (Unprotected)
2022 First Round Draft Pick Swap
2023 First Rounds Draft Pick (Unprotected)
2024 First Round Draft Pick Swap
2025 First Round Draft Pick (Unprotected)

Do the Wolves have the cap space to do Johnson + Culver and get back Harden (not including Russell)?

I am torn. If Wolves can get enough defense some how, Harden and Towns is plenty of offense. But after such a trade, Wolves are capped and asset void. Isn’t that the same predicament Rockets are in now? Wolves would need to be convinced remaining roster is championship level in the West.

If you want us to get Defense that's spelled Okongwu.

[Wolveswin]

That is the issue, though, that is basically nothing. Really no strong incentive for Indiana to pull the trigger on that, even with Oladipo's really rough performances since coming back from his injury. I think the hold up would be Jarrett Culver, in all honesty.

Culver would thrive in indiana, we would regret this trade for years.

For the record, I wrote Johnson, #17 and Omari Spellman/#33.

I would not offer Culver. I think the chance that we would retain Oladipo on a good contract after one season is maybe 1-in-4.

What if Dipo was used to get Simmons? Not sure Pacers and 76ers want to play nice, but not out of the realm of possibility.

Pacers Give: Dipo
Pacers Get: Culver + #17 + Johnson
Pacers Reasoning: as other have said, Culver might thrive in Indy, Johnson is nice stop gap PF for them and they get a 1st.

76ers Give: Simmons
76ers Get: Dipo + #1 Overall + Wolves Future Draft Consideration
76ers Reasoning: Dipo as lead guard with Embiid might be enticing enough to re-sign. Philly gets out of tax with trade in preparation for Dipo and possible Richardson huge investments.
Embiid
Horford
Harris
Richardson
Dipo
Plus #1 overall. Edwards maybe and they let Richardson walk (or use him to dump Horford and start the Edwards and Thybulle era next to Dipo).

Wolves Give: #1 Overall + Culver + #17 + Johnson + Future Draft Consideration
Wolves Get: Simmons
Wolves Reasoning: all-in for Simmons as part of big 3.
Towns
Hernangomez | Spellman
Simmons
Beasley | Okogie
Russell

[post0115]

Couple trades for thought.

1. MN/CHI - Bulls trade #4 and Lauri Markkanen for #1

Pros: Markkanen can be a stretch 4, put length at the 4 next to KAT, will thrive in our space/spread offense, and can give 20 and 10 on a number of nights. We can likely get a player at 4 that we covet anyway (Avdija, Hayes, Vassell, etc.)
Cons: Markkanen will be coming up on extension/free agency soon and isn't a max player.

2. MN/NYK - Trade Josh Okogie (Thibs guy) for Dennis Smith Jr

Pros: Get a scoring PG who could thrive on our team who is still young and athletic. Get out of the lineup awkwardness from the pairing of Okogie and Culver together (both can't shoot)
Cons: Let go of Okogie's talent/promise at just 22 years of age

[Midw35t]

There is no way I'd entertain Okogie for DSJ.

Chicago one I would be fine with and is the trade we should look at first. That or Charlotte and try to get PJ Washington.

[Ducklett]

Has Isaac been talked about in this thread?

Despite his injury and injury history, his defense is ideal next to Wolves. And if you believe some reports, Wolves are really planning for future and not all-in on 2020/21 season.

Bulls Give: LaVine + #4
Bulls Get: #1 Overall + J. Johnson
Bulls Reasoning: if they see Edwards or Ball as difference maker worth trading up at cost of LaVine. I also don’t think they are a team rather wanting Isaac being they have Markkanen (both who need new contracts). Bulls would also have a ton of expiring contracts and options (call up Warriors offering Johnson or bigger deal taking on Wiggins for Porter Jr.).

Magic Give: Isaac + Aminu
Magic Get: LaVine + Vanderbilt + #17
Magic Reasoning: they seem like a team fine with making 8th seed of playoffs and not wanting to tear it down. LaVine gives them more firepower and a fairly dangerous team in East.

Wolves Give: #1 Overall + #17 + J. Johnson + Vanderbilt
Wolves Get: #4 Overall + Isaac + Aminu
Wolves Reasoning: trade back to #4 for a player Rosas really likes anyway (Avdjia?). Isaac can mend all year with Wolves being deep at PF.
Towns
Hernangomez | Spellman | Aminu | Layman
Culver | #4?
Beasley | Okogie
Russell

I like it. I would not trade Vanderbilt as does not have much value for ORL, so I'd try to develop him next season. I still believe in this kid. Let Isaac recover, negotiate a team-friendly extension like GSW did with Steph Curry.

Bulls Give: LaVine + #4
Bulls Get: #1 Overall + J. Johnson + Evans

Magic Give: Isaac + Aminu
Magic Get: LaVine + Spellman + Nowell + #17

Wolves Give: #1 Overall + #17 + J. Johnson + Spellman + Nowell + Evans
Wolves Get: #4 Overall + Isaac + Aminu

Draft Hayes, Tillie.

Towns/Reid/Tillie
Hernangomez/Aminu/Vanderbilt + Isaac
Culver/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Russell
Russell/Hayes/JMac

Another version for those who like Ball or Edwards and like keeping vet Johnson.

Magic Give: Isaac + Aminu
Magic Get: Beasley (S&T) + #17 + Spellman

Wolves Give: Beasley (S&T) + #17 + Spellman
Wolves Get: Isaac + Aminu

Wolves then draft Edwards or Ball, keep Johnson to start maybe? And he expires before Isaac needs to get paid and play.
Towns | Reid
Johnson | Hernangomez | Vanderbilt | Aminu
Culver
Edwards | Okogie
Russell

OR

Towns | Reid
Johnson | Hernangomez | Vanderbilt | Aminu
Culver
Russell | Okogie
Ball

I'm not trying to come in here and dump on your guys' parade or anything, but in what world do you think the Magic trade JI for the 17th pick in a bad draft...

[Wolveswin]

I like it. I would not trade Vanderbilt as does not have much value for ORL, so I'd try to develop him next season. I still believe in this kid. Let Isaac recover, negotiate a team-friendly extension like GSW did with Steph Curry.

Bulls Give: LaVine + #4
Bulls Get: #1 Overall + J. Johnson + Evans

Magic Give: Isaac + Aminu
Magic Get: LaVine + Spellman + Nowell + #17

Wolves Give: #1 Overall + #17 + J. Johnson + Spellman + Nowell + Evans
Wolves Get: #4 Overall + Isaac + Aminu

Draft Hayes, Tillie.

Towns/Reid/Tillie
Hernangomez/Aminu/Vanderbilt + Isaac
Culver/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Russell
Russell/Hayes/JMac

Another version for those who like Ball or Edwards and like keeping vet Johnson.

Magic Give: Isaac + Aminu
Magic Get: Beasley (S&T) + #17 + Spellman

Wolves Give: Beasley (S&T) + #17 + Spellman
Wolves Get: Isaac + Aminu

Wolves then draft Edwards or Ball, keep Johnson to start maybe? And he expires before Isaac needs to get paid and play.
Towns | Reid
Johnson | Hernangomez | Vanderbilt | Aminu
Culver
Edwards | Okogie
Russell

OR

Towns | Reid
Johnson | Hernangomez | Vanderbilt | Aminu
Culver
Russell | Okogie
Ball

I'm not trying to come in here and dump on your guys' parade or anything, but in what world do you think the Magic trade JI for the 17th pick in a bad draft...

I think you may have missed LaVine or Beasley being the main value in each scenario. The #17 is the side dish to the main course.

[Ducklett]

Another version for those who like Ball or Edwards and like keeping vet Johnson.

Magic Give: Isaac + Aminu
Magic Get: Beasley (S&T) + #17 + Spellman

Wolves Give: Beasley (S&T) + #17 + Spellman
Wolves Get: Isaac + Aminu

Wolves then draft Edwards or Ball, keep Johnson to start maybe? And he expires before Isaac needs to get paid and play.
Towns | Reid
Johnson | Hernangomez | Vanderbilt | Aminu
Culver
Edwards | Okogie
Russell

OR

Towns | Reid
Johnson | Hernangomez | Vanderbilt | Aminu
Culver
Russell | Okogie
Ball

I'm not trying to come in here and dump on your guys' parade or anything, but in what world do you think the Magic trade JI for the 17th pick in a bad draft...

I think you may have missed LaVine or Beasley being the main value in each scenario. The #17 is the side dish to the main course.

I don't consider either of those players to be a "main course". Although Lavine is much closer than Malik Beasley.

[Wolveswin]

I'm not trying to come in here and dump on your guys' parade or anything, but in what world do you think the Magic trade JI for the 17th pick in a bad draft...

I think you may have missed LaVine or Beasley being the main value in each scenario. The #17 is the side dish to the main course.

I don't consider either of those players to be a "main course". Although Lavine is much closer than Malik Beasley.

Same for Isaac. Injury history, sitting out whole season (while getting paid and roster spot) and contract status. He isn’t main course offering neither.

[Ducklett]

I think you may have missed LaVine or Beasley being the main value in each scenario. The #17 is the side dish to the main course.

I don't consider either of those players to be a "main course". Although Lavine is much closer than Malik Beasley.

Same for Isaac. Injury history, sitting out whole season (while getting paid and roster spot) and contract status. He isn’t main course offering neither.

You might not be wrong, but I rather keep Isaac and see what happens (possible DPOTY). Giving up on the dream for meh players and meh picks doesn't do anything for me, personally.

[KGdaBom]

Couple trades for thought.

1. MN/CHI - Bulls trade #4 and Lauri Markkanen for #1

Pros: Markkanen can be a stretch 4, put length at the 4 next to KAT, will thrive in our space/spread offense, and can give 20 and 10 on a number of nights. We can likely get a player at 4 that we covet anyway (Avdija, Hayes, Vassell, etc.)
Cons: Markkanen will be coming up on extension/free agency soon and isn't a max player.

2. MN/NYK - Trade Josh Okogie (Thibs guy) for Dennis Smith Jr

Pros: Get a scoring PG who could thrive on our team who is still young and athletic. Get out of the lineup awkwardness from the pairing of Okogie and Culver together (both can't shoot)
Cons: Let go of Okogie's talent/promise at just 22 years of age

It's probably worth the 3 pick slide to get Markkanen.
I wouldn't take DSJ if offered to us for a top 59 protected pick.

[KGdaBom]

There is no way I'd entertain Okogie for DSJ.

Chicago one I would be fine with and is the trade we should look at first. That or Charlotte and try to get PJ Washington.

Washington and 3 for #1 is probably a pipe dream. Maybe if we throw in Culver.

[KGdaBom]

I don't consider either of those players to be a "main course". Although Lavine is much closer than Malik Beasley.

Same for Isaac. Injury history, sitting out whole season (while getting paid and roster spot) and contract status. He isn’t main course offering neither.

You might not be wrong, but I rather keep Isaac and see what happens (possible DPOTY). Giving up on the dream for meh players and meh picks doesn't do anything for me, personally.

LaVine is far more than Meh and as cool as the dream may seem, I would not consider for one second trading LaVine for Isaac. I probably wouldn't trade Beasley for Isaac. Isaac is fools gold IMO.

[Neeva]

Markannen is overated , barely worth moving up one spot much less all the way to number one.

[KGdaBom]

Markannen is overated , barely worth moving up one spot much less all the way to number one.

And you know this how?
He fits the Archetype. We have to have him.

[Neeva]

Markannen is overated , barely worth moving up one spot much less all the way to number one.

And you know this how?
He fits the Archetype. We have to have him.

Why would we want someone who keeps getting worse every year since his rookie season, who is set for a new contract and is injury prone, no thank you. let him be the bulls disappointment.

[Klomp]

Couple trades for thought.
2. MN/NYK - Trade Josh Okogie (Thibs guy) for Dennis Smith Jr

Pros: Get a scoring PG who could thrive on our team who is still young and athletic. Get out of the lineup awkwardness from the pairing of Okogie and Culver together (both can't shoot)
Cons: Let go of Okogie's talent/promise at just 22 years of age

I was thinking about this team, but I was actually thinking of trying for Kevin Knox.

[Neeva]

Couple trades for thought.
2. MN/NYK - Trade Josh Okogie (Thibs guy) for Dennis Smith Jr

Pros: Get a scoring PG who could thrive on our team who is still young and athletic. Get out of the lineup awkwardness from the pairing of Okogie and Culver together (both can't shoot)
Cons: Let go of Okogie's talent/promise at just 22 years of age

I was thinking about this team, but I was actually thinking of trying for Kevin Knox.

Okogie has more value (he is playable) and less expensive than Knox or DSJ so any trade must involve something going back to the wolves even if it is just an exchange of pic 27 and 33.

[KGdaBom]

Markannen is overated , barely worth moving up one spot much less all the way to number one.

And you know this how?
He fits the Archetype. We have to have him.

Why would we want someone who keeps getting worse every year since his rookie season, who is set for a new contract and is injury prone, no thank you. let him be the bulls disappointment.

He was the 7th pick in the draft and most had him as huge success his rookie year. I haven't paid that much attention since as he was overshadowed by LaVine becoming a top 10 or better scorer in the NBA. Has he definitely regressed the last two years? I think he has skills we could use and according to many not much difference between player 1 IMO wiseman and player 2 Okongwu who we can probably get at pick 4. Of course doubling up at PF with Markkanen and Okongwu might make Avdija the better choice. So to summarize in your opinion #1 whoever you like best has better value than Markkanen and Avdija. Correct?

[KGdaBom]

The more I think about it I really like the idea of getting Markkanen (if he doesn't suck now as Neeva believes) and Avdija. Makes us tall and skillful at both SF and PF the two weakest positions on our current team.

[KGdaBom]

Couple trades for thought.
2. MN/NYK - Trade Josh Okogie (Thibs guy) for Dennis Smith Jr

Pros: Get a scoring PG who could thrive on our team who is still young and athletic. Get out of the lineup awkwardness from the pairing of Okogie and Culver together (both can't shoot)
Cons: Let go of Okogie's talent/promise at just 22 years of age

I was thinking about this team, but I was actually thinking of trying for Kevin Knox.

IMO Knox is just a guy. Not interested.