Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season

[vincecarter4pres]

I removed the trade targets because at this point in time, I don't think a lot of those names even make sense for this team outside of a few, and I have a hard time seeing why the teams that currently have them under contract would even want to trade them to us. Also, I highly doubt Marks will hard cap us in an S&T.

Free Agent Targets:



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Taxpayer's MLE/BAE/Vet Minimum:

Guards/Wings:

Kris Dunn: Should be a top target.
Avery Bradley


Tweeners:

Marvin Williams
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Marcus Morris
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson

I'm mainly looking at guys who can defend in the backcourt and on the wing.

I have a feeling that we're going to get some names for the minimum when the smoke clears.

Marvin Williams, Bradley and MKG would be exciting on the cheap.

Morris too, but he’s so unlikable.

[ProspectPark]

20/7 all-nba defender who will likely make it for the 3rd time this year.



Caris levert is not young. he is 26 and will be in his 5th year after coming out as a senior and off his rookie deal. no GM considers him a young asset.



He did not have a strong year. 18 points on awful efficiency, below average shooting, and low assist rate for his volume with below average to awful defense and the team was better when he sat vs played.



This is completely riddiculous. good players create easy shots for themselves. saying you miss alot because you take tough shots just means you arent good enough to get better shots or have awful shot selection. and its not like he is just inefficient, among players who take 10+ shots he is among the worst efficiency in the enitre league and thats 2 years running



Levert not being able to stay healthy is part of the criticism. its not good to always be hurt.



in every scenario he has awful efficiency. starter vs bench. and all of his 5-man lineups. he has plenty of shooters around him.



no you are the homer that twists yourself in a pretzel to try and make someone good and uses enormously small samples of good ignoring enormous samples of bad.

as far as context, again when someone is poor in every split imaginable he probably isnt super efficient or a good scorer. thats what we have issue with. ignoring 200+ games of data to focos on a 12 game sample. If anyone is ignoring context its you. if anyone is using anecdotal stuff its you. if anyone has recency bias its you.

The analysis I provided was from The Athletic. Not everything pro-LeVert is some sort of homer conspiracy. Other NBA players, coaches, GMs, scouts, analysts, have all agreed that Caris LeVert has 3rd star potential. This is not debatable. Specifically, LeVert’s size, handles, long strides, and ability to break down defenders and make plays for teammates is exactly what you want from your 3rd option.

26 year old just entering his prime on a team friendly 3 year contract is an asset. When the contract was signed Zach Lowe and 538 wrote articles about Brooklyn’s depth and how we have all these assets. All this talk about trading him is because he’s....An Asset

Are you seriously arguing LeVert’s efficiency wont improve with KD and Kyrie on the court? With Chiozza and Garrett Temple, he was getting whatever he wanted. With KD and Kyrie drawing most of the defensive attention, any player in that 3rd option role will get easier baskets and increase their efficiency.

The only thing we know for sure is small backcourts like Kyrie/Beal are usually defensive disasters and never win, and paying max money to undersized guards who are over 30 like Jrue pretty much always results in buyers remorse midway through the contract.

Caris LeVert will be a Brooklyn Net for a very long time.

i dont think levert will play much with KD and Kyrie. He doesnt have the tools as non primary option to do anyyhing positve offensively. he needs to be 6th man so he can be a #1 option off the bench.

Caris doesnt have fringe star potentialy as a #1 with huge volume, let alone as a #3 doing things he is poor at.

I’m sure we will have a flexible roster. Lots of plug and play pieces depending on matchups and coaching adjustments. Caris will get plenty of minutes with KD and Kyrie.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Good list VC4P. Gary Harris would be an awesome get but I'm pretty sure Nuggets ain't letting him go. Kris Dunn should be able to get for cheap and so should Moe Harkless and/or Marvin Williams. Aaron Baynes would also be another guy I want if we get rid of one of our centers. There's a whole lot of opportunities for us here, we need to cash all in now.

Idk, a team like Denver just can’t pay all these guys, hell a team like the Nets can’t for sustained years either.

They have 2 max contracts, a few reasonable ones like Harris’ and Barton’s and hope to retain Grant, Morris and Craig soon and have aspirations to consolidate and trade for another expensive 3rd star.

He seems like the odd man out and is a good, but not great player, even in the context of his specific role. I’d bet he could be had on the semi-cheap, maybe as part of a 3 team deal where we kick a pick, a prospect, Prince and Temple in to add value to their package.

Are you guys really sold on Gary Harris?

Hes on a pretty big contract and hes been a terrible 3 point shooter the last few years.

I think there are much cheaper options through the draft and FA.

[DarkXaero]

Good list VC4P. Gary Harris would be an awesome get but I'm pretty sure Nuggets ain't letting him go. Kris Dunn should be able to get for cheap and so should Moe Harkless and/or Marvin Williams. Aaron Baynes would also be another guy I want if we get rid of one of our centers. There's a whole lot of opportunities for us here, we need to cash all in now.

I love Baynes.

Dunn is the same size as Jrue, not quite the class of defender, and not the offensive player he is. Dunn has seemed to struggle to find a role because of his offense and being good but not great defensively. he more fits the scenario to me where if he was bigger maybe. but hard to give him Guard minutes with his offense

Dunn is the same class as a defender, his defensive metrics were excellent on a team that wasn't good defensively. He excelled in all advanced defensive stats. Like I've been saying, his problem is that he is really trash offensively, but maybe we can make it work here next to two offensive stars in Kyrie & KD.

[DarkXaero]

@vincecarter4pres Nice breakdown of possible targets. I'm just curious as for why some of those "long shot" names are considered long shots for you (whether its from our perspective or the other team's). You put Embiid as "reasonably realistic" but I think that's probably the longest shot of all.

Well Embiid for example, I feel there’s a reasonable shot he’s dealt this off-season or by the deadline and he’s a guy we’d obviously be all over and as I’ve posted before, I truly believe a deal like Dinwiddie and/or LeVert, Allen and picks is not only good value, but an absolute great fit with Simmons now and going forward.

Then a couple of guys on the long shot list, for example:

Eric Gordon - Houston would love to deal him whether they’re blowing it up or changing things up, but he’d probably be a guy we only had interest in if we made a move for a guy like Gobert with all our wing depth and picks/prospects, and dealt say Prince and Musa for him with a 2nd.

Robert Covington JR. - Marks probably would love this guy, but so does Morey, hence why he dealt for him. They’re only going to trade him if they’re completely blowing it up, like trading Harden nuking it.

The list I made was more about guys who can play plus defense, but yours is a nice breakdown of overall possible targets.

Yours was great too, and thanks, I wanted something to reference in all scenarios.

Like if we happen to deal say Spencer and Allen for Jrue and Caris is moved to 6xth man, we’re going to need an offensive big man and bench spark plug on the cheap to build back up depth.

Or we make a full on blockbuster, giving up everything not tied down for a guy not even on this list yet, we’re going to have to add a bunch of cheap or creative trade guys.

As luck would have it, it wound up the top post on the page so it’s easy to bookmark and go back to whenever.

I feel like Sixers will probably ride out another season with Embiid and Simmons, before making that possible decision. Going by their comments, and just the general feel around that organization right now, I don't think they're ready to break up Simmons & Embiid duo yet. I think Tobias and Al will end up being available if teams want, but not the two main stars yet.

I was curious to see why you had Derrick White, and Lavine on your long shot list. I understand that White has really solid value as a 3&D guard, but imo, a trade like Jarrett Allen for Derrick White definitely works for both teams (assuming we find a way to replace Allen). Allen actually probably has more trade value than White, as he is 4 years younger than White, and has been a more featured starter for these past two seasons (with more minutes played as well). Lavine is like a Jrue Holiday type target to me, in terms of what it would take to get him (probably a bit more than what it would take for Jrue). You also have Danny Green there, who I would consider very attainable, as he has really underperformed for Lakers.

[DarkXaero]

Holiday is 30 and made how many all nba defense teams? 1, 2? Wow, let’s trade the farm.

20/7 all-nba defender who will likely make it for the 3rd time this year.

What young asset:

[spoiler]Here’s how one of the best talent evaluators Sam Vecenie from The Athletic described Caris LeVert:

Caris levert is not young. he is 26 and will be in his 5th year after coming out as a senior and off his rookie deal. no GM considers him a young asset.

LeVert had a strong year again, basically backing up what he did as a third-year player prior to his injury. If anything, he actually got better this year. He was coming on strong as the season ended. From Feb. 3 onward, LeVert averaged 24.1 points, 4.8 rebounds and 5.1 assists. Even more than Spencer Dinwiddie, LeVert was becoming the leader in the absence of Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant. He punctuated it with a 51-point onslaught in Boston to lead Brooklyn to a pretty big win, then followed it up in the last game before the break with 22 points, seven rebounds and four assists against the Lakers in a win.

He did not have a strong year. 18 points on awful efficiency, below average shooting, and low assist rate for his volume with below average to awful defense and the team was better when he sat vs played.

1. When you evaluate a player’s efficiency, you have to account for how are their points scored. LeVert doesn’t get easy baskets. All of his baskets are scored in the most difficult way possible. Breaking down multiple defenders and finishing or shooting over a rim protecting big. The bet we’re making, is with KD and Kyrie and other high IQ players LeVert will get easier baskets resulting in his efficiency sky rocketing.

This is completely riddiculous. good players create easy shots for themselves. saying you miss alot because you take tough shots just means you arent good enough to get better shots or have awful shot selection. and its not like he is just inefficient, among players who take 10+ shots he is among the worst efficiency in the enitre league and thats 2 years running

2. When a player is injured for long stretches, he loses his conditioning. We just saw Oladipo come back and not play well. If you ever touched a basketball or did anything athletic in life you would understand this. When you dislocate your foot, it’s kind of hard to run and stay in peak NBA game shape.

Levert not being able to stay healthy is part of the criticism. its not good to always be hurt.

3. The coaching scheme. Was the coach using LeVert in a way that maximized his strengths? Why did his efficiency dramatically increase when he was allowed to take more shots from mid range? Who were his teammates? Was he surrounded by shooters? Did the defense sag off his teammates limiting him his ability to drive to the basket? These and many more are all details that need to be accounted for.

in every scenario he has awful efficiency. starter vs bench. and all of his 5-man lineups. he has plenty of shooters around him.

You’re pretty much the guy that ignores all the context and details and dumbs everything down to simple TS%. Does it really take much basketball IQ to figure out how to sort players based on TS% on Bball-Ref. A small child can do that.

no you are the homer that twists yourself in a pretzel to try and make someone good and uses enormously small samples of good ignoring enormous samples of bad.

as far as context, again when someone is poor in every split imaginable he probably isnt super efficient or a good scorer. thats what we have issue with. ignoring 200+ games of data to focos on a 12 game sample. If anyone is ignoring context its you. if anyone is using anecdotal stuff its you. if anyone has recency bias its you.

The analysis I provided was from The Athletic. Not everything pro-LeVert is some sort of homer conspiracy. Other NBA players, coaches, GMs, scouts, analysts, have all agreed that Caris LeVert has 3rd star potential. This is not debatable. Specifically, LeVert’s size, handles, long strides, and ability to break down defenders and make plays for teammates is exactly what you want from your 3rd option.

26 year old just entering his prime on a team friendly 3 year contract is an asset. When the contract was signed Zach Lowe and 538 wrote articles about Brooklyn’s depth and how we have all these assets. All this talk about trading him is because he’s....An Asset

Are you seriously arguing LeVert’s efficiency wont improve with KD and Kyrie on the court? With Chiozza and Garrett Temple, he was getting whatever he wanted. With KD and Kyrie drawing most of the defensive attention, any player in that 3rd option role will get easier baskets and increase their efficiency.

The only thing we know for sure is small backcourts like Kyrie/Beal are usually defensive disasters and never win, and paying max money to undersized guards who are over 30 like Jrue pretty much always results in buyers remorse midway through the contract.

Caris LeVert will be a Brooklyn Net for a very long time.

You're citing all this "analysis" from the Athletic, Zach Lowe, and 538, yet at the same time, you completely refuse to support the idea of having Jrue here, who is an analytical darling for those same analysts. Both you and Hello Brooklyn constantly do this, and ironically also agree on the same points. I don't even necessarily disagree on you with some of the things regarding Levert, but its just baffling to constantly see you guys do this

"The only thing we know for sure is small backcourts like Kyrie/Beal are usually defensive disasters and never win"- Dude, an ultra small backcourt of Kyle Lowry & Fred VanVleet just won the NBA championship last year, what are you talking about? Those guys are actually close to 5'11", like you keep claiming

[vincecarter4pres]

@vincecarter4pres Nice breakdown of possible targets. I'm just curious as for why some of those "long shot" names are considered long shots for you (whether its from our perspective or the other team's). You put Embiid as "reasonably realistic" but I think that's probably the longest shot of all.

Well Embiid for example, I feel there’s a reasonable shot he’s dealt this off-season or by the deadline and he’s a guy we’d obviously be all over and as I’ve posted before, I truly believe a deal like Dinwiddie and/or LeVert, Allen and picks is not only good value, but an absolute great fit with Simmons now and going forward.

Then a couple of guys on the long shot list, for example:

Eric Gordon - Houston would love to deal him whether they’re blowing it up or changing things up, but he’d probably be a guy we only had interest in if we made a move for a guy like Gobert with all our wing depth and picks/prospects, and dealt say Prince and Musa for him with a 2nd.

Robert Covington JR. - Marks probably would love this guy, but so does Morey, hence why he dealt for him. They’re only going to trade him if they’re completely blowing it up, like trading Harden nuking it.

The list I made was more about guys who can play plus defense, but yours is a nice breakdown of overall possible targets.

Yours was great too, and thanks, I wanted something to reference in all scenarios.

Like if we happen to deal say Spencer and Allen for Jrue and Caris is moved to 6xth man, we’re going to need an offensive big man and bench spark plug on the cheap to build back up depth.

Or we make a full on blockbuster, giving up everything not tied down for a guy not even on this list yet, we’re going to have to add a bunch of cheap or creative trade guys.

As luck would have it, it wound up the top post on the page so it’s easy to bookmark and go back to whenever.

I feel like Sixers will probably ride out another season with Embiid and Simmons, before making that possible decision. Going by their comments, and just the general feel around that organization right now, I don't think they're ready to break up Simmons & Embiid duo yet. I think Tobias and Al will end up being available if teams want, but not the two main stars yet.

I was curious to see why you had Derrick White, and Lavine on your long shot list. I understand that White has really solid value as a 3&D guard, but imo, a trade like Jarrett Allen for Derrick White definitely works for both teams (assuming we find a way to replace Allen). Allen actually probably has more trade value than White, as he is 4 years younger than White, and has been a more featured starter for these past two seasons (with more minutes played as well). Lavine is like a Jrue Holiday type target to me, in terms of what it would take to get him (probably a bit more than what it would take for Jrue). You also have Danny Green there, who I would consider very attainable, as he has really underperformed for Lakers.

I mainly agree on Embiid, we're probably not seeing him moved on draft day unless a crazy offer is made for him that Philly just can't turn down, but even then, with Brand still in charge he'll double down on his mistakes before salvaging things.

Yeah, Derrick White and Lavine were on the long shot list because without giving up Allen or maybe Caris, I don't see San An trading him either and I think Marks values both of those guys over White, both for our team and as trade chips. Same kind of thing with Lavine, I'm of the opinion Marks wouldn't straight break the bank for him, whether I would or not. So White being dealt to any team period, I believe to be a long shot and Lavine to Brooklyn isn't likely.

As for Green, I don't see the Lakers trading him, at least to us, unless it was for Dinwiddie or LeVert, which I wouldn't do and don't see Marks doing either. They need his expiring contract, so unless they're getting back an expiring and a reasonable asset, or a better player on expiring, or a player they like on a multi-year, they really can't trade him as of now.

[ProspectPark]

20/7 all-nba defender who will likely make it for the 3rd time this year.



Caris levert is not young. he is 26 and will be in his 5th year after coming out as a senior and off his rookie deal. no GM considers him a young asset.



He did not have a strong year. 18 points on awful efficiency, below average shooting, and low assist rate for his volume with below average to awful defense and the team was better when he sat vs played.



This is completely riddiculous. good players create easy shots for themselves. saying you miss alot because you take tough shots just means you arent good enough to get better shots or have awful shot selection. and its not like he is just inefficient, among players who take 10+ shots he is among the worst efficiency in the enitre league and thats 2 years running



Levert not being able to stay healthy is part of the criticism. its not good to always be hurt.



in every scenario he has awful efficiency. starter vs bench. and all of his 5-man lineups. he has plenty of shooters around him.



no you are the homer that twists yourself in a pretzel to try and make someone good and uses enormously small samples of good ignoring enormous samples of bad.

as far as context, again when someone is poor in every split imaginable he probably isnt super efficient or a good scorer. thats what we have issue with. ignoring 200+ games of data to focos on a 12 game sample. If anyone is ignoring context its you. if anyone is using anecdotal stuff its you. if anyone has recency bias its you.

The analysis I provided was from The Athletic. Not everything pro-LeVert is some sort of homer conspiracy. Other NBA players, coaches, GMs, scouts, analysts, have all agreed that Caris LeVert has 3rd star potential. This is not debatable. Specifically, LeVert’s size, handles, long strides, and ability to break down defenders and make plays for teammates is exactly what you want from your 3rd option.

26 year old just entering his prime on a team friendly 3 year contract is an asset. When the contract was signed Zach Lowe and 538 wrote articles about Brooklyn’s depth and how we have all these assets. All this talk about trading him is because he’s....An Asset

Are you seriously arguing LeVert’s efficiency wont improve with KD and Kyrie on the court? With Chiozza and Garrett Temple, he was getting whatever he wanted. With KD and Kyrie drawing most of the defensive attention, any player in that 3rd option role will get easier baskets and increase their efficiency.

The only thing we know for sure is small backcourts like Kyrie/Beal are usually defensive disasters and never win, and paying max money to undersized guards who are over 30 like Jrue pretty much always results in buyers remorse midway through the contract.

Caris LeVert will be a Brooklyn Net for a very long time.

You're citing all this "analysis" from the Athletic, Zach Lowe, and 538, yet at the same time, you completely refuse to support the idea of having Jrue here, who is an analytical darling for those same analysts. Both you and Hello Brooklyn constantly do this, and ironically also agree on the same points. I don't even necessarily disagree on you with some of the things regarding Levert, but its just baffling to constantly see you guys do this

"The only thing we know for sure is small backcourts like Kyrie/Beal are usually defensive disasters and never win"- Dude, an ultra small backcourt of Kyle Lowry & Fred VanVleet just won the NBA championship last year, what are you talking about? Those guys are actually close to 5'11", like you keep claiming

No one is saying Jrue isn’t great. He’s just not worth $30-$40 million per year for the next 4 years. Considering his age, size, and below average shooting, he’s not worth that much, but that’s how much he will get when some dumb team gets desperate. Tobias Harris, Al Horford, Mike Conley, Andre Drummond, all great players. Do you want to spend $35 million a year on them? I don’t.

Trading for him also doesn’t guarantee that he will re-sign here. I’m not trading LeVert who makes $18 million and has 3 years left for a guy who is about to become a UFA.

6’6 215lb versatile wing defender Danny Green started at SG for the Raps. 80 games in the regular season, and every game in the playoffs.

[vincecarter4pres]

Good list VC4P. Gary Harris would be an awesome get but I'm pretty sure Nuggets ain't letting him go. Kris Dunn should be able to get for cheap and so should Moe Harkless and/or Marvin Williams. Aaron Baynes would also be another guy I want if we get rid of one of our centers. There's a whole lot of opportunities for us here, we need to cash all in now.

Idk, a team like Denver just can’t pay all these guys, hell a team like the Nets can’t for sustained years either.

They have 2 max contracts, a few reasonable ones like Harris’ and Barton’s and hope to retain Grant, Morris and Craig soon and have aspirations to consolidate and trade for another expensive 3rd star.

He seems like the odd man out and is a good, but not great player, even in the context of his specific role. I’d bet he could be had on the semi-cheap, maybe as part of a 3 team deal where we kick a pick, a prospect, Prince and Temple in to add value to their package.

Are you guys really sold on Gary Harris?

Hes on a pretty big contract and hes been a terrible 3 point shooter the last few years.

I think there are much cheaper options through the draft and FA.

I don't love Harris, but he's a super underrated defender and it's only been 2 years his 3 point shooting has dipped and again, terrible is a hyperbolic adjective, 34 and 33 percent isn't good, but it's not horrible, or really even bad, it's a hair under average. He shot 42 and 40 the 2 seasons prior. He's good off ball, he's just an average young NBA player at worst, with solid BBIQ who doesn't overextend himself and works well off ball, a good athlete too.

Yes he's on a sizable contract, yes there are cheaper options in the free agency and the draft, but it's not a horrible contract and I'd hope we could at least send out Prince in a deal for him. If that were the case, that detail is relevant, cause I take Harris over something like Prince/Musa/Temple 110 times out of 100, even if a pick and a guy like Rodi or Claxton was attached.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Idk, a team like Denver just can’t pay all these guys, hell a team like the Nets can’t for sustained years either.

They have 2 max contracts, a few reasonable ones like Harris’ and Barton’s and hope to retain Grant, Morris and Craig soon and have aspirations to consolidate and trade for another expensive 3rd star.

He seems like the odd man out and is a good, but not great player, even in the context of his specific role. I’d bet he could be had on the semi-cheap, maybe as part of a 3 team deal where we kick a pick, a prospect, Prince and Temple in to add value to their package.

Are you guys really sold on Gary Harris?

Hes on a pretty big contract and hes been a terrible 3 point shooter the last few years.

I think there are much cheaper options through the draft and FA.

I don't love Harris, but he's a super underrated defender and it's only been 2 years his 3 point shooting has dipped and again, terrible is a hyperbolic adjective, 34 and 33 percent isn't good, but it's not horrible, or really even bad, it's a hair under average. He shot 42 and 40 the 2 seasons prior. He's good off ball, he's just an average young NBA player at worst, with solid BBIQ who doesn't overextend himself and works well off ball, a good athlete too.

Yes he's on a sizable contract, yes there are cheaper options in the free agency and the draft, but it's not a horrible contract and I'd hope we could at least send out Prince in a deal for him. If that were the case, that detail is relevant, cause I take Harris over something like Prince/Musa/Temple 110 times out of 100, even if a pick and a guy like Rodi or Claxton was attached.

LOL I would do that deal.

But nobody taking Prince for anything

We have to rebuild his value next season before we trade him.

[DarkXaero]

The analysis I provided was from The Athletic. Not everything pro-LeVert is some sort of homer conspiracy. Other NBA players, coaches, GMs, scouts, analysts, have all agreed that Caris LeVert has 3rd star potential. This is not debatable. Specifically, LeVert’s size, handles, long strides, and ability to break down defenders and make plays for teammates is exactly what you want from your 3rd option.

26 year old just entering his prime on a team friendly 3 year contract is an asset. When the contract was signed Zach Lowe and 538 wrote articles about Brooklyn’s depth and how we have all these assets. All this talk about trading him is because he’s....An Asset

Are you seriously arguing LeVert’s efficiency wont improve with KD and Kyrie on the court? With Chiozza and Garrett Temple, he was getting whatever he wanted. With KD and Kyrie drawing most of the defensive attention, any player in that 3rd option role will get easier baskets and increase their efficiency.

The only thing we know for sure is small backcourts like Kyrie/Beal are usually defensive disasters and never win, and paying max money to undersized guards who are over 30 like Jrue pretty much always results in buyers remorse midway through the contract.

Caris LeVert will be a Brooklyn Net for a very long time.

You're citing all this "analysis" from the Athletic, Zach Lowe, and 538, yet at the same time, you completely refuse to support the idea of having Jrue here, who is an analytical darling for those same analysts. Both you and Hello Brooklyn constantly do this, and ironically also agree on the same points. I don't even necessarily disagree on you with some of the things regarding Levert, but its just baffling to constantly see you guys do this

"The only thing we know for sure is small backcourts like Kyrie/Beal are usually defensive disasters and never win"- Dude, an ultra small backcourt of Kyle Lowry & Fred VanVleet just won the NBA championship last year, what are you talking about? Those guys are actually close to 5'11", like you keep claiming

No one is saying Jrue isn’t great. He’s just not worth $30-$40 million per year for the next 4 years. Considering his age, size, and below average shooting, he’s not worth that much, but that’s how much he will get when some dumb team gets desperate. Tobias Harris, Al Horford, Mike Conley, Andre Drummond, all great players. Do you want to spend $35 million a year on them? I don’t.

Trading for him also doesn’t guarantee that he will re-sign here. I’m not trading LeVert who makes $18 million and has 3 years left for a guy who is about to become a UFA.

6’6 215lb versatile wing defender Danny Green started at SG for the Raps. 80 games in the regular season, and every game in the playoffs.

Nobody's talking about paying Jrue $40 mill/yr, he's currently an expiring contract on $26 mill/yr. We don't know what his next contract will be, and if we have him, its really up to Tsai/Marks to make that decision. If they're okay with it, who cares? Of course, there's no guarantee that he'll re-sign here, that's one of the risks of getting him, and why New Orleans has to be reasonable with their demands.

6'6" Danny Green was terrible for Raps in the playoffs, and a liability as they progressed. FVV started to take his minutes as they got deeper in the playoffs, and FVV was arguably Raps' 2nd best player in the NBA finals. Lowry and FVV frequently played together in their championship run, and they've started together all year this season, ending up as 2nd seed.

[ProspectPark]

Good list VC4P. Gary Harris would be an awesome get but I'm pretty sure Nuggets ain't letting him go. Kris Dunn should be able to get for cheap and so should Moe Harkless and/or Marvin Williams. Aaron Baynes would also be another guy I want if we get rid of one of our centers. There's a whole lot of opportunities for us here, we need to cash all in now.

Idk, a team like Denver just can’t pay all these guys, hell a team like the Nets can’t for sustained years either.

They have 2 max contracts, a few reasonable ones like Harris’ and Barton’s and hope to retain Grant, Morris and Craig soon and have aspirations to consolidate and trade for another expensive 3rd star.

He seems like the odd man out and is a good, but not great player, even in the context of his specific role. I’d bet he could be had on the semi-cheap, maybe as part of a 3 team deal where we kick a pick, a prospect, Prince and Temple in to add value to their package.

Are you guys really sold on Gary Harris?

Hes on a pretty big contract and hes been a terrible 3 point shooter the last few years.

I think there are much cheaper options through the draft and FA.

No way. He’s a negative asset. He’s owed $40 million over the next two years. Denver would have to throw in a pick to dump him.

Trading Prince is also not happening. We already established 3nD wings are impossible to find. Prince wasn’t even that bad and is our best hope of becoming a 3nD wing. KD is not playing 82 games 40 minutes per night. We need as much depth at the 3/4 as possible.

[vincecarter4pres]

The analysis I provided was from The Athletic. Not everything pro-LeVert is some sort of homer conspiracy. Other NBA players, coaches, GMs, scouts, analysts, have all agreed that Caris LeVert has 3rd star potential. This is not debatable. Specifically, LeVert’s size, handles, long strides, and ability to break down defenders and make plays for teammates is exactly what you want from your 3rd option.

26 year old just entering his prime on a team friendly 3 year contract is an asset. When the contract was signed Zach Lowe and 538 wrote articles about Brooklyn’s depth and how we have all these assets. All this talk about trading him is because he’s....An Asset

Are you seriously arguing LeVert’s efficiency wont improve with KD and Kyrie on the court? With Chiozza and Garrett Temple, he was getting whatever he wanted. With KD and Kyrie drawing most of the defensive attention, any player in that 3rd option role will get easier baskets and increase their efficiency.

The only thing we know for sure is small backcourts like Kyrie/Beal are usually defensive disasters and never win, and paying max money to undersized guards who are over 30 like Jrue pretty much always results in buyers remorse midway through the contract.

Caris LeVert will be a Brooklyn Net for a very long time.

You're citing all this "analysis" from the Athletic, Zach Lowe, and 538, yet at the same time, you completely refuse to support the idea of having Jrue here, who is an analytical darling for those same analysts. Both you and Hello Brooklyn constantly do this, and ironically also agree on the same points. I don't even necessarily disagree on you with some of the things regarding Levert, but its just baffling to constantly see you guys do this

"The only thing we know for sure is small backcourts like Kyrie/Beal are usually defensive disasters and never win"- Dude, an ultra small backcourt of Kyle Lowry & Fred VanVleet just won the NBA championship last year, what are you talking about? Those guys are actually close to 5'11", like you keep claiming

No one is saying Jrue isn’t great. He’s just not worth $30-$40 million per year for the next 4 years. Considering his age, size, and below average shooting, he’s not worth that much, but that’s how much he will get when some dumb team gets desperate. Tobias Harris, Al Horford, Mike Conley, Andre Drummond, all great players. Do you want to spend $35 million a year on them? I don’t.

Trading for him also doesn’t guarantee that he will re-sign here. I’m not trading LeVert who makes $18 million and has 3 years left for a guy who is about to become a UFA.

6’6 215lb versatile wing defender Danny Green started at SG for the Raps. 80 games in the regular season, and every game in the playoffs.

I'd wonder if Jrue would agree to a Extend and Trade type of deal. He picks up his option and we extend him out another 2 years, the 4th year being either partially guaranteed or a player option?

He's on the books for $26.2 next year and has an option year for $27.1. So he picks up the option year and we extend him out for say around $29.2 and $31.5 if he picks up the option. That's really not bad at all for a player of his ilk, assuming he'd do something like that.

Or even he picks up his option, extended out the next year for $29.2, the 4th year is $31.5, guaranteed for only $10 mill?

You're basically getting him for $28.5 mill a season for 4 seasons if he picks up his option, or $27.5 for 3. This is a top 40, 2 way player with at least 2 years of legit prime left and 2 seasons, which even if declining, is not fall off a cliff stuff, so still really good.

[vincecarter4pres]

Idk, a team like Denver just can’t pay all these guys, hell a team like the Nets can’t for sustained years either.

They have 2 max contracts, a few reasonable ones like Harris’ and Barton’s and hope to retain Grant, Morris and Craig soon and have aspirations to consolidate and trade for another expensive 3rd star.

He seems like the odd man out and is a good, but not great player, even in the context of his specific role. I’d bet he could be had on the semi-cheap, maybe as part of a 3 team deal where we kick a pick, a prospect, Prince and Temple in to add value to their package.

Are you guys really sold on Gary Harris?

Hes on a pretty big contract and hes been a terrible 3 point shooter the last few years.

I think there are much cheaper options through the draft and FA.

No way. He’s a negative asset. He’s owed $40 million over the next two years. Denver would have to throw in a pick to dump him.

Trading Prince is also not happening. We already established 3nD wings are impossible to find. Prince wasn’t even that bad and is our best hope of becoming a 3nD wing. KD is not playing 82 games 40 minutes per night. We need as much depth at the 3/4 as possible.

Prince was a bucket of garbage last year. Harris is a 3&D wing, Prince is just 3, no D and has slipped everywhere else and is low BBIQ as they come.

He was traded for to dump salary and extended so once over the cap we have salary filler to match in perspective trades, while Marks held out hope he'd be what he could.

Prince is a negative asset as well, owed $24 over 2. Temple and Musa are expiring trash that add up to Harris' salary the following year.

A deal such as Prince/Musa/Temple is salary neutral for a year and only $8 mill extra the year after. I'd give up a pick or a "prospect" like Rodi, or even Claxton to make that swap every time.

If you're hoping for Prince to be your KD rest game fill-in, you are in a for a world of coagulated fried dumpster juice on a stick hurt. Prince will be lucky if he can be an 18mpg, minute eater in a fully stacked lineup next year.

Gary Harris is a good young player who can play high level D 1-3 and even some 4, shoots well, is athletic and great on the break and doesn't need usage, but coming off one, injury plagued bad year.

Prince is a mediocre young player with bad BBIQ, who has always been a mediocre at best defender, coming off a horrible regression year, where he basically proved he cannot be relied upon at all if over-extended in his role in the absolute slightest and it may even be the case of a guy who can't do well in a situation where winning is expected.

Harris is coming from years of winning and expectations at this point.

Harris is a 6'4 with length and better athleticism, young Danny Green.

Prince is a shooter with no handle, bad decision making, average athleticism and little actual basketball skills who looks Chuck Noland lost on defense.

[MrDollarBills]

20/7 all-nba defender who will likely make it for the 3rd time this year.



Caris levert is not young. he is 26 and will be in his 5th year after coming out as a senior and off his rookie deal. no GM considers him a young asset.



He did not have a strong year. 18 points on awful efficiency, below average shooting, and low assist rate for his volume with below average to awful defense and the team was better when he sat vs played.



This is completely riddiculous. good players create easy shots for themselves. saying you miss alot because you take tough shots just means you arent good enough to get better shots or have awful shot selection. and its not like he is just inefficient, among players who take 10+ shots he is among the worst efficiency in the enitre league and thats 2 years running



Levert not being able to stay healthy is part of the criticism. its not good to always be hurt.



in every scenario he has awful efficiency. starter vs bench. and all of his 5-man lineups. he has plenty of shooters around him.



no you are the homer that twists yourself in a pretzel to try and make someone good and uses enormously small samples of good ignoring enormous samples of bad.

as far as context, again when someone is poor in every split imaginable he probably isnt super efficient or a good scorer. thats what we have issue with. ignoring 200+ games of data to focos on a 12 game sample. If anyone is ignoring context its you. if anyone is using anecdotal stuff its you. if anyone has recency bias its you.

The analysis I provided was from The Athletic. Not everything pro-LeVert is some sort of homer conspiracy. Other NBA players, coaches, GMs, scouts, analysts, have all agreed that Caris LeVert has 3rd star potential. This is not debatable. Specifically, LeVert’s size, handles, long strides, and ability to break down defenders and make plays for teammates is exactly what you want from your 3rd option.

26 year old just entering his prime on a team friendly 3 year contract is an asset. When the contract was signed Zach Lowe and 538 wrote articles about Brooklyn’s depth and how we have all these assets. All this talk about trading him is because he’s....An Asset

Are you seriously arguing LeVert’s efficiency wont improve with KD and Kyrie on the court? With Chiozza and Garrett Temple, he was getting whatever he wanted. With KD and Kyrie drawing most of the defensive attention, any player in that 3rd option role will get easier baskets and increase their efficiency.

The only thing we know for sure is small backcourts like Kyrie/Beal are usually defensive disasters and never win, and paying max money to undersized guards who are over 30 like Jrue pretty much always results in buyers remorse midway through the contract.

Caris LeVert will be a Brooklyn Net for a very long time.

You're citing all this "analysis" from the Athletic, Zach Lowe, and 538, yet at the same time, you completely refuse to support the idea of having Jrue here, who is an analytical darling for those same analysts. Both you and Hello Brooklyn constantly do this, and ironically also agree on the same points. I don't even necessarily disagree on you with some of the things regarding Levert, but its just baffling to constantly see you guys do this

"The only thing we know for sure is small backcourts like Kyrie/Beal are usually defensive disasters and never win"- Dude, an ultra small backcourt of Kyle Lowry & Fred VanVleet just won the NBA championship last year, what are you talking about? Those guys are actually close to 5'11", like you keep claiming

RE: The Raptors backcourt, let's not forget that FVV is an excellent defender even at 6'1.

[MrDollarBills]

Are you guys really sold on Gary Harris?

Hes on a pretty big contract and hes been a terrible 3 point shooter the last few years.

I think there are much cheaper options through the draft and FA.

No way. He’s a negative asset. He’s owed $40 million over the next two years. Denver would have to throw in a pick to dump him.

Trading Prince is also not happening. We already established 3nD wings are impossible to find. Prince wasn’t even that bad and is our best hope of becoming a 3nD wing. KD is not playing 82 games 40 minutes per night. We need as much depth at the 3/4 as possible.

Prince was a bucket of garbage last year. Harris is a 3&D wing, Prince is just 3, no D and has slipped everywhere else and is low BBIQ as they come.

He was traded for to dump salary and extended so once over the cap we have salary filler to match in perspective trades, while Marks held out hope he'd be what he could.

Prince is a negative asset as well, owed $24 over 2. Temple and Musa are expiring trash that add up to Harris' salary the following year.

A deal such as Prince/Musa/Temple is salary neutral for a year and only $8 mill extra the year after. I'd give up a pick or a "prospect" like Rodi, or even Claxton to make that swap every time.

If you're hoping for Prince to be your KD rest game fill-in, you are in a for a world of coagulated fried dumpster juice on a stick hurt. Prince will be lucky if he can be an 18mpg, minute eater in a fully stacked lineup next year.

Gary Harris is a good young player who can play high level D 1-3 and even some 4, shoots well, is athletic and great on the break and doesn't need usage, but coming off one, injury plagued bad year.

Prince is a mediocre young player with bad BBIQ, who has always been a mediocre at best defender, coming off a horrible regression year, where he basically proved he cannot be relied upon at all if over-extended in his role in the absolute slightest and it may even be of a case of a guy who can't do well in a situation where winning is expected.

Harris is coming from years of winning and expectations at this point.

Harris is 6'4 with length and better athleticism, young Danny Green.

Prince is a shooter with no handle, bad decision making, average athleticism and little actual basketball skills who looks Chuck Noland lost on defense.

I still say that Prince will be a lot better in a full line up next season where his role will be simplified.

[vincecarter4pres]

No way. He’s a negative asset. He’s owed $40 million over the next two years. Denver would have to throw in a pick to dump him.

Trading Prince is also not happening. We already established 3nD wings are impossible to find. Prince wasn’t even that bad and is our best hope of becoming a 3nD wing. KD is not playing 82 games 40 minutes per night. We need as much depth at the 3/4 as possible.

Prince was a bucket of garbage last year. Harris is a 3&D wing, Prince is just 3, no D and has slipped everywhere else and is low BBIQ as they come.

He was traded for to dump salary and extended so once over the cap we have salary filler to match in perspective trades, while Marks held out hope he'd be what he could.

Prince is a negative asset as well, owed $24 over 2. Temple and Musa are expiring trash that add up to Harris' salary the following year.

A deal such as Prince/Musa/Temple is salary neutral for a year and only $8 mill extra the year after. I'd give up a pick or a "prospect" like Rodi, or even Claxton to make that swap every time.

If you're hoping for Prince to be your KD rest game fill-in, you are in a for a world of coagulated fried dumpster juice on a stick hurt. Prince will be lucky if he can be an 18mpg, minute eater in a fully stacked lineup next year.

Gary Harris is a good young player who can play high level D 1-3 and even some 4, shoots well, is athletic and great on the break and doesn't need usage, but coming off one, injury plagued bad year.

Prince is a mediocre young player with bad BBIQ, who has always been a mediocre at best defender, coming off a horrible regression year, where he basically proved he cannot be relied upon at all if over-extended in his role in the absolute slightest and it may even be of a case of a guy who can't do well in a situation where winning is expected.

Harris is coming from years of winning and expectations at this point.

Harris is 6'4 with length and better athleticism, young Danny Green.

Prince is a shooter with no handle, bad decision making, average athleticism and little actual basketball skills who looks Chuck Noland lost on defense.

I still say that Prince will be a lot better in a full line up next season where his role will be simplified.

I mean I would hope so, you'd have to blast through the basement with dynamite to fall any further.

I know I'm getting a little over the top myself with these last couple posts, but Prince was literally one of the worst players in the league who played the minutes he did.

Even in Atlanta he wasn't much more than a poor man's SF/PF tweener version of Anthony Morrow.

[ProspectPark]

Are you guys really sold on Gary Harris?

Hes on a pretty big contract and hes been a terrible 3 point shooter the last few years.

I think there are much cheaper options through the draft and FA.

No way. He’s a negative asset. He’s owed $40 million over the next two years. Denver would have to throw in a pick to dump him.

Trading Prince is also not happening. We already established 3nD wings are impossible to find. Prince wasn’t even that bad and is our best hope of becoming a 3nD wing. KD is not playing 82 games 40 minutes per night. We need as much depth at the 3/4 as possible.

Prince was a bucket of garbage last year. Harris is a 3&D wing, Prince is just 3, no D and has slipped everywhere else and is low BBIQ as they come.

He was traded for to dump salary and extended so once over the cap we have salary filler to match in perspective trades, while Marks held out hope he'd be what he could.

Prince is a negative asset as well, owed $24 over 2. Temple and Musa are expiring trash that add up to Harris' salary the following year.

A deal such as Prince/Musa/Temple is salary neutral for a year and only $8 mill extra the year after. I'd give up a pick or a "prospect" like Rodi, or even Claxton to make that swap every time.

If you're hoping for Prince to be your KD rest game fill-in, you are in a for a world of coagulated fried dumpster juice on a stick hurt. Prince will be lucky if he can be an 18mpg, minute eater in a fully stacked lineup next year.

Gary Harris is a good young player who can play high level D 1-3 and even some 4, shoots well, is athletic and great on the break and doesn't need usage, but coming off one, injury plagued bad year.

Prince is a mediocre young player with bad BBIQ, who has always been a mediocre at best defender, coming off a horrible regression year, where he basically proved he cannot be relied upon at all if over-extended in his role in the absolute slightest and it may even be the case of a guy who can't do well in a situation where winning is expected.

Harris is coming from years of winning and expectations at this point.

Harris is a 6'4 with length and better athleticism, young Danny Green.

Prince is a shooter with no handle, bad decision making, average athleticism and little actual basketball skills who looks Chuck Noland lost on defense.

Even after all that he had the highest net rating on the team, higher than Allen, Dinwiddie, LeVert, Harris, and Kyrie, the 3rd best on/off numbers, and was playing out of position. Played the 3rd most minutes.

https://go.nba.com/mwbo4

The numbers don’t lie brother. Do you think maybe it’s someone else’s IQ you should be worried about?

[DarkXaero]

The analysis I provided was from The Athletic. Not everything pro-LeVert is some sort of homer conspiracy. Other NBA players, coaches, GMs, scouts, analysts, have all agreed that Caris LeVert has 3rd star potential. This is not debatable. Specifically, LeVert’s size, handles, long strides, and ability to break down defenders and make plays for teammates is exactly what you want from your 3rd option.

26 year old just entering his prime on a team friendly 3 year contract is an asset. When the contract was signed Zach Lowe and 538 wrote articles about Brooklyn’s depth and how we have all these assets. All this talk about trading him is because he’s....An Asset

Are you seriously arguing LeVert’s efficiency wont improve with KD and Kyrie on the court? With Chiozza and Garrett Temple, he was getting whatever he wanted. With KD and Kyrie drawing most of the defensive attention, any player in that 3rd option role will get easier baskets and increase their efficiency.

The only thing we know for sure is small backcourts like Kyrie/Beal are usually defensive disasters and never win, and paying max money to undersized guards who are over 30 like Jrue pretty much always results in buyers remorse midway through the contract.

Caris LeVert will be a Brooklyn Net for a very long time.

You're citing all this "analysis" from the Athletic, Zach Lowe, and 538, yet at the same time, you completely refuse to support the idea of having Jrue here, who is an analytical darling for those same analysts. Both you and Hello Brooklyn constantly do this, and ironically also agree on the same points. I don't even necessarily disagree on you with some of the things regarding Levert, but its just baffling to constantly see you guys do this

"The only thing we know for sure is small backcourts like Kyrie/Beal are usually defensive disasters and never win"- Dude, an ultra small backcourt of Kyle Lowry & Fred VanVleet just won the NBA championship last year, what are you talking about? Those guys are actually close to 5'11", like you keep claiming

RE: The Raptors backcourt, let's not forget that FVV is an excellent defender even at 6'1.

I know, but a really small two PG-backcourt has worked for Raps, and resulted in a championship, and an excellent reg season this year. Jrue is 6'4" and a better defender than either Lowry or FVV. Beal is also between 6'4" and 6'5", and the guy keeps arguing about small backcourts being disasters.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Are you guys really sold on Gary Harris?

Hes on a pretty big contract and hes been a terrible 3 point shooter the last few years.

I think there are much cheaper options through the draft and FA.

No way. He’s a negative asset. He’s owed $40 million over the next two years. Denver would have to throw in a pick to dump him.

Trading Prince is also not happening. We already established 3nD wings are impossible to find. Prince wasn’t even that bad and is our best hope of becoming a 3nD wing. KD is not playing 82 games 40 minutes per night. We need as much depth at the 3/4 as possible.

Prince was a bucket of garbage last year. Harris is a 3&D wing, Prince is just 3, no D and has slipped everywhere else and is low BBIQ as they come.

He was traded for to dump salary and extended so once over the cap we have salary filler to match in perspective trades, while Marks held out hope he'd be what he could.

Prince is a negative asset as well, owed $24 over 2. Temple and Musa are expiring trash that add up to Harris' salary the following year.

A deal such as Prince/Musa/Temple is salary neutral for a year and only $8 mill extra the year after. I'd give up a pick or a "prospect" like Rodi, or even Claxton to make that swap every time.

If you're hoping for Prince to be your KD rest game fill-in, you are in a for a world of coagulated fried dumpster juice on a stick hurt. Prince will be lucky if he can be an 18mpg, minute eater in a fully stacked lineup next year.

Gary Harris is a good young player who can play high level D 1-3 and even some 4, shoots well, is athletic and great on the break and doesn't need usage, but coming off one, injury plagued bad year.

Prince is a mediocre young player with bad BBIQ, who has always been a mediocre at best defender, coming off a horrible regression year, where he basically proved he cannot be relied upon at all if over-extended in his role in the absolute slightest and it may even be the case of a guy who can't do well in a situation where winning is expected.

Harris is coming from years of winning and expectations at this point.

Harris is a 6'4 with length and better athleticism, young Danny Green.

Prince is a shooter with no handle, bad decision making, average athleticism and little actual basketball skills who looks Chuck Noland lost on defense.

I get your point on Prince, but he was in a terrible situation with Atlanta his whole career. And last year was a mess with all the injuries. He has never had a defined role or real system.

It would not be out of the real of possibility that he improves is defense with the right system. But at least hes a goodish shooter.

You are also severely overrating Gary Harris.

If Prince is not a D, then Harris is certainly not a 3 anymore. And its not like he was some shut down defender either. He was up and down. He has been a dreadful shooter this year, last year and in his 2 games in the playoffs.

We can't just assume he goes back to being a good shooter. His shot has fallen off a cliff and is showing no signs of life.

You are also underestimating how bad that contract is. I didn't even realize how bad it actually was.

Its insane to be paying 20 mill+ for a a role player. If paying him that much, he should be a borderline all star.

Not only has he not been that, he hasn't even been a good role player. Hes been absolutely terrible. One of the worst contracts in the league.

Taking on that contract is going to hamper what we can do.

We can get Gary Harris's production last year easily through the draft or from a MLE or minimum contract.

Trading for him would be an awful move the more I think about it.