2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th!

[Pax for Prez]

According to this interesting BR "Bust Players" Article, the Bulls should not draft Toppin (too old) and Avdija (master of no bankable skill)

Looks like the Top 4 players for the Bulls should be Edwards, Ball, Hayes & probably Wiseman.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2907034-how-to-spot-an-nba-draft-bust

[wonderboy2]

Waste of pick if the bulls draft Hayes. Deni would be ok.

Not sure why you'd think so. Prospect with upside with a high ceiling that also fits a position of need. Seems like the perfect fit for the 4th pick.

He really doesn’t have that high of an upside. Have a feeling that he will be easily guarded at the next level. He has no burst, first step is mediocre. Inconsistent outside shot. He’s a decent playmaker but very turnover prone. I think he’s a few years away from being a solid contributor. Don’t think he will be an elite pg in the NBA. Probably more of a fringe starter high quality back up pg. Best case scenario for him would be a Ricky Rubio level guard. The best point guards in the league are bucket getters that can make the right leads. Don’t think Hayes will ever be a bucket getter at the next level. He’s a poor mans Dlo.

[HoopsterJones]

Apparently the Wolves might be shopping the #1 pick. This draft is a bit of a crapshoot. I’m not sure it’s worth it or not, but I’d rather draft Edwards over anybody else.

[Pax for Prez]

Apparently the Wolves might be shopping the #1 pick. This draft is a bit of a crapshoot. I’m not sure it’s worth it or not, but I’d rather draft Edwards over anybody else.

Unfortunately like you said this draft is a "crapshoot". The asset that would have to be given up to get the #1 overall pick might be worth more than the # 1 overall pick this year.

[MGB8]

Vassell seems low ceiling as hell. Seems like he'll top out as a 4th/5th scoring option. And he can't pass/handle at all either.

I don't know where you are getting that he can't handle or pass.

Take a look at the following, and places such as 0:17, 0:42, 1:24, 2:18, 3:36, 3:54, 5:08, 5:58 (cdown court pass off steal) etc.

Watch on YouTube

Not that he's some sort of elite ball handler or passer at this point - he's not - but to say that he "can't pass or handle at all" is such a ridiculous exaggeration. He has a solid handle, a little too high, but no reason to think it can't continue to improve. Less than one turnover per game (1.1 per 40) ... He shows vision at times as well despite only averaging 1.6 assists per game (2.3 per 40) - and he had the 2nd highest amount of assists on the team so there may be scheme issues on those numbers.

Bottom line on Vassell is that his floor is very high - something like Shane Battier high given the basketball IQ he shows - and while he doesn't have ultra-megastar athleticism like a Lebron James, he's no less athletic than a Jayson Tatum.

Tatum, in fact, may be a very good comp. Now, Taytum came out as a freshman with higher volume scoring (though only 3 points more per 40 minutes), higher rebounding (1.8 more per 40 minutes), but similar assist / block /steal numbers, nearly triple the TOs per 40 (3.1 vs. 1.1) and lesser shooting percentages, particularly from 3 (reflected in a .585 TS and 23.8 per for Vassell vs. .566 TS and 22.0 per for Taytum) - and Tatum was 19 when drafted as opposed to Vassell who will be 20... but they are not that different in terms of prospect levels. Taytum was better because younger and more proven ability re volume... but otherwise remarkably similar, with some advantages to Vassell.

I would not be disappointed if the Bulls drafted him. Would have been nicer at 7 or 8 "value wise" - but it's not like anyone is a sure thing in this draft.

[TheSuzerain]

lol are you serious with some of those timestamps on that video? I didn't mean he literally can't dribble the ball two times in a row.

This reminds me of when there was that video of Bamba dribbling in an empty gym. And suddenly we had posters talking about Bamba's impressive handle. Good times.

[BullsFTW]

According to this interesting BR "Bust Players" Article, the Bulls should not draft Toppin (too old) and Avdija (master of no bankable skill)

Looks like the Top 4 players for the Bulls should be Edwards, Ball, Hayes & probably Wiseman.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2907034-how-to-spot-an-nba-draft-bust

Interesting article

[MrSparkle]

According to this interesting BR "Bust Players" Article, the Bulls should not draft Toppin (too old) and Avdija (master of no bankable skill)

Looks like the Top 4 players for the Bulls should be Edwards, Ball, Hayes & probably Wiseman.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2907034-how-to-spot-an-nba-draft-bust

Interesting article

Yeah, although I don't know about lumping Deni and Okoro with the busts they mentioned. These guys have many more proven skills than Bender, MKG, Hezonja, Bennett and in general a seemingly much better BBIQ and awareness. The busts were drafted almost entirely on raw potential and athleticism/size, which has traditionally been a common mistake in the top-5 (Tyrus, Swift, Darko, Thabeet, etc.). I can see Patrick Williams and Hampton in that category, although they'd be very reasonable gambles in the 10-20 range. I think those super-projects can pan out very well as mid-1st picks; you just need to look at them as 3-5 year plans. But realistically, they're either out the league or decent reserves: Derrick Jones Jr, Harkless, James Johnson, etc. I'd say elite handles, good awareness and a proper shooting form should be encouraging to build an athletic player. If the handle's broken and there's bad off-ball awareness, then I don't even see the point.

[MGB8]

lol are you serious with some of those timestamps on that video? I didn't mean he literally can't dribble the ball two times in a row.

This reminds me of when there was that video of Bamba dribbling in an empty gym. And suddenly we had posters talking about Bamba's impressive handle. Good times.

Lots of hyperbole, no actual substance.

The time stamps show that he can handle in traffic, can easily dribble between his legs and get where he needs to get with the ball, and that the dribble is neither particularly loose or particularly high. They also show some nice vision / passes.

Now, they don't show a dominant ball handler (probably made a touch tougher by him being a bit of a long strider) or passer, but they show a nice skillset and the video as a whole reflects his strengths, as well - very high bball IQ on both ends, a very good shot, good (though not elite) athleticism - both vertically and laterally, very good length, good hands on both ends...

As a prospect, he looks than Mikal Bridges did as a Sophomore (and more advanced all around skills, to include handles, than you saw from Bridges even as a junior). He's likely a comparable prospect to DeAndre Hunter - while he's not quite as strong and, maybe relatedly, not as many FTA, he's a better shooter, younger coming out, and longer, but Hunter had that great NCAA championship game capping a solid run in the tourney - which cemented his status.

His upside is Jayson Taytum-ish - there are a lot of similarities, and while there's no guarantee he gets there, in this draft full of question marks... Anyway, your "low ceiling" analysis is off-base.

[MrFortune3]

Apparently the Wolves might be shopping the #1 pick. This draft is a bit of a crapshoot. I’m not sure it’s worth it or not, but I’d rather draft Edwards over anybody else.

Wolves can't afford another losing season and trying to mesh a young player with KAT and Russell. They need a vet player who will command the team and force respect.
What losing Jimmy exposed is that their culture was rotten and their stars were soft.

[Leslie Forman]

Bottom line on Vassell is that his floor is very high - something like Shane Battier high given the basketball IQ he shows - and while he doesn't have ultra-megastar athleticism like a Lebron James, he's no less athletic than a Jayson Tatum.

Tatum, in fact, may be a very good comp. Now, Taytum came out as a freshman with higher volume scoring (though only 3 points more per 40 minutes), higher rebounding (1.8 more per 40 minutes), but similar assist / block /steal numbers, nearly triple the TOs per 40 (3.1 vs. 1.1) and lesser shooting percentages, particularly from 3 (reflected in a .585 TS and 23.8 per for Vassell vs. .566 TS and 22.0 per for Taytum) - and Tatum was 19 when drafted as opposed to Vassell who will be 20... but they are not that different in terms of prospect levels. Taytum was better because younger and more proven ability re volume... but otherwise remarkably similar, with some advantages to Vassell.

I saw nothing even remotely, let alone remarkably, similar to this kind of skill in that video.

Watch on YouTube

Now I'm all for drafting raw talents who have unspectacular stats but show great flashes on tape, but Vassell's tape doesn't exactly scream high ceiling. Of course he can pull a Jimmy Butler and just wildly exceed expectations but that's utterly unpredictable and not something one should ever bank on.

He looks sort of like the Wendell Carter of wings. Which is not actually a bad thing at all. He'll probably have a long career. But I'd be looking for something more high ceiling.

[PaKii94]

Bottom line on Vassell is that his floor is very high - something like Shane Battier high given the basketball IQ he shows - and while he doesn't have ultra-megastar athleticism like a Lebron James, he's no less athletic than a Jayson Tatum.

Tatum, in fact, may be a very good comp. Now, Taytum came out as a freshman with higher volume scoring (though only 3 points more per 40 minutes), higher rebounding (1.8 more per 40 minutes), but similar assist / block /steal numbers, nearly triple the TOs per 40 (3.1 vs. 1.1) and lesser shooting percentages, particularly from 3 (reflected in a .585 TS and 23.8 per for Vassell vs. .566 TS and 22.0 per for Taytum) - and Tatum was 19 when drafted as opposed to Vassell who will be 20... but they are not that different in terms of prospect levels. Taytum was better because younger and more proven ability re volume... but otherwise remarkably similar, with some advantages to Vassell.

I saw nothing even remotely, let alone remarkably, similar to this kind of skill in that video.

Watch on YouTube

Now I'm all for drafting raw talents who have unspectacular stats but show great flashes on tape, but Vassell's tape doesn't exactly scream high ceiling. Of course he can pull a Jimmy Butler and just wildly exceed expectations but that's utterly unpredictable and not something one should ever bank on.

He looks sort of like the Wendell Carter of wings. Which is not actually a bad thing at all. He'll probably have a long career. But I'd be looking for something more high ceiling.

We'll take WCJ as a jack of all trades baseline and convert it to a SF body. Now add:

-positive positional size (wcj was undersized/negative ps). Vassell is long and has a good frame that you can put muscle on

-game warping defense (vassell IS that good of a defender)

-more proven/reliable 3 point shot ( I believe vassell's shot will translate

All that together is a damn good player and that's the minimum for him. Any offensive improvement is chery on top. He doesn't need to be tatum to be more impactful than him.

Again I want to emphasize the defense. Usually defenders are lowered cause they are specialists that can't shoot. Vassell can do both already

[MrSparkle]

Bottom line on Vassell is that his floor is very high - something like Shane Battier high given the basketball IQ he shows - and while he doesn't have ultra-megastar athleticism like a Lebron James, he's no less athletic than a Jayson Tatum.

Tatum, in fact, may be a very good comp. Now, Taytum came out as a freshman with higher volume scoring (though only 3 points more per 40 minutes), higher rebounding (1.8 more per 40 minutes), but similar assist / block /steal numbers, nearly triple the TOs per 40 (3.1 vs. 1.1) and lesser shooting percentages, particularly from 3 (reflected in a .585 TS and 23.8 per for Vassell vs. .566 TS and 22.0 per for Taytum) - and Tatum was 19 when drafted as opposed to Vassell who will be 20... but they are not that different in terms of prospect levels. Taytum was better because younger and more proven ability re volume... but otherwise remarkably similar, with some advantages to Vassell.

I saw nothing even remotely, let alone remarkably, similar to this kind of skill in that video.

Watch on YouTube

Now I'm all for drafting raw talents who have unspectacular stats but show great flashes on tape, but Vassell's tape doesn't exactly scream high ceiling. Of course he can pull a Jimmy Butler and just wildly exceed expectations but that's utterly unpredictable and not something one should ever bank on.

He looks sort of like the Wendell Carter of wings. Which is not actually a bad thing at all. He'll probably have a long career. But I'd be looking for something more high ceiling.

We'll take WCJ as a jack of all trades baseline and convert it to a SF body. Now add:

-positive positional size (wcj was undersized/negative ps). Vassell is long and has a good frame that you can put muscle on

-game warping defense (vassell IS that good of a defender)

-more proven/reliable 3 point shot ( I believe vassell's shot will translate

All that together is a damn good player and that's the minimum for him. Any offensive improvement is chery on top. He doesn't need to be tatum to be more impactful than him.

Again I want to emphasize the defense. Usually defenders are lowered cause they are specialists that can't shoot. Vassell can do both already

Shouldn't Mikal be the Vassell comparison?

[Jeffster81]

Apparently the Wolves might be shopping the #1 pick. This draft is a bit of a crapshoot. I’m not sure it’s worth it or not, but I’d rather draft Edwards over anybody else.

Minnesota is not going to like what would be offer for the #1 pick, so it's probably in their best interests to keep the pick. I think most of us agree, getting the #1 pick in this draft does not feel like a "win".

[MrFortune3]

Apparently the Wolves might be shopping the #1 pick. This draft is a bit of a crapshoot. I’m not sure it’s worth it or not, but I’d rather draft Edwards over anybody else.

Minnesota is not going to like what would be offer for the #1 pick, so it's probably in their best interests to keep the pick. I think most of us agree, getting the #1 pick in this draft does not feel like a "win".

It's not so much that. KAT is your franchise player no matter who you take #1. That guy might surpass Russell as the #1A but it's still KAT team.

They want to build around KAT. If you take Edwards or Ball, you end up with a potentially 3 guard starting lineup in
C- KAT
F - Culver
G - Russell
G - Beasley
G - Edwards/Ball

That's going to be tough to pull off with the tallest none KAT guy being 6-6 in Culver. They could start Hernangomeza at the 4 and then Russell and the top pick as the starters at guard positions and Culver as the SF.
That's still a lot of potential issues with fit, balance and size. It works for the Rockets, but they have 2 surefire stars in Harden and Westbrook.

[Jeffster81]

Apparently the Wolves might be shopping the #1 pick. This draft is a bit of a crapshoot. I’m not sure it’s worth it or not, but I’d rather draft Edwards over anybody else.

Minnesota is not going to like what would be offer for the #1 pick, so it's probably in their best interests to keep the pick. I think most of us agree, getting the #1 pick in this draft does not feel like a "win".

It's not so much that. KAT is your franchise player no matter who you take #1. That guy might surpass Russell as the #1A but it's still KAT team.

I get what you are saying and I don't disagree but given how umimpressive this draft is, the value of the #1 pick is not going to be high.

[kodo]

According to this interesting BR "Bust Players" Article, the Bulls should not draft Toppin (too old) and Avdija (master of no bankable skill)

Looks like the Top 4 players for the Bulls should be Edwards, Ball, Hayes & probably Wiseman.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2907034-how-to-spot-an-nba-draft-bust

The author left out a lot of glaring contradictions to his rules.

22 year olds: Malcolm Brogdon
Late Risers: Donovan Mitchell
Low Assist Wings (< 15%): Brandon Ingram, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown (right at 15%)
Low Block Bigs (< 6%): Bam Adebayo
No Bankable Skill: this isn't even data driven, just opinion

If you have a rigid set of deal breakers, you would miss a lot of good players.

[Leslie Forman]

I'm starting to wonder if trading up for Edwards might actually be a steal. The guy easily has the best tools of anyone in the draft. His tape is head and shoulders above everyone else's. He's really just not being considered much of a #1 prospect because his stats were not very good.

But if you think you can develop those tools of his and that being on an NBA team instead of some awful college team can maximize that talent…you might be committing robbery if all you're giving up is some low ceiling picks/players in return.

[cjbulls]

I'm starting to wonder if trading up for Edwards might actually be a steal. The guy easily has the best tools of anyone in the draft. His tape is head and shoulders above everyone else's. He's really just not being considered much of a #1 prospect because his stats were not very good.

But if you think you can develop those tools of his and that being on an NBA team instead of some awful college team can maximize that talent…you might be committing robbery if all you're giving up is some low ceiling picks/players in return.

Not against the move, but you probably need to move Zach or Coby (likely Zach). Prepared to take less than his fair value?

You are unlikely to get a strong offer. I think you make value on taking Edwards but lose some of it on moving Zach. Not a horrible deal for a team that wants stars but something to consider nevertheless.

[Jcool0]

I'm starting to wonder if trading up for Edwards might actually be a steal. The guy easily has the best tools of anyone in the draft. His tape is head and shoulders above everyone else's. He's really just not being considered much of a #1 prospect because his stats were not very good.

But if you think you can develop those tools of his and that being on an NBA team instead of some awful college team can maximize that talent…you might be committing robbery if all you're giving up is some low ceiling picks/players in return.

Not against the move, but you probably need to move Zach or Coby (likely Zach). Prepared to take less than his fair value?

You are unlikely to get a strong offer. I think you make value on taking Edwards but lose some of it on moving Zach. Not a horrible deal for a team that wants stars but something to consider nevertheless.

You don't need to move a player to move up to #1. You just have to give up next years first round pick.