Yost's coaching mentality as a former third stringer

Post #1 » by **paulpressey25** » Tue Sep 4, 2007 12:24 pm

I don't follow baseball like you guys do, but are there any statistics available on how many different lineups that each team has used this year versus how many the Brewers have used? On how many pitching appearances by different pitchers? Yesterday's situation with Aquino just seemed so damned forced. Like it was Ned trying to make sure every kid on the playground got his turn. And it's been that way all year.

My formative MLB watching was done years ago as a kid with Harvey Kuehn where he'd put his best 9 guys out there every game. As for pitching, let the guy go until he started getting shelled.

Does the fact Yost was a career third stringer in the MLB mean that at times he overcompensates to get everyone involved, wishing that was done for him when he was a player?

Post #2 » by **Jollay** » Tue Sep 4, 2007 2:40 pm

It is a strength of his but also a damning weakness.

You want to get your whole team involved and the more you do, the better it is and becomes. And in baseball people have to have regular work to at all be effective. Gabe Gross seems to be a good example of that. And in fairness, we do have a number of guys who are not quite everyday caliber regulars manning some positions, so some platooning is definitely warranted.

That's why when people were criticizing Yost in May/June for resting some guy, and not using Cordero for eighth inning saves (he pitched how many straight games in May at one point, anyway???), the criticism wasn't all that warranted.

Now it's warranted. In a pennant chase in September you don't do what Yost is doing.

What about Matt Wise, anyway? Even if he's still sad for that beanball, the guy still has an era under four, which makes him one of 3-4 whole pitchers who can say that on the roster.

If Yost wanted to play everybody, how bout giving this guy more than one appearance in 16 games like he did last month?

God, I hate Yost.

livestrong4ever · Post #3 » by **livestrong4ever** » Tue Sep 4, 2007 9:05 pm

Yost lineup changes are right in the middle of the pack believe it or not.

trwi7 · Post #4 » by **trwi7** » Tue Sep 4, 2007 9:17 pm

The problem I've had with Yost's lineup changes is that they're so drastic. I can understand giving one player a day off every now and then which is fine but too many times I've seen lineups of bench players for a game.

Like this one against Kansas City.

Hart
Counsell
Braun
Hall
Mench
Graffanino
Miller
Weeks
Gallardo

That has Hardy and Fielder out of the lineup so not only is the offense going to be horrible you're putting extra pressure on the pitcher because he knows that the offense isn't going to score a lot of runs.

Ruben Douglas · Post #5 » by **Ruben Douglas** » Wed Sep 5, 2007 7:17 pm

trwi7 wrote:The problem I've had with Yost's lineup changes is that they're so drastic. I can understand giving one player a day off every now and then which is fine but too many times I've seen lineups of bench players for a game.

Like this one against Kansas City.

Hart
Counsell
Braun
Hall
Mench
Graffanino
Miller
Weeks
Gallardo

That has Hardy and Fielder out of the lineup so not only is the offense going to be horrible you're putting extra pressure on the pitcher because he knows that the offense isn't going to score a lot of runs.

I don't think that his lineup changes have been that bad this season. When you play against a bad team, Kansas City, you should be able to throw a lineup like this one out there and still win. Like it or not, these guys are still young and need a few days off in order to stay fresh for the stretch run.

I think Yost has done a decent job with the lineups, it's just that bullpen and his decisions to take out the starting pitcher when he is only at 80 pitches with 1 ER is where he sucks.

trwi7 · Post #6 » by **trwi7** » Wed Sep 5, 2007 7:24 pm

Ruben Douglas wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I don't think that his lineup changes have been that bad this season. When you play against a bad team, Kansas City, you should be able to throw a lineup like this one out there and still win. Like it or not, these guys are still young and need a few days off in order to stay fresh for the stretch run.

I think Yost has done a decent job with the lineups, it's just that bullpen and his decisions to take out the starting pitcher when he is only at 80 pitches with 1 ER is where he sucks.

Again I said I have no problems giving guys days off where I have the problem is giving guys a day off at the same time. They don't all need to sit at the same time, teams don't fear lineups with Counsell leading off, Graffanino hitting 6th and Miller hitting 8th.

fam3381 · Post #7 » by **fam3381** » Wed Sep 5, 2007 8:36 pm

It's an interesting idea, PP. We have dealt this season with both defensive problems as well as a number of platoon situations, so I think that justifiably leads to a fair amount of game-to-game and in-game management.

I don't mind his handling of the defense and lineups that much, but his bullpen use has enraged me from time to time.

Post #8 » by **paulpressey25** » Wed Sep 5, 2007 9:31 pm

Yost's career defining moment was in September 1982 when he hit that big home run in Fenway for a critical win during the pennant race. While most managers aren't stars but bench players, I just wonder if Yost over-estimates the ability of bench guys and marginal pitchers to contribute.

And to TRW's point, there are times the Brewers lineup reminds me of that Stotts platoon where he'd load up Gadz, Bell, Jiri, etc.