2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th!

[Andi Obst]

There's no way I'm giving up a future first rounder to move up in this draft. We're very likely going to be bad again next year and the 2021 draft seems to be MUCH better. 4 is a good spot IMO.

[cjbulls]

There's no way I'm giving up a future first rounder to move up in this draft. We're very likely going to be bad again next year and the 2021 draft seems to be MUCH better. 4 is a good spot IMO.

Agreed. Those trades work when you have pressure to be good. I don’t think the Bulls FO wants any pressure for next year. It’s about learning who should stay or go on the roster and installing the new coach’s philosophy. Those goals don’t necessarily coincide with winning.

With all that said, if your scouting department identified Edwards as a true cut above, then a lottery protected FRP isn’t a crazy price to pay. I don’t see him getting that review nor do I see Minn/GS making that deal.

[PlayerUp]

There's no way I'm giving up a future first rounder to move up in this draft. We're very likely going to be bad again next year and the 2021 draft seems to be MUCH better. 4 is a good spot IMO.

Well lets not overhype the 2021 draft already. Yes early on it looks great but this draft wasn't supposed to be as bad as it is with many prospects putting up underperforming expectations and the same with the 2019 draft from #3 onwards.

Isaiah Stewart
Cole Anthony
Theo Maledon
Nico Mannion
Jaden McDaniels
RJ Hampton
Josh Green

All underperformed.

That said, I don't think anyone here is going to give up a 2021 Non Protected Pick with #4 to move up a couple spots.

[Brothaman33]

For me, Wiseman's body and athletic ability are eventually too much to pass up. The arguments against him, for the most part, I all agree with. He has some terrible moments on tape. But coming into the league at 7'1" tall with a 7'6" wingspan AND ar 240+ pounds? There is too much to work with there. Also, from what I see in the tape, he has quick feet (for being that big) but either doesnt know where to go or is to eager.

In a bad draft I look at his athletic profile and it blows every other prospect out of the water, outside of Edwards. IMO, I take a chance on that, knowing full well he could flame out. Too big, too athletic, too much potential.

Edwards, Wiseman and Ball should all be gone when the Bulls pick.

[Jvaughn]

I don't think this deserves its own thread, but this was a good article about avoiding busts.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2907034-how-to-spot-an-nba-draft-bust

This part backs up one of my huge issue with drafting Toppin:

22-Year-Old Cutoff for Lottery Picks

History warns against using a lottery pick on players who've turned 22 years old.

Before the Minnesota Timberwolves took Cameron Johnson in 2019—who looks like he'll be a useful rotation piece but maybe a questionable choice over Tyler Herro and PJ Washington—the previous lottery picks since 2004 drafted at 22 or older included Kris Dunn, Buddy Hield, Taurean Prince, Denzel Valentine, Frank Kaminsky, Doug McDermott, Kelly Olynyk, Jimmer Fredette, Wesley Johnson, Ekpe Udoh, Hasheem Thabeet, Tyler Hansbrough, Brandon Rush, Joakim Noah, Acie Law, Al Thornton, Shelden Williams, Randy Foye, JJ Redick, Thabo Sefolosha, Channing Frye, Fran Vazquez, Babby Araujo and Luke Jackson.

This part is interesting as well as there are a good amount of lottery to mid 1st wings who fall under this category.

Low-Assist Wings

Assists are typically expected from point guards, but wings who don't record them may be worth thinking twice about with a high pick.

There are always exceptions since college players don't have as much freedom and their creativity can get masked. But for the most part, a low assist percentage can indicate limitations as a creator, and wings/forwards who aren't creators have a smaller margin for error as scorers and shooters.

From the five drafts between 2013 and 2017, notable wings who had predraft assist rates below 15 percent and have underperformed relative to their draft slot include Shabazz Muhammad, Ben McLemore, Andrew Wiggins, James Young, Mario Hezonja, Stanley Johnson, Rashad Vaughn, Sergey Karasev, Jordan Adams, Justise Winslow, Sam Dekker, Justin Anderson, Malachi Richardson, Terrance Ferguson and Malik Monk.

[MGB8]

For me, Wiseman's body and athletic ability are eventually too much to pass up. The arguments against him, for the most part, I all agree with. He has some terrible moments on tape. But coming into the league at 7'1" tall with a 7'6" wingspan AND ar 240+ pounds? There is too much to work with there. Also, from what I see in the tape, he has quick feet (for being that big) but either doesnt know where to go or is to eager.

In a bad draft I look at his athletic profile and it blows every other prospect out of the water, outside of Edwards. IMO, I take a chance on that, knowing full well he could flame out. Too big, too athletic, too much potential.

Edwards, Wiseman and Ball should all be gone when the Bulls pick.

I agree with this, too.

To me, Wiseman has the highest "reasonably likely" upside of any player in this draft. Ball might have a similar, or even higher, final upside, and Edwards too, due to their "position-advantage" - but both have further to go in terms of lacking skills / current deficiencies (in particular Ball).

Wiseman's size and athleticism at that size is NBA-elite. His defensive instincts look good. The form on his shot look good - though he needs to extend his range (but not get too in love with the 3). The issues are character-related, health-related, and polishing. Still risky... but if he drops down to 4, he'd be my automatic pick due to the upside.

[Leslie Forman]

I'm starting to wonder if trading up for Edwards might actually be a steal. The guy easily has the best tools of anyone in the draft. His tape is head and shoulders above everyone else's. He's really just not being considered much of a #1 prospect because his stats were not very good.

But if you think you can develop those tools of his and that being on an NBA team instead of some awful college team can maximize that talent…you might be committing robbery if all you're giving up is some low ceiling picks/players in return.

Not against the move, but you probably need to move Zach or Coby (likely Zach). Prepared to take less than his fair value?

You are unlikely to get a strong offer. I think you make value on taking Edwards but lose some of it on moving Zach. Not a horrible deal for a team that wants stars but something to consider nevertheless.

You don't need to move a player to move up to #1. You just have to give up next years first round pick.

I don't think you need to do that either.

Maybe Minnesota doesn't want either of them, but there's got to be some team out there you can make a three-way with using Markkanen and/or Carter.

[Jcool0]

Not against the move, but you probably need to move Zach or Coby (likely Zach). Prepared to take less than his fair value?

You are unlikely to get a strong offer. I think you make value on taking Edwards but lose some of it on moving Zach. Not a horrible deal for a team that wants stars but something to consider nevertheless.

You don't need to move a player to move up to #1. You just have to give up next years first round pick.

I don't think you need to do that either.

Maybe Minnesota doesn't want either of them, but there's got to be some team out there you can make a three-way with using Markkanen and/or Carter.

You don't make a draft trade giving up a player. Unless its for a star in return, which isn't happening.

[TheSuzerain]

I don't see any Wiseman's still in the playoffs. I see a few Okongwu's though.

[Southpaw]

There's no way I'm giving up a future first rounder to move up in this draft. We're very likely going to be bad again next year and the 2021 draft seems to be MUCH better. 4 is a good spot IMO.

Agree with this, unless the FO identifies someone who they are extremely confident they can develop into a difference maker, they yeah a lotto protected future pick isn't too bad. I just feel like the top prospects this year are equal that staying at 4 is a good move.

As for Wiseman, I wouldn't hate it if he's the pick at 4, it's just that building around a big is so hard these days and you'd still need an elite wing creator to succeed. But if he's deemed BPA at 4, it's fine.

[TheHrvReport]

#6-#8 next year will be better than #1 this year? Edwards would go #5 at best last year? What is this non-sense? I feel like every single year there is a narrative that the current draft class is weak and next years will be "much better" and then they underperform. I think if AK truly believes Edwards/Ball are in a different league then they should go ahead and trade next years pick with protections (ala Dallas) to get their guy. That is assuming they believe in the current core and they don't want to go back to step 1 of the rebuild

[Fastbrk4brkfast]

I don't see any Wiseman's still in the playoffs. I see a few Okongwu's though.

Preach brother. I just hope he falls to us.

[PlayerUp]

#Edwards would go #5 at best last year?

Edwards would have gone probably #4 in the 2019 NBA Draft. Last years draft was fairly weak as well outside the Top 2. I would prefer the #4 pick in the 2020 NBA Draft over having the #4 pick in the 2019 NBA Draft.

The teams that suffer the most from this draft are Minnesota, Golden State and Charlotte who all have a Top 3 Pick.

[cjbulls]

You don't need to move a player to move up to #1. You just have to give up next years first round pick.

I don't think you need to do that either.

Maybe Minnesota doesn't want either of them, but there's got to be some team out there you can make a three-way with using Markkanen and/or Carter.

You don't make a draft trade giving up a player. Unless its for a star in return, which isn't happening.

For the record I was getting at something else entirely. I am saying if you draft Edwards, you can’t keep LaVine and Coby on the roster and expect the team to be happy and growing. They’re all going to get in each other’s way, and in turn, those of the other developing players in the team.

While normally I’d agree that you don’t generally trade players for picks On draft day (it still happens), the lowered talent at the top combined with the needs of the teams sitting at 1/2 makes a player + #4 for #1/2 trade realistic. But I don’t see anyone on the roster that fits that value. To me, Markkanen LaVine Coby and WCJ are all way too valuable for that move and players like Porter Gafford Hutchison are not nearly valuable enough.

[cjbulls]

#Edwards would go #5 at best last year?

Edwards would have gone probably #4 in the 2019 NBA Draft. Last years draft was fairly weak as well outside the Top 2. I would prefer the #4 pick in the 2020 NBA Draft over having the #4 pick in the 2019 NBA Draft.

The teams that suffer the most from this draft are Minnesota, Golden State and Charlotte who all have a Top 3 Pick.

It’s weird to see all the comparative hype for Edwards when his efficiency numbers are not that far off the much-hated Reddish.

Are you saying he’s the 4th best prospect in 2019? He would not have actually gone 4th with Atlanta’s pick (or NO prior)

[cjbulls]

#6-#8 next year will be better than #1 this year? Edwards would go #5 at best last year? What is this non-sense? I feel like every single year there is a narrative that the current draft class is weak and next years will be "much better" and then they underperform. I think if AK truly believes Edwards/Ball are in a different league then they should go ahead and trade next years pick with protections (ala Dallas) to get their guy. That is assuming they believe in the current core and they don't want to go back to step 1 of the rebuild

It’s hard to argue this when you can’t even tell me who will be #1 this year. For all we know, Hayes, or Avidja or Toppin could go #1.

There are prominent posters here who wouldn’t take Ball or Wiseman in the top 10. Edwards is the only guy who seemingly can’t fall past 3, but even that is not guaranteed.

[MrSparkle]

I got around to watching a full LaMelo game. And yeah, it was one of his best games, so it's hardly representative of the bad. Quick thoughts:

- NBL big men are like Scalabrine, Sweetney and Longley. It was a physical and slow game. Really don't know how to judge the league; IMO the Deni/Israeli-league game I watched seemed like better basketball. There were at least 3 guys who 'tumbled over their ankles' on defense in this game.

- LaMelo's body language is fine in this game. Seems like AU vet David Anderson was talking to him a lot and LaMelo was listening.

- He has some incredibly careless turnovers and weak drives towards the rim throughout the game.

- You come away trusting his ability to be a primary dribbler and passer.

- I don't think he's going to be an NBA all-star, but he does have the potential if works really hard, is mentored well and keeps Lavar out of his life. He does have a hair more size and juke in his cross-over than Lonzo. Not by much, but a little. Defense and shooting are flagged, but they certainly are kind within his power to train and improve.

- Him and Zach would combine for the highest number of high-difficulty/circus-3P/off-the-dribble/low-IQ shots in the NBA. It might be worth the pop-corn.

Watch on YouTube

[PlayerUp]

It’s weird to see all the comparative hype for Edwards when his efficiency numbers are not that far off the much-hated Reddish.

Reddish College Stats
13.5 PPG
35.6% FG
49.9% TS

Edwards College Stats
19.1 PPG
40.2% FG
52% TS

Reddish played on a team that he was a 3rd option with a lesser role with 2 great teammates which normally your efficiency goes up.
Edwards was doubled team all the time playing on an awful team with him and nobody else.

Edwards is clearly a more efficient player. He'd go #4 in the 2019 NBA Draft.

[Leslie Forman]

You don't make a draft trade giving up a player.

Or, just hear me out here, you do.

[BullsFTW]

It’s weird to see all the comparative hype for Edwards when his efficiency numbers are not that far off the much-hated Reddish.

Reddish College Stats
13.5 PPG
35.6% FG
49.9% TS

Edwards College Stats
19.1 PPG
40.2% FG
52% TS

Reddish played on a team that he was a 3rd option with a lesser role with 2 great teammates which normally your efficiency goes up.
Edwards was doubled team all the time playing on an awful team with him and nobody else.

Edwards is clearly a more efficient player. He'd go #4 in the 2019 NBA Draft.

Yeah, Reddish had a mediocre freshman season at Duke. You would think he would be very efficient playing alongside Zion and RJ. I still don’t know how he went that high to Atlanta. Edwards is a much better prospect than Reddish.