2019-20 NBA Season Discussion

[ardee]

Shai should not have been throwing that inbound pass. What a terrible decision. Use an experienced player ffs, not a young un who is going to be freaking out with the gravity of the situation.

CP3 should have won that. Would've been a huge boost to his career narrative.

[70sFan]

People actually think Paul was bad

He wasn't bad, but he couldn't deliver in last minute, which is extremely frustrating because I believed in him. This loss is not on him, but he should have played better.

Yeah he had some bad handles and passes which is extremely bad for a guy with his passing ability and the goat handles

He was very sloppy, something that doesn't happen to him often. Such a shame, because they were really dangerous matchup for anyone.

[ardee]

Giannis definitely fouled Jimmy. People saying it was a make up call for the Dragic "foul" should watch the replay of the Butler shot. Giannis is a giant of a human being. His hand on Butler's mid air body might not look like much but that was very real contact.

[70sFan]

Also, I strongly disagree that Donovan should be fired. It's on him that he continued to play Adams for so long, but otherwise he made some good adjustments during the series. Watch OKC defending Rockets in game one and then watch them in game 7 - it's night and day. The difference between Dort in game 5 and Dort in games 6-7 is also because of him. Dort was engaged much more as a cutter, screener and offensive rebounder. These are all Donovan's decisions.

Donovan is a good coach that made OKC team really good. It's true that Paul is the reason why they went so close to the second round, but I doubt they'd reach that height without Donovan.

[Dupp]

Giannis definitely fouled Jimmy. People saying it was a make up call for the Dragic "foul" should watch the replay of the Butler shot. Giannis is a giant of a human being. His hand on Butler's mid air body might not look like much but that was very real contact.

It was so long after the shot they let that go 9 times out of 10 on the last play of the game. I’m sure it was technically a foul but it didn’t affect anything

[eminence]

Huh, Nets coach Steve Nash. Wasn't expecting that one.

[PaulieWal]

Giannis definitely fouled Jimmy. People saying it was a make up call for the Dragic "foul" should watch the replay of the Butler shot. Giannis is a giant of a human being. His hand on Butler's mid air body might not look like much but that was very real contact.

It was so long after the shot they let that go 9 times out of 10 on the last play of the game. I’m sure it was technically a foul but it didn’t affect anything

The Bucks should have never been tied with Miami to begin with. They got a phantom call on Dragic to tie the game, the end result is the same. They lost as they should have.

[Dupp]

Giannis definitely fouled Jimmy. People saying it was a make up call for the Dragic "foul" should watch the replay of the Butler shot. Giannis is a giant of a human being. His hand on Butler's mid air body might not look like much but that was very real contact.

It was so long after the shot they let that go 9 times out of 10 on the last play of the game. I’m sure it was technically a foul but it didn’t affect anything

The Bucks should have never been tied with Miami to begin with. They got a phantom call on Dragic to tie the game, the end result is the same. They lost as they should have.

I dunno that dragic one I can kinda see a foul coz he kind of slid under Khris. Still that’s a bit of a stretch and probably should have been noticing.

[Dupp]

Huh, Nets coach Steve Nash. Wasn't expecting that one.

Good move

[limbo]

It was so long after the shot they let that go 9 times out of 10 on the last play of the game. I’m sure it was technically a foul but it didn’t affect anything

The Bucks should have never been tied with Miami to begin with. They got a phantom call on Dragic to tie the game, the end result is the same. They lost as they should have.

I dunno that dragic one I can kinda see a foul coz he kind of slid under Khris. Still that’s a bit of a stretch and probably should have been noticing.

No way is that a foul on Dragic. He was set and motionless before Middleton released the ball... And also Middleton was the one with forward momentum because he was executing a pull up off the dribble...

If this is considered a foul in the modern NBA you officially can't play defense against shooters anymore... It's over. Just stay under the rim and hope they miss.

[Dupp]

The Bucks should have never been tied with Miami to begin with. They got a phantom call on Dragic to tie the game, the end result is the same. They lost as they should have.

I dunno that dragic one I can kinda see a foul coz he kind of slid under Khris. Still that’s a bit of a stretch and probably should have been noticing.

No way is that a foul on Dragic. He was set and motionless before Middleton released the ball... And also Middleton was the one with forward momentum because he was executing a pull up off the dribble...

If this is considered a foul in the modern NBA you officially can't play defense against shooters anymore... It's over. Just stay under the rim and hope they miss.

I don’t think it was a foul either but when khris was In the air he slid one foot toward under his landing space very slightly so maybe that was the logic.

[therealbig3]

Shai should not have been throwing that inbound pass. What a terrible decision. Use an experienced player ffs, not a young un who is going to be freaking out with the gravity of the situation.

CP3 should have won that. Would've been a huge boost to his career narrative.

I think that was a classic CP3 chokejob, and that the loss is partially on him. They would have won if he simply played a lot better, especially down the stretch.

I don't like saying players "choked", but I don't know how else to describe it. He was clearly trying to avoid the ball whenever he could, missed a point blank shot at the rim that would have tied it late, and had a horrible turnover against Gordon late in the game. And that last play with Dort, people are overlooking how he wasted pretty much all of their time before making a move, only for him to almost turn it over again and have the play result in that last second scramble. Either he or Billy Donovan should have called a timeout to call an actual play WAY earlier than they actually did, when CP3's pass initially got disrupted and they only had like 5 seconds left at that point.

IDK, CP3 didn't really do anything positive offensively in the last few minutes of that game, just a whole bunch of negatives. The last good plays I remember is him hitting a 3 to give them a short-lived lead, and then a nice push of pace and pass to Dort for a dunk off a made basket. Otherwise, he was invisible other than turnovers and a bad miss.

And if CP3 deserves criticism for anything throughout his career...that's typically what happens to him in the playoffs. Becomes super passive and basically disappears at the worst times. Not saying he has to shoot the ball every time, but he needs to dictate what happens way more, not be a spot up shooter. Lesser players like SGA or Dort or Schroder (and Crawford in LAC) are the ones left to create offense because CP3 doesn't.

[Dupp]

Paul was bad the last few minutes and harden was bad the whole game. Neither helped their narrative at all but harden was way worse and just got lucky.

[ardee]

I had a friend compare Harden to Dirk to me and say they expect a 2011 type run from him eventually to get his title... couldn't agree less. Dirk literally only ever played badly in 2 series in the 5 years before his title. Harden's best series might match Dirk's average Playoff prime level, and that too with a better cast.

[ardee]

Shai should not have been throwing that inbound pass. What a terrible decision. Use an experienced player ffs, not a young un who is going to be freaking out with the gravity of the situation.

CP3 should have won that. Would've been a huge boost to his career narrative.

I think that was a classic CP3 chokejob, and that the loss is partially on him. They would have won if he simply played a lot better, especially down the stretch.

I don't like saying players "choked", but I don't know how else to describe it. He was clearly trying to avoid the ball whenever he could, missed a point blank shot at the rim that would have tied it late, and had a horrible turnover against Gordon late in the game. And that last play with Dort, people are overlooking how he wasted pretty much all of their time before making a move, only for him to almost turn it over again and have the play result in that last second scramble. Either he or Billy Donovan should have called a timeout to call an actual play WAY earlier than they actually did, when CP3's pass initially got disrupted and they only had like 5 seconds left at that point.

IDK, CP3 didn't really do anything positive offensively in the last few minutes of that game, just a whole bunch of negatives. The last good plays I remember is him hitting a 3 to give them a short-lived lead, and then a nice push of pace and pass to Dort for a dunk off a made basket. Otherwise, he was invisible other than turnovers and a bad miss.

And if CP3 deserves criticism for anything throughout his career...that's typically what happens to him in the playoffs. Becomes super passive and basically disappears at the worst times. Not saying he has to shoot the ball every time, but he needs to dictate what happens way more, not be a spot up shooter. Lesser players like SGA or Dort or Schroder (and Crawford in LAC) are the ones left to create offense because CP3 doesn't.

What about the idea that the last few minutes of a game don't count more than any of the others? This was what helped me stop using the "clutch" argument when I joined RealGM years ago.

[ShotCreator]

Shai should not have been throwing that inbound pass. What a terrible decision. Use an experienced player ffs, not a young un who is going to be freaking out with the gravity of the situation.

CP3 should have won that. Would've been a huge boost to his career narrative.

And if CP3 deserves criticism for anything throughout his career...that's typically what happens to him in the playoffs. Becomes super passive and basically disappears at the worst times. Not saying he has to shoot the ball every time, but he needs to dictate what happens way more, not be a spot up shooter. Lesser players like SGA or Dort or Schroder (and Crawford in LAC) are the ones left to create offense because CP3 doesn't.

But there’s nothing to support this. He has way more big moments than small. This is a bad opinion more than objective fact. He has dictated countless 4th quarters in the playoffs. He did in this series.

It’s a game 7. They are almost always gritty and slugged out.

I’m not sure why people are using Paul’s own brilliance against him by expecting amazing. You don’t expect amazing. Especially from a 35 year old.

The guy hits a layup in the last 3 mins, and he’s what? A different player? Would that define his career now? How would that balance out with all the other supposed passive moments you are talking about?

Do you realize this exists?:



For his archetype, he is plenty aggressive. Possibly the most aggressive ever.

To go along with plenty, actually plenty of late game brilliance in the playoffs. Especially for a guy with a relatively low amount of playoff games played for his age. Kawhi has played more playoff games than CP3. So has Curry. Compare their amount of game winners and crazy 4Q’s. CP3 probably literally tops them combined.

No realistically, it would get ignored in the grand scheme. Then they get swept out by LA in a “second round knockout”.

This is even ignoring the fact that the guy EFFICIENTLY scored 10 points in the 4th quarter. OKC scores 20 4Q points, Houston scored 19.

Chris Paul scored 10 by himself.

But the only minutes that matter are the last 3? The foul-heavy, sloppy, bogged down minutes of the game. The actual basketball being played in every game, defines him?

It was obvious at the time, but an underrated thing is Donovan’s benching Chris Paul at around 6 min mark until 3:51 left. Just ripping all rhythm away.

No, in a series where his coach is actually being stupid and putting them in 4 v 5 on both ends, getting locked down in the final mins of a game 7 is not surprising. Especially against 5 plus defenders essentially.

[MisterHibachi]

This, unfortunately, is starting to look like a sweep. Boston is just getting everything they want, and half court scoring is such a struggle for the Raptors.

[Joey Wheeler]

You can't really blame Paul for anything, he was probably the best player in the series actually. OKC just lack offensive talent and are poorly coached. Honestly Harden was a much bigger disappointment, what a terrible performance in a big playoff moment again.

[therealbig3]

I'm blaming Paul for standing in the corner while Schroeder or SGA were trying to break down the defense. It was plainly obvious that he was avoiding the basketball. And when he did have the basketball, what happened? Not good things (talking about his brutal end to the game).

Nash and Curry don't do that. You don't think defenses keyed in on them and tried to get the ball out of their hands? They still made sure to be involved in the plays, and they often times did more good than bad when they got the ball. That wasn't the case with Paul yesterday, he was downright awful at the end of the game. If you want to deny that it's a trend for his career, fine, but it's what happened yesterday.

Using his age is strange, because he was still an All-Star, still averaged 18/7, and is still in conversation as a top 10-15 player in the league. Yeah he's old...but still super capable. Which makes it all the more frustrating. There were other problems obviously, but I think Paul simply playing better would have made those problems irrelevant.

[Lost92Bricks]

If you take Nash and Curry from their teams/systems and put them on a team like OKC I don't think they would do as good as CP3. Especially at age 35.