Trade Talk (Part Four)

[shrink]

But what is stopping the Knicks from just tossing clippers and mavs picks at us and keeping Mitchell. Im thinking with all those future firsts, they can sell to their fan base that they have a good core to add to.

Would you turn down:
2020 CLIP FRP
2021 CLIP FRP
2021 DALLAS FRP
2023 DALLAS FRP
2022 NYC FRP.

The 2020 LAC pick is #27. The 2021 is a pick swap, and that’s top 4 protected. With Doncic doing this well, this young, it’s hard to see the DAL picks better than in the 20’s, and the 2023 pick is top 10 protected anyway. It’s not that these picks have no value, but most have limited upside, and how many rotation/bench players does one team need?

The 2022 NY pick has value. But like I said, if they wanted to pull Mitchell and Barrett and still get the #1 overall pick, they’d need to be talking about their own pick, either lightly or unprotected. I just said 2021, which would be worth more.

The other thing ai should mention is that those picks just aren’t as valuable to MIN or GSW specifically. MIN wants to work on KAT’s timeline, and a rookie in 2022 that needs training isn’t perfect. GSW would like a young center that can help them win now. If NYK insisted on keeping Mitchell, they’d probably need to add a fourth team to use those picks to come up with a similar fit to Mitchell. Mitchell is a good player, but he doesn’t fit everywhere - he would fit in GSW, in my opinion.

That's a ton of draft capital though. If you swap out that '22 Knicks pick for even a protected one next year...I don't know, I'd be tempted. Dallas is a Luka ankle turn away from being a lottery team and having more 1sts is better than not. I mean, we just turned one into Beasley and Hernangomez so even later ones can have real value.

To me, the HOU pick (24?) demonstrates how UNvaluable non-lotto picks are. We gave one up to audition those two guys for half a season. Both are RFA’s, and while we got Bird rights, if they get offers that are higher than we want to match, then we gave the pick up for nothing.

The problem with non-lotto picks is their estimated value is a role player. Sure, someone always gets lucky and finds a Star with a late pick, but far more don’t even become rotation players. For example, I’m perfectly happy that we got Josh Okogie with .. what .. the #20? ..and he’s done fine for us. However, if we needed to replace Okogie, do you think it would be difficult to find someone of comparable overall skill? Lottery picks have high value because you have a much better chance of getting stars, locked up for several years. Most teams can’t get stars in free agency, but they can find players to fill a rotation there. How many slices of bread would it take before you traded someone your only steak?

[IceManBK1]

https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2020/09/04/dangelo-russell-explains-why-ben-simmons-wont-shoot-jump-shots/

if we land Simmons, we just need to tell him to be confident and give him the green light to shoot. Maybe not 3pters but some midranges. Simmons does have a nice post fadeaway. Nobody give him credit for that.

[KGdaBom]

The 2020 LAC pick is #27. The 2021 is a pick swap, and that’s top 4 protected. With Doncic doing this well, this young, it’s hard to see the DAL picks better than in the 20’s, and the 2023 pick is top 10 protected anyway. It’s not that these picks have no value, but most have limited upside, and how many rotation/bench players does one team need?

The 2022 NY pick has value. But like I said, if they wanted to pull Mitchell and Barrett and still get the #1 overall pick, they’d need to be talking about their own pick, either lightly or unprotected. I just said 2021, which would be worth more.

The other thing ai should mention is that those picks just aren’t as valuable to MIN or GSW specifically. MIN wants to work on KAT’s timeline, and a rookie in 2022 that needs training isn’t perfect. GSW would like a young center that can help them win now. If NYK insisted on keeping Mitchell, they’d probably need to add a fourth team to use those picks to come up with a similar fit to Mitchell. Mitchell is a good player, but he doesn’t fit everywhere - he would fit in GSW, in my opinion.

That's a ton of draft capital though. If you swap out that '22 Knicks pick for even a protected one next year...I don't know, I'd be tempted. Dallas is a Luka ankle turn away from being a lottery team and having more 1sts is better than not. I mean, we just turned one into Beasley and Hernangomez so even later ones can have real value.

To me, the HOU pick (24?) demonstrates how UNvaluable non-lotto picks are. We gave one up to audition those two guys for half a season. Both are RFA’s, and while we got Bird rights, if they get offers that are higher than we want to match, then we gave the pick up for nothing.

The problem with non-lotto picks is their estimated value is a role player. Sure, someone always gets lucky and finds a Star with a late pick, but far more don’t even become rotation players. For example, I’m perfectly happy that we got Josh Okogie with .. what .. the #20? ..and he’s done fine for us. However, if we needed to replace Okogie, do you think it would be difficult to find someone of comparable overall skill? Lottery picks have high value because you have a much better chance of getting stars, locked up for several years. Most teams can’t get stars in free agency, but they can find players to fill a rotation there. How many slices of bread would it take before you traded someone your only steak?

Okogie was a good pick at 20, but as you say he's not really meaningful in the big scheme.

[KGdaBom]

https://fadeawayworld.net/2020/09/04/nba-rumors-bulls-could-trade-zach-lavine-and-lauri-markkanen-to-timberwolves-for-top-pick/

I'll take lavine+markkanen+4th pick for #1, JJ, Culver. Maybe i'll take Thaddeus Young from the Bulls too.
Dlo/J-mac
Lavine/Okogie
Young/layman
Markkanen(Oneyeka with the 4th pick)
Towns/Reid

Doesn't include the 4th. So, hell no.

I keep seeing people post these articles that link back to Zach Buckley from BR like he's some reputable source and not just literally vomiting out whatever insane ideas pop into his head in order to get clicks. I guess it's working though. The amount of "reacting to BR's latest article" videos I've seen on youtube are growing by the day so despite the fact everyone savages this dude's opinions, he's getting attention.

It'd be a good trade if they include the 4th pick..maybe we give them a couple 2nd rounders to make the trade more fair lol.

I'm confused. The 4th pick ws in there from the start of Iceman's proposal.

[IceManBK1]

Doesn't include the 4th. So, hell no.

I keep seeing people post these articles that link back to Zach Buckley from BR like he's some reputable source and not just literally vomiting out whatever insane ideas pop into his head in order to get clicks. I guess it's working though. The amount of "reacting to BR's latest article" videos I've seen on youtube are growing by the day so despite the fact everyone savages this dude's opinions, he's getting attention.

It'd be a good trade if they include the 4th pick..maybe we give them a couple 2nd rounders to make the trade more fair lol.

I'm confused. The 4th pick ws in there from the start of Iceman's proposal.

he meant the proposal in the article didn't include the 4th pick from the bulls.

[shrink]

https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2020/09/04/dangelo-russell-explains-why-ben-simmons-wont-shoot-jump-shots/

if we land Simmons, we just need to tell him to be confident and give him the green light to shoot. Maybe not 3pters but some midranges. Simmons does have a nice post fadeaway. Nobody give him credit for that.

I always forget Russell and Simmons were high school teammates. It’s also been mentioned that Towns and Simmons are close, and it is rumored that Towns secretly lobbied FOR Simmons to the NBA Disciplinary Board when Simmons choked him during KAT’s fight with Embiid, and that was why Simmons was unpunished.

I think forming the three amigos with Devin Booker is a pipe dream. Maybe Simmons is the third amigo that makes everyone happy? I don’t like the fit, but he is clearly talent.

[Jedzz]

https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2020/09/04/dangelo-russell-explains-why-ben-simmons-wont-shoot-jump-shots/

if we land Simmons, we just need to tell him to be confident and give him the green light to shoot. Maybe not 3pters but some midranges. Simmons does have a nice post fadeaway. Nobody give him credit for that.

Don't even expect it. Better yet, don't trade for him. By all means, don't pay much for him if you do. Philly should have to pay another team to take him right now at a Max deal for a player that refuses to shoot 3s. 7 attempted in 3 starting seasons. Plus knee injury concerns on an athletic freak of a 6-10 player that relies on that athleticism without other shooting skills. Couldn't put it together with Embiid. This really shouldn't be much different than how we moved Wiggins. Alas, everyone thinks he's a superstar player because someone refused to admit he wasn't.

[IceManBK1]

https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2020/09/04/dangelo-russell-explains-why-ben-simmons-wont-shoot-jump-shots/

if we land Simmons, we just need to tell him to be confident and give him the green light to shoot. Maybe not 3pters but some midranges. Simmons does have a nice post fadeaway. Nobody give him credit for that.

Don't even expect it. Better yet, don't trade for him. By all means, don't pay much for him if you do. Philly should have to pay another team to take him right now at a Max deal for a player that refuses to shoot 3s. 7 attempted in 3 starting seasons. Plus knee injury concerns on an athletic freak of a 6-10 player that relies on that athleticism without other shooting skills. Couldn't put it together with Embiid. This really shouldn't be much different than how we moved Wiggins. Alas, everyone thinks he's a superstar player because someone refused to admit he wasn't.

We have shooters to surround Ben though. He defends all 5 positions. attacks the rim at well. great ball handler and passer as a big. He can probly give you a valuable 15 and 10 without shooting 3s.

[Jedzz]

https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2020/09/04/dangelo-russell-explains-why-ben-simmons-wont-shoot-jump-shots/

if we land Simmons, we just need to tell him to be confident and give him the green light to shoot. Maybe not 3pters but some midranges. Simmons does have a nice post fadeaway. Nobody give him credit for that.

Don't even expect it. Better yet, don't trade for him. By all means, don't pay much for him if you do. Philly should have to pay another team to take him right now at a Max deal for a player that refuses to shoot 3s. 7 attempted in 3 starting seasons. Plus knee injury concerns on an athletic freak of a 6-10 player that relies on that athleticism without other shooting skills. Couldn't put it together with Embiid. This really shouldn't be much different than how we moved Wiggins. Alas, everyone thinks he's a superstar player because someone refused to admit he wasn't.

We have shooters to surround Ben though. He defends all 5 positions. attacks the rim at well. great ball handler and passer as a big. He can probly give you a valuable 15 and 10 without shooting 3s.

Look I admit he's a good defender and a gifted net player, in other words a good rotational player for your roster. But not a kill your cap max player to build everything around. You absolutely need three excellent three point shooters around this guy and I think Wolves have that. But I would be concerned with two things trying to trade for him now with the price Philly has on his head. First is who and how much would you lose to attain him, and looking at how much he needs to be on ball and what that will mean for less from the others. If the Wolves have to either trade Beasley or let him walk because they can't afford him and Simmons, then the Wolves are down to two real scoring threats. It's not enough for around Simmons. Maybe someone will claim keeping Juancho around would keep enough shooting, but that's if they can afford him either once you are paying over 90 to three players and one of them can't shoot at all.

[KGdaBom]

It'd be a good trade if they include the 4th pick..maybe we give them a couple 2nd rounders to make the trade more fair lol.

I'm confused. The 4th pick ws in there from the start of Iceman's proposal.

he meant the proposal in the article didn't include the 4th pick from the bulls.

OIC. No 4th pick the deal is out of the question.

[theGreatRC]

We need to be realistic...even before we won the #1 pick, we were talking about the draft not being that strong, even though it is filled with guards/quality role players in the future..

We can't take the Bulls 3 best assets for our 3rd best asset(KAT/DLO are 1&2) + a player coming off a disappointing rookie year & an expiring contract.

It's either we get Zach OR Lauri + pick swap..i'd take Zach + OO in the draft. That's a nasty lineup.

[KGdaBom]

We need to be realistic...even before we won the #1 pick, we were talking about the draft not being that strong, even though it is filled with guards/quality role players in the future..

We can't take the Bulls 3 best assets for our 3rd best asset(KAT/DLO are 1&2) + a player coming off a disappointing rookie year & an expiring contract.

It's either we get Zach OR Lauri + pick swap..i'd take Zach + OO in the draft. That's a nasty lineup.

Zach is one of the highest scoring players in the NBA, but is he a winning player? If you think he is that deal is solid. If you think he isn't then it isn't.

[Neeva]

Zach aint worh a top 5 pick on his own and lauri is set for a new contract and is a player that is already declining in health and play. Not sure how anyone but a bulls homer thinks those two get you the top pick and Culver (who may still show improvement) and an expiring.

[packforfreedom]

#1, #17, all our future picks, Russell, Culver for Giannis. Do it Rosas

[shrink]

Zach aint worh a top 5 pick on his own and lauri is set for a new contract and is a player that is already declining in health and play. Not sure how anyone but a bulls homer thinks those two get you the top pick and Culver (who may still show improvement) and an expiring.

Right. Moreover, while I love Zach’s work ethic, he is one of the worst defenders in the NBA. He constantly blows defenses and he continues to get lost out on the floor. What’s worse, when I listened to his interview with Zach Lowe about what he needed to work on, it was all about offense with him. You can’t have a back court with DLo and Zach.

And Zach is only about scoring as the #1 option in CHI. Is he third option here? Or do we make Russell third option on his max deal?

Neither Zach nor Lauri is worth a great deal.

[NebWolvesFan]

For me, Minnesota should keep pushing for Collins. I still think Atlanta will move him for the right offer. Atlanta has made draft trades the past two years and I could see them pulling the trigger again. Rosas and Co. have two months to put the puzzle together.

Collins keeps improving and maybe Atlanta will think "We couldn't win with Young and Collins, maybe we could win with Young and Edwards."

Will it be easy? No, but a good front office can get it done.

[Mattya]

1. Johnson for Iggy TPE.

2. Cash + #33 to buy back into the late first round to a team looking to save money (Miami, Boston, Philly)

3. Then try to target a player like Oubre or Ross. The contract difference between Johnson and these players offsets the cost to buy back into the first and gets players who could contribute.

[KGdaBom]

#1, #17, all our future picks, Russell, Culver for Giannis. Do it Rosas

He can't shoot. He will clog the lane and destroy our offense.

[KGdaBom]

For me, Minnesota should keep pushing for Collins. I still think Atlanta will move him for the right offer. Atlanta has made draft trades the past two years and I could see them pulling the trigger again. Rosas and Co. have two months to put the puzzle together.

Collins keeps improving and maybe Atlanta will think "We couldn't win with Young and Collins, maybe we could win with Young and Edwards."

Will it be easy? No, but a good front office can get it done.

I would do #1 and crappy players to match salary for Collins and #6

[jayu70]

What about Porzingis?

Mavs maybe second guessing his injury history as ideal duo next to the 21yo Doncic. They could also covet the ability while Doncic is on his rookie contract to maximize cap space for one — maybe two — max free agents with Doncic recruiting.

Wolves could have themselves twin towers with an abundance of shooting. Porzingis can try and cover for Towns D at the rim.

Hawks Give: #6 Overall + Dedmon + 2021 1st (limited protections) + OKC 1st Owed
Hawks Get: #1 Overall + Powell + Kleber
Hawks Reasoning: get Edwards.

Mavs Give: Porzingis + Powell + Kleber
Mavs Get: #6 Overall + Culver + Johnson + Dedmon + 2021 Hawks 1st + OKC 1st Owed (via Hawks)
Mavs Reasoning: Doncic would have a young squad built around him, with cap space for max contract, maybe 2. Mavs gain some assets too. I wouldn’t be too worried about Mavs unprotected 2021 1st owed Knicks, Doncic has carried the team without Porzingis.

Wolves Give: #1 Overall + Johnson + Culver
Wolves Get: Porzingis
Wolves Reasoning: gamble Porzingis and Towns can be dynamic front court duo.

I don't think Hawks do that deal. Powell won't be available to play and his long term contract is a problem (rumor is they turned down #18 and Powell as a salary dump from Dallas). Also, Hawks aren't that enamored with Edwards to trade up for him. We are hearing 'not so good' whispers behind the scenes. (whatever that means).

How much is our #17 pick worth? I know Boston wants to move up with their two late FRPs... I might consider doing #17 for #26 and #30 (that's where the mocks say their picks are)... I don't know much about late-first round draft capital and these picks values.. I would assume this is close.. I'd even be willing to throw in Omari Spellman if we could get this done pre-draft. Here's why I would want to..

If Atlanta says they would be willing to trade Cam Reddish and #6 for #1 and another FRP (plus filler, like Layman and Evans), I think giving up #17 is too big of a price, but maybe #1 and #26 would be more palatable. This would be difficult to pull off because we would need to execute the Celtics trade prior to the Hawks trade, which I am not sure how willing Boston would be to do that without seeing who is/will be available at #17..
u

Highly unlikely that Atlanta trades Reddish for anyone in THIS draft. Yes, they are that high on his potential and what he did to finish the season after a very rough start.

For me, Minnesota should keep pushing for Collins. I still think Atlanta will move him for the right offer. Atlanta has made draft trades the past two years and I could see them pulling the trigger again. Rosas and Co. have two months to put the puzzle together.

Collins keeps improving and maybe Atlanta will think "We couldn't win with Young and Collins, maybe we could win with Young and Edwards."

Will it be easy? No, but a good front office can get it done.

Hawks aren't interested in trading Collins for any pick in this draft. Yes we made trades the last 2 years but those were pick centric trades, not involving players they have deemed part of their 'Core 5'
If Collins is traded it will be part of a bigger package for an established star that can help them wins games next season - not for a flawed rookie that will be fighting for minutes at SG with Huerter and Reddish. Hawks traded you the #17 pick to get Capela to shore up their defensive deficiencies at Center to help Trae and Collins. The goal next season is to play to win to make the playoffs.