NBA Trade Thread

[sco]

I know a lot of you don't want to trade LaVine, but I think we should be thinking about it. The reason I say this, and I don't think we talk about this enough, is that he has two years left on his contract, and when it expires he will be facing that all-import first UFA of his career. Barring a miracle turnaround for our team in two short years, I am genuinely not sure why he would re-sign here when I there will, I would imagine, be better opportunities in front of him. After spending eight years on bad Wolves teams and bad Bulls teams, I'd think he jump at the chance to finally choose to play for a good team. So I think it could make sense to move him ahead of time while we still have some leverage, if the right deal comes along.

Brooklyn has expressed interest. My thinking is, we could entice them further by adding Thad to the pot. Thad can still be a positive contributor to a playoff team off the bench. I assume Brooklyn is looking to contend right away. They'd be getting good depth without a long-term salary commitment(Thad's got two years, the second partially guaranteed, left).

Matching salary is a bit tricky, but I've got two ideas...

#1

Bulls get: Caris LeVert, Garrett Temple, David Nwaba, (any two of Dzanan Musa, Rodions Kurucs, Nicholas Claxton, or Theo Pinson), #19
Nets get: Zach LaVine, Thad Young

For arguments' sake, I'll say we get Musa and Claxton(I think Claxton could develop into a good player).

Maybe we take someone like R.J. Hampton at #19, but that's just one suggestion.

Nwaba is pure filler and rehabbing his achilles, so we could probably just waive him.

Depending on whether we Deni or a PG at #4, we could like

C - Carter, Gafford
PF - Lauri, Porter, Claxton
SF - LeVert, Musa
SG - Coby, Temple, R.J. Hampton
PG - Ball or Hayes, Sato

or

C - Carter, Gafford
PF - Lauri, Porter, Claxton
SF - Deni, Musa
SG - LeVert, Temple, R.J. Hampton
PG - Coby, Sato

#2

Bulls get: Caris LeVert, Taurean Prince
Nets get: Zach LaVine, Thad Young

This one is a simpler 2-for-2 deal.

Depending on who we take at #4, we look like

C - Carter, Gafford
PF - Lauri, Porter
SF - LeVert, Prince
SG - Coby, LeVert, Sato
PG - Ball or Hayes, Sato

or

C - Carter, Gafford
PF - Lauri, Porter
SF - Deni, Prince
SG - LeVert, Coby
PG - Coby, Sato

I just think #1 would be more likely because I think they might value Prince, and also we might not want Prince's contract(it would eat into 2021 cap space).

In either case, the Bulls get LeVert who, while not quite as good as LaVine, can play SF where LaVine can't(thus giving us more options with Coby) and is signed for one year longer than Zach. We also either get another young wing in Prince, or another first-rounder(#19) and some youngins to take a chance on who the Nets won't have minutes for anyway with Durant back and Thad in the rotation.

Meanwhile, the Nets get a fully-loaded nine-man rotation ready to contend(assuming they re-sign Harris, which they should):

C - Jarrett Allen, DeAndre Jordan
PF - Kevin Durant, Thad Young
SF - Joe Harris, Taurean Prince OR Garrett Temple
SG - Zach LaVine, Spencer Dinwiddie
PG - Kyrie Irving, Spencer Dinwiddie

I know some will hate this, but I just feel like this could make some sense for both sides.

I'm neutral on trading Lavine, but it has to be a deal that I want to really jump on. LeVert is, as you say, near Lavine talent-wise, but he is more injury prone. I want more back along the lines of:

Zach/Thad for Dinwiddie, Levert, Prince, Allen

You're saying you'd want all four of those guys? If so, you're asking for too much. LaVine's not worth that much.

You're probably right, but sometimes teams who see themselves as that 3rd star away from winning a championship are the ones who are willing to overpay to get that guy. I'd probably do the deal for just Levert and either Dinwiddie or Allen.

[Jeffster81]

Of course Miami would LOVE to trade Herro for Lavine but in no way, shape or form, should the Bulls trade Lavine for Herro. I like Herro as player but Lavine upside is still significantly higher that Herro.

[aramada]

A rare lateral trade that could help both teams:
LaVine, Porter for Middleton, Bledsoe, and #24

Bulls balance their roster with more defense and “equal opportunity offense”. Coby steps in Zach’s shoes and Lauri gets more touches. Middleton is the best player in this trade #24 offsets the future salary the Bulls take on.

Bledsoe/Coby/Middleton/Lauri/Carter
(Dunn) / Sato / Hutch / Deni (or Toppin or Onyeka) / Young / Gafford / #24

Milwaukee adds scoring punch in LaVine in addition to Porter’s versatility. Zach is a better Robin to Giannis’ Batman than Middleton

[sco]

A rare lateral trade that could help both teams:
LaVine, Porter for Middleton, Bledsoe, and #24

Bulls balance their roster with more defense and “equal opportunity offense”. Coby steps in Zach’s shoes and Lauri gets more touches. Middleton is the best player in this trade #24 offsets the future salary the Bulls take on.

Bledsoe/Coby/Middleton/Lauri/Carter
(Dunn) / Sato / Hutch / Deni (or Toppin or Onyeka) / Young / Gafford / #24

Milwaukee adds scoring punch in LaVine in addition to Porter’s versatility. Zach is a better Robin to Giannis’ Batman than Middleton

Doubt MIL does that. Middleton is the best talent in that deal.

[BullsFTW]

LaVine + #4 for Beal

[GimmeDat]

This guy. Don't make me pull up one of your essays on Culver

'This guy' hey?

I liked Culver a lot going into the draft, think I had him about 4 or so.. and for the most part, his primary skills had translated. But going 66/221 (29%) from 3 after going 104/305 (34%) through college, and even more concerningly 46% from the FT line after going 69% from the line across 316 attempts, changes his outlook dramatically. He went from being below average shooter to a complete non-shooter with a regression in mechanics.

I never would've traded WCJ for Culver as much as I liked him back then, because I was higher on WCJ than I was on Culver. The fact that Culver had such a dramatically concerning rookie season only widens that gap.

Nothing about what I said was inconsistent with previous comments, but feel free to have a go at me anyway.

I hate to say I told you so, but last yr you were posting essays about the greatness of Jarrett Culver and coming at me for saying either Rui Hachimura or Cam Reddish would be much better picks at 7. Boy were you wrong. The yr before you were posting essays about the greatness of Mo Bamba. Nothing against you personally, you seem like a great guy. But you should reevaluate the way you look at prospects and consider other viewpoints

Always do listen to other viewpoints - my perspectives are always a combination of my own viewpoint combined with the insights that many others share.

But to try and collect receipts after guys rookie seasons?

Wasn't particularly high on Rui (off the top of my head around mid-1st/top 20), and I stay the same on that. We knew he could score pretty well, that much was evident from college.. but he reads the game fairly slowly on both ends and his 3pt shot has a long way to go. I think he'll eventually work his shot out to 3, but developing passing/bball IQ/defense are things I usually like to bet against.

Reddish, I always acknowledged the upside, but the likelihood of him hitting that upside given the many extremely concerning red flags was very low. I personally was quite encouraged by his rookie season play, so I'm happy to admit I feel somewhat more optimistic on him now, but overall, you're talking about a guy that shot 38% FG and 33% 3PT (and that was with a hot shooting end to the season). His offense was abysmal, arguably the worst in the league, for a good portion of the season. He was struggling to shoot the rock and his complete lack of pop meant he was getting obliterated at the rim when he did get there.

The one I've changed my tune on the most out of the 3 is Culver, because of his unforeseen shooting regression. Other than that, I don't really look back with much change in retrospect.

As for Bamba, I'll admit, I'm not quite as high where we are right now. What I did always say is that he was going to be a multi-year project, and I'd probably made to look silly the first couple of years. I still think he can pan out to be a very good player, but in retrospect, I do look at my draft philosophy from a few years ago and think I did fall in love with projects/toolsy guys a little too much and I underrated potential motor concerns a little.

I went and found my 2018 board, out of interest.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1630196&start=120

1. Doncic
2. Ayton
3. JJJ
4. Bagley
5. Bamba
6. Carter
7. Trae
8. MPJ
9. Miles Bridges
10. Mikal Bridges

All in all, I'm happy with that. Was all in on Doncic, plus happy with Ayton and JJJ at 2/3, both those bigs have been awesome. Trae would obviously be 4 in a re-do but I don't mind where I had him because he had such a high threshold to meet in order to be a winning contributor at his size (basically had to be a dominating offense engine, which he has turned out to be).

Bagley and Bamba are the 2 toolsy projects I would have lower in retrospect. That said, I think they both will be a lot better than they are right now, particularly Bagley, he's had a bad situation with the Kings plus injury issues. He's been productive when healthy.

Happy with WCJ at 6, and MPJ at 8. Bought the upside on MPJ but wasn't going top 5 on him with his injury issues. Obviously would swap the Bridges looking back, Miles has been somewhat disappointing, but again I think he has better to come.

Also happy that I didn't buy into the Knox love (14) or get too high on Sexton (11). I didn't fully appreciate SGA, he's someone I missed a bit on, had him 17.

Look, none of us have a perfect hit rate, I will more than happily acknowledge where I missed. If we're going back 2 years, particularly, I've learnt lots in terms of evaluating guys. But I think overall I have had a pretty good success rate, and in the examples you're describing, I don't see how you can try and 'get me' with them.

Also not trying to come on here and tell people definitively what's right and wrong. In this instance I just said I strongly disagree with WCJ<Culver when Carter has been immensely better in their respective young careers.

As for Hayes<Wiseman, that's definitely debatable, I'm happy to see how that pans out. But personally I have Hayes higher, both as a fit and as a talent.

[Grodoboldo]

Guys, the draft is mostly a crapshoot.
It's fun to speculate about projections, but going after people just because they disagreed with your assessment a year before seems petty to me.

[Chi town]

Of course Miami would LOVE to trade Herro for Lavine but in no way, shape or form, should the Bulls trade Lavine for Herro. I like Herro as player but Lavine upside is still significantly higher that Herro.

Herro is a rookie. What he is doing in the playoffs as a rookie are insane.

I think Lavine has more value. Ok looking more at it like Herro, a pick, and the player we can sign for Zach’s salary.

In overall impact right now I’d think Herro would give us similar impact on winning as Lavine. That’s how elite his IQ is.

[gobullschi]

I’m all aboard the Tobias Harris train, especially because we can get additional draft picks. B/c of COVID, teams scouting reports are going to be all over the map, which could allow some guys to fall further than they should.

OPJ for Tobias Harris, #21, #34, & #36.

[Chicagoat]

I’m all aboard the Tobias Harris train, especially because we can get additional draft picks. B/c of COVID, teams scouting reports are going to be all over the map, which could allow some guys to fall further than they should.

OPJ for Tobias Harris, #21, #34, & #36.

I would not take Harris's contract off their hands for so little. Two future first rounders would be a good start. But it would not make sense for us. Harris is not a good fit on this roster and his contract is set to end when the 2023-2024 season ends. It would make more sense with the Knicks when they have a bigger timeline and with Harris fitting a need for them.

We have Lavine's UFA and Lauri's RFA looming. So we have a set timeline to worry about.

[Rose2Boozer]

The Bulls begin to reimagine their big man rotation.

Bulls: Taj Gibson and 8th Pick
Knicks: Lauri Markkanen, Luke Kornet, Daniel Gafford

[Dez]

The Bulls begin to reimagine their big man rotation.

Bulls: Taj Gibson and 8th Pick
Knicks: Lauri Markkanen, Luke Kornet, Daniel Gafford

Re-imagine? You mean completely cripple, that's beyond awful.

[PlayerUp]

Dallas Mavericks Fan on Reddit Proposed:

#18
#31
Tim Hardaway Jr
Delon Wright

FOR

Otto Porter

[Southpaw]

A rare lateral trade that could help both teams:
LaVine, Porter for Middleton, Bledsoe, and #24

Bulls balance their roster with more defense and “equal opportunity offense”. Coby steps in Zach’s shoes and Lauri gets more touches. Middleton is the best player in this trade #24 offsets the future salary the Bulls take on.

Bledsoe/Coby/Middleton/Lauri/Carter
(Dunn) / Sato / Hutch / Deni (or Toppin or Onyeka) / Young / Gafford / #24

Milwaukee adds scoring punch in LaVine in addition to Porter’s versatility. Zach is a better Robin to Giannis’ Batman than Middleton

I'm torn on this deal for us because ideally you want to pair Middleton with Lavine and Lauri to form a trio but in this trade Lavine is going out.. It's solid value for us imo because Middleton is clearly the best player but we'd be stuck with a low ceiling team and Middleton's contract is huge while Bledsoe's is fairly big as well.

This could turn out great for the Bucks, otoh, only if Otto stays healthy. I'd imagine he can replace Middleton's role on that team fairly well and Zach would be a huge weapon for them offensively.

It's a hard pass for me.

Dallas Mavericks Fan on Reddit Proposed:

#18
#31
Tim Hardaway Jr
Delon Wright

FOR

Otto Porter

I'd do this deal fast. THJ is a decent wing player and Wright is a solid backup. This would shore up our weak wing lineup while getting quality draft picks.

[Andi Obst]

Dallas Mavericks Fan on Reddit Proposed:

#18
#31
Tim Hardaway Jr
Delon Wright

FOR

Otto Porter

Yeah, the Mavs are not doing that. Hardaway has actually been okay for them and gives them at least some desperately needed creation. While I generally like OPJ more and think he would be an extremely good fit in Dallas with his defense/spot up shooting, he isn't the kind of upgrade you would need to add the 2 picks. That would be an insane deal for an expiring, injury-prone guy who doesn't raise your ceiling significantly.

Thinking about it, 18 and 31 is actually perfect for Dallas. They could easily get another ball handler (Riller would be perfect for them) and a wing defender (Bey?) with that.

[sco]

I’m all aboard the Tobias Harris train, especially because we can get additional draft picks. B/c of COVID, teams scouting reports are going to be all over the map, which could allow some guys to fall further than they should.

OPJ for Tobias Harris, #21, #34, & #36.

saw this on https://thesixersense.com/2020/09/05/philadelphia-76ers-eight-possible-trades-fix-offseason/2/

OPJ/Sato for Harris, Thybull, #21

Sign me up for that. Draft Poku. Win championship!?!

[gobullschi]

I’m all aboard the Tobias Harris train, especially because we can get additional draft picks. B/c of COVID, teams scouting reports are going to be all over the map, which could allow some guys to fall further than they should.

OPJ for Tobias Harris, #21, #34, & #36.

I would not take Harris's contract off their hands for so little. Two future first rounders would be a good start. But it would not make sense for us. Harris is not a good fit on this roster and his contract is set to end when the 2023-2024 season ends. It would make more sense with the Knicks when they have a bigger timeline and with Harris fitting a need for them.

We have Lavine's UFA and Lauri's RFA looming. So we have a set timeline to worry about.

Why do you think Tobias Harris isn’t a good fit? I feel the complete opposite.

The Bulls can afford LaVine, Markkanen, & Harris. The rest of the roster will be locked up on rookie scale contracts.

[ChettheJet]

Way deeper and more complex than that. Of course Herro is benefiting as a 3rd option. Of course Lavine would look better picking his spots.

The major issue is this Herro has sky high IQ. Lavine has barely any. Herro is already a good defender and Lavine has improved but is still awful off ball.

Herro will win you more games now and in the future. Give me that rookie contract and I’d play him 35mpg and then use the space to have two max slots.

When a player is the third option or the microwave 6th man they excel partly because they don't have the pressure of being #1. They aren't the focus of the defense, they play a lot of minutes against the other team's bench. But when some coach or GM overreacts and thinks that guy can be OUR #1 guy, trades away the older #1 guy or trades for the microwave it just isn't that same dynamic and it doesn't work, wrong guy to fit into the wrong situation.. Also just because a guy is lights out for 22 minutes a game doesn't mean he can sustain that level of play when he gets thrust into playing 35 minutes a game. For a variety of reason, maybe he is used to going full bore for those 22 minutes but can't understand how to pace himself to play the same way for 35.

You see it in the NFL with receivers. A guy is a great slot receiver for a great offense so some team trades for him because they need a #1 wideout, But the guy can't run the routes at the new position, the QB isn't the as good, doesn't have the connection to the new guy that the other QB built over 5 years.

[wonderboy2]

Hero is nowhere near better than Lavine. For this to be a basketball board it’s hard to believe some of you guys are this bad at player evaluation. Hero is not even close to Lavine in terms of talent, skill, productivity. Hero is definitely not a better defender than Zach. Zach on ball defense is very good. And IQ wise no Zach is not the highest IQ but he’s not dumb like people on this board make him out to be. It’s starting to get laughable with how some of you guys evaluate talent.

[drosereturn]

Way deeper and more complex than that. Of course Herro is benefiting as a 3rd option. Of course Lavine would look better picking his spots.

The major issue is this Herro has sky high IQ. Lavine has barely any. Herro is already a good defender and Lavine has improved but is still awful off ball.

Herro will win you more games now and in the future. Give me that rookie contract and I’d play him 35mpg and then use the space to have two max slots.

When a player is the third option or the microwave 6th man they excel partly because they don't have the pressure of being #1. They aren't the focus of the defense, they play a lot of minutes against the other team's bench. But when some coach or GM overreacts and thinks that guy can be OUR #1 guy, trades away the older #1 guy or trades for the microwave it just isn't that same dynamic and it doesn't work, wrong guy to fit into the wrong situation.. Also just because a guy is lights out for 22 minutes a game doesn't mean he can sustain that level of play when he gets thrust into playing 35 minutes a game. For a variety of reason, maybe he is used to going full bore for those 22 minutes but can't understand how to pace himself to play the same way for 35.

You see it in the NFL with receivers. A guy is a great slot receiver for a great offense so some team trades for him because they need a #1 wideout, But the guy can't run the routes at the new position, the QB isn't the as good, doesn't have the connection to the new guy that the other QB built over 5 years.

Why cant he exactly sustain 35 minutes?
He already played heavy starter minutes in the rs and did well. What I like abt him is that he is a sharpshooter that knows his limitations. Already more playoff proven and didnt disappoint. Cant really even ask him to be a number 1 option when he is Ray allen mold. Its not abt whose better. Its abt who performs well relative to the contract and Herro gives 80% of Lavine at chump change to create 2 max space. Miami wont even trade him for Lavine tho.