How Good is Jimmy Butler?

[prolific passer]

The heat have Butler, Crowder, and Iggy to throw at the likes of Giannis and Lebron.

[Ugly Duckling]

I hope we never have to hear how tanking is the way to go by trading away a top 10 player.

Tankers got their wish and they were objectively wrong

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100%. Some ppl are making the case that if we tanked properly, we could've gotten Doncic, or even Trae. But how do you know? We could've gotten Ayton, JJJ or Bagley as well, none of which would've really moved the needle

[satriales]

I hope we never have to hear how tanking is the way to go by trading away a top 10 player.

Tankers got their wish and they were objectively wrong

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100%. Some ppl are making the case that if we tanked properly, we could've gotten Doncic, or even Trae. But how do you know? We could've gotten Ayton, JJJ or Bagley as well

JJJ > Trae. Trae is one of the top 10 or so offensive players in the league but by most accounts the worst net defensive player in the entire league. 520 out of 520 for players eligible to record RPM last season.

[coldfish]

I have been pro Butler in this thread and elsewhere but I came around to trading him at the end and I stand by that. More so now than even at the time. Jimmy walked away from Philly and demanded out in Minnesota. It was only a matter of time until he was gone and he was going to lose trade value by the day.

Now, is what they got for him the best possible trade? That's a matter for another discussion. Hell, if they had drafted Bam with pick 7 instead of Lauri the trade would look a lot better right now.

Wrong. He made it abundantly clear that he wanted to be Bull. He was traded to the Wolves without being consulted and was an UFA after his stint in Philly, so picked the best situation for him

Jimmy hates losing. Had he stayed under garpax, it was only a matter of time before things got ugly and he left for nothing or pennies on the dollar. The idea that Jimmy could have got the supermax and then been a happy camper winning 35 games a year is pure fantasy.

[coldfish]

The heat have Butler, Crowder, and Iggy to throw at the likes of Giannis and Lebron.

When I look at it, they legitimately could win it all. It would be the icing on the cake of Riley’s genius career.

[prolific passer]

The heat have Butler, Crowder, and Iggy to throw at the likes of Giannis and Lebron.

When I look at it, they legitimately could win it all. It would be the icing on the cake of Riley’s genius career.

Everybody else building these great perimeter duos offensively why the heat have a great perimeter trio defensively that they could all play out there together at times and switch whenever they need be without losing much on that end.

[ThreeMileAllan]

What is ridiculous about people saying Jimmy would have left Chicago eventually is that Jimmy has gone on record over and over again about how loyal he is to the franchise that took a chance on him.

When has Jimmy ever said something he didn't actively mean? He has always said what is on his mind and stuck to it. So when he says he is loyal to Chicago, why would that be any different?


Honestly people just love tanking and they will say anything to rationalize it.

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[prolific passer]

What is ridiculous about people saying Jimmy would have left Chicago eventually is that Jimmy has gone on record over and over again about how loyal he is to the franchise that took a chance on him.

When has Jimmy ever said something he didn't actively mean? He has always said what is on his mind and stuck to it. So when he says he is loyal to Chicago, why would that be any different?


Honestly people just love tanking and they will say anything to rationalize it.

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22 years of rebuilding ftw.

[sonny]

I have been pro Butler in this thread and elsewhere but I came around to trading him at the end and I stand by that. More so now than even at the time. Jimmy walked away from Philly and demanded out in Minnesota. It was only a matter of time until he was gone and he was going to lose trade value by the day.

Now, is what they got for him the best possible trade? That's a matter for another discussion. Hell, if they had drafted Bam with pick 7 instead of Lauri the trade would look a lot better right now.

Eh, we'd be frustrated with Bam because we would've had to rely on Hoiberg and Boylen to develop him.

Boylen won't even let WCJ take wide open mid range jumpers, no way he's letting the offense go through Bam at times like Spo has.

[weneeda2guard]

[quote="JordansBulls"]We should have kept him with Wade and Rondo together[/quote]
No we should have fired hoiberg , got rid of garpax fell back that one year then go into free agency with Jimmy on board

BTW I was reminded that before kawhi talked to Paul george to join him he talked to Jimmy butler 1st. Imagine being a team with max cap space and jimmy at the table. Could have persuaded kawhi to possibly come to Chicago.

[Ugly Duckling]

I have been pro Butler in this thread and elsewhere but I came around to trading him at the end and I stand by that. More so now than even at the time. Jimmy walked away from Philly and demanded out in Minnesota. It was only a matter of time until he was gone and he was going to lose trade value by the day.

Now, is what they got for him the best possible trade? That's a matter for another discussion. Hell, if they had drafted Bam with pick 7 instead of Lauri the trade would look a lot better right now.

Wrong. He made it abundantly clear that he wanted to be Bull. He was traded to the Wolves without being consulted and was an UFA after his stint in Philly, so picked the best situation for him

Jimmy hates losing. Had he stayed under garpax, it was only a matter of time before things got ugly and he left for nothing or pennies on the dollar. The idea that Jimmy could have got the supermax and then been a happy camper winning 35 games a year is pure fantasy.

The Bulls took a chance on him and drafted him in the first rd when teams were questioning his viability as a NBA player. They developed him and he thrived here. He had a sense of loyalty to Chicago. The FO and fan base. Yes, he would've demanded hard work, but lead by example in that regard. It would've been no different than Kobe. It's unfair and presumptuous to assume he would've demanded a trade, provided management was at least trying to win. Remember, Jimmy's parents abandoned him as a kid. He values trust and Gar/Pax took it for granted

[Kurt Heimlich]

How wild is it we had 23yo MVP Drose, 22YO Jimmy and 26YO Jo going into the 2012 playoffs as the 1st overall seed finishing 4 games over the 2nd place Heat. Unreal the butterfly effect that one evening in April has had for the next 8 years.

[dice]

I have been pro Butler in this thread and elsewhere but I came around to trading him at the end and I stand by that. More so now than even at the time. Jimmy walked away from Philly and demanded out in Minnesota. It was only a matter of time until he was gone and he was going to lose trade value by the day.

Now, is what they got for him the best possible trade? That's a matter for another discussion. Hell, if they had drafted Bam with pick 7 instead of Lauri the trade would look a lot better right now.

To be fair, Jimmy's leaving was financially motivated. Glen Taylor chose to max Wiggins instead of paying Jimmy. Had they given him an extenstion he'd have been there. The 76ers didn't bring the 5 year max. They chose to give Harris the 5 year max and not Jimmy. He is making the most money he can in Miami with no state income tax. I feel if the Bulls gave Jimmy the 5 year max, he'd have been a Bull. And i couldn't see him leaving here if we kept Thibs for him. He's a guy that wanted to be the face of the franchise and be part of a hard working team.

it was more than a money thing in philly. jimmy has said as much. and there are conflicting reports on whether he was offered the max

also, it wasn't necessarily an either/or w/ wiggins in minnesota

[TheStig]

I have been pro Butler in this thread and elsewhere but I came around to trading him at the end and I stand by that. More so now than even at the time. Jimmy walked away from Philly and demanded out in Minnesota. It was only a matter of time until he was gone and he was going to lose trade value by the day.

Now, is what they got for him the best possible trade? That's a matter for another discussion. Hell, if they had drafted Bam with pick 7 instead of Lauri the trade would look a lot better right now.

To be fair, Jimmy's leaving was financially motivated. Glen Taylor chose to max Wiggins instead of paying Jimmy. Had they given him an extenstion he'd have been there. The 76ers didn't bring the 5 year max. They chose to give Harris the 5 year max and not Jimmy. He is making the most money he can in Miami with no state income tax. I feel if the Bulls gave Jimmy the 5 year max, he'd have been a Bull. And i couldn't see him leaving here if we kept Thibs for him. He's a guy that wanted to be the face of the franchise and be part of a hard working team.

it was more than a money thing in philly. jimmy has said as much. and there are conflicting reports on whether he was offered the max

also, it wasn't necessarily an either/or w/ wiggins in minnesota

Wow conflicting reports. How convincing. They didn't lay the 5 year max in front of him on day 1.

It certainly wasn't but Jimmy didn't get paid there and Wiggins did.

[coldfish]

Wrong. He made it abundantly clear that he wanted to be Bull. He was traded to the Wolves without being consulted and was an UFA after his stint in Philly, so picked the best situation for him

Jimmy hates losing. Had he stayed under garpax, it was only a matter of time before things got ugly and he left for nothing or pennies on the dollar. The idea that Jimmy could have got the supermax and then been a happy camper winning 35 games a year is pure fantasy.

The Bulls took a chance on him and drafted him in the first rd when teams were questioning his viability as a NBA player. They developed him and he thrived here. He had a sense of loyalty to Chicago. The FO and fan base. Yes, he would've demanded hard work, but lead by example in that regard. It would've been no different than Kobe. It's unfair and presumptuous to assume he would've demanded a trade, provided management was at least trying to win. Remember, Jimmy's parents abandoned him as a kid. He values trust and Gar/Pax took it for granted

Kobe demanded out of LA. Ironically, Pax is a good bit of the reason that didn't happen.

Regardless, its presumptuous of you to assume that GarPax would have started to perform adequately or that Butler would tolerated the lack of performance indefinitely.

[prolific passer]

How wild is it we had 23yo MVP Drose, 22YO Jimmy and 26YO Jo going into the 2012 playoffs as the 1st overall seed finishing 4 games over the 2nd place Heat. Unreal the butterfly effect that one evening in April has had for the next 8 years.

Deng was only 26 also. Imagine Butler and Deng out there defensively together.

[RoseTheFuture22]

Garpaxdorf lowballed him on the rookie extension talks and Jimmy never really got over it. The bulls knew they were going to need to give him a supermax basically on the next deal but they didn't see him as worth it so they traded him before he was a disgruntled 1 year rental.

I do think if he stayed here though he would have been able to recruit a 2nd guy because of the team USA connections and for the most part I think other stars like him(with a few younger exceptions like KAT and Ben Simmons). It seemed Jimmy mostly wanted to be here but Garpax just didn't think he was worth building around or could ever be a number one guy.

The thing that bothered me the most about how his reputation started to shift is that when Jimmy/Wade/Rondo ripped the younger guys for whining about minutes/role on the team were absolutely right to do so!! None of those guys were much good but the front office babied them and treated them like they would be future stars. We were talking about Jerian Grant, Portis, Niko, Zipser, Payne, MCW, McDermott, all of which are either fringe rotation guys or out of the league now.

[drosereturn]

What is ridiculous about people saying Jimmy would have left Chicago eventually is that Jimmy has gone on record over and over again about how loyal he is to the franchise that took a chance on him.

When has Jimmy ever said something he didn't actively mean? He has always said what is on his mind and stuck to it. So when he says he is loyal to Chicago, why would that be any different?


Honestly people just love tanking and they will say anything to rationalize it.

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nope. he would have followed his old dad Wade to Miami anyway and Garpax wouldnt have been fired. rather trade jimmy for new fo.

[dice]

To be fair, Jimmy's leaving was financially motivated. Glen Taylor chose to max Wiggins instead of paying Jimmy. Had they given him an extenstion he'd have been there. The 76ers didn't bring the 5 year max. They chose to give Harris the 5 year max and not Jimmy. He is making the most money he can in Miami with no state income tax. I feel if the Bulls gave Jimmy the 5 year max, he'd have been a Bull. And i couldn't see him leaving here if we kept Thibs for him. He's a guy that wanted to be the face of the franchise and be part of a hard working team.

it was more than a money thing in philly. jimmy has said as much. and there are conflicting reports on whether he was offered the max

also, it wasn't necessarily an either/or w/ wiggins in minnesota

Wow conflicting reports. How convincing.

i'm not trying to convince you of anything, fella. i'm saying that we don't know that they didn't offer him the max, which is what YOU claimed

Jimmy didn't get paid there and Wiggins did.

jimmy didn't want to get paid in minny. that much is pretty obvious. thibs loves jimmy and traded for him knowing that the opportunity was there because the bulls DIDN'T want to max him out. it's not like jimmy was being brought in to a contender as a win-now rental or something. he was brought in as a long-term investment

the wolves traded for jimmy and then maxed out wiggins later that same offseason. the idea that they didn't think ahead by mere months and chose wiggins over jimmy before jimmy even played a game for them is pretty far-fetched

[dice]

Jimmy hates losing. Had he stayed under garpax, it was only a matter of time before things got ugly and he left for nothing or pennies on the dollar. The idea that Jimmy could have got the supermax and then been a happy camper winning 35 games a year is pure fantasy.

The Bulls took a chance on him and drafted him in the first rd when teams were questioning his viability as a NBA player. They developed him and he thrived here. He had a sense of loyalty to Chicago. The FO and fan base. Yes, he would've demanded hard work, but lead by example in that regard. It would've been no different than Kobe. It's unfair and presumptuous to assume he would've demanded a trade, provided management was at least trying to win. Remember, Jimmy's parents abandoned him as a kid. He values trust and Gar/Pax took it for granted

Kobe demanded out of LA. Ironically, Pax is a good bit of the reason that didn't happen.

Regardless, its presumptuous of you to assume that GarPax would have started to perform adequately or that Butler would tolerated the lack of performance indefinitely.

it's more presumptuous to assume that the team would have become a loser with jimmy butler here. he wasn't even hinting at leaving when the team was at .500. now, would he have stuck around for his max 5 year deal and then forced his way out after another year or 2 of mediocrity? certainly possible

as for kobe, from everything i've read pax was willing to give the lakers what they wanted (deng), but kobe wanted to play with deng